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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2017 17:51:31 GMT
John, I can only say I think you're spot on ...selfishly  But, does it matter what these same old same old parties promise? We all know it'll not materialise anyway In my opinion It's a race to the bottom for the ordinary people of this world I'm afraid. |
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Post by partickpotter on May 10, 2017 19:54:01 GMT
Are you only taxing the Tory rich? What about rich labour people? There quite a few of them. Good old Len McCluskey, for example, pulls in a healthy six figure salary (plus benefits). Oh - and are you familiar with the Laffer Curve? It's a useful idea to bear in mind when considering raising increased revenue through higher taxation. What are your thoughts about the outlook North of the border, Patrick? It's going to be interesting in Scotland! Everything is dominated by the question of indyref2. For the SNP, who for the first time in years seem to be losing ground, the number of seats won or (more likely) lost isn't the big concern. It's all about national vote share. Losing ground on the 50% they had in 2015 will see their argument for indyref2 diminish. Fall below 40% and it is holed. I expect it to be 30-35%. Meaning they will still dominate in terms of seats won, but it will be a big disappointment for them. The Tories are hoping, with justification, for big things. 10-15 seats is being spoken about. Including some big scalps. Taking Alex Salmond's seat is a real possibility. Helped today by a balls up by Sturgeon on post Brexit fishing policy. Labour are in disarray, but they still think they can pick up a seat or two in the central belt. How the mighty have fallen. The party that dominated Scottish politics for over 40 years best hopes is less than a handful of seats. Pathetic. The LibDems, likewise, hope to unseat the SNP in a few seats. But in their best scenario they remain peripheral. The Greens have, amazingly, decided to throw in the towel and fight just 3 seats so they don't split the Indy vote. Pathetic. |
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Post by nicholasjalcock on May 10, 2017 19:55:01 GMT
It's going to be interesting in Scotland! Everything is dominated by the question of indyref2. For the SNP, who for the first time in years seem to be losing ground, the number of seats won or (more likely) lost isn't the big concern. It's all about national vote share. Losing ground on the 50% they had in 2015 will see their argument for indyref2 diminish. Fall below 40% and it is holed. I expect it to be 30-35%. Meaning they will still dominate in terms of seats won, but it will be a big disappointment for them. The Tories are hoping, with justification, for big things. 10-15 seats is being spoken about. Including some big scalps. Taking Alex Salmond's seat is a real possibility. Helped today by a balls up by Sturgeon on post Brexit fishing policy. Labour are in disarray, but they still think they can pick up a seat or two in the central belt. How the mighty have fallen. The party that dominated Scottish politics for over 40 years best hopes is less than a handful of seats. Pathetic. The LibDems, likewise, hope to unseat the SNP in a few seats. But in their best scenario they remain peripheral. The Greens have, amazingly, decided to throw in the towel and fight just 3 seats so they don't split the Indy vote. Pathetic. The Tories might pick up a Labour seat but I suspect their gains will be ca. 8 seats in total. The Tories look fine until you see them close up and realise what they stand for! |
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Post by partickpotter on May 10, 2017 20:02:27 GMT
It's going to be interesting in Scotland! Everything is dominated by the question of indyref2. For the SNP, who for the first time in years seem to be losing ground, the number of seats won or (more likely) lost isn't the big concern. It's all about national vote share. Losing ground on the 50% they had in 2015 will see their argument for indyref2 diminish. Fall below 40% and it is holed. I expect it to be 30-35%. Meaning they will still dominate in terms of seats won, but it will be a big disappointment for them. The Tories are hoping, with justification, for big things. 10-15 seats is being spoken about. Including some big scalps. Taking Alex Salmond's seat is a real possibility. Helped today by a balls up by Sturgeon on post Brexit fishing policy. Labour are in disarray, but they still think they can pick up a seat or two in the central belt. How the mighty have fallen. The party that dominated Scottish politics for over 40 years best hopes is less than a handful of seats. Pathetic. The LibDems, likewise, hope to unseat the SNP in a few seats. But in their best scenario they remain peripheral. The Greens have, amazingly, decided to throw in the towel and fight just 3 seats so they don't split the Indy vote. Pathetic. The Tories might pick up a Labour seat but I suspect their gains will be ca. 8 seats in total. The Tories look fine until you see them close up and realise what they stand for! In Scotland, at the current time, they stand as the anti-indyref2 party. Single issue stuff for sure. But it's working. Well, from a vote winning perspective. From a broader perspective, the polarisation of Scottish politics is not good news IMO. It means real stuff, like education, health, the economy etc have become side issues relatively and are suffering accordingly. |
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Post by salopstick on May 10, 2017 21:28:26 GMT
"A draft of Labour's general election manifesto has been leaked, including plans to nationalise the energy industry and scrap tuition fees.
The BBC has seen a copy of the document, which has not yet been formally signed off, with the Mirror and the Daily Telegraph also reporting details.
These include nationalising railways, bus firms and the Royal Mail and renewing the Trident weapons system.
Labour would not comment on leaks."
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Post by Billy the kid on May 10, 2017 21:32:57 GMT
"A draft of Labour's general election manifesto has been leaked, including plans to nationalise the energy industry and scrap tuition fees. The BBC has seen a copy of the document, which has not yet been formally signed off, with the Mirror and the Daily Telegraph also reporting details. These include nationalising railways, bus firms and the Royal Mail and renewing the Trident weapons system. Labour would not comment on leaks." Having read through the telegraph article, it's like they are purposely trying to sabotage their campaign. Capping wages for example, will drive managerial talent out of the country,giving the unions a shit load of power.... nationalising anything and everything ... |
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Post by followyoudown on May 10, 2017 22:02:44 GMT
"A draft of Labour's general election manifesto has been leaked, including plans to nationalise the energy industry and scrap tuition fees. The BBC has seen a copy of the document, which has not yet been formally signed off, with the Mirror and the Daily Telegraph also reporting details. These include nationalising railways, bus firms and the Royal Mail and renewing the Trident weapons system. Labour would not comment on leaks." I've read the manifesto, I can see the Tories getting mid 50%s of the vote now, Labour have stopped even pretending they have any interest in governing, I can see them taking 20 years to come back from this. |
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Post by salopstick on May 10, 2017 22:04:42 GMT
"A draft of Labour's general election manifesto has been leaked, including plans to nationalise the energy industry and scrap tuition fees. The BBC has seen a copy of the document, which has not yet been formally signed off, with the Mirror and the Daily Telegraph also reporting details. These include nationalising railways, bus firms and the Royal Mail and renewing the Trident weapons system. Labour would not comment on leaks." I've read the manifesto, I can see the Tories getting mid 50%s of the vote now, Labour have stopped even pretending they have any interest in governing, I can see them taking 20 years to come back from this. I bet Gerald Kaufman is having a smile up there |
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Post by followyoudown on May 10, 2017 22:17:09 GMT
I've read the manifesto, I can see the Tories getting mid 50%s of the vote now, Labour have stopped even pretending they have any interest in governing, I can see them taking 20 years to come back from this. I bet Gerald Kaufman is having a smile up there I bet he is, also rumours the local party in Liverpool may put up their own candidate such is the unhappiness with Len McCluskys aide being selected, just need Deggsy Hatton to make an appearance for an 1980s full house. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 10, 2017 22:43:51 GMT
Labour policies are actually polling well. That's why chicken shit May doesn't want to discuss policy just personality and Brexit.
What's the Tory Party manifesto actually going to consist of? We haven't got a beard?
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Post by essexstokey on May 10, 2017 22:51:10 GMT
Labour policies are actually polling well. That's why chicken shit May doesn't want to discuss policy just personality and Brexit. What's the Tory Party manifesto actually going to consist of? We haven't got a beard? Labour party ones they attacked from the last election The Tories the party of the Rich for the rich by the ritch!! |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2017 22:56:26 GMT
Labour policies are actually polling well. That's why chicken shit May doesn't want to discuss policy just personality and Brexit. What's the Tory Party manifesto actually going to consist of? We haven't got a beard? Labour party ones they attacked from the last election The Tories the party of the Rich for the rich by the ritch!! ritch ?  |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 11, 2017 5:27:46 GMT
Has any party said how they're going to save us billions per year by scrapping the foreign aid budget yet? All that ever does is end up in the wrong hands... Although it is one of those lovely "look at me, aren't I so nice & caring" tools, so nodoubt all the parties want to increase it instead. UKIP. Nutty promising that since he was running for Stoke Central. All costed and the money goes directly to the NHS. I heard him say it myself. It wasn't written on the side of a bus :-). Although the Conservative's have been reviewing the foreign aid beneficiaries since May became Leader. Some payments have already been stopped. |
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Post by mtrstudent on May 11, 2017 5:30:04 GMT
I think that the interest rates are 3% above base...unbelievable in today's climate and many people were unaware of this, and had little choice anyway. I think that it is utterly immoral to inflict lifelong debt onto the younger generation. Where else are you going to find the £30 billion for a pension triple lock? Almost every decision has been fuck the young and make us pay for soaring pension and care costs. EDIT: actually, I'm ok with paying my student loan. It's a privilege to go to one of our amazing universities and we've been hard up for money. But to see so much extra cash go to pensioners, to find out that we're now basically subsidising oil companies while the last generation took £100+ bn in royalties and left us nothing, and to see no government do anything to fix the housing crisis really gets on my tits. |
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Post by salopstick on May 11, 2017 5:42:53 GMT
Labour policies are actually polling well.   Wait til they read the manifesto |
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Post by mtrstudent on May 11, 2017 5:50:19 GMT
Labour policies are actually polling well. Wait til they read the manifesto How many people do you know that actually do that? ;D |
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Post by followyoudown on May 11, 2017 6:03:37 GMT
Labour policies are actually polling well. Wait til they read the manifesto MoMo is right it does poll well who is going to say they don't want well free everything, however when it comes to actually voting for him............... We won't leave the EU without a deal is a particularly great negotiating stance...... |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 11, 2017 6:39:18 GMT
I think that the interest rates are 3% above base...unbelievable in today's climate and many people were unaware of this, and had little choice anyway. I think that it is utterly immoral to inflict lifelong debt onto the younger generation. Where else are you going to find the £30 billion for a pension triple lock? Almost every decision has been fuck the young and make us pay for soaring pension and care costs. EDIT: actually, I'm ok with paying my student loan. It's a privilege to go to one of our amazing universities and we've been hard up for money. But to see so much extra cash go to pensioners, to find out that we're now basically subsidising oil companies while the last generation took £100+ bn in royalties and left us nothing, and to see no government do anything to fix the housing crisis really gets on my tits. I agree with your sentiments almost entirely.....i just don't think that those pensioners who have worked hard and paid into the system actually get a good deal either. But in respect of the young we have simply spent all we can, irrespective of the future and let the future generations sort it out ( that goes for culture too by the way).....I believe that the lack of hope for the future and fear about not getting jobs, being constantly assessed instead of being genuinely educated and student debt has undermined the young's joy de vivre, resilience and created the mental health problems that we are now trying to deal with through tablets and counselling....it would be better to look at the causes of mental health problems. |
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Post by salopstick on May 11, 2017 6:39:51 GMT
Wait til they read the manifesto MoMo is right it does poll well who is going to say they don't want well free everything, however when it comes to actually voting for him............... We won't leave the EU without a deal is a particularly great negotiating stance...... Or paying for it |
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Post by essexstokey on May 11, 2017 6:43:04 GMT
Wait til they read the manifesto MoMo is right it does poll well who is going to say they don't want well free everything, however when it comes to actually voting for him............... We won't leave the EU without a deal is a particularly great negotiating stance...... Where as leaving the EU with a deal that would bankrupt Britain or make us worse off is so much better !! If/when we leave we need to know all the facts, all the deals, no lies and even a free vote in parliament or a second referendum that is democracy not lying to the electorate !! |
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Post by crapslinger on May 11, 2017 7:15:15 GMT
MoMo is right it does poll well who is going to say they don't want well free everything, however when it comes to actually voting for him............... We won't leave the EU without a deal is a particularly great negotiating stance...... Where as leaving the EU with a deal that would bankrupt Britain or make us worse off is so much better !! If/when we leave we need to know all the facts, all the deals, no lies and even a free vote in parliament or a second referendum that is democracy not lying to the electorate !! Free vote, second referendum blah blah blah  |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 11, 2017 8:07:36 GMT
Someone should tell Corbo and Farron that the General Election is not like pointless. It's the one with the most votes that wins....
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 11, 2017 8:12:07 GMT
Wait til they read the manifesto How many people do you know that actually do that? ;D Anyone reading any newspaper today Paradoxically I think it's the best way for Jezza to get his policies out there. As you say no bugger reads the official manifesto's anyway. |
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 8:32:53 GMT
MoMo is right it does poll well who is going to say they don't want well free everything, however when it comes to actually voting for him............... We won't leave the EU without a deal is a particularly great negotiating stance...... Where as leaving the EU with a deal that would bankrupt Britain or make us worse off is so much better !! If/when we leave we need to know all the facts, all the deals, no lies and even a free vote in parliament or a second referendum that is democracy not lying to the electorate !! |
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Post by spitthedog on May 11, 2017 8:45:35 GMT
I don't consider any of Labour's policies left wing at all. Its just the way they are presented.
When Miliband promised to cap energy prices he was written off as Red Ed, the Tories said at the the time this would take us back to the dark days of the 70s and Cameron described the policy as "loony Marxism"
Now May is doing the same thing its described as an act of progressive competition and will save the average family £100!
Same policy!
Its just brainwashing.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 8:52:36 GMT
I don't consider any of Labour's policies left wing at all. Its just the way they are presented. When Miliband promised to cap energy prices he was written off as Red Ed, the Tories said at the the time this would take us back to the dark days of the 70s and Cameron described the policy as "loony Marxism" Now May is doing the same thing its described as an act of progressive competition and will save the average family £100! Same policy! Its just brainwashing. What is your interpretation of left wing then ? |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 11, 2017 8:59:59 GMT
Hang on!! Word is that this was a deliberate leak from Labour HQ. Only a 'draft'...... so test the water first..... if it's popular then all good.... if not then tweak it for official release......  Makes the launch an 'exclusive' splash. A whole week before anything from the Conservatives. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 11, 2017 9:20:32 GMT
Sneaky sneaky........
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 11, 2017 9:29:41 GMT
Headline in The Times Red Box morning feature...... Good Morning.
For an entire manifesto to leak is quite something.
It must have been done by someone who doesn't like Jeremy Corbyn.
I've narrowed it down to 30 million people. |
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Post by salopstick on May 11, 2017 9:35:08 GMT
Someone should tell Corbo and Farron that the General Election is not like pointless. It's the one with the most votes that wins.... That's a vote winner in working class Britain |
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