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Post by sonichuth on Mar 9, 2017 14:14:20 GMT
Piece here from Football365. Raises a lot of interesting points even if I don't agree with 100% of it. A bit of a mood-change from the euphoria of last night. I hope last night (and Boro) are the signs of things to come and something from which to kick on and improve. www.football365.com/news/stoke-stuck-in-the-middle-with-mark-hughes |
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Mar 9, 2017 14:15:17 GMT
I always think that too, but then we start playing shit and dropping points. Then a new season comes around and it takes us around 5 games to start getting draws.
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Post by djduncanjames on Mar 9, 2017 14:31:47 GMT
Thanks for sharing, I thought that was written well for a mainstream piece on us, researched well also. I'm so used to reading lazy, cliche stuff about us
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Post by alster on Mar 9, 2017 14:55:58 GMT
An honest informed unbiased article that sees things from most of our own angles. The time is fast approaching where he has no choice but move on from the old heads. Can he forge an identity of his own team without the safety blanket of Pulis players and tactics. He really has a job on his hands to satisfy all sectors of the Stoke support some just don't like him because he isn't Tony Pulis. Some didn't like him at all but have warmed to him as he's become more conservative and pragmatic whilst others liked him but are changing their minds for exactly that reason. Tony Pulis divided our supporter base like never before in my living memory and to be fair it really hasn't pulled together much at all in the 3 to 4 years since his departure. I'm not sure when or if ever we'll see a manager come in and unite the fans by being universally popular with them as Lou Macari did during his first spell in charge of the club.
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Mar 9, 2017 15:16:20 GMT
Super bit of writing.
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Post by Gods on Mar 9, 2017 15:27:39 GMT
It's not my place to serve as sparky's spin doctor but 'stuck' is an emotive adjective to use to describe what amounts to the clubs first 3 consecutive top flight/top half finishes in its long history.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Mar 9, 2017 15:35:15 GMT
Come on then... someone on here wrote that.
It overplays the discontent.
"Hughes Out is a topic trending on messageboards", fails to point out that it was hardly a universal call, rather a topic for discussion.
He used 'Delilah' as a clumsy journalistic device, made his conclusion fit the last line.
A trashy bit of tittle tattle. {That's ok. It is what it is.}
An inevitable superficial look at stuff.
Agree with his narrative of the seasons. {but fails to mention injuries, the Academy etc}.
He's spent a bit of time on here and magnified the mood.
But sort of says he deserves another season.
A kind of non-conclusion in the crazy world of football management.
HHW in my view.
Shitty timing too.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 9, 2017 15:37:24 GMT
A few random niggles (although we do seem to be going around in circles)..........
"Stuck" on the verge of doing something we haven't managed in our entire history?
Is banging up against your glass ceiling every single year a failure?
BMI "useful but erratic"?
Questions Shawcross' form with no mention of his injury? (he carried on his fabulous Pulis form well into Hughes' tenure)
Is a managerial record of 6th, 7th, 8th, 4 9ths and a 10th with small clubs anything but a triumph, rather than the "epitome of average"?
Is a poor record v the top 10 a massive disappointment when every club in our mini-league is similarly poor - Stoke 6 points, Southampton 6, West Ham 7, WBA 8 (4 v us)
No reference to us losing our best player, N'Zonzi, who was the fulcrum of the team.
No reference to Bojan's injury from which he never really recovered.
"Diouf 'on the verge of stardom'" Really?
"Wollscheid just below top-class to completely useless" Double really?
Making out Hughes is an idiot for playing Shaq where he's played his entire club career.
Would any of this anti-Hughes narrative even have been a debating point 10/15 years ago? Just seems that things have really changed - and aren't entirely sure why. As if the golden periods at the end of his first season, end of his second and Christmas of hs third can ever be the norm for a club like Stoke?
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Post by Kjones9 on Mar 9, 2017 15:50:18 GMT
Most definitely not an unbiased assessment.
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Post by foxysgloves on Mar 9, 2017 15:52:47 GMT
It's not my place to serve as sparky's spin doctor but 'stuck' is an emotive adjective to use to describe what amounts to the clubs first 3 consecutive top flight/top half finishes in its long history. Stuck in the middle of the top flight which seemed as distant as Timbuktu a short time ago as we spent our weekends in Rochdale, Bury, Southend...... |
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Post by foxysgloves on Mar 9, 2017 15:53:23 GMT
A few random niggles (although we do seem to be going around in circles).......... "Stuck" on the verge of doing something we haven't managed in our entire history? Is banging up against your glass ceiling every single year a failure? BMI "useful but erratic"? Questions Shawcross' form with no mention of his injury? (he carried on his fabulous Pulis form well into Hughes' tenure) Is a managerial record of 6th, 7th, 8th, 4 9ths and a 10th with small clubs anything but a triumph, rather than the "epitome of average"? Is a poor record v the top 10 a massive disappointment when every club in our mini-league is similarly poor - Stoke 6 points, Southampton 6, West Ham 7, WBA 8 (4 v us) No reference to us losing our best player, N'Zonzi, who was the fulcrum of the team. No reference to Bojan's injury from which he never really recovered. "Diouf 'on the verge of stardom'" Really? "Wollscheid just below top-class to completely useless" Double really? Making out Hughes is an idiot for playing Shaq where he's played his entire club career. Would any of this anti-Hughes narrative even have been a debating point 10/15 years ago? Just seems that things have really changed - and aren't entirely sure why. As if the golden periods at the end of his first season, end of his second and Christmas of hs third can ever be the norm for a club like Stoke? In short....It's a pile of arse. |
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Post by Foster on Mar 9, 2017 16:00:44 GMT
I like the reservoir dogs style thread title
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Post by The Stubborn Optimist on Mar 9, 2017 16:06:54 GMT
Given how many managers struggle to cope with the Premier League, in many cases they fail abysmally, I think MH's record is actually pretty impressive. One could argue possibly more so when you consider his record includes Fulham, Stoke and Blackburn all finishing in respectable positions consistently.
In comparison to many who've tried and failed I'd suggest MH is pretty damn good at what he does.
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Post by Do it for dobing on Mar 9, 2017 16:09:05 GMT
total nonsense,we are at the moment enjoying playing football at the highest level since the early 70s.
Even back then there were fans who liked a good moan it will always be
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 9, 2017 16:09:41 GMT
A few random niggles (although we do seem to be going around in circles).......... "Stuck" on the verge of doing something we haven't managed in our entire history? Is banging up against your glass ceiling every single year a failure? BMI "useful but erratic"? Questions Shawcross' form with no mention of his injury? (he carried on his fabulous Pulis form well into Hughes' tenure) Is a managerial record of 6th, 7th, 8th, 4 9ths and a 10th with small clubs anything but a triumph, rather than the "epitome of average"? Is a poor record v the top 10 a massive disappointment when every club in our mini-league is similarly poor - Stoke 6 points, Southampton 6, West Ham 7, WBA 8 (4 v us) No reference to us losing our best player, N'Zonzi, who was the fulcrum of the team. No reference to Bojan's injury from which he never really recovered. "Diouf 'on the verge of stardom'" Really? "Wollscheid just below top-class to completely useless" Double really? Making out Hughes is an idiot for playing Shaq where he's played his entire club career. Would any of this anti-Hughes narrative even have been a debating point 10/15 years ago? Just seems that things have really changed - and aren't entirely sure why. As if the golden periods at the end of his first season, end of his second and Christmas of hs third can ever be the norm for a club like Stoke? In short....It's a pile of arse. A load of contrived codswollop. Should write for NME not a football website. |
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Post by alster on Mar 9, 2017 16:21:42 GMT
Most definitely not an unbiased assessment. So unless he buries his head in the sand and says everything's rosy and everyone's happy, you're going to claim its biased basically |
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 9, 2017 16:40:25 GMT
Thanks for the OP, which at times read like I was reading many Oatcake posts.
I firmly believed we have progressed since TPs years and could tolerate a lot more 9th places before I get tired of supporting.
I believe climbing the league every season, or breaking into top 6, are unrealistic. Nevertheless I am an eternal optimist and still hope we can get to 7th! My outlook is we are stuck in the top half with Hughes, not the middle.
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Post by Kjones9 on Mar 9, 2017 16:53:23 GMT
Most definitely not an unbiased assessment. So unless he buries his head in the sand and says everything's rosy and everyone's happy, you're going to claim its biased basically No but it's not an unbiased assessment. He knows too much like stated above. |
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Post by alster on Mar 9, 2017 16:55:35 GMT
Thanks for the OP, which at times read like I was reading many Oatcake posts. I firmly believed we have progressed since TPs years and could tolerate a lot more 9th places before I get tired of supporting. I believe climbing the league every season, or breaking into top 6, are unrealistic. Nevertheless I am an eternal optimist and still hope we can get to 7th! My outlook is we are stuck in the top half with Hughes, not the middle. It reads like many oatcake posts because its an opinion shared by quite a few people. Its balanced with all the positives and reasons why any dissatisfaction could be puzzling to a casual observer. I think its a fair piece I'm not sure why those who are satisfied feel the need to pretend any dissatisfaction simply doesn't exist or is limited to a slack handful of lunatics on a message board. Smacks of some sort of insecurity. |
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Post by alster on Mar 9, 2017 16:57:13 GMT
So unless he buries his head in the sand and says everything's rosy and everyone's happy, you're going to claim its biased basically No but it's not an unbiased assessment. He knows too much like stated above. ? You're complaining the author is too informed. Are you for real? |
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Post by LDE76 on Mar 9, 2017 17:01:08 GMT
High highs and low lows? We are talking about Mark Hughes and not Alan Pardew, aren't we?
We're Stoke City. We're pretty much going to be stuck around the middle under any manager, unless Coates has some kind of breakdown and appoints Tim Sherwood or Owen Coyle.
It's almost like the author thought of a snappy title and created an article around it.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 9, 2017 17:10:09 GMT
High highs and low lows? We are talking about Mark Hughes and not Alan Pardew, aren't we? We're Stoke City. We're pretty much going to be stuck around the middle under any manager, unless Coates has some kind of breakdown and appoints Tim Sherwood or Owen Coyle. It's almost like the author thought of a snappy title and created an article around it. As I said a load of contrived codswollop. |
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Post by alster on Mar 9, 2017 17:12:32 GMT
High highs and low lows? We are talking about Mark Hughes and not Alan Pardew, aren't we? We're Stoke City. We're pretty much going to be stuck around the middle under any manager, unless Coates has some kind of breakdown and appoints Tim Sherwood or Owen Coyle. It's almost like the author thought of a snappy title and created an article around it. Perhaps he's not talking about the league table there are other things in the world of football. Hughes set us out on a footballing journey and seems to have turned back half way maybe something like that. |
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Post by robwahlmann on Mar 9, 2017 17:13:07 GMT
I've no trouble about being stuck in the middle! Things could be far worse than this! A good cup run now and then and I won't ask for more!  |
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Post by Kjones9 on Mar 9, 2017 17:14:55 GMT
No but it's not an unbiased assessment. He knows too much like stated above. ? You're complaining the author is too informed. Are you for real? No, you're saying that it's an unbiased opinion, it's clearly not. It's like it's written by someone off here ie biased. Not hard is it? |
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Mar 9, 2017 17:24:12 GMT
High highs and low lows? We are talking about Mark Hughes and not Alan Pardew, aren't we? We're Stoke City. We're pretty much going to be stuck around the middle under any manager, unless Coates has some kind of breakdown and appoints Tim Sherwood or Owen Coyle. It's almost like the author thought of a snappy title and created an article around it. That's just not true. |
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Post by alster on Mar 9, 2017 17:24:47 GMT
? You're complaining the author is too informed. Are you for real? No, you're saying that it's an unbiased opinion, it's clearly not. It's like it's written by someone off here ie biased. Not hard is it? Why does being off here or having read lots of stuff on here make it a biased article. That suggests anyone who researches a topic is biased. Unbiased tends to suggest he's taken in the spectrum of opinions and wrote about it but you'd only be satisfied if he wrote what you want and ignored any dissenting opinions. Now that would be biased. |
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Post by LDE76 on Mar 9, 2017 17:34:15 GMT
High highs and low lows? We are talking about Mark Hughes and not Alan Pardew, aren't we? We're Stoke City. We're pretty much going to be stuck around the middle under any manager, unless Coates has some kind of breakdown and appoints Tim Sherwood or Owen Coyle. It's almost like the author thought of a snappy title and created an article around it. That's just not true. Really? Bearing in mind that even eighth place is "around the middle", and I included the phrase "pretty much"? There could be the odd season where everything clicks and we finish a bit higher, but realistically, we're never going to be, say, a regular top-six team. |
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Mar 9, 2017 17:37:09 GMT
Really? Bearing in mind that even eighth place is "around the middle", and I included the phrase "pretty much"? There could be the odd season where everything clicks and we finish a bit higher, but realistically, we're never going to be, say, a regular top-six team. If we bring in the right manager that brings in the right players we can finish anywhere. There is nothing set in stone that we are a mid table club and always will be, I just don't buy into that. |
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 9, 2017 18:02:18 GMT
Thanks for the OP, which at times read like I was reading many Oatcake posts. I firmly believed we have progressed since TPs years and could tolerate a lot more 9th places before I get tired of supporting. I believe climbing the league every season, or breaking into top 6, are unrealistic. Nevertheless I am an eternal optimist and still hope we can get to 7th! My outlook is we are stuck in the top half with Hughes, not the middle. It reads like many oatcake posts because its an opinion shared by quite a few people. Its balanced with all the positives and reasons why any dissatisfaction could be puzzling to a casual observer. I think its a fair piece I'm not sure why those who are satisfied feel the need to pretend any dissatisfaction simply doesn't exist or is limited to a slack handful of lunatics on a message board. Smacks of some sort of insecurity. You seem a bit touchy this afternoon, alster? I didn't say the article was unbalanced or unfair, just that the person who wrote it could have simply used Oatcake as their source of reference. The article equates the Pulis and Hughes years as stuck in the middle. I don't; I think the later has improved the team/squad, generally, although I concede we have not had so many "high points". To repeat myself, I take the more positive view that we are now stuck in the top half of the Prem. My "satisfied" position is that stuck in 9th place is a good place to be, not a cause for frustration. Given a settled team, without injuries to key players, and a better start to a season, I believe 9th is a good place to improve upon and Hughes and his assistants, who have consistently achieved top half season positions with clubs, are the best people to deliver. I have never pretended dissatisfaction doesn't exist with some fans and never questioned anyone's sanity, just their rationale. I simply take a contrary view to those who are dissatisfied to the point of wanting to replace the manager, which I think would be foolhardy. I don't think Hughes is an "average manager", in fact Stoke City has been blessed with two successive managers who have been better than the average and only clubs with much, much bigger budgets have done consistently better than Stoke over the last 8 seasons. This is not to say that I think everything in the garden is rosy. I have been bitterly disappointed at the lack of a cup run this season, and am concerned at the aging squad, and lack of product from the academy. Buying players for a lot of money who fail to make the grade, I can live with. That is football and as for wasting money, we could take lessons off ManU, ManC, Liverpool, and Arsenal. I can understand young fans wanting faster progress, I was young once - a long time ago, but after over half a century supporting Stoke I am able to be patient and still enjoy our current exalted position in the league. (Didn't understand the insecurity comment.) |
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