|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 2, 2017 18:41:56 GMT
Wow!!! What a fantastic thread. Thank you to everyone contributing.
March what was the first year that you started going and can you remember if the whole of the Stoke End was terraced at the time?
Cheers
|
|
|
|
Post by lagwafis on Mar 2, 2017 19:14:34 GMT
I've had a go at piecing together what I have in the form of a timeline. Sources are mainly archived footage, documentaries and documents released around the time we left the Vic. 1896 - For an FA Cup semi final (Derby vs. Everton) a temporary touchline stand was added to hold 1000. Stoke kept this stand in place and it was eventually finished off to form what would be known as the first Butler Street Stand (the below shows the 'before and after' at the turn of the century).  1901 - Improved dressing rooms and extra 'banking' was added to the corners of the athletics track. The improved facilities can be seen on the Boothen Road side of the above image. 1902 - The Ground was closed for two weeks following crowd trouble during the visit of Grimsby Town. During this period improvements were made to the grand stand (Boothen Stand). Support pillars were made thinner to improve supporter views. 1903 - The club obtained a 21 year lease from the church which enabled them to move forward with major ground improvements. These included: - A two story pavilion was built for the players and officials on the Boothen Road side of the ground.
- The Butler Street Stand was overhauled with a new cover which spanned 70 feet, housing between 7,000 - 8,000 spectators (first picture, below)
- Two new roofs were added on the popular End (Stoke End) - (second picture, below)
1919 -The paddock in front of the Butler Street Stand was terraced and the Boothen End was also backed up / extended (below). Higher fencing was also added at the front of the stands due to crowd trouble in a 1911 game vs. QPR (the fencing can be seen below)
1922 - Following promotion to Division One a new wooden main stand was added, seating 2,000 on the Boothen Road side of the ground (below). July of the same year also saw the addition of new dressing rooms as part of the main stand. On Boxing Day 1922 we recorded a record home attendance of 44,000 vs. Sunderland (we lost 1-2)
1925 - Stoke becomes a City. The club change names to 'Stoke City'.
1928 - Stoke purchase the ground in July 1928 for £3,170. In August the cycle track is finally removed in full, allowing terracing to be moved closer to the touchlines.
1929 - During the summer a new roof is added on top of the Boothen End ready for the 1929/30 season. At 260 feet long, 90 feet wide and 54 feet high it shelters 12,000 spectators.
1936 - In April we apparently had plans for a new £20k stand on Boothen Road but it never happened. Instead the Butler Street Stand was expanded to accommodate 7k seats. A new car park is opened behind the Butler Street Stand, including a bridge across the River Trent. The pitch is also moved 17 feet nearer to the Butler Street Stand and the Paddock is sunk down (below)
1963 - The new Boothen Stand is constructed (as seen in other photographs which include the infamous 'sheep on the pitch).
1979 - Construction of the new Stoke End Stand
|
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Mar 2, 2017 19:18:29 GMT
 Mind you, looking at this image from 1974, the Stoke End looks a real crumbling mess by then! Welling up here... around this time my Dad and Uncle started taking me. Used to stand on the Stoke End terrace, me sitting on one of the barriers. Both no longer with us - they would of loved this thread. |
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 2, 2017 19:36:44 GMT
I've had a go at piecing together what I have in the form of a timeline. Sources are mainly archived footage, documentaries and documents released around the time we left the Vic. 1896 - For an FA Cup semi final (Derby vs. Everton) a temporary touchline stand was added to hold 1000. Stoke kept this stand in place and it was eventually finished off to form what would be known as the first Butler Street Stand (the below shows the 'before and after' at the turn of the century). 1901 - Improved dressing rooms and extra 'banking' was added to the corners of the athletics track. The improved facilities can be seen on the Boothen Road side of the above image. 1902 - The Ground was closed for two weeks following crowd trouble during the visit of Grimsby Town. During this period improvements were made to the grand stand (Boothen Stand). Support pillars were made thinner to improve supporter views. 1903 - The club obtained a 21 year lease from the church which enabled them to move forward with major ground improvements. These included: - A two story pavilion was built for the players and officials on the Boothen Road side of the ground.
- The Butler Street Stand was overhauled with a new cover which spanned 70 feet, housing between 7,000 - 8,000 spectators (first picture, below)
- Two new roofs were added on the popular End (Stoke End) - (second picture, below)
1919 -The paddock in front of the Butler Street Stand was terraced and the Boothen End was also backed up / extended (below). Higher fencing was also added at the front of the stands due to crowd trouble in a 1911 game vs. QPR (the fencing can be seen below)
1922 - Following promotion to Division One a new wooden main stand was added, seating 2,000 on the Boothen Road side of the ground (below). July of the same year also saw the addition of new dressing rooms as part of the main stand. On Boxing Day 1922 we recorded a record home attendance of 44,000 vs. Sunderland (we lost 1-2)
1925 - Stoke becomes a City. The club change names to 'Stoke City'.
1928 - Stoke purchase the ground in July 1928 for £3,170. In August the cycle track is finally removed in full, allowing terracing to be moved closer to the touchlines.
1929 - During the summer a new roof is added on top of the Boothen End ready for the 1929/30 season. At 260 feet long, 90 feet wide and 54 feet high it shelters 12,000 spectators.
1936 - In April we apparently had plans for a new £20k stand on Boothen Road but it never happened. Instead the Butler Street Stand was expanded to accommodate 7k seats. A new car park is opened behind the Butler Street Stand, including a bridge across the River Trent. The pitch is also moved 17 feet nearer to the Butler Street Stand and the Paddock is sunk down (below)
1963 - The new Boothen Stand is constructed (as seen in other photographs which include the infamous 'sheep on the pitch).
1979 - Construction of the new Stoke End Stand
That's got to be the post of the thread mate - excellent!
Your 1922 picture looks too early though. In this picture from 1927 the oval shaped running track is clearly still there. Your picture is from post 1930-32ish because you can see the white roofed extended Boothen stand there but nevertheless it's marvellous picture of the stand which we haven't seen before.
So it was kicking off in the Vic back then as well! 
|
|
|
|
Post by Davef on Mar 2, 2017 20:05:38 GMT
Oh they're fantastic pictures mate, where did you find them and any ideas on the year?
Players are wearing stripes with dark shorts,which suggests it's around the 1890s. These two photos appear in The Boothen Ends video. It's from 1892 v. Sunderland. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 20:09:04 GMT
Pim's sign on the old Stoke End Stand.(Geo Pim's & Co) was a Local Brewery located in Copeland Street! Building demolished to accommodate the'D' road.
|
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 3, 2017 0:34:55 GMT
If we are looking back towards the uncovered Boothen End here, does it actually explain why the original Butler Street stand was built to the northern end of the ground (rather than centrally) in 1903 because that is where the finishing line on the athletic track was located, or am I thinking about this too hard?
|
|
|
|
Post by Davef on Mar 3, 2017 9:37:03 GMT
If we are looking back towards the uncovered Boothen End here, does it actually explain why the original Butler Street stand was built to the northern end of the ground (rather than centrally) in 1903 because that is where the finishing line on the athletic track was located, or am I thinking about this too hard?
Paul I'd say the location of the Butler Street stand had more to do with the River Trent behind it. When the stand was extended and the corner completed a bridge was built. I think ultimately one of the reasons we moved was that we'd have had to redirect the river to build a new Butler Street Stand and redevelop the Boothen End and we just didn't have the money to do it. |
|
|
|
Post by Staffsoatcake on Mar 3, 2017 9:43:58 GMT
 I've read a few accounts of the Victoria Ground which state that the Butler Street Stand was built in 1935. This is a photo from 1921 and that is quite clearly the Butler Street Stand featured in the aerial photos (it doesn't look any different from the footage in the WBA v Bolton Semi Final). It's got the same barrel roof and stanchions. The stand was obviously completed in 1936, but it's a bit disappointing that there is no historical confirmation about this. I'd also like to know when the Stoke End terracing was completed. Love the refs attire...... That Ref. looks like Hitler. |
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 3, 2017 10:52:16 GMT
Great thread and sorry to go slightly off topic but just came across this and seemed a good thread to post it on
|
|
|
|
Post by Veritas on Mar 3, 2017 11:06:07 GMT
That of couse was at Maine Rd
|
|
|
|
Post by Veritas on Mar 3, 2017 11:09:06 GMT
I think our top crowd was 51,000 against Arsenal in the 1930's although my granddad, who lived across from the Stoke End in Campbell Rd, always said the biggest ever crowd at the ground was for a politcal rally, possibly during the general strike or something like that, no idea if there is any truth in that?
|
|
|
|
Post by Staffsoatcake on Mar 3, 2017 11:10:22 GMT
Are there any photos of the dressing rooms from yonks ago, and the piss laden toilets in the Boothen end? |
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 3, 2017 12:13:02 GMT
If we are looking back towards the uncovered Boothen End here, does it actually explain why the original Butler Street stand was built to the northern end of the ground (rather than centrally) in 1903 because that is where the finishing line on the athletic track was located, or am I thinking about this too hard?
Paul I'd say the location of the Butler Street stand had more to do with the River Trent behind it. When the stand was extended and the corner completed a bridge was built. I think ultimately one of the reasons we moved was that we'd have had to redirect the river to build a new Butler Street Stand and redevelop the Boothen End and we just didn't have the money to do it. Yes that would make sense Dave. Are we now thinking that the original barrel roof and stanchions erected in 1903 simply became a part of the Butler Street stand in 1936 (rather than the entire thing being built from scratch then) and remained there until the roof blew off in 1976? |
|
|
|
Post by Davef on Mar 3, 2017 12:25:36 GMT
Yes, I think so.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dutchpeter on Mar 3, 2017 13:06:55 GMT
I've got pics of the Victoria Ground 1997/98 that I'll be scanning for posting on here. I took pictures everywhere from the last match to when it was reduced to a pile of rubble. Bogs, floodlights, offices, concourses, changing rooms etc. I was disappointed with them at the time, but now that time has moved on, some of them look a lot better to me. The pictures of a shattered Boothen End with its collapsed roof breaks my heart. When I'm back home next I'll get it done.
|
|
|
|
Post by eddyclamp on Mar 3, 2017 13:16:18 GMT
I had no idea that there was ever a roof on the Old Stoke End . A really interesting thread .
|
|
|
|
Post by Staying up for Grandadstokey on Mar 3, 2017 13:16:59 GMT
Great thread and sorry to go slightly off topic but just came across this and seemed a good thread to post it on I remember my dad telling me about this match, he was there with 2 of my Uncles,the three of them were also there on the day of the Burnden Park disaster. I too have really enjoyed this thread, well done to those sho have gone to the trouble of researching the history and providing such brilliant photos etc. |
|
|
|
Post by eddyclamp on Mar 3, 2017 13:17:30 GMT
Pim's sign on the old Stoke End Stand.(Geo Pim's & Co) was a Local Brewery located in Copeland Street! Building demolished to accommodate the'D' road. Where about in Copeland street was the brewery and when did it close? |
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 3, 2017 13:43:30 GMT
Oh they're fantastic pictures mate, where did you find them and any ideas on the year?
I can't find an exact date on the ones above unfortunately (beyond being 'turn of the century'). Going further back into the late 1800s, I'm not sure what corner this first (below) image is but apparently it's from about 1868 when the Vic was still an athletics ground. Apparently the second image is from a time when each goal was an open grassy bank with only a small stand on Boothen Road. I've got quite a few photos from old archive footage etc. which hasn't been posted on this thread yet. I'll have a go at uploading them + try to piece together a time line for the early 20th century from a couple of other books and videos. 
When you first posted these pictures, I did say that the second picture didn't fit any of the criteria that we'd seen so far and I didn't know what to make of it, so I had a bit of a look around ...
The painting is believed to have been painted by an artist named Samuel Wilson and is actually a painting of Sunderland not Stoke and hung above the stairs at Roker Park for many years.
So I think we can probably discount this picture but of course please keep anymore of your great images coming through.
Cheers
|
|
|
|
Post by Davef on Mar 3, 2017 15:04:18 GMT
Didn't footage of Stoke v Grimsby at the Victoria Ground, from before WW1 surface a few years ago? Yup. 
Does anybody fancy a stab at working out what we're looking at here or what the year is?
I'm thinking that it must be incredibly early (we're not wearing stripes) and I'm not even entirely sure which end of the ground the footage it taken from.
I'm guessing it's taken form the Stoke End and that it is the Boothen Stand that we're looking at but I'm far from sure.
You'll notice the advertising on the stand says something like "Mccfarle Tailor Piccadilly Hanley".
Any thoughts?
I'd say that's taken from the Boothen End. The houses behind the goal are those in Selwyn Street. There were no houses behind the Boothen End, just the primary school. Edit: Sorry Paul, I removed your post instead of the one I posted when I was logged into the Admin account.  |
|
|
|
Post by AlliG on Mar 3, 2017 15:06:17 GMT
Didn't footage of Stoke v Grimsby at the Victoria Ground, from before WW1 surface a few years ago? Yup.
Does anybody fancy a stab at working out what we're looking at here or what the year is?
I'm thinking that it must be incredibly early (we're not wearing stripes) and I'm not even entirely sure which end of the ground the footage it taken from.
I'm guessing it's taken form the Stoke End and that it is the Boothen Stand that we're looking at but I'm far from sure.
You'll notice the advertising on the stand says something like "Mccfarle Tailor Piccadilly Hanley".
Any thoughts?
The voice over on the clip suggests it was 1902 (we didn't play Grimsby between 1891 and 1901 and then after 1903 not until 1908). The quality of the film would tend to confirm it as 1902. To me it looks like the camera was at the corner between the Boothen End & Boothen Stand, because the row of houses behind the goal at the far end look very much like the rows of houses that appear on some of the other photos both from their style and alignment relative to the pitch. |
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 3, 2017 15:17:45 GMT
Yup.
Does anybody fancy a stab at working out what we're looking at here or what the year is?
I'm thinking that it must be incredibly early (we're not wearing stripes) and I'm not even entirely sure which end of the ground the footage it taken from.
I'm guessing it's taken form the Stoke End and that it is the Boothen Stand that we're looking at but I'm far from sure.
You'll notice the advertising on the stand says something like "Mccfarle Tailor Piccadilly Hanley".
Any thoughts?
I'd say that's taken from the Boothen End. The houses behind the goal are those in Selwyn Street. There were no houses behind the Boothen End, just the primary school. Edit: Sorry Paul, I removed your post instead of the one I posted when I was logged into the Admin account.
Ha ha no worries Dave!
I did wonder if the houses were those in Selwyn Street but I couldn't reconcile it with looking at the original Butler Street stand from 1903.
I didn't listen to the video when I played it (I just assumed it would be silent - duh!), if I had have done so, I would have realised that it was from 1902.
So what we're seeing there then for the first time, is the stand that was erected for the 1896 Derby v Everton semi-final prior to the Butler St. Stand being built in 1903.
|
|
|
|
Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 3, 2017 15:18:32 GMT
Yup.
Does anybody fancy a stab at working out what we're looking at here or what the year is?
I'm thinking that it must be incredibly early (we're not wearing stripes) and I'm not even entirely sure which end of the ground the footage it taken from.
I'm guessing it's taken form the Stoke End and that it is the Boothen Stand that we're looking at but I'm far from sure.
You'll notice the advertising on the stand says something like "Mccfarle Tailor Piccadilly Hanley".
Any thoughts?
The voice over on the clip suggests it was 1902 (we didn't play Grimsby between 1891 and 1901 and then after 1903 not until 1908). The quality of the film would tend to confirm it as 1902. To me it looks like the camera was at the corner between the Boothen End & Boothen Stand, because the row of houses behind the goal at the far end look very much like the rows of houses that appear on some of the other photos both from their style and alignment relative to the pitch. I think you've got that bang on mate. I think the stand you can see is the 'half' Butler Street Stand seen in other older photo's. You can actually see the gasometer (or part of it) to the right of the shot at one point as well. |
|
|
|
Post by kentpotter on Mar 3, 2017 15:20:04 GMT
 The guilty men! |
|
|
|
Post by kentpotter on Mar 3, 2017 15:21:17 GMT
 The start of the apocalypse!!! |
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 3, 2017 15:21:21 GMT
The voice over on the clip suggests it was 1902 (we didn't play Grimsby between 1891 and 1901 and then after 1903 not until 1908). The quality of the film would tend to confirm it as 1902. To me it looks like the camera was at the corner between the Boothen End & Boothen Stand, because the row of houses behind the goal at the far end look very much like the rows of houses that appear on some of the other photos both from their style and alignment relative to the pitch. I think you've got that bang on mate. I think the stand you can see is the 'half' Butler Street Stand seen in other older photo's. You can actually see the gasometer (or part of it) to the right of the shot at one point as well.
I did wonder if that was the gasometer towards the end of the clip but then thought it might actually be a shadow on the film but I think you're absolutely right now.
Although I think the roof and stanchions are different from the ones on the Butler Street stand that we've seen on the other early pictures previously.
I'm thinking this is the stand before even that!
|
|
|
|
Post by tonedepear on Mar 3, 2017 15:30:28 GMT
What a brilliant thread. Well played everyone concerned. 10/10, would read again.
|
|
|
|
Post by Davef on Mar 3, 2017 15:32:52 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 3, 2017 15:48:50 GMT
Oh they're fantastic pictures mate, where did you find them and any ideas on the year?
I can't find an exact date on the ones above unfortunately (beyond being 'turn of the century'). Going further back into the late 1800s, I'm not sure what corner this first (below) image is but apparently it's from about 1868 when the Vic was still an athletics ground. Apparently the second image is from a time when each goal was an open grassy bank with only a small stand on Boothen Road. I've got quite a few photos from old archive footage etc. which hasn't been posted on this thread yet. I'll have a go at uploading them + try to piece together a time line for the early 20th century from a couple of other books and videos.
Sadly I don't think the top picture is from the Vic either mate.
If you look at the picture below, taken at the 1908 Olympic games, they are extremely similar but hey never mind we're bound to have a few stumbles along the way. Please keep any more coming.
![]()
![]()
|
|
