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Post by wannabee on Nov 8, 2024 0:35:23 GMT
There is no evidence that Socrates ever said "I know that I know nothing" but it is attributed to him by Plato in his Dialogues. Nevertheless my interpretation of the phrase is an acknowledgement that everything we believe is simply an opinion based on our subjective perception of life. You are doing exactly what you accuse others of by "othering" any ideas that are contrary to yours because you "know best". This is the exact opposite of the meaning of the phrase which encourages an open mind because "we don't know what we don't know" In any case that philosophical but to the practical In any Election there are choices, you may not like the choices, but those are the choices. If it bothers you so much become an activist rather than complaining of how things are. Of course the system is rigged because money and power give people influence to rig the system as it has since time immemorial "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference". - Reinhold Niebuhr Pragmatism doesn't mean a lowering of standards, far from it. A few hundred years ago you and I would likely be serfs on some landlords land with a load of kids half dying before the age of 5. 250 years ago the Industrial Revolution brought great wealth to a few not the many, appalling living conditions and heralded the demise of the Planet we see today. In barely 100 years Women can vote, Workers can organize in Unions, life expectancy has increased hugely through social change and Medical advancement and many others. Societies evolve maybe too slowly for your liking but if the pace of the next 100 years is like the last and most likely accelerated it will be unrecognizable to today. Communication like most technology is both a gift and a source of tension. When the serfs went about their daily lives they had no idea what was happening in the next village never mind another Continent if they were even aware of such places. Now areas of the World see instantly on their TVs or Mobile Phones the difference in affluence and want a share. Technology as I say is a double edged sword. The two most likely advancements in the next 20/30 years will like be Green Technology and AI. Both will bring great Wealth to those that control it but will benefit the ordinary person by raising their quality and standard of life. It will almost certainly increase inequality of Wealth but the General Standard will be higher, is this enough? I didn't realise it was disputed but still some attribute it to socrates and I guess the meaning is subjective and open to interpretation. I do have strong beliefs of course and you're correct that at my core I feel that from my perspective of the world they're right. I feel though that through having those strong beliefs it's why I'm more opposed to this "lesser of two evils" approach. With that said though I feel I'm a bit more open and less rigid with my views, in the past I'd have generally conscribed to voting between the big two too. And of course in my own country the tribal voting is well documented too but at least through our different electoral process we do have a better spread of representation now. This is exactly why it's incredibly important to not be settling for second best. These last 100 years aren't the normal and if we can look back 10, 20, 30 years ago and look ahead the same amount and recognise a slow trend were many of these things are getting worse, then when do you take action? If we always focus on the option which slows the rot then we still rot eventually. All the more reason to be incredibly wary and cautious about who we are electing. We've seen enough videos from Gaza and Ukraine to see how easily a load of people can be wiped out by the press of a button miles away. Before 100 years ago those leaders needed armies and people on their side to stay in power and win wars. It's not about if it's enough. Manpower was our bargaining tool before, without that we may find we are also just as disposable as those in Ukraine and Gaza. When capitalism is driven by profit and when humas become an expense compared to robots and AI... and if the profits are all syphoned to a few oligarchs. Where's our bargaining power? Socrates never wrote anything as he believed it was an ineffective means of communication so anything attributed to him was scribed by primarily Plato in his Dialogues but also Aristophanes, Aristotle, and Xenophon. If you compare their writings you will find contradictions of what they say he said. All very esoteric. Of course you have core beliefs and of course you believe them to be correct, anything else would be bizarre, that's hardly unique, so too do I have core beliefs as does everyone else, it doesn't make them more valid, just different based on our respective experience and opinions. You dismiss the concept of "the lesser of two evils" I prefer to use "the best option available" in the absence of a more suitable candidate. OK we disagree. An earlier post by Paul Spencer sums that up as far as I'm concerned when he highlighted the "missing" 15M Democratic Voters who disagreed with many of the Democrats policies who abstained but by default a person Trump whose policies they even more fundamentally disagree with is elected. That to me is perverse and to use another cliche "Cutting off your nose to spite your face" The World is about 4.5M years old my point was essentially it moves forward, I could debate your point that it has stalled in the last 10/30 years but even if I agree it is a very short period in the cycle. When you talk about "Rot" you concede with the better Candidate the "Rot" would be less, is your proposition therefore we should Elect the worst Candidates to accelerate the "Rot" to force change? With respect your final paragraph is talking about the existential existence of Humankind that is so far detached from the original discussion of whether to vote for a less ideal candidate is more favourable or not I'm not going to address it but if you wish start a thread and I will |
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Post by musik on Nov 8, 2024 1:09:36 GMT
This week has been terrible. The only saving grace is that you have now successfully put the bianco mockers on the 'skillful orator' Vivek in the same way you did for 'class act' Ron. 😁 It'll be Haley in 2028. Haley is fit ❤️ It's been a fantastic week. Haley who? Kalil? |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 8, 2024 6:19:10 GMT
I didn't realise it was disputed but still some attribute it to socrates and I guess the meaning is subjective and open to interpretation. I do have strong beliefs of course and you're correct that at my core I feel that from my perspective of the world they're right. I feel though that through having those strong beliefs it's why I'm more opposed to this "lesser of two evils" approach. With that said though I feel I'm a bit more open and less rigid with my views, in the past I'd have generally conscribed to voting between the big two too. And of course in my own country the tribal voting is well documented too but at least through our different electoral process we do have a better spread of representation now. This is exactly why it's incredibly important to not be settling for second best. These last 100 years aren't the normal and if we can look back 10, 20, 30 years ago and look ahead the same amount and recognise a slow trend were many of these things are getting worse, then when do you take action? If we always focus on the option which slows the rot then we still rot eventually. All the more reason to be incredibly wary and cautious about who we are electing. We've seen enough videos from Gaza and Ukraine to see how easily a load of people can be wiped out by the press of a button miles away. Before 100 years ago those leaders needed armies and people on their side to stay in power and win wars. It's not about if it's enough. Manpower was our bargaining tool before, without that we may find we are also just as disposable as those in Ukraine and Gaza. When capitalism is driven by profit and when humas become an expense compared to robots and AI... and if the profits are all syphoned to a few oligarchs. Where's our bargaining power? Socrates never wrote anything as he believed it was an ineffective means of communication so anything attributed to him was scribed by primarily Plato in his Dialogues but also Aristophanes, Aristotle, and Xenophon. If you compare their writings you will find contradictions of what they say he said. All very esoteric. Of course you have core beliefs and of course you believe them to be correct, anything else would be bizarre, that's hardly unique, so too do I have core beliefs as does everyone else, it doesn't make them more valid, just different based on our respective experience and opinions. You dismiss the concept of "the lesser of two evils" I prefer to use "the best option available" in the absence of a more suitable candidate. OK we disagree. An earlier post by Paul Spencer sums that up as far as I'm concerned when he highlighted the "missing" 15M Democratic Voters who disagreed with many of the Democrats policies who abstained but by default a person Trump whose policies they even more fundamentally disagree with is elected. That to me is perverse and to use another cliche "Cutting off your nose to spite your face" The World is about 4.5M years old my point was essentially it moves forward, I could debate your point that it has stalled in the last 10/30 years but even if I agree it is a very short period in the cycle. When you talk about "Rot" you concede with the better Candidate the "Rot" would be less, is your proposition therefore we should Elect the worst Candidates to accelerate the "Rot" to force change? With respect your final paragraph is talking about the existential existence of Humankind that is so far detached from the original discussion of whether to vote for a less ideal candidate is more favourable or not I'm not going to address it but if you wish start a thread and I will Socrates died about 2500 years ago lads. Get over it. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 8, 2024 6:19:21 GMT
Haley is fit ❤️ It's been a fantastic week. Haley who? Kalil? Bill |
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Post by essexstokey on Nov 8, 2024 7:06:28 GMT
Edd Davey has it 100% right a dark day for the world
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Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 8, 2024 7:07:28 GMT
Kalil Bill. The Bollywood Tarantino remake? |
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 8, 2024 7:25:54 GMT
I think we are just upset that the wonderful De Santis didn’t make it. And the question on all our lips is whether Trump can possibly match anything quite as incredible as Kwarteng and Truss’s brilliant budget!? Actually I strongly expect Trump's budget to be very much along the lines of a libertarian Kwasi budget. As for Super Ron, he's doing just fine. He's living his best life in Florida and will be at the forefront of Republican politics for years to come. That said, it looks like 2028 could be the Vivek show. The guy is an unbelievably skilfull orator. I guess it's hard to take for you Oggy. You've lost your beloved, corrupt old boys club in Brussels, Starmer looks set to be ousted at the first opportunity and now your woke dystopia of a United States led by a lady who values the mutilation of children and blokes claiming they are women over real life issues - ie, the economy, law and order and preventing WW3. The woke empire is crumbling and it's going to be burnt to the ground. Trump is far too smart to do what your beloved Truss did to our economy! The majority of people are against racism and homophobia. Most people are woke. Only the worst scum in this world are not. I don’t think you are one of them. You just don’t understand the meaning of the word woke! Which is pretty funny. Labour trounced your lot and on almost every single thread you reveal your complete obsession with Starmer! He is really getting to you isn’t he! You are so easily triggered. Perhaps look into that, you need to find closure because Starmer rules supreme and is making good progress. But you must be against better public services and higher taxes for wealthier people to pay for it. The EU is stronger and closer than it has been for ages. That’s excellent. If Trump moves against the UK and the EU with trade wars, we will continue getting closer and closer to the EU. Things are very much looking up! Not so much for Ukraine and Gaza though, sadly. But let’s see if Trump does what he says. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 8, 2024 7:36:16 GMT
I honestly don’t know how some of you lefties dare to leave the house sometimes The liberal left literally didn't leave the house for two years mate. They were busy self flaggelating to BLM in their lockdown wonderland, masked up to the hilt and cheering on the destruction of the economy, the assault on children's education and health, a two tier society while encouraging the shutting down of our health service for anything other than covid. You are absolutely obsessed by the “liberal left” and make believe opinions you project on to them. I think you need therapy. I wonder what happened to you in your childhood to create so much anger and hate! |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 8, 2024 9:12:08 GMT
The liberal left literally didn't leave the house for two years mate. They were busy self flaggelating to BLM in their lockdown wonderland, masked up to the hilt and cheering on the destruction of the economy, the assault on children's education and health, a two tier society while encouraging the shutting down of our health service for anything other than covid. You are absolutely obsessed by the “liberal left” and make believe opinions you project on to them. I think you need therapy. I wonder what happened to you in your childhood to create so much anger and hate! Morning mate. Still struggling to get over this I see? It will get easier for you, I promise. Stay strong, you can do this ☺️ "The EU is stronger and closer than it's been for ages". 😂😂😂 Quote of the week. You really are a bit of an anorak oggy aren't you. Bitter with a chip on your shoulder. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Nov 8, 2024 9:17:48 GMT
I honestly don’t know how some of you lefties dare to leave the house sometimes The liberal left literally didn't leave the house for two years mate. They were busy self flaggelating to BLM in their lockdown wonderland, masked up to the hilt and cheering on the destruction of the economy, the assault on children's education and health, a two tier society while encouraging the shutting down of our health service for anything other than covid. You do realise it was the political right which bought in lockdown, masked up the nation, destroyed the economy, broke the education and heath system, and oversaw the development of a two-tier society? |
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 8, 2024 9:18:27 GMT
You are absolutely obsessed by the “liberal left” and make believe opinions you project on to them. I think you need therapy. I wonder what happened to you in your childhood to create so much anger and hate! Morning mate. Still struggling to get over this I see? It will get easier for you, I promise. Stay strong, you can do this ☺️ "The EU is stronger and closer than it's been for ages". 😂😂😂 Quote of the week. You really are a bit of an anorak oggy aren't you. Bitter with a chip on your shoulder. You remind of Martha from Baby Reindeer, and Kier Starmer is your Donny. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 8, 2024 9:19:11 GMT
The liberal left literally didn't leave the house for two years mate. They were busy self flaggelating to BLM in their lockdown wonderland, masked up to the hilt and cheering on the destruction of the economy, the assault on children's education and health, a two tier society while encouraging the shutting down of our health service for anything other than covid. You do realise it was the political right which bought in lockdown, masked up the nation, destroyed the economy, broke the education and heath system, and oversaw the development of a two-tier society? Shhhh, don’t dispel his illusion. It is all Kier Starmer’s fault! |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 8, 2024 9:20:41 GMT
The liberal left literally didn't leave the house for two years mate. They were busy self flaggelating to BLM in their lockdown wonderland, masked up to the hilt and cheering on the destruction of the economy, the assault on children's education and health, a two tier society while encouraging the shutting down of our health service for anything other than covid. You do realise it was the political right which bought in lockdown, masked up the nation, destroyed the economy, broke the education and heath system, and oversaw the development of a two-tier society? Are you seriously you suggesting Boris and the last Tory government were right wing? He made Blair look like Trump. Wait until you see actual right wing leadership. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 8, 2024 9:26:19 GMT
Morning mate. Still struggling to get over this I see? It will get easier for you, I promise. Stay strong, you can do this ☺️ "The EU is stronger and closer than it's been for ages". 😂😂😂 Quote of the week. You really are a bit of an anorak oggy aren't you. Bitter with a chip on your shoulder. You remind of Martha from Baby Reindeer, and Kier Starmer is your Donny. This is fantastic. You're literally so triggered by Trump's victory aren't you 😂 Given how hard you get over Starmer and the EU, I think Mad Martha would be an improvement on your current sex life! You keep losing Oggy, deal with it and stop taking your bitterness out on others.🤗 |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Nov 8, 2024 9:26:53 GMT
You do realise it was the political right which bought in lockdown, masked up the nation, destroyed the economy, broke the education and heath system, and oversaw the development of a two-tier society? Are you seriously you suggesting Boris and the last Tory government were right wing? He made Blair look like Trump. Wait until you see actual right wing leadership. Which reference point are you using for your anti-liberal, socially conservative, strong government, nationalistic, free-market sentiments and excessive focus on traditional values? Badenoch? Thatcher? Putin? Hitler? |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Nov 8, 2024 9:29:23 GMT
You remind of Martha from Baby Reindeer, and Kier Starmer is your Donny. This is fantastic. You're literally so triggered by Trump's victory aren't you 😂 Given how hard you get over Starmer and the EU, I think Mad Martha would be an improvement on your current sex life! You keep losing Oggy, deal with it and stop taking your bitterness out on others.🤗 Why on earth have you lowered yourself to referring to someone else's sex life? You should at least make some reference to your own sex life in the interests of fairness. Is that where your curious former reference to flagellation comes from? |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 8, 2024 9:34:31 GMT
Are you seriously you suggesting Boris and the last Tory government were right wing? He made Blair look like Trump. Wait until you see actual right wing leadership. Which reference point are you using for your anti-liberal, socially conservative, strong government, nationalistic, free-market sentiments and excessive focus on traditional values? Badenoch? Thatcher? Putin? Hitler? It's only took until... 9.27 for Aerial Manto to bring up "Hitler" or call someone who doesn't agree with his creepy political views a "fascist". Thatcher, yes... Not sure about your other 3. Boris - The man who completely neglected the private sector, encouraged immigration to record levels, introduced a Nanny State for 18 months, ploughed millions into the increasingly deranged net zero dystopia and presided over a police force that became a running joke. What planet are you on to think Boris was a right wing leader? Give me some evidence. |
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Post by salopstick on Nov 8, 2024 9:37:08 GMT
Actually I strongly expect Trump's budget to be very much along the lines of a libertarian Kwasi budget. As for Super Ron, he's doing just fine. He's living his best life in Florida and will be at the forefront of Republican politics for years to come. That said, it looks like 2028 could be the Vivek show. The guy is an unbelievably skilfull orator. I guess it's hard to take for you Oggy. You've lost your beloved, corrupt old boys club in Brussels, Starmer looks set to be ousted at the first opportunity and now your woke dystopia of a United States led by a lady who values the mutilation of children and blokes claiming they are women over real life issues - ie, the economy, law and order and preventing WW3. The woke empire is crumbling and it's going to be burnt to the ground. Trump is far too smart to do what your beloved Truss did to our economy! The majority of people are against racism and homophobia. Most people are woke. Only the worst scum in this world are not. I don’t think you are one of them. You just don’t understand the meaning of the word woke! Which is pretty funny. Labour trounced your lot and on almost every single thread you reveal your complete obsession with Starmer! He is really getting to you isn’t he! You are so easily triggered. Perhaps look into that, you need to find closure because Starmer rules supreme and is making good progress. But you must be against better public services and higher taxes for wealthier people to pay for it. The EU is stronger and closer than it has been for ages. That’s excellent. If Trump moves against the UK and the EU with trade wars, we will continue getting closer and closer to the EU. Things are very much looking up! Not so much for Ukraine and Gaza though, sadly. But let’s see if Trump does what he says. Games gone |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 8, 2024 9:39:53 GMT
You do realise it was the political right which bought in lockdown, masked up the nation, destroyed the economy, broke the education and heath system, and oversaw the development of a two-tier society? Are you seriously you suggesting Boris and the last Tory government were right wing? He made Blair look like Trump. Wait until you see actual right wing leadership. Your right. Good thing Big Keir freed as from the yoke of the Communism and set us free. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 8, 2024 9:40:14 GMT
This is fantastic. You're literally so triggered by Trump's victory aren't you 😂 Given how hard you get over Starmer and the EU, I think Mad Martha would be an improvement on your current sex life! You keep losing Oggy, deal with it and stop taking your bitterness out on others.🤗 Why on earth have you lowered yourself to referring to someone else's sex life? You should at least make some reference to your own sex life in the interests of fairness. Is that where your curious former reference to flagellation comes from? Right, but it's acceptable for Oggy to refer to someone's childhood and take a derogatory view towards people who have therapy? Good to see you're being unbiased as as ever Ariel Manto. P.s I've already told you who is in my wank bank, Nikki Haley. Do you want more information? |
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 8, 2024 10:12:02 GMT
Why on earth have you lowered yourself to referring to someone else's sex life? You should at least make some reference to your own sex life in the interests of fairness. Is that where your curious former reference to flagellation comes from? Right, but it's acceptable for Oggy to refer to someone's childhood and take a derogatory view towards people who have therapy? Good to see you're being unbiased as as ever Ariel Manto. P.s I've already told you who is in my wank bank, Nikki Haley. Do you want more information? Where I have taken a derogatory view towards those in therapy? I’m a big fan of it. I was suggesting it may help you. But I would imagine therapy is a bit “woke” for you because many who have suffered discrimination use therapy of some sort to help. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 8, 2024 10:14:07 GMT
Trump is far too smart to do what your beloved Truss did to our economy! The majority of people are against racism and homophobia. Most people are woke. Only the worst scum in this world are not. I don’t think you are one of them. You just don’t understand the meaning of the word woke! Which is pretty funny. Labour trounced your lot and on almost every single thread you reveal your complete obsession with Starmer! He is really getting to you isn’t he! You are so easily triggered. Perhaps look into that, you need to find closure because Starmer rules supreme and is making good progress. But you must be against better public services and higher taxes for wealthier people to pay for it. The EU is stronger and closer than it has been for ages. That’s excellent. If Trump moves against the UK and the EU with trade wars, we will continue getting closer and closer to the EU. Things are very much looking up! Not so much for Ukraine and Gaza though, sadly. But let’s see if Trump does what he says. Games gone What game? |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Nov 8, 2024 10:16:19 GMT
Why on earth have you lowered yourself to referring to someone else's sex life? You should at least make some reference to your own sex life in the interests of fairness. Is that where your curious former reference to flagellation comes from? Right, but it's acceptable for Oggy to refer to someone's childhood and take a derogatory view towards people who have therapy? Good to see you're being unbiased as as ever Ariel Manto. P.s I've already told you who is in my wank bank, Nikki Haley. Do you want more information? I have categorically NEVER asked you anything about your wank bank or about your childhood or your past therapy. Let's just hope the things never cross. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 8, 2024 10:17:56 GMT
Right, but it's acceptable for Oggy to refer to someone's childhood and take a derogatory view towards people who have therapy? Good to see you're being unbiased as as ever Ariel Manto. P.s I've already told you who is in my wank bank, Nikki Haley. Do you want more information? Where I have taken a derogatory view towards those in therapy? I’m a big fan of it. I was suggesting it may help you. But I would imagine therapy is a bit “woke” for you because many who have suffered discrimination use therapy of some sort to help. Dry your eyes, there's always next time 🥹 |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 8, 2024 10:20:10 GMT
Right, but it's acceptable for Oggy to refer to someone's childhood and take a derogatory view towards people who have therapy? Good to see you're being unbiased as as ever Ariel Manto. P.s I've already told you who is in my wank bank, Nikki Haley. Do you want more information? I have categorically NEVER asked you anything about your wank bank or about your childhood or your past therapy. Let's just hope the things never cross. This thread has come a hell of a long way since its inception hasn't it? |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 8, 2024 10:25:33 GMT
Right, but it's acceptable for Oggy to refer to someone's childhood and take a derogatory view towards people who have therapy? Good to see you're being unbiased as as ever Ariel Manto. P.s I've already told you who is in my wank bank, Nikki Haley. Do you want more information? I have categorically NEVER asked you anything about your wank bank or about your childhood or your past therapy. Let's just hope the things never cross. You haven't. My point was around your criticism of my comment but you were happy to give Oggy a free pass on his comments around my "childhood" and "therapy". Would you agree you perhaps applied double standards there? 😊 As it happens I wasn't offended, but I just found your unashamedly biased post quite amusing. Besides, I'm used to Oggy's meltdowns and bizarre references when he gets triggered. I mean... He's still as bitter as he was 8 years ago over Brexit so I don't expect his emotional state to improve over Kamala's crushing defeat anytime soon. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Nov 8, 2024 10:26:09 GMT
Which reference point are you using for your anti-liberal, socially conservative, strong government, nationalistic, free-market sentiments and excessive focus on traditional values? Badenoch? Thatcher? Putin? Hitler? It's only took until... 9.27 for Aerial Manto to bring up "Hitler" or call someone who doesn't agree with his creepy political views a "fascist". Thatcher, yes... Not sure about your other 3. Boris - The man who completely neglected the private sector, encouraged immigration to record levels, introduced a Nanny State for 18 months, ploughed millions into the increasingly deranged net zero dystopia and presided over a police force that became a running joke. What planet are you on to think Boris was a right wing leader? Give me some evidence. Well, in the interests of fairness you did say this: You do realise it was the political right which bought in lockdown, masked up the nation, destroyed the economy, broke the education and heath system, and oversaw the development of a two-tier society? Are you seriously you suggesting Boris and the last Tory government were right wing? He made Blair look like Trump. Wait until you see actual right wing leadership.I was merely asking you which example of right wing leadership you were asking us to wait for? How were we, the readers, expected to know which example you were referencing unless you told us particularly given the other 3 are also examples of right wing leadership. It turns out you meant Thatcher; which as your post incorrectly stated we don't have to wait for as we've already experienced that form of right wing leadership in the UK. It's an an interesting choice. A woman who's legacy was getting the UK to join the European Single Market and who also oversaw the introduction of the credit card. I'm presuming you aren't referencing the social injustice, gaping economic inequality which the UK still hasn't recovered from, industrial decline, social unrest and deep social division, collapsing public services or contentious foreign policy choices (Pinochet) because you knew all of that before you said you were asking us to wait for the rebirth of Thatcherism, of course. |
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Post by Gawa on Nov 8, 2024 10:28:10 GMT
I didn't realise it was disputed but still some attribute it to socrates and I guess the meaning is subjective and open to interpretation. I do have strong beliefs of course and you're correct that at my core I feel that from my perspective of the world they're right. I feel though that through having those strong beliefs it's why I'm more opposed to this "lesser of two evils" approach. With that said though I feel I'm a bit more open and less rigid with my views, in the past I'd have generally conscribed to voting between the big two too. And of course in my own country the tribal voting is well documented too but at least through our different electoral process we do have a better spread of representation now. This is exactly why it's incredibly important to not be settling for second best. These last 100 years aren't the normal and if we can look back 10, 20, 30 years ago and look ahead the same amount and recognise a slow trend were many of these things are getting worse, then when do you take action? If we always focus on the option which slows the rot then we still rot eventually. All the more reason to be incredibly wary and cautious about who we are electing. We've seen enough videos from Gaza and Ukraine to see how easily a load of people can be wiped out by the press of a button miles away. Before 100 years ago those leaders needed armies and people on their side to stay in power and win wars. It's not about if it's enough. Manpower was our bargaining tool before, without that we may find we are also just as disposable as those in Ukraine and Gaza. When capitalism is driven by profit and when humas become an expense compared to robots and AI... and if the profits are all syphoned to a few oligarchs. Where's our bargaining power? Socrates never wrote anything as he believed it was an ineffective means of communication so anything attributed to him was scribed by primarily Plato in his Dialogues but also Aristophanes, Aristotle, and Xenophon. If you compare their writings you will find contradictions of what they say he said. All very esoteric. Of course you have core beliefs and of course you believe them to be correct, anything else would be bizarre, that's hardly unique, so too do I have core beliefs as does everyone else, it doesn't make them more valid, just different based on our respective experience and opinions. You dismiss the concept of "the lesser of two evils" I prefer to use "the best option available" in the absence of a more suitable candidate. OK we disagree. An earlier post by Paul Spencer sums that up as far as I'm concerned when he highlighted the "missing" 15M Democratic Voters who disagreed with many of the Democrats policies who abstained but by default a person Trump whose policies they even more fundamentally disagree with is elected. That to me is perverse and to use another cliche "Cutting off your nose to spite your face" The World is about 4.5M years old my point was essentially it moves forward, I could debate your point that it has stalled in the last 10/30 years but even if I agree it is a very short period in the cycle. When you talk about "Rot" you concede with the better Candidate the "Rot" would be less, is your proposition therefore we should Elect the worst Candidates to accelerate the "Rot" to force change? With respect your final paragraph is talking about the existential existence of Humankind that is so far detached from the original discussion of whether to vote for a less ideal candidate is more favourable or not I'm not going to address it but if you wish start a thread and I will Ultimately though it's the system rather than your beliefs which dictate which way in which you vote because you believe that in a FPTP system the best method is voting for what you call "the best option available (out of those who may stand a chance)". Under a different system such as PR I think you would vote differently, and so it can be argued that you're voting pattern is very much influenced by the electoral system at play and that electoral system isn't going to change if we as a population keep doing what it's setup to do - electing two parties who benefit from it. In the most recent UK election, I feel that in comparison to americans, we actually have broken the mould a bit in the most recent election. As a result of that I think more people will now vote for who they want rather than "next best". When "next best" hasn't been delivering for the majority then people will continue to look and vote elsewhere. It very much depends who you're speaking to. Working class people expect to be represented and their quality of life to improve under what our media call "the left". In America we have had 12 out of 16 years of Democrat governance, similar to what we have had tory governance over the same period of time. If Democrats haven't improved the lives of working people in that time and they feel their quality of life has got worse then insanity is very much the defininition of repeating the same thing expecting different results. Just like many people have turned their back on the tories too by attributing their worsening quality of life with the party who has been in power. So when people are already on their knees and struggling and the party who is meant to be on their side hasn't made their lives better, don't be surprised when they're no longer qeueuing to vote for "the next best thing" when it's been tried and tested and not improved their lives. The world is incredibly old and that's why we shouldn't presume this "golden age" we have lived in is the norm when it's very much an anomaly in history. The norm is the direction I feel we're heading towards rather than what we're heading from. Of course the "rot" may not be as much but I still ultimately believe both options are heading in the same direction just at different paces with different diversions along the way. Everyone has their boiling point where they're no longer desensitised to their lives getting worse and I think for those in working class estates that time is coming much sooner than for those living in London estates. That's not a personal jibe or attack at you but I imagine perceptions of day to day life in affluent and wealthy London are much different to those in working class estates. I say this as someone whos best friend lives in London and at times seems to be in a bit of a bubble with their world view.* The last paragraph I think is a fascinating topic to discuss and I swear there was a book or novel which was quite popular a few decades ago which sort of explores this type of dystopian future. I may be wrong though but I just have something in the corner of my brain which makes me think there was a popular book which would commonly be referenced when discussing this. *That doesn't mean that I may not be living in a bubble with a detatched world view either. I just want to highlight this isn't me being personal in any way. I'm simply trying to highlight that depending on where you live your perceptions are going to be different and that goes for me too. And so those in London which is a very advanced city with loads on its door step and much better functioning public services than the rest of the uk - I imagine their perceptions are probably going to be better of the uk at the minute - than those living in a working class estate in Burnley. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 8, 2024 10:28:39 GMT
I have categorically NEVER asked you anything about your wank bank or about your childhood or your past therapy. Let's just hope the things never cross. This thread has come a hell of a long way since its inception hasn't it? Only a triggered Oggy could go on a mad, angry, unhinged rant about Trump being evil and Keir Starmer being amazing and then accuse someone of being Mad Martha out of baby reindeer. It's actually one of the great oatcake meltdowns 😂😂 |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Nov 8, 2024 10:32:53 GMT
Socrates never wrote anything as he believed it was an ineffective means of communication so anything attributed to him was scribed by primarily Plato in his Dialogues but also Aristophanes, Aristotle, and Xenophon. If you compare their writings you will find contradictions of what they say he said. All very esoteric. Of course you have core beliefs and of course you believe them to be correct, anything else would be bizarre, that's hardly unique, so too do I have core beliefs as does everyone else, it doesn't make them more valid, just different based on our respective experience and opinions. You dismiss the concept of "the lesser of two evils" I prefer to use "the best option available" in the absence of a more suitable candidate. OK we disagree. An earlier post by Paul Spencer sums that up as far as I'm concerned when he highlighted the "missing" 15M Democratic Voters who disagreed with many of the Democrats policies who abstained but by default a person Trump whose policies they even more fundamentally disagree with is elected. That to me is perverse and to use another cliche "Cutting off your nose to spite your face" The World is about 4.5M years old my point was essentially it moves forward, I could debate your point that it has stalled in the last 10/30 years but even if I agree it is a very short period in the cycle. When you talk about "Rot" you concede with the better Candidate the "Rot" would be less, is your proposition therefore we should Elect the worst Candidates to accelerate the "Rot" to force change? With respect your final paragraph is talking about the existential existence of Humankind that is so far detached from the original discussion of whether to vote for a less ideal candidate is more favourable or not I'm not going to address it but if you wish start a thread and I will Ultimately though it's the system rather than your beliefs which dictate which way in which you vote because you believe that in a FPTP system the best method is voting for what you call "the best option available (out of those who may stand a chance)". Under a different system such as PR I think you would vote differently, and so it can be argued that you're voting pattern is very much influenced by the electoral system at play and that electoral system isn't going to change if we as a population keep doing what it's setup to do - electing two parties who benefit from it. In the most recent UK election, I feel that in comparison to americans, we actually have broken the mould a bit in the most recent election. As a result of that I think more people will now vote for who they want rather than "next best". When "next best" hasn't been delivering for the majority then people will continue to look and vote elsewhere. It very much depends who you're speaking to. Working class people expect to be represented and their quality of life to improve under what our media call "the left". In America we have had 12 out of 16 years of Democrat governance, similar to what we have had tory governance over the same period of time. If Democrats haven't improved the lives of working people in that time and they feel their quality of life has got worse then insanity is very much the defininition of repeating the same thing expecting different results. Just like many people have turned their back on the tories too by attributing their worsening quality of life with the party who has been in power. So when people are already on their knees and struggling and the party who is meant to be on their side hasn't made their lives better, don't be surprised when they're no longer qeueuing to vote for "the next best thing" when it's been tried and tested and not improved their lives. The world is incredibly old and that's why we shouldn't presume this "golden age" we have lived in is the norm when it's very much an anomaly in history. The norm is the direction I feel we're heading towards rather than what we're heading from. Of course the "rot" may not be as much but I still ultimately believe both options are heading in the same direction just at different paces with different diversions along the way. Everyone has their boiling point where they're no longer desensitised to their lives getting worse and I think for those in working class estates that time is coming much sooner than for those living in London estates. That's not a personal jibe or attack at you but I imagine perceptions of day to day life in affluent and wealthy London are much different to those in working class estates. I say this as someone whos best friend lives in London and at times seems to be in a bit of a bubble with their world view. The last paragraph I think is a fascinating topic to discuss and I swear there was a book or novel which was quite popular a few decades ago which sort of explores this type of dystopian future. I may be wrong though but I just have something in the corner of my brain which makes me think there was a popular book which would commonly be referenced when discussing this. Completely agree with that. There is no correlation between the voting intentions of people in First Past The Post elections and those held under PR. It is precisely why those who say Corbyn would have won the 2017 election if it were held under PR are plain wrong because voting intention changes dependent upon the voting system you use. |
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