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Post by lommack on Dec 8, 2016 14:57:28 GMT
The paranoia is laughable. Judges mulling over the process (not a jot to do with the decision) are labelled enemies of the state. Anyone wanting Parliament to oversee the terms rather than an unelected Prime Minister is brandished undemocratic! You couldn't script the utter bollocks that drips from their mouths. It is absolutely unbelievable. As someone said earlier when an MP gets elected everyone has the right to kick them out after 5yrs. This is a one off, no going back, the end! Fair enough, but at least let people have a debate about the type of country we will all end up with after this right wing chest thumping, red, white and blue bollocks has finished. |
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Post by Biblical on Dec 8, 2016 14:59:41 GMT
First of all that's incredibly patronising towards the youth and it's nonsense. Regarding the media the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Daily Star, The Sun and the Daily Telegraph were pro-leave. So two of the most read newspapers, The Sun and the Daily Mail were for leaving. The Daily Mirror, The Guardian and the Financial Times were pro-remain. The Times was relatively balanced. The bald figures produced by researchers at the Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism tell the story: 45% of 928 referendum articles it studied were in favour of leaving while 27% backed the remain case. Some 19% were categorised as “mixed or undecided” and 9% were designated as adopting no position. Not really sure how you come to such a conclusion that there was heavy bias towards remain from the majority of news outlets. I come to that conclusion because television has a reach that is much broader than newspapers and the biggest media outlet in this country, The BBC, was massively biased towards Remain which is quite frankly sickening. Of course there's a strong denial from some, namely those at the BBC, that this wasn't the case but it was so plain to see that it's frightening that anyone could deny it. It's an organisation that is so great in so many ways but is beyond reformation and that is a national tragedy in my eyes. ITV and Channel 4 (especially Channel 4) were also strongly in the Remain camp. In my previous post I commented on the breakdown of the stances of the different newspapers. I get your argument about television being far reaching but I don't think you can be so dismissive of the influence of newspapers when 16 million people read The Sun, that's a pretty large sphere of influence right there not counting the others like the Express and the Daily Mail. The point you make about the bias in television media outlets is very subjective and will differ depending on who you ask, what I would say is that given the overwhelming majority of 'experts' felt that Brexit would be very damaging to Britain it should hardly be a surprise that such stories featured so heavily in the news given that there was a lack of 'experts' coming forward to back remain. You say that I patronise the youth by claiming that EU brainwashing led to the pattern we saw with each ascending age demographic group containing a lower % of remain voters. I strongly believe that, whilst brainwashing isn't the only factor for explaining this pattern, it seems fairly clear to me that several decades of EU policies being enacted with a direct goal of eroding nationalist feelings to strengthen the power of the project was the predominant explanation. Have you got an example of an EU policy that had the direct goal of eroding nationalist feelings? Have you got an example of EU brainwashing which has been able to influence youngsters but not the older generation? edit: I also strongly believe that much of the modern breakdown in community spirit and community pride that causes so much suffering and sees the older generation nostalgically harking back to a time when their areas weren't like this is a direct consequence of EU policies btw! What do you mean by suffering? What do you mean when you say their areas weren't like this?From conjecture alone I can think of many instances where younger voters were strongly in favour of remaining and yet when tasked with explaining their reasoning had no clear idea. That's not to say that many young voters didn't have good reasons for voting remain, I can only speak from my small sample but that is what I experienced. You've said it yourself but that's just pure conjecture, the other side is that a lot older people who voted to leave didn't have a clear idea in their reasoning other than to "keep those bloody foreigners out". I know a lot of people who voted either way who had no clear idea, it's really not fair to single out youngsters like you seem intent on doing.
And whilst we're on the subject of patronising, whilst I'm aware that maybe you thought this was bullshit too, there was so much talk after the referendum of how the older voters have stitched up the young when in actual fact it was the older voters who had lived through Britain's entire history as an EU member that were best placed to make a judgement on whether to stay or leave imo. Two wrongs don't make a right, there's no justification for the patronisation of either the young or the older generation.edit: there was also Cameron's £10m taxpayer funded (that figure is most likely under-reported) booklet campaign Fair point. |
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Dec 8, 2016 15:09:05 GMT
Just for the record Paul Farrelly has helped me and my family on a couple of occasions. He is a genuine man and an excellent MP. He is also one of the few MPs to challenge Rupert Murdoch..owner of the Sun newspaper and it's filthy lies.
But because of Mr Farellys stance on Europe he should be hung drawn & quartered according to some on here.
All I'll say about Brexit is that most of those who voted for this will be ones who suffer the most.
What goes around comes around.
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Dec 8, 2016 15:13:52 GMT
Yes, particularly from you I think a lot of people are getting fairly pissed off with being told what to think and how to behave by the Brexiteer bullies. Over 16 million people voted to remain but it soon became apparent that none of these 16 million would be allowed an opinion, or view, on anything Brexit unless it agreed with the right wing press or racist morons like crappy I actually think it is the complete opposite if I can state my own opinion. I am tired of people who voted to leave being branded as I'll-informed, racist, bigots who have no idea what they are doing and why! Constantly being patronised, constantly being told that the referendum was too vague and there should be a hard or soft 'brexit'... it laughable! A huge number of well informed and intelligent people voted to leave and the public outcry and villification by outlets such as the BBC is unbelievable. There is even talk of a third option to hard and soft exit... and that is do nothing... I have never been abusive or argumentative against anyone who wished to remain, despite being abused by those who i thought better of. People are just as bad on both sides, but more and more people just want a resolution to this as we need stability, including business. I am glad that May has announced the Mar date and not enacted it immediately. It means they can ensure they can plan an effective strategy rather than going in willy nilly! |
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Post by felonious on Dec 8, 2016 15:19:59 GMT
I think a lot of people are getting fairly pissed off with being told what to think and how to behave by the Brexiteer bullies. Over 16 million people voted to remain but it soon became apparent that none of these 16 million would be allowed an opinion, or view, on anything Brexit unless it agreed with the right wing press or racist morons like crappy I actually think it is the complete opposite if I can state my own opinion. I am tired of people who voted to leave being branded as I'll-informed, racist, bigots who have no idea what they are doing and why! Constantly being patronised, constantly being told that the referendum was too vague and there should be a hard or soft 'brexit'... it laughable! A huge number of well informed and intelligent people voted to leave and the public outcry and villification by outlets such as the BBC is unbelievable. There is even talk of a third option to hard and soft exit... and that is do nothing... I have never been abusive or argumentative against anyone who wished to remain, despite being abused by those who i thought better of. People are just as bad on both sides, but more and more people just want a resolution to this as we need stability, including business. I am glad that May has announced the Mar date and not enacted it immediately. It means they can ensure they can plan an effective strategy rather than going in willy nilly! Stop being so reasonable  |
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Dec 8, 2016 16:00:15 GMT
Many of the problems with the labour party are not to do with corbyn, indeed Paul Farrelly's wing of the party are responsible
Anyway he should have voted for it. We may have no plan, but it has to happen.
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Dec 8, 2016 16:27:16 GMT
I actually think it is the complete opposite if I can state my own opinion. I am tired of people who voted to leave being branded as I'll-informed, racist, bigots who have no idea what they are doing and why! Constantly being patronised, constantly being told that the referendum was too vague and there should be a hard or soft 'brexit'... it laughable! A huge number of well informed and intelligent people voted to leave and the public outcry and villification by outlets such as the BBC is unbelievable. There is even talk of a third option to hard and soft exit... and that is do nothing... I have never been abusive or argumentative against anyone who wished to remain, despite being abused by those who i thought better of. People are just as bad on both sides, but more and more people just want a resolution to this as we need stability, including business. I am glad that May has announced the Mar date and not enacted it immediately. It means they can ensure they can plan an effective strategy rather than going in willy nilly! Stop being so reasonable Sorry, it's the german in me that tries to stay logical |
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Post by Skankmonkey on Dec 8, 2016 16:57:20 GMT
I have largely come round to the opinion that the matter needs to be resolved as quickly as possible. Any shock economic damage is probably outweighed by the damage accrued by ongoing uncertainty.
What is worrying me more now is political instability generated by impatience with the length of time the democratic process will take to deliver. There is ages to go yet and extreme voices are just waiting to take advantage.
I think decent minded folk on either side of the debate and of whatever political persuasion will soon need to bury the hatchet and be prepared to stand together in defence of traditional British liberal democracy and values.
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 8, 2016 17:19:25 GMT
I have largely come round to the opinion that the matter needs to be resolved as quickly as possible. Any shock economic damage is probably outweighed by the damage accrued by ongoing uncertainty. What is worrying me more now is political instability generated by impatience with the length of time the democratic process will take to deliver. There is ages to go yet and extreme voices are just waiting to take advantage. I think decent minded folk on either side of the debate and of whatever political persuasion will soon need to bury the hatchet and be prepared to stand together in defence of traditional British liberal democracy and values. It's certainly giving cnuts the limelight. Me excluded of course |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2016 17:43:46 GMT
Just for the record Paul Farrelly has helped me and my family on a couple of occasions. He is a genuine man and an excellent MP. He is also one of the few MPs to challenge Rupert Murdoch..owner of the Sun newspaper and it's filthy lies. But because of Mr Farellys stance on Europe he should be hung drawn & quartered according to some on here. All I'll say about Brexit is that most of those who voted for this will be ones who suffer the most. What goes around comes around. Not that I'm on board with single policy witch hunts like this, but I've been told by multiple sources that he's a dreadful shithouse. |
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Post by Skankmonkey on Dec 8, 2016 18:24:32 GMT
Just for the record Paul Farrelly has helped me and my family on a couple of occasions. He is a genuine man and an excellent MP. He is also one of the few MPs to challenge Rupert Murdoch..owner of the Sun newspaper and it's filthy lies. But because of Mr Farellys stance on Europe he should be hung drawn & quartered according to some on here. All I'll say about Brexit is that most of those who voted for this will be ones who suffer the most. What goes around comes around. Local grammar school boy wot dun good. :-) |
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Post by Skankmonkey on Dec 8, 2016 18:28:39 GMT
I have largely come round to the opinion that the matter needs to be resolved as quickly as possible. Any shock economic damage is probably outweighed by the damage accrued by ongoing uncertainty. What is worrying me more now is political instability generated by impatience with the length of time the democratic process will take to deliver. There is ages to go yet and extreme voices are just waiting to take advantage. I think decent minded folk on either side of the debate and of whatever political persuasion will soon need to bury the hatchet and be prepared to stand together in defence of traditional British liberal democracy and values. It's certainly giving cnuts the limelight. Me excluded of course Agreed. King cnuts. :-) |
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 8, 2016 18:35:04 GMT
Just for the record Paul Farrelly has helped me and my family on a couple of occasions. He is a genuine man and an excellent MP. He is also one of the few MPs to challenge Rupert Murdoch..owner of the Sun newspaper and it's filthy lies. But because of Mr Farellys stance on Europe he should be hung drawn & quartered according to some on here. All I'll say about Brexit is that most of those who voted for this will be ones who suffer the most. What goes around comes around. Oh dear this smacks of sour grapes, what proof do you have to back that statement up ? the EU goalposts moved massively from our vote 40 years ago to join the common market, so I suppose you are correct what goes around comes around.
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Post by Skankmonkey on Dec 8, 2016 18:43:33 GMT
Just for the record Paul Farrelly has helped me and my family on a couple of occasions. He is a genuine man and an excellent MP. He is also one of the few MPs to challenge Rupert Murdoch..owner of the Sun newspaper and it's filthy lies. But because of Mr Farellys stance on Europe he should be hung drawn & quartered according to some on here. All I'll say about Brexit is that most of those who voted for this will be ones who suffer the most. What goes around comes around. Oh dear this smacks of sour grapes, what proof do you have to back that statement up ? the EU goalposts moved massively from our vote 40 years ago to join the common market, so I suppose you are correct what goes around comes around.
And this smacks of crocodile tears. Economic suffering suits your poisonous agenda doesn't it? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2016 18:51:48 GMT
Despite coming from one of the most Leave-heavy constituencies in the UK, voted against Brexit. This is how MPs represent their constituents and how Labour represents their voters. He's been there for 15 years. Too cushy and complacent. Time to get rid folks, instead of voting for anything with your party label. All Labour supporters didn't vote Brexit, so why should he. Are you trying to deflect from the failings of your vote... He is meant to represent the people in his constituency, which he obviously isn't, not his own or parties agenda. We were strongly in favour of brexit and he should respect that. By not standing up for what the people within his constituency want is a bit of a Cunts trick. He should step down in my opinion, it comes to something when your own MP isn't fighting your corner. I repeat, he's a cunt. |
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Post by Skankmonkey on Dec 8, 2016 18:54:52 GMT
I give up...
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Post by lommack on Dec 8, 2016 19:05:43 GMT
All Labour supporters didn't vote Brexit, so why should he. Are you trying to deflect from the failings of your vote... He is meant to represent the people in his constituency, which he obviously isn't, not his own or parties agenda. We were strongly in favour of brexit and he should respect that. By not standing up for what the people within his constituency want is a bit of a Cunts trick. He should step down in my opinion, it comes to something when your own MP isn't fighting your corner. I repeat, he's a cunt. Most people (in my house) wanted to keep a pet giraffe in the back garden (we wanted to call it Trevor), the council wouldn't let us , so I wrote to my MP to complain and he said that he couldn't help. An overwhelming majority of us (in my house) voted for him as well. Why is he not standing up for the people within his constituency? The undemocratic wanker! What a cnut |
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Dec 8, 2016 19:08:03 GMT
Just for the record Paul Farrelly has helped me and my family on a couple of occasions. He is a genuine man and an excellent MP. He is also one of the few MPs to challenge Rupert Murdoch..owner of the Sun newspaper and it's filthy lies. But because of Mr Farellys stance on Europe he should be hung drawn & quartered according to some on here. All I'll say about Brexit is that most of those who voted for this will be ones who suffer the most. What goes around comes around. Oh dear this smacks of sour grapes, what proof do you have to back that statement up ? the EU goalposts moved massively from our vote 40 years ago to join the common market, so I suppose you are correct what goes around comes around.
I don't give a fuck about sour grapes this bloke helped me and my family. That's the point. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2016 19:15:16 GMT
He is meant to represent the people in his constituency, which he obviously isn't, not his own or parties agenda. We were strongly in favour of brexit and he should respect that. By not standing up for what the people within his constituency want is a bit of a Cunts trick. He should step down in my opinion, it comes to something when your own MP isn't fighting your corner. I repeat, he's a cunt. Most people (in my house) wanted to keep a pet giraffe in the back garden (we wanted to call it Trevor), the council wouldn't let us , so I wrote to my MP to complain and he said that he couldn't help. An overwhelming majority of us (in my house) voted for him as well. Why is he not standing up for the people within his constituency? The undemocratic wanker! What a cnut I'll sign your petition. Good Luck with the giraffe. |
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 8, 2016 19:19:14 GMT
All Labour supporters didn't vote Brexit, so why should he. Are you trying to deflect from the failings of your vote... He is meant to represent the people in his constituency, which he obviously isn't, not his own or parties agenda. We were strongly in favour of brexit and he should respect that. By not standing up for what the people within his constituency want is a bit of a Cunts trick. He should step down in my opinion, it comes to something when your own MP isn't fighting your corner. I repeat, he's a cunt. To be fait at least he has stood by his principals whether we like it or not, his leader however is a dyed in the wool hypocrite who turned his back on his own principals to support remain, the voters in Farrelly's constituency should make their feelings known by email, letters etc. then vote him out at the first opportunity.  |
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 8, 2016 19:20:52 GMT
Oh dear this smacks of sour grapes, what proof do you have to back that statement up ? the EU goalposts moved massively from our vote 40 years ago to join the common market, so I suppose you are correct what goes around comes around.
I don't give a fuck about sour grapes this bloke helped me and my family. That's the point.  |
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Dec 8, 2016 19:24:42 GMT
Despite coming from one of the most Leave-heavy constituencies in the UK, voted against Brexit. This is how MPs represent their constituents and how Labour represents their voters. He's been there for 15 years. Too cushy and complacent. Time to get rid folks, instead of voting for anything with your party label. First rate M.P. who voted in the interests of his constituency and constituents! And how does U.K.I.P. represent it's voters? Farage cleared off! James cleared off! Wolff cleared off! Quicker retreats than the Italian Army in WW2! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2016 19:28:18 GMT
He is meant to represent the people in his constituency, which he obviously isn't, not his own or parties agenda. We were strongly in favour of brexit and he should respect that. By not standing up for what the people within his constituency want is a bit of a Cunts trick. He should step down in my opinion, it comes to something when your own MP isn't fighting your corner. I repeat, he's a cunt. To be fait at least he has stood by his principals whether we like it or not, his leader however is a dyed in the wool hypocrite who turned his back on his own principals to support remain, the voters in Farrelly's constituency should make their feelings known by email, letters etc. then vote him out at the first opportunity. To be honest, i have changed my view on many things in the last year, so i won't hold jezza against changing his. I won't be voting for him anyway, so he is pretty much irrelevant to me. Farrelly may have stuck by his principles, but he should be sticking by the people who back him. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2016 19:32:21 GMT
Despite coming from one of the most Leave-heavy constituencies in the UK, voted against Brexit. This is how MPs represent their constituents and how Labour represents their voters. He's been there for 15 years. Too cushy and complacent. Time to get rid folks, instead of voting for anything with your party label. First rate M.P. who voted in the interests of his constituency and constituents! And how does U.K.I.P. represent it's voters? Farage cleared off! James cleared off! Wolff cleared off! Quicker retreats than the Italian Army in WW2! Fucking hell have UKIP gone now as well. Everyone's leaving. Oh well, I'll get over it. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 8, 2016 20:27:28 GMT
Oh dear this smacks of sour grapes, what proof do you have to back that statement up ? the EU goalposts moved massively from our vote 40 years ago to join the common market, so I suppose you are correct what goes around comes around.
I don't give a fuck about sour grapes this bloke helped me and my family. That's the point. That's his job. He's not doing you a favour. That's what cost 'us' about £180,000 for 2015-16. Farrelly expenses |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 8, 2016 20:28:25 GMT
Yes, particularly from you I think a lot of people are getting fairly pissed off with being told what to think and how to behave by the Brexiteer bullies. Over 16 million people voted to remain but it soon became apparent that none of these 16 million would be allowed an opinion, or view, on anything Brexit unless it agreed with the right wing press or racist morons like crappy There was a vote, more voted out than in, it's that simple. I have no problem with anyone who voted in, and indeed some cracking posters on here and a few friends of mine held that view. My problem is that it was a clear result and people did know what they wanted, whether you agree with them or not. Don't give people a vote and then say "ah, but.....". I am really proud to have voted out, and I did it without the instigation of the right wing press! |
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Post by lommack on Dec 8, 2016 21:01:23 GMT
I think a lot of people are getting fairly pissed off with being told what to think and how to behave by the Brexiteer bullies. Over 16 million people voted to remain but it soon became apparent that none of these 16 million would be allowed an opinion, or view, on anything Brexit unless it agreed with the right wing press or racist morons like crappy There was a vote, more voted out than in, it's that simple. I have no problem with anyone who voted in, and indeed some cracking posters on here and a few friends of mine held that view. My problem is that it was a clear result and people did know what they wanted, whether you agree with them or not. Don't give people a vote and then say "ah, but.....". I am really proud to have voted out, and I did it without the instigation of the right wing press! It's not about voting out, that's the result and that is what should happen, What worries me is the total shut down of any debate about how we are going to leave. Anybody that dares to raise any concerns is immediately labeled as a remoaner, told they are undemocratic and told that they should put up or shut up (this includes Judges, MP's and 49% of the population) We have got an unelected prime minister who is trying to bypass over 200 yrs of democracy to to ensure that her version of brexit is enacted and she is expecting to do this without telling us one fucking detail of what she is negotiating. This is simply not right, I expect my MP to question everything because every decision affects me and my family and I certainly don't want a group of swiveled eyed Tories, in darkened rooms, to do this without any recourse at all. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 8, 2016 21:18:26 GMT
There was a vote, more voted out than in, it's that simple. I have no problem with anyone who voted in, and indeed some cracking posters on here and a few friends of mine held that view. My problem is that it was a clear result and people did know what they wanted, whether you agree with them or not. Don't give people a vote and then say "ah, but.....". I am really proud to have voted out, and I did it without the instigation of the right wing press! It's not about voting out, that's the result and that is what should happen, What worries me is the total shut down of any debate about how we are going to leave. Anybody that dares to raise any concerns is immediately labeled as a remoaner, told they are undemocratic and told that they should put up or shut up (this includes Judges, MP's and 49% of the population) We have got an unelected prime minister who is trying to bypass over 200 yrs of democracy to to ensure that her version of brexit is enacted and she is expecting to do this without telling us one fucking detail of what she is negotiating. This is simply not right, I expect my MP to question everything because every decision affects me and my family and I certainly don't want a group of swiveled eyed Tories to do this, in darkened rooms, without any recourse at all. Yes, some fair points there. It's been horrible and divisive at times, and I hate that. I think the referendum result should be honoured, though, and certain politicians like Nick Clegg are basically trying to overturn it, saying "I know best". That's what I object to. To be honest, though, the whole thing has turned into a farce. What I was trying to say is I respect those who voted in, and the same should hold for Brexiteers. For instance, Skank is a reasonable sort who I believe voted in; I think I am on the same page as him on a lot of things, but I disagreed on this issue. Such is life! |
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Post by desman2 on Dec 8, 2016 21:25:14 GMT
The paranoia is laughable. Judges mulling over the process (not a jot to do with the decision) are labelled enemies of the state. Anyone wanting Parliament to oversee the terms rather than an unelected Prime Minister is brandished undemocratic! You couldn't script the utter bollocks that drips from their mouths. It is absolutely unbelievable. As someone said earlier when an MP gets elected everyone has the right to kick them out after 5yrs. This is a one off, no going back, the end! Fair enough, but at least let people have a debate about the type of country we will end up with after all this right wing chest thumping, red, white and blue bollocks has finished. Sometimes its very difficult to debate with those who's only response is a label, or the latest trendiest ism or phobic. |
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 8, 2016 21:32:17 GMT
It is absolutely unbelievable. As someone said earlier when an MP gets elected everyone has the right to kick them out after 5yrs. This is a one off, no going back, the end! Fair enough, but at least let people have a debate about the type of country we will end up with after all this right wing chest thumping, red, white and blue bollocks has finished. Sometimes its very difficult to debate with those who's only response is a label, or the latest trendiest ism or phobic. If you don't like it get back on the main board, ye'big G babyXx |
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