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Post by starkiller on Dec 8, 2016 4:07:38 GMT
Despite coming from one of the most Leave-heavy constituencies in the UK, voted against Brexit.
This is how MPs represent their constituents and how Labour represents their voters.
He's been there for 15 years. Too cushy and complacent. Time to get rid folks, instead of voting for anything with your party label.
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Post by auntiegeorge on Dec 8, 2016 5:43:38 GMT
Agreed. MPs should be representing the electorate which gave them the gift of political power. Many, many do not, instead opting to further their own aims and agendas.
This is nothing new, however.
On the broader subject of the Labour Party, I believe it is finished for a generation as a political force under Comrade Corbyn's "leadership".
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2016 5:49:51 GMT
Agreed. MPs should be representing the electorate which gave them the gift of political power. Many, many do not, instead opting to further their own aims and agendas. This is nothing new, however. On the broader subject of the Labour Party, I believe it is finished for a generation as a political force under Comrade Corbyn's "leadership". I agree Auntie, but don't mention Jezza or the hordes will descend and tear you to pieces !
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 8, 2016 7:17:53 GMT
Despite coming from one of the most Leave-heavy constituencies in the UK, voted against Brexit. This is how MPs represent their constituents and how Labour represents their voters. He's been there for 15 years. Too cushy and complacent. Time to get rid folks, instead of voting for anything with your party label. All Labour supporters didn't vote Brexit, so why should he. Are you trying to deflect from the failings of your vote...
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yoc
Academy Starlet
Posts: 231
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Post by yoc on Dec 8, 2016 7:24:03 GMT
What a C__t, the arrogance of power, 'I know whats best for you' don't you worry about anything your lifes in my hands and it's all taken care of? Hope he gets what he deserves at the next election?
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 8, 2016 8:08:02 GMT
Agreed. MPs should be representing the electorate which gave them the gift of political power. Many, many do not, instead opting to further their own aims and agendas. This is nothing new, however. On the broader subject of the Labour Party, I believe it is finished for a generation as a political force under Comrade Corbyn's "leadership". I agree Auntie, but don't mention Jezza or the hordes will descend and tear you to pieces ! Don't worry about Jezza, but do worry about this & all the generations to come, that will be torn to pieces by the right wing. Well done Uncle Tom, too little too late...
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 8, 2016 8:11:02 GMT
Despite coming from one of the most Leave-heavy constituencies in the UK, voted against Brexit. This is how MPs represent their constituents and how Labour represents their voters. He's been there for 15 years. Too cushy and complacent. Time to get rid folks, instead of voting for anything with your party label. All Labour supporters didn't vote Brexit, so why should he. Are you trying to deflect from the failings of your vote... A lot of traditional Labour stronghold areas outside of London voted for Brexit, it would therefore follow a hell of a lot of Labour voters did vote for Brexit including Stoke-on-Trent.
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 8, 2016 8:24:35 GMT
All Labour supporters didn't vote Brexit, so why should he. Are you trying to deflect from the failings of your vote... A lot of traditional Labour stronghold areas outside of London voted for Brexit, it would therefore follow a hell of a lot of Labour voters did vote for Brexit including Stoke-on-Trent. Yeah, So many people voted for a half @&$ed, through the looking glass notion, that it was hung at 49% to 51%...
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Post by Dutchpeter on Dec 8, 2016 8:34:19 GMT
His constituency, Newcastle under Lyme voted heavily in favour of leave. He's certainly not representing the views of the majority in the town.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 8, 2016 8:51:08 GMT
Despite coming from one of the most Leave-heavy constituencies in the UK, voted against Brexit. This is how MPs represent their constituents and how Labour represents their voters. He's been there for 15 years. Too cushy and complacent. Time to get rid folks, instead of voting for anything with your party label. Can you really expect the voters so ingrained to vote labour voting anywhere else. And that's the real problem
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2016 9:11:18 GMT
A lot of traditional Labour stronghold areas outside of London voted for Brexit, it would therefore follow a hell of a lot of Labour voters did vote for Brexit including Stoke-on-Trent. Yeah, So many people voted for a half @&$ed, through the looking glass notion, that it was hung at 49% to 51%... Considering the overwhelming odds we had to overcome with several decades of EU funded brainwashing winning over the youth vote and the heavy bias towards remain from the majority of media outlets, plus the disgusting politicisation of the brutal murder of Jo Cox by a lone-wolf madman in the days leading up to the vote let's not forget, that 4% majority was a fucking landslide victory bathstoke. A fair campaign and it would've been much higher.
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 8, 2016 9:56:02 GMT
Yeah, So many people voted for a half @&$ed, through the looking glass notion, that it was hung at 49% to 51%... Considering the overwhelming odds we had to overcome with several decades of EU funded brainwashing winning over the youth vote and the heavy bias towards remain from the majority of media outlets, plus the disgusting politicisation of the brutal murder of Jo Cox by a lone-wolf madman in the days leading up to the vote let's not forget, that 4% majority was a fucking landslide victory bathstoke. A fair campaign and it would've been much higher. 4%!?!
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Post by starkiller on Dec 8, 2016 10:50:25 GMT
Despite coming from one of the most Leave-heavy constituencies in the UK, voted against Brexit. This is how MPs represent their constituents and how Labour represents their voters. He's been there for 15 years. Too cushy and complacent. Time to get rid folks, instead of voting for anything with your party label. All Labour supporters didn't vote Brexit, so why should he. Are you trying to deflect from the failings of your vote... Failed vote? Haha. Remind me of those Remain plans for establishing this 'Reformed EU' they repeatedly promised? Oh, silly me, it would have been all forgotten about by now, had they won.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 8, 2016 11:26:13 GMT
Ken Clarke voted against it and it was the best speech in the house yesterday.
Anyway we're all aware what Brexit means now so it's OK. It means red, white and blue. No reason not to invoke Article 50 with the comfort of that knowledge is there.
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 8, 2016 11:26:19 GMT
All Labour supporters didn't vote Brexit, so why should he. Are you trying to deflect from the failings of your vote... Failed vote? Haha. Remind me of those Remain plans for establishing this 'Reformed EU' they repeatedly promised? Oh, silly me, it would have been all forgotten about by now, had they won. Don't get me wrong Killer, it's all $#!t, lets not forget about that...
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Post by Skankmonkey on Dec 8, 2016 11:28:12 GMT
I've been through this before - but I'll try and make the point again :-)
In OUR system of representative democracy you vote for an MP to represent your interests, NOT to follow your every wish. You give them licence, with your vote, to act and THINK on your behalf for 5 years.
If he/she pisses you off FINE vote them out - that's the deal. No problem!
I believe one of the UKIP leadership candidates (the one with the homosexual donkey issues) was campaigning on a ticket of change towards a "direct" form of democracy where your MP is merely delegated to carry out the wishes of his/her constituents and subject to recall if they disappoint. The problem with such systems is that they lead to a "tyranny of the majority" and not a democracy where everyone's voice gets heard and taken into account.
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Post by cooper67 on Dec 8, 2016 11:56:54 GMT
I've been through this before - but I'll try and make the point again :-) In OUR system of representative democracy you vote for an MP to represent your interests, NOT to follow your every wish. You give them licence, with your vote, to act and THINK on your behalf for 5 years. If he/she pisses you off FINE vote them out - that's the deal. No problem! I believe one of the UKIP leadership candidates (the one with the homosexual donkey issues) was campaigning on a ticket of change towards a "direct" form of democracy where your MP is merely delegated to carry out the wishes of his/her constituents and subject to recall if they disappoint. The problem with such systems is that they lead to a "tyranny of the majority" and not a democracy where everyone's voice gets heard and taken into account. I was just about to post the same SM-when I saw you had done it more eloquently than I could ever do. Perhaps Starkiller should go back to school and learn more about our democracy.
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Post by Biblical on Dec 8, 2016 11:58:38 GMT
Yeah, So many people voted for a half @&$ed, through the looking glass notion, that it was hung at 49% to 51%... Considering the overwhelming odds we had to overcome with several decades of EU funded brainwashing winning over the youth vote and the heavy bias towards remain from the majority of media outlets, plus the disgusting politicisation of the brutal murder of Jo Cox by a lone-wolf madman in the days leading up to the vote let's not forget, that 4% majority was a fucking landslide victory bathstoke. A fair campaign and it would've been much higher. First of all that's incredibly patronising towards the youth and it's nonsense. Regarding the media the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Daily Star, The Sun and the Daily Telegraph were pro-leave. So two of the most read newspapers, The Sun and the Daily Mail were for leaving. The Daily Mirror, The Guardian and the Financial Times were pro-remain. The Times was relatively balanced. The bald figures produced by researchers at the Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism tell the story: 45% of 928 referendum articles it studied were in favour of leaving while 27% backed the remain case. Some 19% were categorised as “mixed or undecided” and 9% were designated as adopting no position. Not really sure how you come to such a conclusion that there was heavy bias towards remain from the majority of news outlets.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 8, 2016 12:03:07 GMT
A lot of traditional Labour stronghold areas outside of London voted for Brexit, it would therefore follow a hell of a lot of Labour voters did vote for Brexit including Stoke-on-Trent. Yeah, So many people voted for a half @&$ed, through the looking glass notion, that it was hung at 49% to 51%... Many of that winning majority were Labour voters, if the majority had been in favour of remain would there have been all this whinging, whining, mard arseing, legal challenges, threats to block the wishes of the majority who cared enough to vote for the future of their country, anti democratic marches etc. ?
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Post by Skankmonkey on Dec 8, 2016 12:13:29 GMT
I've been through this before - but I'll try and make the point again :-) In OUR system of representative democracy you vote for an MP to represent your interests, NOT to follow your every wish. You give them licence, with your vote, to act and THINK on your behalf for 5 years. If he/she pisses you off FINE vote them out - that's the deal. No problem! I believe one of the UKIP leadership candidates (the one with the homosexual donkey issues) was campaigning on a ticket of change towards a "direct" form of democracy where your MP is merely delegated to carry out the wishes of his/her constituents and subject to recall if they disappoint. The problem with such systems is that they lead to a "tyranny of the majority" and not a democracy where everyone's voice gets heard and taken into account. I was just about to post the same SM-when I saw you had done it more eloquently than I could ever do. Perhaps Starkiller should go back to school and learn more about our democracy. Thanks but I wouldn't go that far mate. I'm fairly certain SK gets it perfectly. He's just propagandising, which is fair enough! It's just this notion that MPs are merely ciphers that exist to carry out the will of their constituents. It seems to be a popular misconception and it is just plain wrong. Delegated democracy with the power to recall the MP is another thing altogether and probably a very bad thing in my book. Like binary outcome referenda!
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 8, 2016 12:17:02 GMT
His constituency, Newcastle under Lyme voted heavily in favour of leave. He's certainly not representing the views of the majority in the town. His stance is hardly surprising when you consider his party leader campaigned for remain, a man who by the way has campaigned all his political career to leave the EU, all done from the back benches of course as soon as his feet were turned to the fire Red Jezza completely abandoned his life long principals.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 8, 2016 12:18:50 GMT
Yeah, So many people voted for a half @&$ed, through the looking glass notion, that it was hung at 49% to 51%... Many of that winning majority were Labour voters, if the majority had been in favour of remain would there have been all this whinging, whining, mard arseing, legal challenges, threats to block the wishes of the majority who cared enough to vote for the future of their country, anti democratic marches etc. ? Are you saying that if the result was as close the other way around, Farrage would have just disappeared, UKIP would have disbanded and the sceptics in the Tory party would have stopped their quarter of a century crusade to get us out? Of course they wouldn't and nor should they. Leavers however seem to expect those who voted remain to sit down, shut up and accept what ever type of Brexit is served to them. To not do so I read on the Mail on-line earlier this week is akin to 'collaborating with the Nazi's'!!!
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Post by Skankmonkey on Dec 8, 2016 12:23:02 GMT
Yeah, So many people voted for a half @&$ed, through the looking glass notion, that it was hung at 49% to 51%... Many of that winning majority were Labour voters, if the majority had been in favour of remain would there have been all this whinging, whining, mard arseing, legal challenges, threats to block the wishes of the majority who cared enough to vote for the future of their country, anti democratic marches etc. ? Give over. You know little about democracy and you care even less.
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Post by redstriper on Dec 8, 2016 12:46:41 GMT
I've been through this before - but I'll try and make the point again :-) In OUR system of representative democracy you vote for an MP to represent your interests, NOT to follow your every wish. You give them licence, with your vote, to act and THINK on your behalf for 5 years. If he/she pisses you off FINE vote them out - that's the deal. No problem! I believe one of the UKIP leadership candidates (the one with the homosexual donkey issues) was campaigning on a ticket of change towards a "direct" form of democracy where your MP is merely delegated to carry out the wishes of his/her constituents and subject to recall if they disappoint. The problem with such systems is that they lead to a "tyranny of the majority" and not a democracy where everyone's voice gets heard and taken into account. this the idea that an mp should canvas all of his electorate before making any decision is unworkable, and if he had followed polls and voted accordingly we know they cant be trusted anyway. What counts is what he does now. If he moans about the result and campaigns to get it overturned he should resign as that's would make him at odds with both his constituents and the country as a whole.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2016 13:06:49 GMT
Considering the overwhelming odds we had to overcome with several decades of EU funded brainwashing winning over the youth vote and the heavy bias towards remain from the majority of media outlets, plus the disgusting politicisation of the brutal murder of Jo Cox by a lone-wolf madman in the days leading up to the vote let's not forget, that 4% majority was a fucking landslide victory bathstoke. A fair campaign and it would've been much higher. First of all that's incredibly patronising towards the youth and it's nonsense. Regarding the media the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Daily Star, The Sun and the Daily Telegraph were pro-leave. So two of the most read newspapers, The Sun and the Daily Mail were for leaving. The Daily Mirror, The Guardian and the Financial Times were pro-remain. The Times was relatively balanced. The bald figures produced by researchers at the Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism tell the story: 45% of 928 referendum articles it studied were in favour of leaving while 27% backed the remain case. Some 19% were categorised as “mixed or undecided” and 9% were designated as adopting no position. Not really sure how you come to such a conclusion that there was heavy bias towards remain from the majority of news outlets. I come to that conclusion because television has a reach that is much broader than newspapers and the biggest media outlet in this country, The BBC, was massively biased towards Remain which is quite frankly sickening. Of course there's a strong denial from some, namely those at the BBC, that this wasn't the case but it was so plain to see that it's frightening that anyone could deny it. It's an organisation that is so great in so many ways but is beyond reformation and that is a national tragedy in my eyes. ITV and Channel 4 (especially Channel 4) were also strongly in the Remain camp. You say that I patronise the youth by claiming that EU brainwashing led to the pattern we saw with each ascending age demographic group containing a lower % of remain voters. I strongly believe that, whilst brainwashing isn't the only factor for explaining this pattern, it seems fairly clear to me that several decades of EU policies being enacted with a direct goal of eroding nationalist feelings to strengthen the power of the project was the predominant explanation. edit: I also strongly believe that much of the modern breakdown in community spirit and community pride that causes so much suffering and sees the older generation nostalgically harking back to a time when their areas weren't like this is a direct consequence of EU policies btw! From conjecture alone I can think of many instances where younger voters were strongly in favour of remaining and yet when tasked with explaining their reasoning had no clear idea. That's not to say that many young voters didn't have good reasons for voting remain, I can only speak from my small sample but that is what I experienced. And whilst we're on the subject of patronising, whilst I'm aware that maybe you thought this was bullshit too, there was so much talk after the referendum of how the older voters have stitched up the young when in actual fact it was the older voters who had lived through Britain's entire history as an EU member that were best placed to make a judgement on whether to stay or leave imo. edit: there was also Cameron's £10m taxpayer funded (that figure is most likely under-reported) booklet campaign
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2016 13:10:03 GMT
I've been through this before - but I'll try and make the point again :-) In OUR system of representative democracy you vote for an MP to represent your interests, NOT to follow your every wish. You give them licence, with your vote, to act and THINK on your behalf for 5 years. If he/she pisses you off FINE vote them out - that's the deal. No problem! I believe one of the UKIP leadership candidates (the one with the homosexual donkey issues) was campaigning on a ticket of change towards a "direct" form of democracy where your MP is merely delegated to carry out the wishes of his/her constituents and subject to recall if they disappoint. The problem with such systems is that they lead to a "tyranny of the majority" and not a democracy where everyone's voice gets heard and taken into account. I was just about to post the same SM-when I saw you had done it more eloquently than I could ever do. Perhaps Starkiller should go back to school and learn more about our democracy. Infowars Metropolitan University, YouTube Campus David Icke College, Cambridge /pol/ Poly Pizzagate University So many schools to choose from these days and so little to separate them
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Post by ihaveadream on Dec 8, 2016 13:15:39 GMT
Yeah, So many people voted for a half @&$ed, through the looking glass notion, that it was hung at 49% to 51%... Many of that winning majority were Labour voters, if the majority had been in favour of remain would there have been all this whinging, whining, mard arseing, legal challenges, threats to block the wishes of the majority who cared enough to vote for the future of their country, anti democratic marches etc. ? Yes, particularly from you
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Post by lommack on Dec 8, 2016 13:52:09 GMT
Many of that winning majority were Labour voters, if the majority had been in favour of remain would there have been all this whinging, whining, mard arseing, legal challenges, threats to block the wishes of the majority who cared enough to vote for the future of their country, anti democratic marches etc. ? Yes, particularly from you I think a lot of people are getting fairly pissed off with being told what to think and how to behave by the Brexiteer bullies. Over 16 million people voted to remain but it soon became apparent that none of these 16 million would be allowed an opinion, or view, on anything Brexit unless it agreed with the right wing press or racist morons like crappy
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 8, 2016 14:28:27 GMT
Yes, particularly from you I think a lot of people are getting fairly pissed off with being told what to think and how to behave by the Brexiteer bullies. Over 16 million people voted to remain but it soon became apparent that none of these 16 million would be allowed an opinion, or view, on anything Brexit unless it agreed with the right wing press or racist morons like crappy The paranoia is laughable. Judges mulling over the process (not a jot to do with the decision) are labelled enemies of the state. Anyone wanting Parliament to oversee the terms rather than an unelected Prime Minister is brandished undemocratic! You couldn't script the utter bollocks that drips from their mouths.
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Post by lommack on Dec 8, 2016 14:56:04 GMT
I think a lot of people are getting fairly pissed off with being told what to think and how to behave by the Brexiteer bullies. Over 16 million people voted to remain but it soon became apparent that none of these 16 million would be allowed an opinion, or view, on anything Brexit unless it agreed with the right wing press or racist morons like crappy The paranoia is laughable. Judges mulling over the process (not a jot to do with the decision) are labelled enemies of the state. Anyone wanting Parliament to oversee the terms rather than an unelected Prime Minister is brandished undemocratic! You couldn't script the utter bollocks that drips from their mouths. It is absolutely unbelievable. As someone said earlier when an MP gets elected everyone has the right to kick them out after 5yrs. This is a one off, no going back, the end! Fair enough, but at least let people have a debate about the type of country we will end up with after all this right wing chest thumping, red, white and blue bollocks has finished.
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