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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 5, 2016 21:16:56 GMT
Buyer's remorse, crappy, like a good proportion of people apparently
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2016 21:18:23 GMT
Why should you have a working knowledge about parliamentary procedure to have an opinion of whether we stay in Europe or leave? The arrogance of the self appointed Remainer intelligentsia is staggering. Because if someone doesn't know about how the British legislative body works they almost certainly won't know how the EU legislative body works. If they don't know that (and lots of other things about the EU and how it impacts on us) then they are not qualified to vote on whether we should leave or remain in the EU because they don't understand the EU. No people understand how much money they earn and how far it gets them. They know who is getting a good deal and who isn't. They know every year they get poorer and poorer and being in the EU just seems to be causing them more problems. They know all they need to know about the EU. Can the whole country be wrong? The whole of england and wales apart from london voted brexit. Now life in London might be fantastic, but what about everyone else. So going by what you are saying, the only people capable of voting live in London.
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 5, 2016 21:19:49 GMT
I think that probably includes 90% of the country then, including the remain supporters. Probably right, which is why we have a representative democracy instead of a direct one and the great unwashed don't get to fuck the country up by voting in referendums for zero taxes, the return of the death penalty, and all the other stuff which they think would make the country great again but would in fact utterly shaft it, just like brexit will. Calm down you voted leave as did the majority of "the great unwashed", you should be proud that you along with the majority of actual voters voted to leave the failing EU project to all us Brexit voters including you.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2016 21:21:53 GMT
Why would our queen hand our countries powers to the EU? I think she would have voted brexit if she could have voted. She is our ruler, however i wish she would grow a pair, our royal family should be more vocal. The royals are not allowed to be more vocal you bellend. Learn your fucking history before posting such claptrap. We fought a civil war over this to give parliament the ultimate say so. Which is what the High Court said in its ruling. Fucking hell. No wonder this country is fucked. Sorry capto.
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Post by Titan Uranus on Nov 5, 2016 21:24:12 GMT
Because if someone doesn't know about how the British legislative body works they almost certainly won't know how the EU legislative body works. If they don't know that (and lots of other things about the EU and how it impacts on us) then they are not qualified to vote on whether we should leave or remain in the EU because they don't understand the EU. No people understand how much money they earn and how far it gets them. They know who is getting a good deal and who isn't. They know every year they get poorer and poorer and being in the EU just seems to be causing them more problems. They know all they need to know about the EU. Can the whole country be wrong? The whole of england and wales apart from london voted brexit. Now life in London might be fantastic, but what about everyone else. So going by what you are saying, the only people capable of voting live in London. Again with all due respect. What are you comparing against? We have been in it for forty years. How can anybody sensibly say that things would be or would have been any better out of it.? Nobody knows.
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Post by salopstick on Nov 5, 2016 21:24:41 GMT
Let's just live in a dictatorship then. The great British public are better than some give us credit for With all due respect Salop... I don't think anyone on this message board (including myself of course) could stand up to scrutinization on this subject. My own view was that there should have been an independent, part cross-party, part business, part academic that had a two year remit and then a formal statement of facts and possibilities of stay or remain. Long drawn out bullsh it?? Probably .... but nothing compared to what's gonna happen now mate. The problem with leaving the EU is there is no proper mechanism to leave the EU. You can't discuss terms until you pull the trigger. It was a vote into the unknown. For the majority of voters the unknown was a better proposition
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 5, 2016 21:24:43 GMT
Probably right, which is why we have a representative democracy instead of a direct one and the great unwashed don't get to fuck the country up by voting in referendums for zero taxes, the return of the death penalty, and all the other stuff which they think would make the country great again but would in fact utterly shaft it, just like brexit will. Calm down you voted leave as did the majority of "the great unwashed", you should be proud that you along with the majority of actual voters voted to leave the failing EU project to all us Brexit voters including you. Nah, buyer's remorse, crappy, now that reality is biting. You only have to look at how the pound reacted to the High Court ruling the other day (3 cents up) to see where the country is going after we leave. It ain't gonna be good and it'll be you and me whose fault it was. No-one else to blame but those who voted to leave! The majority of the working class who voted leave (if we accept that) will be the ones who suffer most too. Poor ignorant bastards.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 5, 2016 21:26:25 GMT
With all due respect Salop... I don't think anyone on this message board (including myself of course) could stand up to scrutinization on this subject. My own view was that there should have been an independent, part cross-party, part business, part academic that had a two year remit and then a formal statement of facts and possibilities of stay or remain. Long drawn out bullsh it?? Probably .... but nothing compared to what's gonna happen now mate. The problem with leaving the EU is there is no proper mechanism to leave the EU. You can't discuss terms until you pull the trigger. It was a vote into the unknown. For the majority of voters the unknown was a better proposition Try and be honest for once and answer this. Do you really think the EU was even remotely what most people who voted Leave were protesting about?
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 5, 2016 21:27:07 GMT
Buyer's remorse, crappy, like a good proportion of people apparently Apparently is that the smell of American bullshit, proof of the good proportion please ? I know no one who I have spoken to in the UK who would change their vote on Brexit either way, not sure where you are getting your information from living in the USA
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Post by Titan Uranus on Nov 5, 2016 21:33:53 GMT
With all due respect Salop... I don't think anyone on this message board (including myself of course) could stand up to scrutinization on this subject. My own view was that there should have been an independent, part cross-party, part business, part academic that had a two year remit and then a formal statement of facts and possibilities of stay or remain. Long drawn out bullsh it?? Probably .... but nothing compared to what's gonna happen now mate. The problem with leaving the EU is there is no proper mechanism to leave the EU. You can't discuss terms until you pull the trigger. It was a vote into the unknown. For the majority of voters the unknown was a better proposition Well...if that's the case then good luck. How anybody in this day and age can vote for a journey into the unknown against a relatively stable, caring, open-minded, socially responsible society is totally gobsmacking to me.
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Post by salopstick on Nov 5, 2016 21:38:29 GMT
The problem with leaving the EU is there is no proper mechanism to leave the EU. You can't discuss terms until you pull the trigger. It was a vote into the unknown. For the majority of voters the unknown was a better proposition Try and be honest for once and answer this. Do you really think the EU was even remotely what most people who voted Leave were protesting about? People had all sort of reasons Controlled Immigration The sense of paying into an organisation that they see little personal return The EU gaining more and more power The economy EU wide For me it's about control. We will control our own destiny. What works In Portugal may not work in the U.K. etc. We are different nations and cannot operate under a one size fits all. I'm not bothered about other people's reasons and I'm certainly not going to agree with all UKIPs policies because I believe in one. The EU has seen this coming and was not prepared to give the EU any meaningful concessions. That arrogance will be their down fall
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2016 21:42:15 GMT
No people understand how much money they earn and how far it gets them. They know who is getting a good deal and who isn't. They know every year they get poorer and poorer and being in the EU just seems to be causing them more problems. They know all they need to know about the EU. Can the whole country be wrong? The whole of england and wales apart from london voted brexit. Now life in London might be fantastic, but what about everyone else. So going by what you are saying, the only people capable of voting live in London. Again with all due respect. What are you comparing against? We have been in it for forty years. How can anybody sensibly say that things would be or would have been any better out of it.? Nobody knows. Nobody knows if life will be better, but being able to choose our own path definitely helps. We signed to a trade agreement, it has evolved into something else which was telling us what we can and can't do. Whether that was because of the signing of the lisbon treaty, i don't know. Controlling our own laws should always be a priority.
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 5, 2016 21:43:16 GMT
The problem with leaving the EU is there is no proper mechanism to leave the EU. You can't discuss terms until you pull the trigger. It was a vote into the unknown. For the majority of voters the unknown was a better proposition Well...if that's the case then good luck. How anybody in this day and age can vote for a journey into the unknown against a relatively stable, caring, open-minded, socially responsible society is totally gobsmacking to me. Are you really talking about the EU now that is gobsmacking, relatively stable compared to what ! Syria perhaps
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 5, 2016 21:53:33 GMT
Again with all due respect. What are you comparing against? We have been in it for forty years. How can anybody sensibly say that things would be or would have been any better out of it.? Nobody knows. Nobody knows if life will be better, but being able to choose our own path definitely helps. We signed to a trade agreement, it has evolved into something else which was telling us what we can and can't do. Whether that was because of the signing of the lisbon treaty, i don't know. Controlling our own laws should always be a priority. The Lisbon treaty was forced upon us by Bliar and Co. we had no say in a treaty that waived to many of our own constitutional rights, he reneged on a promise of an EU referendum thus serving the UK one huge shit sandwich, the failure of the EU to make any meaningful concessions to Dodgy Dave tipped the balance, we have voted to regain our sovereignty our right as an independent nation to control our laws our borders and our future, we are a part of Europe we are not owned by Europe simple.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2016 22:28:17 GMT
Nobody knows if life will be better, but being able to choose our own path definitely helps. We signed to a trade agreement, it has evolved into something else which was telling us what we can and can't do. Whether that was because of the signing of the lisbon treaty, i don't know. Controlling our own laws should always be a priority. The Lisbon treaty was forced upon us by Bliar and Co. we had no say in a treaty that waived to many of our own constitutional rights, he reneged on a promise of an EU referendum thus serving the UK one huge shit sandwich, the failure of the EU to make any meaningful concessions to Dodgy Dave tipped the balance, we have voted to regain our sovereignty our right as an independent nation to control our laws our borders and our future, we are a part of Europe we are not owned by Europe simple. Was it brown who signed it? I seemed to remeber a headline on the front of the sun saying we had been forced to join the EU as his final goodbye before the general election. Also, before i get accused of being a thick sun reader, i was doing my paper round at the time.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 5, 2016 23:13:23 GMT
Because if someone doesn't know about how the British legislative body works they almost certainly won't know how the EU legislative body works. If they don't know that (and lots of other things about the EU and how it impacts on us) then they are not qualified to vote on whether we should leave or remain in the EU because they don't understand the EU. I think that probably includes 90% of the country then, including the remain supporters. I'd say more like 99%. Which is why the referendum never should have happened
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Nov 6, 2016 1:37:15 GMT
Wow, three new pages of content since my last visit. Such a surprise to see the progressive regressive left being so (in)tolerant of other peoples opinions again.
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 6, 2016 2:35:57 GMT
So the 4m people who voted for UKIP at the general election didn't want a referendum they just liked Nigels idea to make taxi drivers wear a uniform? Four million people is less than 10% of the population (and I would guess about 15% of the voting-age population). To say the people as a collective wanted a referendum, is not true. Less than 10% of the population did. That 4m wanted a referendum so much they effectively spoiled their ballets by voting UKIP who under first past the post stand little to no chance of winning seats in a general election. Plenty of others obviously stuck with Labour and the Tories.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 6, 2016 2:42:18 GMT
Wow, three new pages of content since my last visit. Such a surprise to see the progressive regressive left being so (in)tolerant of other peoples opinions again. Ha. I was just thinking the same. Had a quiet night with a Chinese and a bottle of wine. Wake up on the sofa to a MOTD rerun and a check on the Oatie only to find the same old, same old. Angry, aggressive and still telling other people why they voted or how they voted was wrong. Hey ho.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 6, 2016 2:52:07 GMT
Four million people is less than 10% of the population (and I would guess about 15% of the voting-age population). To say the people as a collective wanted a referendum, is not true. Less than 10% of the population did. That 4m wanted a referendum so much they effectively spoiled their ballets by voting UKIP who under first past the post stand little to no chance of winning seats in a general election. Plenty of others obviously stuck with Labour and the Tories. That's a great point. In the cold light of day I think many UKIP'ers knew their vote probably wouldn't elect their local MP but they used the chance to voice an opinion on the topic of the day. A massive up swing and the 3rd most votes behind Labour and the Conservatives.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 6, 2016 6:01:26 GMT
Wow, three new pages of content since my last visit. Such a surprise to see the progressive regressive left being so (in)tolerant of other peoples opinions again. Can you repeat that? I couldn't quite hear you over all the tolerence and politeness of that well-known lefty, crapslinger.
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Post by Timmypotter on Nov 6, 2016 7:18:07 GMT
Buyer's remorse, crappy, like a good proportion of people apparently Lol indeed. Where are all these regrexiteers. You're the only one I've come across.
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Post by Timmypotter on Nov 6, 2016 7:24:06 GMT
The problem with leaving the EU is there is no proper mechanism to leave the EU. You can't discuss terms until you pull the trigger. It was a vote into the unknown. For the majority of voters the unknown was a better proposition Well...if that's the case then good luck. How anybody in this day and age can vote for a journey into the unknown against a relatively stable, caring, open-minded, socially responsible society is totally gobsmacking to me. No one put a cross next to 'I'd like to live in a less stable, more closed minded and cruel society'. This is nonsense.
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 6, 2016 7:42:23 GMT
The problem with leaving the EU is there is no proper mechanism to leave the EU. You can't discuss terms until you pull the trigger. It was a vote into the unknown. For the majority of voters the unknown was a better proposition Well...if that's the case then good luck. How anybody in this day and age can vote for a journey into the unknown against a relatively stable, caring, open-minded, socially responsible society is totally gobsmacking to me. Unfortunately Titus, the progressive people got trampled & drowned out by the screams of the mob, braying "Greed is good!"
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 6, 2016 7:43:44 GMT
Because if someone doesn't know about how the British legislative body works they almost certainly won't know how the EU legislative body works. If they don't know that (and lots of other things about the EU and how it impacts on us) then they are not qualified to vote on whether we should leave or remain in the EU because they don't understand the EU. No people understand how much money they earn and how far it gets them. They know who is getting a good deal and who isn't. They know every year they get poorer and poorer and being in the EU just seems to be causing them more problems. They know all they need to know about the EU. Can the whole country be wrong? The whole of england and wales apart from london voted brexit. Now life in London might be fantastic, but what about everyone else. So going by what you are saying, the only people capable of voting live in London. You're post has demonstrated entirely why we never should have had a referendum on an issue 99.99% of the population do not fully understand. I am not having a go at you, i include myself and everyone else who is not an EU lawyer as whilst I have studied EU law I do not know the complexities. The politicians are proving they know very little about it too.
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Post by Timmypotter on Nov 6, 2016 8:06:37 GMT
No people understand how much money they earn and how far it gets them. They know who is getting a good deal and who isn't. They know every year they get poorer and poorer and being in the EU just seems to be causing them more problems. They know all they need to know about the EU. Can the whole country be wrong? The whole of england and wales apart from london voted brexit. Now life in London might be fantastic, but what about everyone else. So going by what you are saying, the only people capable of voting live in London. You're post has demonstrated entirely why we never should have had a referendum on an issue 99.99% of the population do not fully understand. I am not having a go at you, i include myself and everyone else who is not an EU lawyer as whilst I have studied EU law I do not know the complexities. The politicians are proving they know very little about it too. You really don't need to be a lawyer to understand that principles of democracy and self-governance were being irrevocably eroded by our membership of the EU.
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Post by salopstick on Nov 6, 2016 8:21:38 GMT
Well...if that's the case then good luck. How anybody in this day and age can vote for a journey into the unknown against a relatively stable, caring, open-minded, socially responsible society is totally gobsmacking to me. No one put a cross next to 'I'd like to live in a less stable, more closed minded and cruel society'. This is nonsense. People are making up what leaving the EU actually entails
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Post by starkiller on Nov 6, 2016 8:56:18 GMT
Well...if that's the case then good luck. How anybody in this day and age can vote for a journey into the unknown against a relatively stable, caring, open-minded, socially responsible society is totally gobsmacking to me. Unfortunately Titus, the progressive people got trampled & drowned out by the screams of the mob, braying "Greed is good!" Your patronising knows no bounds - the pair of you. Taking the same condescending, sneering and insulting tone presented on the EU-sponsored BBC since the vote. And true of many other remoaners. I, and many others like me, knew what we were voting for. I won't bore you with a list but immigration was a way down the list. Yes, it's complicated but so is brain surgery, and if someone took a rusty screwdriver to do the job and brain damaged someone, the average person in the street would understand the problem. The EU is not the tool for the job. And it's not even the right job. This sneering all-knowing tone about 'upholding the law' of the past few days from remoaners tells you all you need to know about many of them. Funny how, in their great wisdom, this was never mentioned when they were out waving the flags of tyranny in London, like the EU is some hippie get together. In fact, the average remoaner cannot differentiate between the EU and Europe. The reason it was not mentioned is because it's make it up as you go along from the establishment trYing to blockade the will of the people. Anyway, even the dumbest remoaner should acknowledge the choice was clear - leave or remain. And if this vote is not democratically upheld by parliament, there are serious, serious consequences that far outweigh that original choice.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 6, 2016 9:30:37 GMT
No one put a cross next to 'I'd like to live in a less stable, more closed minded and cruel society'. This is nonsense. People are making up what leaving the EU actually entails I can agree with that. We voted on one thing, to leave the EU. Not on the common market, not on the freedom of movement of people, not on which EU laws to keep or the European Court of Human Rights. Lots of people, on both sides, are using the result to reflect popularity for the Brexit they believe should happen.
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Post by serpico on Nov 6, 2016 9:39:29 GMT
you'd have to be pretty damn naive to think Mrs Hedge fund and co's only motive behind this challenge is a love of parliamentary sovereignty when she's just spent the last 2 years arguing for systematic dismantling of it by continuing to remain in the EU. It's an obvious move to block, delay, fudge Brexit and somewhere lurking in the back shadows of this move is the likes of Tony Blair and his corporate pay masters who absolutely adore the european union.
I'm not a tory, but the people voted for this government, they then voted to leave to european union, there's no need for this to go to parliament, the people have already spoken.
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