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Post by Timmypotter on May 7, 2017 7:24:23 GMT
This is true. It is no more or less a 'debating chamber' than the HoP. However, this isn't our parliament's only role. Members can bring a private members bill. If you feel strongly about something you can petition your member of Parliament to raise one for you. Look here - quite a bit of legislation is enacted in this way en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Members%27_Bills_in_the_Parliament_of_the_United_Kingdom Both places are also revisory bodies. They have the power to make amendments to bills which are then passed on for another vote. In this way legislation is honed and refined according to the will of our elected (and unfortunately, in the case of the HoL, unelected) representatives. The EU Parliament has none of these powers. It is simply a talking shop, and its only purpose is to rubber stamp legislation that is passed to it by the EU commission. We don't get to elect commission members and we certainly can't remove them - hence it is led by the drunk ex-PM of a tax haven. The system stinks and, while the EU seems relatively benign at the moment, it is an organisation primed for corruption. The EU Parliament debates and then vote on a Bill. If it's accepted then it becomes law, if it's rejected it does not. Much like the UK Parliament. But they can't make revisions. The commission can keep asking them variations of the same question until they get the answer they want.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on May 7, 2017 7:39:16 GMT
The EU Parliament debates and then vote on a Bill. If it's accepted then it becomes law, if it's rejected it does not. Much like the UK Parliament. But they can't make revisions. The commission can keep asking them variations of the same question until they get the answer they want. True, the EU Commission must then make amendments to try and pass the legislation. Asking variations of the same question until you get the answer you want is a pretty good definition of democracy. The only difference between the EU and UK Parliament is who is asking the question - the system of getting that question passed through parliament is pretty similar.
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Post by Timmypotter on May 7, 2017 7:53:16 GMT
But they can't make revisions. The commission can keep asking them variations of the same question until they get the answer they want. True, the EU Commission must then make amendments to try and pass the legislation. Asking variations of the same question until you get the answer you want is a pretty good definition of democracy. It isn't. This is the reasoning of a sex pest. This is a very big difference. The former is a one way street, the latter a genuine dialogue between equals.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 7, 2017 8:00:49 GMT
He didn't mean the EU as we know it Lol. About as convincing an argument as you lot can make these days, as the car crash proceeds in ultra slow motion! <extends arms out front, waggles hands from side to side and makes retard noises, like the Boothen end responding to a crap chant> Convincing enough...certainly in comparison to the arguments in favour of 'ever closer union' Remind me, when is your great leader, Angela, up for election as leader of the EU?
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on May 7, 2017 8:07:46 GMT
True, the EU Commission must then make amendments to try and pass the legislation. Asking variations of the same question until you get the answer you want is a pretty good definition of democracy. It isn't. This is the reasoning of a sex pest. This is a very big difference. The former is a one way street, the latter a genuine dialogue between equals. Or the latter could be a dialogue where the people who have written the legislation can lie, spread propoganda, and frame the arguement in a specific way? Maybe a bit of distance between the guys making the legislation and the ones checking and approving the legislation is a good thing? Also, a point I forgot to mention, is that the EU Commissioner's are chosen by democratically-elected heads of state. Much like most of the EU system, looked at very simply it can easily be argued that it is anti-democratic. But it's just a different type of democracy than we're used to - not one I particularly prefer, but I do believe it's democratic.
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Post by followyoudown on May 7, 2017 9:12:57 GMT
He didn't mean the EU as we know it Lol. About as convincing an argument as you lot can make these days, as the car crash proceeds in ultra slow motion! <extends arms out front, waggles hands from side to side and makes retard noises, like the Boothen end responding to a crap chant> No need for the vivid description your posts tend to give that impression anyway ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif) If only you had put that much effort into researching your vote.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 7, 2017 9:21:03 GMT
It isn't. This is the reasoning of a sex pest. This is a very big difference. The former is a one way street, the latter a genuine dialogue between equals. Or the latter could be a dialogue where the people who have written the legislation can lie, spread propoganda, and frame the arguement in a specific way? Maybe a bit of distance between the guys making the legislation and the ones checking and approving the legislation is a good thing? Also, a point I forgot to mention, is that the EU Commissioner's are chosen by democratically-elected heads of state. Much like most of the EU system, looked at very simply it can easily be argued that it is anti-democratic. But it's just a different type of democracy than we're used to - not one I particularly prefer, but I do believe it's democratic. "Also, a point I forgot to mention, is that the EU Commissioner's are chosen by democratically-elected heads of state" And therein lies part of the illusion Rip, decisions and policy is made in secret , in corridors, through the Eurogroup and via the Commission...they do indeed sing from the same hymn sheet ...unopposed in pursuit of ever closer union, and , as others have said, decisions rubber stamped by the back slapping, self congratulatory pseudo parliament. Massive contrick
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Post by followyoudown on May 7, 2017 9:26:05 GMT
Lol. About as convincing an argument as you lot can make these days, as the car crash proceeds in ultra slow motion! <extends arms out front, waggles hands from side to side and makes retard noises, like the Boothen end responding to a crap chant> Convincing enough...certainly in comparison to the arguments in favour of 'ever closer union' Remind me, when is your great leader, Angela, up for election as leader of the EU? EU trade surplus for 2016 was $296 billion Germany contributed $280 billion who does the EU and undervalued euro really help. Also in a couple of papers today the European commissions own lawyers have told them theres no legal basis for the €100 billion bill and it is unenforceable I presume this is all over the BBC and Sky.
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Post by harryburrows on May 7, 2017 9:38:57 GMT
Convincing enough...certainly in comparison to the arguments in favour of 'ever closer union' Remind me, when is your great leader, Angela, up for election as leader of the EU? EU trade surplus for 2016 was $296 billion Germany contributed $280 billion who does the EU and undervalued euro really help. Also in a couple of papers today the European commissions own lawyers have told them theres no legal basis for the €100 billion bill and it is unenforceable I presume this is all over the BBC and Sky. The € 100 billion is simply a ransom payment for future funding of the EU in exchange for a trade deal . We should tell them to stuff it and walk away . WTO tariffs work both ways .
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Post by followyoudown on May 7, 2017 10:01:46 GMT
EU trade surplus for 2016 was $296 billion Germany contributed $280 billion who does the EU and undervalued euro really help. Also in a couple of papers today the European commissions own lawyers have told them theres no legal basis for the €100 billion bill and it is unenforceable I presume this is all over the BBC and Sky. The € 100 billion is simply a ransom payment for future funding of the EU in exchange for a trade deal . We should tell them to stuff it and walk away . WTO tariffs work both ways . Absolutely if they had been sensible i'm sure they could have got 20-30 billion for a free trade agreement now they have made it politically impossible to pay anything significant.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 7, 2017 14:10:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2017 14:15:46 GMT
No, farage just said what everyone's been thinking for years
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Post by capto on May 7, 2017 16:36:25 GMT
No, farage just said what everyone's been thinking for years Everybody? Are you including me in that very wide generalisation? To be compared to farage's thinking is the biggest insult you could put on anyone including me! I think I'll make my own mind up - and not be told by Arron Banks what to think!
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Post by The Drunken Communist on May 7, 2017 17:12:51 GMT
No, farage just said what everyone's been thinking for years Everybody? Are you including me in that very wide generalisation? To be compared to farage's thinking is the biggest insult you could put on anyone including me! I think I'll make my own mind up - and not be told by Arron Banks what to think! Anyone? Are you including me in that very wide generalisation? ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/0m0lbCuTEBzaRn6f8QaM.gif)
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2017 17:16:39 GMT
No, farage just said what everyone's been thinking for years Everybody? Are you including me in that very wide generalisation? To be compared to farage's thinking is the biggest insult you could put on anyone including me! I think I'll make my own mind up - and not be told by Arron Banks what to think! Ok. The majority of voters Why do you think anyone is telling me how to think? I've just said farage was saying what people were thinking Do people tell you what to think then?
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Post by followyoudown on May 7, 2017 17:20:53 GMT
No, farage just said what everyone's been thinking for years I thought it was because aĺl leave voters were thick and racist or because of the £350m "lie" on the side of the bus now it's some x files type mind control : manipulation targetting type nonsense by some shadowy company using Facebook or some such rubbish. It confirms what Huddy suspected, something as big as this you'd have thought might be worth mentioning by him though before this article ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/0m0lbCuTEBzaRn6f8QaM.gif) The truth can actually be found on the Farrelly thread with history repeating itself many Labour voters don't like Corbyn but have been ignored and will vote for other parties, the same for immigration for years staunch Labour areas like Stoke, Middlesbrough kept on telling Labour they had issues with immigration, they were patronised or ignored they went elsewhere, no algorithms needed to work that out.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 7, 2017 19:56:33 GMT
The country's future is fucked.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on May 7, 2017 20:00:38 GMT
The country's future is fucked. And you're to blame for it voting for Brexit. Cheers for ruining my country.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on May 7, 2017 21:22:47 GMT
Interesting article. What with Farage getting recently caught visiting Julian Assange in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London, and Assange and Wikileaks blatant help for Trump in the election - you begin to wonder how many links there are between Brexit and Trump. I previously wasn't sure there was many, but the lines seem to be adding up.
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Post by crapslinger on May 7, 2017 21:49:23 GMT
Interesting article. What with Farage getting recently caught visiting Julian Assange in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London, and Assange and Wikileaks blatant help for Trump in the election - you begin to wonder how many links there are between Brexit and Trump. I previously wasn't sure there was many, but the lines seem to be adding up. Hopefully your arithmetic is better than Labour's shadow home secretary, she has more fingers than brain cells.
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Post by crapslinger on May 7, 2017 21:50:35 GMT
The country's future is fucked. And you're to blame for it voting for Brexit. Cheers for ruining my country. ![(drum)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/npB8GAJXy3xXOK55xuYU.gif) touché
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Post by crapslinger on May 7, 2017 21:51:19 GMT
The country's future is fucked. UK or USA
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 7, 2017 23:50:29 GMT
So you think that those Labour voters in Silverdale who voted Leave were brainwashed by a secretive data harvesting company in Canada employed by Alt-Right billionaires? It's odd. On Marr this morning they had a political editor from Buzzfeed who was explaining that twitter is where the politicians and journo's hangout with soundbites and self-publicising pithy remarks. Facebook is where the discussion happens and it's a lot younger and much further to the Left.
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Post by Northy on May 8, 2017 5:04:44 GMT
that youll believe anything you read?
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 8, 2017 9:26:29 GMT
Tonight 19.30 BBC1 - Panorama - What Facebook Knows About You......
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Post by followyoudown on May 8, 2017 9:55:41 GMT
Tonight 19.30 BBC1 - Panorama - What Facebook Knows About You...... I can answer that one, fuck all as I don't do Facebook.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 8, 2017 10:03:58 GMT
Tonight 19.30 BBC1 - Panorama - What Facebook Knows About You...... I can answer that one, fuck all as I don't do Facebook. Ha, ha nor do I but I haven't got the heart to tell Huddy
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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 8, 2017 10:28:19 GMT
Given Macron's election and Merkel's ( forthcoming ) re-election I don't think that there will be a Brexit "deal" so the sooner we go to WHO rules or otherwise the better, imho.The EU have little to lose, given the ultimate consequences of not having the UK's financial contribution to the project towards political union.Europeaan business potentially does have much to lose, so it may amount to the strength of the negotiators . The blame for the failure of the negotiations will be played out in the media, I guess that the Remainers already have decided that it is our fault....for me, all the threats to make it difficult have come from the EU
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2017 10:28:57 GMT
I can answer that one, fuck all as I don't do Facebook. Ha, ha nor do I but I haven't got the heart to tell Huddy Nor me or millions of pensioners who voted to leave ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif)
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Post by thevoid on May 8, 2017 10:42:26 GMT
So you think that those Labour voters in Silverdale who voted Leave were brainwashed by a secretive data harvesting company in Canada employed by Alt-Right billionaires? It's odd. On Marr this morning they had a political editor from Buzzfeed who was explaining that twitter is where the politicians and journo's hangout with soundbites and self-publicising pithy remarks. Facebook is where the discussion happens and it's a lot younger and much further to the Left. Buzzfeed has a political editor? Last time I looked on there the lead article was something along the lines of 'Create us a pizza and we'll tell you which Disney character you are'. Peston it fucking isn't.
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