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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 3, 2016 11:28:26 GMT
Cheers foster, not nearly enough for a top ten manager, in my opinion. tbf with our resources and spending we should be a top 10 side regardless of who is manager With all due respect, that is one of the daftest comments I have read on this board for a long time. ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/4tzqvp1fxEemag_TAXLJ.gif)
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Post by ryan4england on Jun 3, 2016 11:48:46 GMT
tbf with our resources and spending we should be a top 10 side regardless of who is manager With all due respect, that is one of the daftest comments I have read on this board for a long time. ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/4tzqvp1fxEemag_TAXLJ.gif) I don't think it is, an established premiership club 8 years in with sensible owners that back their manager with big funds (for a midtable club). There's something wrong if a manager can't achieve a mid table finish, especially the second longest serving in the league. It should be the very minimum expectation, imo
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Post by ryan4england on Jun 3, 2016 12:17:45 GMT
It doesn't matter how it's buttered up we are a mid table club that finished in mid table?
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 3, 2016 13:31:38 GMT
With all due respect, that is one of the daftest comments I have read on this board for a long time. ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/4tzqvp1fxEemag_TAXLJ.gif) I don't think it is, an established premiership club 8 years in with sensible owners that back their manager with big funds (for a midtable club). There's something wrong if a manager can't achieve a mid table finish, especially the second longest serving in the league. It should be the very minimum expectation, imo Any Premier League club, to survive for any length of time needs, sensible owners and a sensible manager who is a good "fit" for that particular club. All Premier League clubs (by definition) have plenty of income. Take three examples: Newcastle - dodgy owner + plenty of spend + poor manager = relegation candidates. Get a better manager and he turns things round but has been employed too late to save them from relegation. Sunderland - decent owner + plenty of spend + poor manager = relegation candidates. Get a better manager in good time and he saves them from relegation. Cheslea - rich owner + oodles of cash + charismatic manager - works for a while and then he falls out with players and staff and team finds itself in relegation form. Sack manager - get a manager who is a better "fit" and results improve leaving them in mid table just below the mighty Stoke City. In each of these three cases: # The owner stayed the same. # Plenty of money was spent # A manager with problems was exchanged for a better manager - and results improved
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Post by ryan4england on Jun 3, 2016 14:23:54 GMT
I don't think it is, an established premiership club 8 years in with sensible owners that back their manager with big funds (for a midtable club). There's something wrong if a manager can't achieve a mid table finish, especially the second longest serving in the league. It should be the very minimum expectation, imo Any Premier League club, to survive for any length of time needs, sensible owners and a sensible manager who is a good "fit" for that particular club. All Premier League clubs (by definition) have plenty of income. Take three examples: Newcastle - dodgy owner + plenty of spend + poor manager = relegation candidates. Get a better manager and he turns things round but has been employed too late to save them from relegation. Sunderland - decent owner + plenty of spend + poor manager = relegation candidates. Get a better manager in good time and he saves them from relegation. Cheslea - rich owner + oodles of cash + charismatic manager - works for a while and then he falls out with players and staff and team finds itself in relegation form. Sack manager - get a manager who is a better "fit" and results improve leaving them in mid table just below the mighty Stoke City. In each of these three cases: # The owner stayed the same. # Plenty of money was spent # A manager with problems was exchanged for a better manager - and results improved sunderland have been on the ropes for a while with numerous dodgy appointments, allardyce will have them mid table next season will this be classed as a big achievement? No, they are a mid table club it's expected and par for where they should be. Chelsea are a top 4 club who expect to win the league, a freak under performance caused by a manager who upset the squad by undermining and embarrassing publicly his physio and everybody knows it. Will it be classed as any achievement of they finish 3rd, No. Newcastle are a top 5 club in terms of size who have a tit owning the club, they have under achieved for a decade or more because of multiple reasons, from dodgy managers, supporter unrest, owner making wrong descisions. They will come up though next season and their fans will be expecting top half under benitez, will it be a big achievement when they do make top half, No. Scfc have everything in our favour, we're a mid table club who finished mid table with a reliable owner who has given his manager time to make his team his own, backed him with big money signings, the signings who make up a team who many believe to be the best squad we have ever had, it's full of senior pros, no 'kiddies' to be found here. It was upon rock solid foundations left by the previous manager the current manager has been given how much exactly to build on? Scfc a mid table club finish mid table and this is why Coates is rightly quoted as being "satisfied" it's neither under performed or over performed, it's what is minimal expectation, there is certainly no great achievement in a mid table club ran like ours in finishing mid table. Mid table big achievement? No,it's expected and this is why Hughes won't be going to Everton or southampton, he's defiantly not excelled which is what both of those clubs will be looking to do
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Post by sufolkstokie on Jun 3, 2016 15:12:03 GMT
Southampton have refused Everton permission to speak to Ronnie
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 3, 2016 18:17:44 GMT
Any Premier League club, to survive for any length of time needs, sensible owners and a sensible manager who is a good "fit" for that particular club. All Premier League clubs (by definition) have plenty of income. Take three examples: Newcastle - dodgy owner + plenty of spend + poor manager = relegation candidates. Get a better manager and he turns things round but has been employed too late to save them from relegation. Sunderland - decent owner + plenty of spend + poor manager = relegation candidates. Get a better manager in good time and he saves them from relegation. Cheslea - rich owner + oodles of cash + charismatic manager - works for a while and then he falls out with players and staff and team finds itself in relegation form. Sack manager - get a manager who is a better "fit" and results improve leaving them in mid table just below the mighty Stoke City. In each of these three cases: # The owner stayed the same. # Plenty of money was spent # A manager with problems was exchanged for a better manager - and results improved sunderland have been on the ropes for a while with numerous dodgy appointments, allardyce will have them mid table next season will this be classed as a big achievement? No, they are a mid table club it's expected and par for where they should be. Chelsea are a top 4 club who expect to win the league, a freak under performance caused by a manager who upset the squad by undermining and embarrassing publicly his physio and everybody knows it. Will it be classed as any achievement of they finish 3rd, No. Newcastle are a top 5 club in terms of size who have a tit owning the club, they have under achieved for a decade or more because of multiple reasons, from dodgy managers, supporter unrest, owner making wrong descisions. They will come up though next season and their fans will be expecting top half under benitez, will it be a big achievement when they do make top half, No. Scfc have everything in our favour, we're a mid table club who finished mid table with a reliable owner who has given his manager time to make his team his own, backed him with big money signings, the signings who make up a team who many believe to be the best squad we have ever had, it's full of senior pros, no 'kiddies' to be found here. It was upon rock solid foundations left by the previous manager the current manager has been given how much exactly to build on? Scfc a mid table club finish mid table and this is why Coates is rightly quoted as being "satisfied" it's neither under performed or over performed, it's what is minimal expectation, there is certainly no great achievement in a mid table club ran like ours in finishing mid table. Mid table big achievement? No,it's expected and this is why Hughes won't be going to Everton or southampton, he's defiantly not excelled which is what both of those clubs will be looking to do I'm delighted that Peter Coates (and equally importantly, his family) do not show any signs of being as complacent as you appear to be. I'm certainly amongst the glass half full brigade - many accuse me of being over optimistic - but I'm always aware that all clubs outside the top 6 are only ever a poor run of results away from relegation if the owners don't employ the right managers, or bite the bullet and sack the wrong managers, before it is too late. Of the three clubs being relegated this season two have always had a much higher income than us - and we must continually relearn the lessons that relegated clubs can teach us.
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Post by ryan4england on Jun 3, 2016 19:49:59 GMT
sunderland have been on the ropes for a while with numerous dodgy appointments, allardyce will have them mid table next season will this be classed as a big achievement? No, they are a mid table club it's expected and par for where they should be. Chelsea are a top 4 club who expect to win the league, a freak under performance caused by a manager who upset the squad by undermining and embarrassing publicly his physio and everybody knows it. Will it be classed as any achievement of they finish 3rd, No. Newcastle are a top 5 club in terms of size who have a tit owning the club, they have under achieved for a decade or more because of multiple reasons, from dodgy managers, supporter unrest, owner making wrong descisions. They will come up though next season and their fans will be expecting top half under benitez, will it be a big achievement when they do make top half, No. Scfc have everything in our favour, we're a mid table club who finished mid table with a reliable owner who has given his manager time to make his team his own, backed him with big money signings, the signings who make up a team who many believe to be the best squad we have ever had, it's full of senior pros, no 'kiddies' to be found here. It was upon rock solid foundations left by the previous manager the current manager has been given how much exactly to build on? Scfc a mid table club finish mid table and this is why Coates is rightly quoted as being "satisfied" it's neither under performed or over performed, it's what is minimal expectation, there is certainly no great achievement in a mid table club ran like ours in finishing mid table. Mid table big achievement? No,it's expected and this is why Hughes won't be going to Everton or southampton, he's defiantly not excelled which is what both of those clubs will be looking to do I'm delighted that Peter Coates (and equally importantly, his family) do not show any signs of being as complacent as you appear to be. I'm certainly amongst the glass half full brigade - many accuse me of being over optimistic - but I'm always aware that all clubs outside the top 6 are only ever a poor run of results away from relegation if the owners don't employ the right managers, or bite the bullet and sack the wrong managers, before it is too late. Of the three clubs being relegated this season two have always had a much higher income than us - and we must continually relearn the lessons that relegated clubs can teach us. I arn't being complacent, a professional manager should not finish below mid table with these players and squad at his disposal. Again, that's why Coates is "satisfied" and not delighted. Accepting average is becoming average. Hughes hasn't done anything spectacular this season taking into consideration the squad he has at his disposal. We have finished mid table in a below average league, a league which Leicester City won with one of our very own 'rejects' You seem to suggest earlier that a better manager gets better results? I agree, If this is the case shouldn't our biggest signing this summer be a Rafa Benitez with a proven track record of managing some of the biggest clubs and winning things?
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Post by dutchstokie on Jun 3, 2016 21:27:01 GMT
I'm delighted that Peter Coates (and equally importantly, his family) do not show any signs of being as complacent as you appear to be. I'm certainly amongst the glass half full brigade - many accuse me of being over optimistic - but I'm always aware that all clubs outside the top 6 are only ever a poor run of results away from relegation if the owners don't employ the right managers, or bite the bullet and sack the wrong managers, before it is too late. Of the three clubs being relegated this season two have always had a much higher income than us - and we must continually relearn the lessons that relegated clubs can teach us. I arn't being complacent, a professional manager should not finish below mid table with these players and squad at his disposal. Again, that's why Coates is "satisfied" and not delighted. Accepting average is becoming average. Hughes hasn't done anything spectacular this season taking into consideration the squad he has at his disposal. We have finished mid table in a below average league, a league which Leicester City won with one of our very own 'rejects' You seem to suggest earlier that a better manager gets better results? I agree, If this is the case shouldn't our biggest signing this summer be a Rafa Benitez with a proven track record of managing some of the biggest clubs and winning things? The squad that was severly depleted with injuries- that one you mean? ? Perhaps Sir Peter was satisfied considering this fact??? You can dress it up any way you want but one undeniable fact is that constant managerial change has long lasting detrimental effects on a club. Stability has seen us thrive in this league- only 2 managers in nearly a decade is some achievement. Hughes is the man right now.
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Post by Olgrligm on Jun 3, 2016 21:29:10 GMT
They'll end up with Moyes, and it will be very funny.
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Post by ryan4england on Jun 3, 2016 22:12:51 GMT
I arn't being complacent, a professional manager should not finish below mid table with these players and squad at his disposal. Again, that's why Coates is "satisfied" and not delighted. Accepting average is becoming average. Hughes hasn't done anything spectacular this season taking into consideration the squad he has at his disposal. We have finished mid table in a below average league, a league which Leicester City won with one of our very own 'rejects' You seem to suggest earlier that a better manager gets better results? I agree, If this is the case shouldn't our biggest signing this summer be a Rafa Benitez with a proven track record of managing some of the biggest clubs and winning things? The squad that was severly depleted with injuries- that one you mean? ? Perhaps Sir Peter was satisfied considering this fact??? You can dress it up any way you want but one undeniable fact is that constant managerial change has long lasting detrimental effects on a club. Stability has seen us thrive in this league- only 2 managers in nearly a decade is some achievement. Hughes is the man right now. yes that squad of 25 senior pros, now all lmh's players after 3 years in the job. How many managers get the chance to call their whole squad their own these days? Not many. You can say butland was injured but the fact is the number 2 & 3 (both mh signings) wernt up to it. One thing is for sure we were lucky arnautovic didn't get injured this last season because we'd of been in the bottom 3rd if he had. Given a once brilliant goalkeeper is so far past his best it's unreal to think he's at a premiership club still, no disrespect but David James another very good goalkeeper was playing lower league football at his age
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Post by dutchstokie on Jun 3, 2016 22:23:57 GMT
The squad that was severly depleted with injuries- that one you mean? ? Perhaps Sir Peter was satisfied considering this fact??? You can dress it up any way you want but one undeniable fact is that constant managerial change has long lasting detrimental effects on a club. Stability has seen us thrive in this league- only 2 managers in nearly a decade is some achievement. Hughes is the man right now. yes that squad of 25 senior pros, now all lmh's players after 3 years in the job. How many managers get the chance to call their whole squad their own these days? Not many. You can say butland was injured but the fact is the number 2 & 3 (both mh signings) wernt up to it. One thing is for sure we were lucky arnautovic didn't get injured this last season because we'd of been in the bottom 3rd if he had Bottom 3 ??????? I can't take you seriously anymore.
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Post by ryan4england on Jun 3, 2016 22:26:30 GMT
yes that squad of 25 senior pros, now all lmh's players after 3 years in the job. How many managers get the chance to call their whole squad their own these days? Not many. You can say butland was injured but the fact is the number 2 & 3 (both mh signings) wernt up to it. One thing is for sure we were lucky arnautovic didn't get injured this last season because we'd of been in the bottom 3rd if he had Bottom 3 ??????? I can't take you seriously anymore. Never said bottom 3, said bottom 3rd
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 4, 2016 11:24:05 GMT
Sounds like Everton are going to go berserk in the transfer market this summmer. Then again, who isn't?
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Jun 4, 2016 11:27:31 GMT
Sounds like Everton are going to go berserk in the transfer market this summmer. Then again, who isn't? I bet Soton. didn't see that one coming?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2016 11:45:52 GMT
Great move for both parties. Koeman is a fantastic coach and with a bit of cash could really turn Everton around.
Everton are a huge club.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jun 4, 2016 12:07:00 GMT
Not greet news a team below us pulling off a stunning coup and while one above us has a problem they have a pretty good record at managerial change It's going to be a very demanding summer and ferociously competitive league come August . Everton now a real problem for players in our market .
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 4, 2016 12:11:05 GMT
Not greet news a team below us pulling off a stunning coup and while one above us has a problem they have a pretty good record at managerial change It's going to be a very demanding summer and ferociously competitive league come August . Everton now a real problem for players in our market . They were anyway! Just got to hope they don't want Butland this summer!
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Post by numpty40 on Jun 4, 2016 12:15:31 GMT
The squad that was severly depleted with injuries- that one you mean? ? Perhaps Sir Peter was satisfied considering this fact??? You can dress it up any way you want but one undeniable fact is that constant managerial change has long lasting detrimental effects on a club. Stability has seen us thrive in this league- only 2 managers in nearly a decade is some achievement. Hughes is the man right now. yes that squad of 25 senior pros, now all lmh's players after 3 years in the job. How many managers get the chance to call their whole squad their own these days? Not many. You can say butland was injured but the fact is the number 2 & 3 (both mh signings) wernt up to it. One thing is for sure we were lucky arnautovic didn't get injured this last season because we'd of been in the bottom 3rd if he had. Given a once brilliant goalkeeper is so far past his best it's unreal to think he's at a premiership club still, no disrespect but David James another very good goalkeeper was playing lower league football at his age You mean the Arnautovic signed by Hughes for £2m?
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Post by wrighter on Jun 4, 2016 12:48:52 GMT
If he goes, expect Wanyama/Long & Pelle to go too
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 4, 2016 12:52:44 GMT
If he goes, expect Wanyama/Long & Pelle to go too I could see Wanyama going if he buys into the vision and has no offers from Champions League clubs. Long is meant to be off to Spurs isn't he? And he can do way better than Pelle!
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Post by dutchstokie on Jun 4, 2016 13:28:26 GMT
Bottom 3 ??????? I can't take you seriously anymore. Never said bottom 3, said bottom 3rd Apologies...Bottom third is still a ridiculous comment. A simple question for you - what exactly do you want?
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Post by dutchstokie on Jun 4, 2016 13:30:37 GMT
If he goes, expect Wanyama/Long & Pelle to go too I could see Wanyama going if he buys into the vision and has no offers from Champions League clubs. Long is meant to be off to Spurs isn't he? And he can do way better than Pelle! IF Southampton start to sell off the crown jewels, we should look at Tadic. ..... he would service Lukaku well if he goes to Everton though I reckon.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 4, 2016 13:32:40 GMT
I could see Wanyama going if he buys into the vision and has no offers from Champions League clubs. Long is meant to be off to Spurs isn't he? And he can do way better than Pelle! IF Southampton start to sell off the crown jewels, we should look at Tadic. ..... he would service Lukaku well if he goes to Everton though I reckon. Yeah I wanted us to sign Tadic! Can't see Lukaku being at Everton next season though unless Koeman can convince him otherwise?
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Post by ryan4england on Jun 4, 2016 13:48:23 GMT
Never said bottom 3, said bottom 3rd Apologies...Bottom third is still a ridiculous comment. A simple question for you - what exactly do you want? maybe it's ridiculous to you, but maybe it would be more ridiculous for me to bothered what you think? imo an injury to Arnautovic and we'd of easily been in the bottom third, we couldn't score, we could'nt defend. For most of the season the only thing we were decent at was passing a ball to each other, slowly. What do I want? heres another ridiculous few comments for you to digest 1) A team that looks like they give a shit 2) A defence that can defend 3) an attack that gets goals 4) A manager that will change it if it's clearly not working 5) a shit start living up to the theory that it's for the benefit of a strong end to the season, not 4 consecutive 4-0 defeats 6) To sign players that Roy Keane would call players that can play a mans game 7) Strong home form (Again) or even any home form 8) being clued up enough to break down teams instead of being clueless because they dont attack us so we can play the counter Shall I go on?
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Post by dutchstokie on Jun 4, 2016 13:52:07 GMT
Apologies...Bottom third is still a ridiculous comment. A simple question for you - what exactly do you want? maybe it's ridiculous to you, but maybe it would be more ridiculous for me to bothered what you think? imo an injury to Arnautovic and we'd of easily been in the bottom third, we couldn't score, we could'nt defend. For most of the season the only thing we were decent at was passing a ball to each other, slowly. What do I want? heres another ridiculous few comments for you to digest 1) A team that looks like they give a shit 2) A defence that can defend 3) an attack that gets goals 4) A manager that will change it if it's clearly not working 5) a shit start living up to the theory that it's for the benefit of a strong end to the season, not 4 consecutive 4-0 defeats 6) To sign players that Roy Keane would call players that can play a mans game 7) Strong home form (Again) or even any home form 8) being clued up enough to break down teams instead of being clueless because they dont attack us so we can play the counter Shall I go on? Nah you've bored me enough thanks !
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Post by ryan4england on Jun 4, 2016 13:59:00 GMT
maybe it's ridiculous to you, but maybe it would be more ridiculous for me to bothered what you think? imo an injury to Arnautovic and we'd of easily been in the bottom third, we couldn't score, we could'nt defend. For most of the season the only thing we were decent at was passing a ball to each other, slowly. What do I want? heres another ridiculous few comments for you to digest 1) A team that looks like they give a shit 2) A defence that can defend 3) an attack that gets goals 4) A manager that will change it if it's clearly not working 5) a shit start living up to the theory that it's for the benefit of a strong end to the season, not 4 consecutive 4-0 defeats 6) To sign players that Roy Keane would call players that can play a mans game 7) Strong home form (Again) or even any home form 8) being clued up enough to break down teams instead of being clueless because they dont attack us so we can play the counter Shall I go on? Nah you've bored me enough thanks ! How about 9) Big signings making a big impact, 10) Your first 2 Goalkeeper signings doing an apt job like every single one the manager signed before him did. Jesus if that's our answer to 2 & 3 what will be our answer if a bid comes in for Butland? Not so long back we had Begovic, Sorenson & even Butland as our 3!
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jun 4, 2016 14:09:04 GMT
Ryan you did miss the big one
Finishing 9th three years on the spin better than ever In our history for three successive years .
Ok there are hits and misses but in the round there is an improvement . However I do agree there are some ares of concern which need addressing .
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Jun 4, 2016 14:20:04 GMT
Apologies...Bottom third is still a ridiculous comment. A simple question for you - what exactly do you want? maybe it's ridiculous to you, but maybe it would be more ridiculous for me to bothered what you think? imo an injury to Arnautovic and we'd of easily been in the bottom third, we couldn't score, we could'nt defend. For most of the season the only thing we were decent at was passing a ball to each other, slowly. What do I want? heres another ridiculous few comments for you to digest 1) A team that looks like they give a shit 2) A defence that can defend 3) an attack that gets goals 4) A manager that will change it if it's clearly not working 5) a shit start living up to the theory that it's for the benefit of a strong end to the season, not 4 consecutive 4-0 defeats 6) To sign players that Roy Keane would call players that can play a mans game 7) Strong home form (Again) or even any home form 8) being clued up enough to break down teams instead of being clueless because they dont attack us so we can play the counter Shall I go on? No 1. What does a team that looks like they give a shit look like? No 6. The bastion (or another word beginning with bast) of football management that is Roy Keane...you mean players like vinnie jones/terry hurlock.....
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Post by numpty40 on Jun 4, 2016 14:20:08 GMT
Apologies...Bottom third is still a ridiculous comment. A simple question for you - what exactly do you want? maybe it's ridiculous to you, but maybe it would be more ridiculous for me to bothered what you think? imo an injury to Arnautovic and we'd of easily been in the bottom third, we couldn't score, we could'nt defend. For most of the season the only thing we were decent at was passing a ball to each other, slowly. What do I want? heres another ridiculous few comments for you to digest 1) A team that looks like they give a shit 2) A defence that can defend 3) an attack that gets goals 4) A manager that will change it if it's clearly not working 5) a shit start living up to the theory that it's for the benefit of a strong end to the season, not 4 consecutive 4-0 defeats 6) To sign players that Roy Keane would call players that can play a mans game 7) Strong home form (Again) or even any home form 8) being clued up enough to break down teams instead of being clueless because they dont attack us so we can play the counter Shall I go on? I see you mentioned Roy Keane there, possibly as bad a manager you can imagine.
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