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Post by crapslinger on Jul 21, 2016 21:31:00 GMT
What none of us want is him seeing out his contract but he may well do that if no-one comes in for him. He'll take a short term loss in that he'll stay on his current wages and then get a Golden Hello when leaving on a free!!!! I really hope this doesn't happen. We didn't let Begovic or N'Zonzi do this (go into the last year of their contracts), so I am not sure we would allow this to happen with Arnie. That does hinge on someone making a suitably large bid for him, though. We do seem adapt at selling our best players on the cheap you mention two of them above, we then either fail to replace them with better or equally talented players until we realise we miss them (Zonz), then we spend £18m on Imbula plus the costs of the wages of the failed MVG. |
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 21, 2016 22:21:39 GMT
You don't like Arnie, we get it. Hey no not at all I love Arnie but I love Stoke much more and I guess he doesn't Do you think ANY of them do? |
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Post by samba :) on Jul 21, 2016 22:25:03 GMT
I don't buy all this shit about Arnie concentrating on football. If he wants to play for Stoke he would sign up. If he doesn't fuck him off now and move on. We will survive You don't like Arnie, we get it. i like arni and completely agree with the statement its just worded a bit sharply, if you see what I mean |
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Post by baystokie on Jul 21, 2016 22:30:50 GMT
Hey no not at all I love Arnie but I love Stoke much more and I guess he doesn't Do you think ANY of them do? Quite. I'm surprised anyone ever thought that players loved a club in the same way as the supporters. The only ones who possibly might are local lads who were themselves fans when younger (Smithy, Bloor, Wilko etc). Others, such as Jimmy G and Hudson loved the manager they played for rather than the club. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 22:45:22 GMT
I can't believe it's even possible for there not to have been massive interest in Arnie at the quoted sell-on clause figure of £12.5m. I don't blame Stoke for agreeing to a clause for that amount. It was the start of a brave new world at the time we signed him. We got him at a dirt-cheap price, and at the time, £12.5m would have looked like a massive profit whereas now it looks ridiculously low. That's just the way the market's gone, but at the time we signed him, would any of us have thought it was bad business to have agreed to it?
So has there been interest in him? I'm assuming there has, but this interest will have been met with a polite 'not interested' rebuttal from Arnie's camp. Maybe the interest has been kept quiet because the clubs don't want the rejection made public, and Arnie's representatives don't want it known that the only clubs after him are not the sort he's hoping for.
I'm not totally sure what point I'm trying to make. It's late, I'm knackered and there's whiskey on the go. I suppose I'm trying to say I think he'll only leave us if a top club comes in for him, and on the assumption that this hasn't happened by now, I don't think it's going to, and Arnie will soon sign up for us again.
Happy days. Cheers!
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Post by turtlefox on Jul 22, 2016 0:58:07 GMT
Totally agree.The clubs he thought would come calling, haven't. Wonder if his Euros showing has played a part. Not really his fault but your looking for leaders on the bigger stage when it comes to playing for bigger clubs. He didn't show that much when Austria needed it.
He's not as valuable as his brother thinks he is but he is to us.
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Post by Beardy200 on Jul 22, 2016 8:53:24 GMT
What none of us want is him seeing out his contract but he may well do that if no-one comes in for him. He'll take a short term loss in that he'll stay on his current wages and then get a Golden Hello when leaving on a free!!!! I really hope this doesn't happen. We didn't let Begovic or N'Zonzi do this (go into the last year of their contracts), so I am not sure we would allow this to happen with Arnie. That does hinge on someone making a suitably large bid for him, though. If he wants to do it there's very little we can do to stop him |
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Post by Biblical on Jul 22, 2016 9:15:09 GMT
There's still plenty of time left in this transfer window and a 'bigger' club may yet still come in for him. |
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Post by Foster on Jul 22, 2016 9:27:54 GMT
If a player has a release fee that is met by 2 clubs are we obliged to sell to either? Or (which I don't believe), in the case where 2 or more clubs meet the release fee then they can have a bidding war at which point we can choose which one to deal with?
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Post by mrred on Jul 22, 2016 9:48:07 GMT
We knew what waters we'd be treading when we started to buy players of his calibre. He's a mercenary in every sense of the word. If he wanted to be here, he'd have signed months ago. Until we truly push on and consolidate a position higher up the league or become more of an attractive proposition, we'll always be a stepping stone club.
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Post by stokerstayinup on Jul 22, 2016 11:01:24 GMT
We knew what waters we'd be treading when we started to buy players of his calibre. He's a mercenary in every sense of the word. If he wanted to be here, he'd have signed months ago. Until we truly push on and consolidate a position higher up the league or become more of an attractive proposition, we'll always be a stepping stone club. We'll always be a stepping stone club even if we push on and finish higher in the league.Look at Kante leaving the champions to join Chelsea.Tottenham are a massive club compared to us but even they are a stepping stone club to the major powers as the departures of Berbatov ,Modric,Bale etc show. |
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Post by raythesailor on Jul 23, 2016 16:26:56 GMT
Arnie returned to training this week early and played in the Preston game although he was not due back until the trip to the US.
Is this a encouraging sign that things may start to get worked out?
MH and Co will certainly be able to talk to him and will have his ear for several days.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2016 16:32:52 GMT
we truly push on and consolidate a position higher up the league or become more of an attractive proposition, we'll always be a stepping stone club. Reality shock. |
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Post by Sfance on Jul 23, 2016 16:48:32 GMT
From the point of view of most fish, there are always bigger fish in the ocean. It's unlikely that Stoke will ever grow into a blue whale. (Yes, I know that a whale isn't a fish.)
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Post by Billybigbollox on Jul 23, 2016 16:52:54 GMT
From the point of view of most fish, there are always bigger fish in the ocean. It's unlikely that Stoke will ever grow into a blue whale. (Yes, I know that a whale isn't a fish.) Afternoon in the sun and on the cider Sfance?  |
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Post by kustokie on Jul 23, 2016 17:09:03 GMT
We didn't let Begovic or N'Zonzi do this (go into the last year of their contracts), so I am not sure we would allow this to happen with Arnie. That does hinge on someone making a suitably large bid for him, though. If this season follows the same pattern as last year, there's probably an argument to be made that Arnie seeing out his contract won't cost us an enormous amount of money. And if we did lose a few million, that can be absorbed far more easily with the new TV deal. If Arnie leaves it will be for £12.5m max. If he's as influential this season as last you can argue we'll get a bit of that back in prize money if he stays. His wages won't be as high as his replacement either, you'd think (his stock was low when he signed) - so extra savings there. If Arnie stays you imagine it'll probably be his decision too, and he'll be motivated to get the biggest club and highest wages he can for his next contract. I can't see him stinking out the place. That's one theory anyway...  I was a strong advocate of having N'zonzi play out his contract for the same reasons. He couldn't afford to slack off in his final year because he would significantly reduce his value and the caliber of teams he could attract once he was a free agent. He same goes for Arnie. If he stays he'll be in the shop window all season and we should get back the transfer fee in TV money. Bench him or drop him if he plays poorly (which I doubt he will). The only downside is if he plays poorly he takes up a spot in the 25-man squad (low risk, IMO). |
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Post by liamo on Jul 23, 2016 21:44:00 GMT
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Post by unknown182 on Jul 23, 2016 21:53:52 GMT
If he left for a champions league club then fair enough. If he takes a sideways move to somewhere like Everton then i'll be bitterly disappointed after what we've done for him.
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 23, 2016 21:56:26 GMT
If he left for a champions league club then fair enough. If he takes a sideways move to somewhere like Everton then i'll be bitterly disappointed after what we've done for him. Agree! |
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Post by themistocles on Jul 23, 2016 22:02:32 GMT
Mahrez leaves they'll be in for him
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Post by datguy on Jul 23, 2016 22:04:03 GMT
Mirror reporting that Stoke are joining the race to sign Nacer Chadli
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Jul 23, 2016 22:10:44 GMT
Mirror reporting that Stoke are joining the race to sign Nacer Chadli We need to make sure we have a replacement before we let Arnie go. |
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Post by crapslinger on Jul 23, 2016 22:13:21 GMT
If this season follows the same pattern as last year, there's probably an argument to be made that Arnie seeing out his contract won't cost us an enormous amount of money. And if we did lose a few million, that can be absorbed far more easily with the new TV deal. If Arnie leaves it will be for £12.5m max. If he's as influential this season as last you can argue we'll get a bit of that back in prize money if he stays. His wages won't be as high as his replacement either, you'd think (his stock was low when he signed) - so extra savings there. If Arnie stays you imagine it'll probably be his decision too, and he'll be motivated to get the biggest club and highest wages he can for his next contract. I can't see him stinking out the place. That's one theory anyway... I was a strong advocate of having N'zonzi play out his contract for the same reasons. He couldn't afford to slack off in his final year because he would significantly reduce his value and the caliber of teams he could attract once he was a free agent. He same goes for Arnie. If he stays he'll be in the shop window all season and we should get back the transfer fee in TV money. Bench him or drop him if he plays poorly (which I doubt he will). The only downside is if he plays poorly he takes up a spot in the 25-man squad (low risk, IMO). Perfect sense post  no lose situation, no way should we make the same mistake as we did with Zonz sold for feckin peanuts, will we ever learn our lesson  we are so naïve it is frightening, it cost us about £25m to replace Zonz with a player who at the moment the jury is still out on WTF was that about. |
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Post by crapslinger on Jul 23, 2016 22:16:45 GMT
Mirror reporting that Stoke are joining the race to sign Nacer Chadli We need to make sure we have a replacement before we let Arnie go. Agree totally  but we didn't when we sold Zonz did we, will we make the same mistake again ? our management are a complete joke, if we make the same mistake as last summer we need changes pronto. |
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Post by GoBoks on Jul 23, 2016 23:12:11 GMT
I was a strong advocate of having N'zonzi play out his contract for the same reasons. He couldn't afford to slack off in his final year because he would significantly reduce his value and the caliber of teams he could attract once he was a free agent. He same goes for Arnie. If he stays he'll be in the shop window all season and we should get back the transfer fee in TV money. Bench him or drop him if he plays poorly (which I doubt he will). The only downside is if he plays poorly he takes up a spot in the 25-man squad (low risk, IMO). Perfect sense post no lose situation, no way should we make the same mistake as we did with Zonz sold for feckin peanuts, will we ever learn our lesson we are so naïve it is frightening, it cost us about £25m to replace Zonz with a player who at the moment the jury is still out on WTF was that about. It is very amusing to see someone calling it "peanuts" when they're not the ones writing the cheque. We got good money for him and saved a year of wages. And before you get on about replacements, the alternative was to spend a year of wages, let him go for nothing and still need a decent replacement. |
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Post by kustokie on Jul 23, 2016 23:20:42 GMT
Perfect sense post no lose situation, no way should we make the same mistake as we did with Zonz sold for feckin peanuts, will we ever learn our lesson we are so naïve it is frightening, it cost us about £25m to replace Zonz with a player who at the moment the jury is still out on WTF was that about. It is very amusing to see someone calling it "peanuts" when they're not the ones writing the cheque. We got good money for him and saved a year of wages. And before you get on about replacements, the alternative was to spend a year of wages, let him go for nothing and still need a decent replacement. However, it didn't really turn out ok did it? It took us till January to sign a replacement in Imbulla, who had a few good games but didn't exactly set the world on fire. A bit like selling your car in June and then taking the bus to work for six months while you make your mind what to buy. I prefer to run my cars into ground before I replace them, or trade them in for something better. |
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Post by GoBoks on Jul 23, 2016 23:24:45 GMT
It is very amusing to see someone calling it "peanuts" when they're not the ones writing the cheque. We got good money for him and saved a year of wages. And before you get on about replacements, the alternative was to spend a year of wages, let him go for nothing and still need a decent replacement. However, it didn't really turn out ok did it? It took us till January to sign a replacement in Imbulla, who had a few good games but didn't exactly set the world on fire. A bit like selling your car in June and then taking the bus to work for six months while you make your mind what to buy. I prefer to run my cars into ground before I replace them, or trade them in for something better. If you're on the bus route and you're waiting for that extra special car to become available .... nothing wrong with that. Besides, did we really miss him? Yes, we had a crap start - but having N'Zonzi would not have guaranteed we would have done better. After those first 6 games we had a pretty good first half of the season, so I'd argue it was the right decision rather than having a malcontent who we forced to stay in the dressing room. |
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Post by kustokie on Jul 23, 2016 23:31:37 GMT
However, it didn't really turn out ok did it? It took us till January to sign a replacement in Imbulla, who had a few good games but didn't exactly set the world on fire. A bit like selling your car in June and then taking the bus to work for six months while you make your mind what to buy. I prefer to run my cars into ground before I replace them, or trade them in for something better. If you're on the bus route and you're waiting for that extra special car to become available .... nothing wrong with that. Besides, did we really miss him? Yes, we had a crap start - but having N'Zonzi would not have guaranteed we would have done better. After those first 6 games we had a pretty good first half of the season, so I'd argue it was the right decision rather than having a malcontent who we forced to stay in the dressing room. With all due respect, that's complete rubbish. We started poorly, had a purple patch in the middle of the season and ended up playing relegation-pace football. If management had any balls, they'd have sat N'zonzi down and said "look we're not selling you, so get your shit toegther and play out your contract. If you sulk or cause trouble, we'll drop you and you can play in the reserves or stay home". What's wrong with that? |
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Post by GoBoks on Jul 23, 2016 23:44:49 GMT
If you're on the bus route and you're waiting for that extra special car to become available .... nothing wrong with that. Besides, did we really miss him? Yes, we had a crap start - but having N'Zonzi would not have guaranteed we would have done better. After those first 6 games we had a pretty good first half of the season, so I'd argue it was the right decision rather than having a malcontent who we forced to stay in the dressing room. With all due respect, that's complete rubbish. We started poorly, had a purple patch in the middle of the season and ended up playing relegation-pace football. If management had any balls, they'd have sat N'zonzi down and said "look we're not selling you, so get your shit toegther and play out your contract. If you sulk or cause trouble, we'll drop you and you can play in the reserves or stay home". What's wrong with that? Who knows? ...You don't, I don't. The player had asked for a transfer every year he was here. Maybe this year he said "No" I will rather rot than continue to play for you. Point is, the management made the decision that they thought best - with their jobs and bonuses on the line if they got it wrong. Over the season, they did not get it wrong which is why they are in charge and not us amateurs. |
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Post by kustokie on Jul 23, 2016 23:52:56 GMT
With all due respect, that's complete rubbish. We started poorly, had a purple patch in the middle of the season and ended up playing relegation-pace football. If management had any balls, they'd have sat N'zonzi down and said "look we're not selling you, so get your shit toegther and play out your contract. If you sulk or cause trouble, we'll drop you and you can play in the reserves or stay home". What's wrong with that? Who knows? ...You don't, I don't. The player had asked for a transfer every year he was here. Maybe this year he said "No" I will rather rot than continue to play for you. Point is, the management made the decision that they thought best - with their jobs and bonuses on the line if they got it wrong. Over the season, they did not get it wrong which is why they are in charge and not us amateurs. Except for one thing. They got it wrong in my opinion because they failed to bring in a replacement till January and after going out of both cups we totally lost the plot. |
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no lose situation, no way should we make the same mistake as we did with Zonz sold for feckin peanuts, will we ever learn our lesson 
we are so naïve it is frightening, it cost us about £25m to replace Zonz with a player who at the moment the jury is still out on WTF was that about. 
but we didn't when we sold Zonz did we, will we make the same mistake again ? our management are a complete joke, if we make the same mistake as last summer we need changes pronto.
