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Post by partickpotter on Nov 19, 2015 14:45:15 GMT
Some surprising selections in the squad. Patel for Rashid - makes sense in that Rashid will now be heading to the Big Bash so will get to play some cricket. In SA he'll just be carrying drinks as we'll only play one spinner; Ali. If Ali get's injured, we can bring him over. Bell out - it was, sadly, just a matter of time. Compton and Ballance in - even assuming Ballance has fixed that fatal flaw in his technique that saw him trapped behind his crease against a full pitch ball I see him as cover for Taylor at #5, definitely no higher in the order. Compton I reckon will be #3 to provide some experienced cover at first wicket down. A direct replacement for Bell in other words. Footit in - excellent selection. He has to be a first choice for the side though, not just making up the squad. With Stokes, Jordan and Woakes all 4th seamers and a spinner who is really only a second spinner we need a bona fide 3rd seamer in the team. Let's not repeat the selection errors of the West Indies. I'm actually a little disappointed both Woakes and Jordan are there. I'd much rather see another specialist quick bowler (Toppley or Willey for example) in the squad. I suspect Steyn and Morkel will itching to have a crack at Ballance based in the evidence we saw in the summer , as you say I hope he has been putting some time in working on it in the nets otherwise we may see a repeat performance .No spot for either of your " lefties " mate ? I think I may well have been tempted to find a spot for Willey in preference to Jordan . Footit's a leftie! But not a pinko - or not as far as I'm aware. I'm with you on Willey (or Toppley)- as far as the squad goes there is one too many bits and pieces cricketers (meaning not quite good enough to be classed a proper all rounder).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 15:43:30 GMT
I suspect Steyn and Morkel will itching to have a crack at Ballance based in the evidence we saw in the summer , as you say I hope he has been putting some time in working on it in the nets otherwise we may see a repeat performance .No spot for either of your " lefties " mate ? I think I may well have been tempted to find a spot for Willey in preference to Jordan . Footit's a leftie! But not a pinko - or not as far as I'm aware. I'm with you on Willey (or Toppley)- as far as the squad goes there is one too many bits and pieces cricketers (meaning not quite good enough to be classed a proper all rounder). There you have the advantage of me regarding Footit , I know nothing about him really and I can't recall seeing him bowl as I remember ? Bits and pieces all rounders don't fit the bill for me, far better to go with specialists .....Is " pinko " a reference to the ball that will be used in the day night Test perhaps ?
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Post by Okie Stokie. on Nov 19, 2015 16:05:52 GMT
Compton.....
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 19, 2015 16:06:02 GMT
Footit's a leftie! But not a pinko - or not as far as I'm aware. I'm with you on Willey (or Toppley)- as far as the squad goes there is one too many bits and pieces cricketers (meaning not quite good enough to be classed a proper all rounder). There you have the advantage of me regarding Footit , I know nothing about him really and I can't recall seeing him bowl as I remember ? Bits and pieces all rounders don't fit the bill for me, far better to go with specialists .....Is " pinko " a reference to the ball that will be used in the day night Test perhaps ? What else?
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Post by Okie Stokie. on Nov 19, 2015 16:23:16 GMT
Compton!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Okie Stokie. on Nov 19, 2015 16:29:03 GMT
News travels fast even at warp speed.....
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Post by Okie Stokie. on Nov 19, 2015 16:36:08 GMT
..... It's bloody true I tell yer!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 16:48:56 GMT
..... It's bloody true I tell yer!You see Okie , even though it has taken two years my confidence in Nick has been vindicated !
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Post by Okie Stokie. on Nov 19, 2015 17:04:28 GMT
.....Compton got into a lovely position for that delivery, Shame it was after the ball had left him and hit the off-stump and travelled through to the wicket-keeper.
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 19, 2015 17:06:05 GMT
I suspect Steyn and Morkel will itching to have a crack at Ballance based in the evidence we saw in the summer , as you say I hope he has been putting some time in working on it in the nets otherwise we may see a repeat performance .No spot for either of your " lefties " mate ? I think I may well have been tempted to find a spot for Willey in preference to Jordan . Footit's a leftie! But not a pinko - or not as far as I'm aware. I'm with you on Willey (or Toppley)- as far as the squad goes there is one too many bits and pieces cricketers (meaning not quite good enough to be classed a proper all rounder). I think at test level you'd probably count Willey as a bits and pieces player, his bowling isn't probably good enough at the moment although I wouldn't right him off and it'll be interesting to see how he goes at Yorkshire. Woakes has improved and seems to have added just enough pace to stop batsman taking liberties so I wouldn't be surprised if he gets the nod initially.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 17:17:14 GMT
Footit's a leftie! But not a pinko - or not as far as I'm aware. I'm with you on Willey (or Toppley)- as far as the squad goes there is one too many bits and pieces cricketers (meaning not quite good enough to be classed a proper all rounder). I think at test level you'd probably count Willey as a bits and pieces player, his bowling isn't probably good enough at the moment although I wouldn't right him off and it'll be interesting to see how he goes at Yorkshire. Woakes has improved and seems to have added just enough pace to stop batsman taking liberties so I wouldn't be surprised if he gets the nod initially. Well you could put Willey in that category I agree , but England have been using him as an out and out bowler in the ODi games and I think that they see him in that way with the ability to be able to bat a bit ....later on perhaps he may be considered as an all rounder but not at present , possibly his bowling is not test class yet but he's definitely improving ,he may have been worth a shout , I agree it will be interesting to see him at Yorkshire next season .
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 17:18:42 GMT
.....Compton got it a lovely position for that delivery, Shame it was after the ball had left him and hit the off-stump and travelled through to the wicket-keeper. Every batsmen does that on occasions Okie , some more than others
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 19, 2015 17:56:09 GMT
.....Compton got it a lovely position for that delivery, Shame it was after the ball had left him and hit the off-stump and travelled through to the wicket-keeper. Every batsmen does that on occasions Okie , some more than others I sort of feel for Compton as he did look more than competent at times. His problem was his batting instead of getting better the more he played just regressed. His last series against New Zealand was a disaster - not just in the low scores but in his hesitant, nervous approach. He looked anything like a test opener who could be trusted against the Australians. It was harsh, particularly coming off the back of a quite successful tour of New Zealand. But he only had himself to blame. So now he's back. At #3, almost certainly IMO, as a replacement for Bell. Good luck to him. He has a second chance. Hope he takes it because he won't get another.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 18:14:50 GMT
Every batsmen does that on occasions Okie , some more than others I sort of feel for Compton as he did look more than competent at times. His problem was his batting instead of getting better the more he played just regressed. His last series against New Zealand was a disaster - not just in the low scores but in his hesitant, nervous approach. He looked anything like a test opener who could be trusted against the Australians. It was harsh, particularly coming off the back of a quite successful tour of New Zealand. But he only had himself to blame. So now he's back. At #3, almost certainly IMO, as a replacement for Bell. Good luck to him. He has a second chance. Hope he takes it because he won't get another. True enough but that wasn't really why he was dropped ......the concern was having three batsmen who scored at a similar pace at the top of the order in Cook , Compton and Trott.....it was felt that one had to go and it was Compton ,hence Root was promoted up the order ( wrongly in my opinion , although he did get 180 at Lord's ) I'm not sure it's the answer he's almost three years older and the South African attack is a formidable one for any batsman to face up to , I hope he does well , but I would have stuck with Bell for one more series if only for his experience , it may be harsh on Compton and he may find himself cast aside again after a couple of games rather unfairly . It seems a little risky to me to leave out Bell for such an important series when you don't have a ready made or stand out replacement available , Compton certainly isn't that and as we've touched on before Ballance who would be the other option has a technique that does not inspire confidence .
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 19, 2015 18:33:03 GMT
I sort of feel for Compton as he did look more than competent at times. His problem was his batting instead of getting better the more he played just regressed. His last series against New Zealand was a disaster - not just in the low scores but in his hesitant, nervous approach. He looked anything like a test opener who could be trusted against the Australians. It was harsh, particularly coming off the back of a quite successful tour of New Zealand. But he only had himself to blame. So now he's back. At #3, almost certainly IMO, as a replacement for Bell. Good luck to him. He has a second chance. Hope he takes it because he won't get another. True enough but that wasn't really why he was dropped ......the concern was having three batsmen who scored at a similar pace at the top of the order in Cook , Compton and Trott.....it was felt that one had to go and it was Compton ,hence Root was promoted up the order ( wrongly in my opinion , although he did get 180 at Lord's ) I'm not sure it's the answer he's almost three years older and the South African attack is a formidable one for any batsman to face up to , I hope he does well , but I would have stuck with Bell for one more series if only for his experience , it may be harsh on Compton and he may find himself cast aside again after a couple of games rather unfairly . It seems a little risky to me to leave out Bell for such an important series when you don't have a ready made or stand out replacement available , Compton certainly isn't that and as we've touched on before Ballance who would be the other option has a technique that does not inspire confidence . Good call - there was a worry about the one slow pace of the top 3 and Compton drew the short straw. There are so many questions about several of our batting positions: all of them except Cook and Root frankly. Which means, in my book, opportunities! So far, it looks like Taylor is going to get the #5 spot (and well deserve), Hales will get a shot at opening (partly because it's his turn and he's had quite a good ODI series). That leaves number 3. Oh - and number 6. I'm not convinced Stoke's is good enough for that spot. He is more of a 4th seamer / no. 8 bat. But we've got Ali there. Maybe Butler or Bairstow (unlikely) could go at 6, although we seem to have a religious obsession with playing keepers at 7.
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 19, 2015 21:08:18 GMT
I think at test level you'd probably count Willey as a bits and pieces player, his bowling isn't probably good enough at the moment although I wouldn't right him off and it'll be interesting to see how he goes at Yorkshire. Woakes has improved and seems to have added just enough pace to stop batsman taking liberties so I wouldn't be surprised if he gets the nod initially. Well you could put Willey in that category I agree , but England have been using him as an out and out bowler in the ODi games and I think that they see him in that way with the ability to be able to bat a bit ....later on perhaps he may be considered as an all rounder but not at present , possibly his bowling is not test class yet but he's definitely improving ,he may have been worth a shout , I agree it will be interesting to see him at Yorkshire next season . For ODI's his bowling is fine when the batsman have to score off him and play shots in the 10 overs, in tests at the moment they would just sit back and score off at will. Hard to say about his batting he opens for Northants in 20\20 but at the moment England have a 7,8,9 in Ali, Woakes and Rashid all of whom have scored 10+ first class hundreds. My tip is still Sam Curran for next year mind
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 19, 2015 21:17:59 GMT
True enough but that wasn't really why he was dropped ......the concern was having three batsmen who scored at a similar pace at the top of the order in Cook , Compton and Trott.....it was felt that one had to go and it was Compton ,hence Root was promoted up the order ( wrongly in my opinion , although he did get 180 at Lord's ) I'm not sure it's the answer he's almost three years older and the South African attack is a formidable one for any batsman to face up to , I hope he does well , but I would have stuck with Bell for one more series if only for his experience , it may be harsh on Compton and he may find himself cast aside again after a couple of games rather unfairly . It seems a little risky to me to leave out Bell for such an important series when you don't have a ready made or stand out replacement available , Compton certainly isn't that and as we've touched on before Ballance who would be the other option has a technique that does not inspire confidence . Good call - there was a worry about the one slow pace of the top 3 and Compton drew the short straw. There are so many questions about several of our batting positions: all of them except Cook and Root frankly. Which means, in my book, opportunities! So far, it looks like Taylor is going to get the #5 spot (and well deserve), Hales will get a shot at opening (partly because it's his turn and he's had quite a good ODI series). That leaves number 3. Oh - and number 6. I'm not convinced Stoke's is good enough for that spot. He is more of a 4th seamer / no. 8 bat. But we've got Ali there. Maybe Butler or Bairstow (unlikely) could go at 6, although we seem to have a religious obsession with playing keepers at 7. Although the scoring rate was what was believed to be the problem, i've read several times now the then management weren't sure of his character, during one of the NZ away tests he got a blow in the ribs and went for a scan and was told he had a broken rib or ribs so didn't field, it then became clear the ribs were just deeply bruised and he was accused of ducking fielding and Flower apparently tore into him and shortly after was dropped.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 21:47:50 GMT
Good call - there was a worry about the one slow pace of the top 3 and Compton drew the short straw. There are so many questions about several of our batting positions: all of them except Cook and Root frankly. Which means, in my book, opportunities! So far, it looks like Taylor is going to get the #5 spot (and well deserve), Hales will get a shot at opening (partly because it's his turn and he's had quite a good ODI series). That leaves number 3. Oh - and number 6. I'm not convinced Stoke's is good enough for that spot. He is more of a 4th seamer / no. 8 bat. But we've got Ali there. Maybe Butler or Bairstow (unlikely) could go at 6, although we seem to have a religious obsession with playing keepers at 7. Although the scoring rate was what was believed to be the problem, i've read several times now the then management weren't sure of his character, during one of the NZ away tests he got a blow in the ribs and went for a scan and was told he had a broken rib or ribs so didn't field, it then became clear the ribs were just deeply bruised and he was accused of ducking fielding and Flower apparently tore into him and shortly after was dropped. I've read that also ,but he was dropped after the home series against NZ weeks later , I'm not too sure what bearing that injury had on him being dropped , but as you say there may have been questions about his character , it's not something I've heard about , but it could be plausible of course and it may explain why he dropped out of the running for a couple of years or so ? Obviously now the slate has been wiped clean we hope he can prosper in the side .
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 22:02:43 GMT
True enough but that wasn't really why he was dropped ......the concern was having three batsmen who scored at a similar pace at the top of the order in Cook , Compton and Trott.....it was felt that one had to go and it was Compton ,hence Root was promoted up the order ( wrongly in my opinion , although he did get 180 at Lord's ) I'm not sure it's the answer he's almost three years older and the South African attack is a formidable one for any batsman to face up to , I hope he does well , but I would have stuck with Bell for one more series if only for his experience , it may be harsh on Compton and he may find himself cast aside again after a couple of games rather unfairly . It seems a little risky to me to leave out Bell for such an important series when you don't have a ready made or stand out replacement available , Compton certainly isn't that and as we've touched on before Ballance who would be the other option has a technique that does not inspire confidence . Good call - there was a worry about the one slow pace of the top 3 and Compton drew the short straw. There are so many questions about several of our batting positions: all of them except Cook and Root frankly. Which means, in my book, opportunities! So far, it looks like Taylor is going to get the #5 spot (and well deserve), Hales will get a shot at opening (partly because it's his turn and he's had quite a good ODI series). That leaves number 3. Oh - and number 6. I'm not convinced Stoke's is good enough for that spot. He is more of a 4th seamer / no. 8 bat. But we've got Ali there. Maybe Butler or Bairstow (unlikely) could go at 6, although we seem to have a religious obsession with playing keepers at 7. Stoke's for me is a little bit of a puzzling case at the moment , on occasions since the series in the West Indies his batting has looked astonishingly good , he has a wonderful pick up and follow through of the bat which results in some remarkable clean and crisp timing of the ball when he hits the ball very hard indeed , he has looked a high class player on those occasions . Similarly on several other occasions he has looked less so with some quite indudicious shot selection .I think he does have the ability and talent in time to be a regular number six or perhaps at some point possibly at number five ? His bowling however is another thing entirely , as you say fourth seamer is about where he is at the moment , he may improve and he can bowl very quickly .....he's well worth persevering with in my opinion . I think he will be an integral part of the team for a few years barring injury.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 22:06:37 GMT
Well you could put Willey in that category I agree , but England have been using him as an out and out bowler in the ODi games and I think that they see him in that way with the ability to be able to bat a bit ....later on perhaps he may be considered as an all rounder but not at present , possibly his bowling is not test class yet but he's definitely improving ,he may have been worth a shout , I agree it will be interesting to see him at Yorkshire next season . For ODI's his bowling is fine when the batsman have to score off him and play shots in the 10 overs, in tests at the moment they would just sit back and score off at will. Hard to say about his batting he opens for Northants in 20\20 but at the moment England have a 7,8,9 in Ali, Woakes and Rashid all of whom have scored 10+ first class hundreds. My tip is still Sam Curran for next year mind Good points that you make .
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 22:16:22 GMT
Well you could put Willey in that category I agree , but England have been using him as an out and out bowler in the ODi games and I think that they see him in that way with the ability to be able to bat a bit ....later on perhaps he may be considered as an all rounder but not at present , possibly his bowling is not test class yet but he's definitely improving ,he may have been worth a shout , I agree it will be interesting to see him at Yorkshire next season . For ODI's his bowling is fine when the batsman have to score off him and play shots in the 10 overs, in tests at the moment they would just sit back and score off at will. Hard to say about his batting he opens for Northants in 20\20 but at the moment England have a 7,8,9 in Ali, Woakes and Rashid all of whom have scored 10+ first class hundreds. My tip is still Sam Curran for next year mind Both Tom and Sam Curran are superb young cricketers and I can see them both knocking on the door of the England squad next year.....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 22:22:51 GMT
For ODI's his bowling is fine when the batsman have to score off him and play shots in the 10 overs, in tests at the moment they would just sit back and score off at will. Hard to say about his batting he opens for Northants in 20\20 but at the moment England have a 7,8,9 in Ali, Woakes and Rashid all of whom have scored 10+ first class hundreds. My tip is still Sam Curran for next year mind Both Tom and Sam Curran are superb young cricketers and I can see them both knocking on the door of the England squad next year..... Could be mate, refreshingly there is some good young talent around our game at present , it bodes well for the future ......if only we could unearth a couple of spinners though ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 22:26:17 GMT
I'm fairly happy with the squad. I would have taken Zafir Ansari instead of Patel for experience if nothing else, unless Moeen gets injured neither have a chance of playing on South African wickets. I'm not convinced by either Jordan or Woakes either and would have preferred Plunkett as he is a very explosive bowler a la Wood. Footitt deserves a place as he offers something different and is actually bloody quick when he gets into his rhythm. Ballance has a very good record but an obvious flaw to his technique which could get exposed, Compton I feel deserves a recall and based on their record to date I'd have been fairly happy with either him or Carberry although neither blows me away.
Be a tough tour and it's imperative Root, Cook, Anderson and Broad are fit and firing if we've got any chance at all. Got a feeling with give them a real game though as de Villiers and Amla aside their top order looks fragile....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 22:27:48 GMT
Both Tom and Sam Curran are superb young cricketers and I can see them both knocking on the door of the England squad next year..... Could be mate, refreshingly there is some good young talent around our game at present , it bodes well for the future ......if only we could unearth a couple of spinners though ? Ansari is the only spinner I feel could make the step up currently. Good to have you back by the way mate...........
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 22:33:24 GMT
Could be mate, refreshingly there is some good young talent around our game at present , it bodes well for the future ......if only we could unearth a couple of spinners though ? Ansari is the only spinner I feel could make the step up currently. Good to have you back by the way mate........... I have only seen him in a handful of limited overs games mate , unfortunate that he picked up that injury before this tour began ,I'm sure he will be in the frame again next summer . And thank you mate .
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 20, 2015 9:54:36 GMT
For ODI's his bowling is fine when the batsman have to score off him and play shots in the 10 overs, in tests at the moment they would just sit back and score off at will. Hard to say about his batting he opens for Northants in 20\20 but at the moment England have a 7,8,9 in Ali, Woakes and Rashid all of whom have scored 10+ first class hundreds. My tip is still Sam Curran for next year mind Both Tom and Sam Curran are superb young cricketers and I can see them both knocking on the door of the England squad next year..... Yes Tom is England qualified now, I think like Jamie Overton he is a bowler who is useful with the bat rather than the genuine all rounders their brothers Sam \ Craig are respectively. I reckon Sam will be first as he's a leftie and could also be a genuine top class batsman too.
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 20, 2015 9:57:10 GMT
Both Tom and Sam Curran are superb young cricketers and I can see them both knocking on the door of the England squad next year..... Could be mate, refreshingly there is some good young talent around our game at present , it bodes well for the future ......if only we could unearth a couple of spinners though ? Mason Crane is this year's big hope (after Adam Riley the previous year) and with Hampshire releasing Briggs they must see something in him. Short term best hope for England is that Monty gets his head together and finds a new team.
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 20, 2015 10:11:55 GMT
Did anyone see being Kevin pietersen ? After watching that i've changed my opinion slighty I used to think he was a self obsessed, money grabbing mercenary now I think he is a self obsessed, money grabbing mercenary who swears a lot It's amazing for such a "great” bloke how it is always the same 4 or 5 guys (Warne / P Morgan / Gough / Vaughan / KP ) saying what a great bloke KP is. The most telling moment for me was when he was wailing over the KP Genius twitter parody and said do those guys not realise how many tests I WON for them ! No I in team KP but there is a you in Cnut
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Post by BigKahunaBurger on Nov 20, 2015 13:20:01 GMT
185-1 from 33 overs. Roy 98. Root batting beautifully on 61. Let's hope we can buck the trend in this series and kick on through the last 15.
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 20, 2015 14:09:24 GMT
Now 247-4 off 43. Going very well.
Here's a gem of a quote from the BBC web site commentary;
How have they subsided - they scored at 5.3 in the first 30 overs and 6.3 for the next 11.
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