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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 23, 2015 7:02:57 GMT
Or it could be called killing lots of civilians who have nothing to do with extremism and are just living their lives. So do you think hes helped save lives or allowed another 50,000 die unnecessarily .? IS is now a much greater entity . In war civilians do die . But when the Syria vote took place IS were not what it became. After the Iraq disaster can you blame anyone for not wanting to go in killing? Especially when the whole situation was an unknown quantity when the vote happened. |
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 23, 2015 7:05:20 GMT
Milliband failed because of his dithering personality and his lack of clarity . Nothing to do with policy . The electorate didn't trust him on a number of issues but mainly his economic competence It was to do with policy . To base your whole campaign on the state of the national health service was a bad idea especially after Labours record on the economy. He did suffer from a lack of clarity though I'll agree. Sadly , he was always going to lose . Corbyn is 5 times more guaranteed to lose. Labours election strategy wasn't proactive Enough they were simply tried to belittle the Tory record when at the same time denying the mess the last labour government left behind . There was no big idea , no vision , no inspiration . Thatcher and Blair won 3 elections , they sold the idea of real change to the British people |
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 23, 2015 7:06:25 GMT
It was to do with policy . To base your whole campaign on the state of the national health service was a bad idea especially after Labours record on the economy. He did suffer from a lack of clarity though I'll agree. Sadly , he was always going to lose . Corbyn is 5 times more guaranteed to lose. Labours election strategy wasn't proactive Enough they were simply tried to belittle the Tory record when at the same time denying the mess the last labour government left behind . There was no big idea , no vision , no inspiration . Thatcher and Blair won 3 elections , they sold the idea of real change to the British people I agree. It was a generally negative campaign. |
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Post by Gods on Jul 23, 2015 7:19:58 GMT
Yes, I think Labour have to offer some message of hope to the aspirational.
It's no longer enough to appeal to only the working class (I'm not sure they exist in the same way they once did anyway) and the well to do public sector final salary pension brigade who can afford to care.
White van man wants to get on and he votes Tory right now.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 7:20:39 GMT
Or it could be called killing lots of civilians who have nothing to do with extremism and are just living their lives. So do you think hes helped save lives or allowed another 50,000 die unnecessarily .? IS is now a much greater entity . In war civilians do die . If we bomb Syria we are encouraging more western hate imagine America bombing the UK because we have terrorists.....what a state normacot would be....oh, hang on. what do you think Joe public would be saying about the good o'll U.S.of A bombing of Iraq, Afghanistan and Lybia has proven it doesn't work |
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 23, 2015 7:51:29 GMT
So do you think hes helped save lives or allowed another 50,000 die unnecessarily .? IS is now a much greater entity . In war civilians do die . If we bomb Syria we are encouraging more western hate imagine America bombing the UK because we have terrorists.....what a state normacot would be....oh, hang on. what do you think Joe public would be saying about the good o'll U.S.of A bombing of Iraq, Afghanistan and Lybia has proven it doesn't work Welcome home  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 7:54:54 GMT
If we bomb Syria we are encouraging more western hate imagine America bombing the UK because we have terrorists.....what a state normacot would be....oh, hang on. what do you think Joe public would be saying about the good o'll U.S.of A bombing of Iraq, Afghanistan and Lybia has proven it doesn't work Welcome home I'm still in a dark place harry and I hate you all  |
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Jul 23, 2015 7:59:10 GMT
Welcome home I'm still in a dark place harry and I hate you all I hope Julian doesn't turn around and find you on your phone... |
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 23, 2015 8:08:24 GMT
Welcome home I'm still in a dark place harry and I hate you all Sorry to hear it fraise you should consider HRT  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 8:30:26 GMT
I'm still in a dark place harry and I hate you all I hope Julian doesn't turn around and find you on your phone... He'd have a hard job with his head and hands in stocks |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 8:30:57 GMT
I'm still in a dark place harry and I hate you all Sorry to hear it fraise you should consider HRT You should consider switzerland |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 23, 2015 8:34:18 GMT
What may let Corbyn down, unfortunately is his image, which obviously the Press will exploit. Someone who looks like, talks like and as a persona of Blair(was!), Burnham or Chukka are more paletable. It is easy to portay Corbyn as an off the wall eccentric, out of touch with the 'real world'. In addition to the EU question, one policy which may let him down may be his approach to welfare. Actually at this stage I am not sure what that is, but he has been perceived to oppose any sort of welfare cut, even to those who have been labelled as making dependency a lifestyle choice.
In my opinion where the Labour party seemed to start going off track was to lose the focus on 'workers', labour, possibly with the increase in unemployment and traditional 'working class' jobs. This led to a change of emphasis to other 'minority' rights, equality-issues and the pervasive political correctness of language and thinking. Alongside this the Labour MPs became millionaires, aloof and detached from the workers, university educated, champagne and armchair socialists;rebels without a cause.
My father in law, born in 1912 was a carpenter, tradesman and committed trade unionist . He told me about an incident , which was a regular occurrence; He was working on a building site when a gang was seen talking to the boss in the morning. At lunchtime his gang was 'laid off' . The next day he found out that the new gang had taken their place , at 'One and three an hour'. My father in law had been on ' One and six'. 《Old money for the young ones》Thus he was a strong supporter of trade unionism and the Labour party. He wanted to protect the standards of his trade and his hard fought rights.
BUT
He had a strong work ethic.He knew what poverty was , and knew that the only practical way out of it at the time was work. He could not afford an education , but he was a clever man. He had no time for shirkers, the work-shy and the idle, but he had compassion and understanding for the less able. He was a simple family man. The Labour party has forgotten its roots.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 23, 2015 8:37:52 GMT
From the article below; "Corbyn also refused to say whether he would vote for the country to remain in the EU in a referendum next year" If Jeremy FIRST became leader and THEN took a stance of exit from Europe it would be very interesting. It would certainly shake up the Labour party, challenge UKIP, and make the electorate think, giving them an alternative. Of course he would be lambasted from ALL sides, but he was originally elected as an MP on an anti EU ticket and I believe considers himself a Bennite. Even he, as a man of principle, may shy away from this one. gu.com/p/4aqjv?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard |
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 23, 2015 8:41:45 GMT
What may let Corbyn down, unfortunately is his image, which obviously the Press will exploit. Someone who looks like, talks like and as a persona of Blair(was!), Burnham or Chukka are more paletable. It is easy to portay them as off the wall eccentrics, out of touch with the 'real world'. In addition to the EU question, one policy which may let him down may be his approach to welfare. Actually at this stage I am not sure what that is, but he has been perceived to oppose any sort of welfare cut, even to those who have been labelled as making dependency a lifestyle choice. In my opinion where the Labour party seemed to start going off track was to lose the focus on 'workers', labour, possibly ly with the increase in unemployment and traditional 'working class' jobs. This led to a change of emphasis to other 'minority' rights, equality issues and the pervasive political correctness of language and thinking. Alongside this the Labour MPs became millionaires, aloof and detached from the workers, university educated, champagne and armchair socialists;rebels without a cause. My father in law, born in 1912 was a carpenter, tradesman and committed trade unionist . He told me about an incident , which was a regular occurrence; He was working on a building site when one morning when a gang was seen talking to the boss in the morning. At lunchtime his gang was 'laid off' . The next day he found out that the new gang had taken their place , at 'One and three an hour' , . My father in law had been on ' One and six'. 《Old money for the young ones》Thus he was a strong supporter of trades unionism and the Labour party. He wanted to protect the standards of his trade and his hard fought rights. BUT He had a strong work ethic.He knew what poverty was , and knew that the only practical way out of it at the time was work. He could not afford an education , but he was a clever man. He had no time for shirkers, the work-shy and the idle, but he had compassion and understanding for the less able. He was a simple family man. The Labour party has forgotten it's roots. My grandfather was a trade union organiser in the textile mills in Bolton during the 20s he told me things were pretty grim . He also didn't have a good word for the militant unions of the 60s /70s |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 8:42:51 GMT
What may let Corbyn down, unfortunately is his image, which obviously the Press will exploit. Someone who looks like, talks like and as a persona of Blair(was!), Burnham or Chukka are more paletable. It is easy to portay them as off the wall eccentrics, out of touch with the 'real world'. In addition to the EU question, one policy which may let him down may be his approach to welfare. Actually at this stage I am not sure what that is, but he has been perceived to oppose any sort of welfare cut, even to those who have been labelled as making dependency a lifestyle choice. In my opinion where the Labour party seemed to start going off track was to lose the focus on 'workers', labour, possibly ly with the increase in unemployment and traditional 'working class' jobs. This led to a change of emphasis to other 'minority' rights, equality issues and the pervasive political correctness of language and thinking. Alongside this the Labour MPs became millionaires, aloof and detached from the workers, university educated, champagne and armchair socialists;rebels without a cause. My father in law, born in 1912 was a carpenter, tradesman and committed trade unionist . He told me about an incident , which was a regular occurrence; He was working on a building site when one morning when a gang was seen talking to the boss in the morning. At lunchtime his gang was 'laid off' . The next day he found out that the new gang had taken their place , at 'One and three an hour' , . My father in law had been on ' One and six'. 《Old money for the young ones》Thus he was a strong supporter of trades unionism and the Labour party. He wanted to protect the standards of his trade and his hard fought rights. BUT He had a strong work ethic.He knew what poverty was , and knew that the only practical way out of it at the time was work. He could not afford an education , but he was a clever man. He had no time for shirkers, the work-shy and the idle, but he had compassion and understanding for the less able. He was a simple family man. The Labour party has forgotten it's roots. The media will rip him to pieces as they do all who endanger their, and big business friends comfortable lifestyles He is a cunt tho |
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 23, 2015 8:44:18 GMT
From the article below; "Corbyn also refused to say whether he would vote for the country to remain in the EU in a referendum next year" If Jeremy FIRST became leader and THEN took a stance of exit from Europe it would be very interesting. It would certainly shake up the Labour party, challenge UKIP, and make the electorate think, giving them an alternative. Of course he would be lambasted from ALL sides, but he was originally elected as an MP on an anti EU ticket and I believe considers himself a Bennite. Even he, as a man of principle, may shy away from this one. gu.com/p/4aqjv?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboardThe whole issue of Europe is a poison chalice . The choices are both pretty grim |
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 23, 2015 9:02:42 GMT
Sorry to hear it fraise you should consider HRT You should consider switzerland I'll use the traditional method of smoking and bacon rolls |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 23, 2015 9:12:22 GMT
You should consider switzerland I'll use the traditional method of smoking and bacon rolls True Harry, but a choice has to be made, and those putting themselves forward as our political leaders have to make the case , for or against. It is the biggest issue until the referedum , and beyond. |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 23, 2015 9:14:02 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 23, 2015 9:48:34 GMT
Not being on the 'right' I am not speaking for the right Billy, but equally many Labour party supporters/ members ( and it is debatable if they are on the right or left) are apoplectic at the prospect of his nomination. He would split the party, possibly for the better. I hope that he does get elected and is honest about the EU |
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 23, 2015 9:53:12 GMT
Re-nationalisation of the railways ? Why turn the clock back to the bad old days |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 10:14:14 GMT
Welcome home I'm still in a dark place harry and I hate you all What are you doing in the cellar ......turning the bottles on the racks ?  |
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Post by britsabroad on Jul 23, 2015 10:18:06 GMT
The people voted this year, and for the last 30-40 odd years against left wing government. They voted against simply the fear of it this time, so what do you think theyre going to do when a man many times further to the left than Miliband is in the running?
The politics simply does not work in the real world, and thankfully enough voters are bright enough to see it.
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Post by Northy on Jul 23, 2015 10:19:44 GMT
who are these 'most people' that agree, nobody i know has been asked |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 10:22:13 GMT
I'm still in a dark place harry and I hate you all What are you doing in the cellar ......turning the bottles on the racks ? That would only be useful if there was anything left in them |
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Post by stokeharry on Jul 23, 2015 10:24:38 GMT
The people voted this year, and for the last 30-40 odd years against left wing government. They voted against simply the fear of it this time, so what do you think theyre going to do when a man many times further to the left than Miliband is in the running? The politics simply does not work in the real world, and thankfully enough voters are bright enough to see it. Labour's open door immigration policy is the main reason why I and many others didn't and will never vote for them again. What Blair did to this country under Labour was nothing short of treason and he's the most hated PM of all time as far as i'm concerned. |
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Post by Northy on Jul 23, 2015 10:25:14 GMT
I see Tony Bliar was spouting off about him yesterday, so Jeff gets my vote  well he won't because I am not eligible to vote |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 10:33:02 GMT
What are you doing in the cellar ......turning the bottles on the racks ? That would only be useful if there was anything left in them What not a drop ?  |
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 23, 2015 11:24:45 GMT
I see Tony Bliar was spouting off about him yesterday, so Jeff gets my vote well he won't because I am not eligible to vote This might be a personal question BUT...Why can't you vote? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 11:49:52 GMT
I see Tony Bliar was spouting off about him yesterday, so Jeff gets my vote well he won't because I am not eligible to vote This might be a personal question BUT...Why can't you vote? HMP |
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