clan2
Youth Player
Posts: 484
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Post by clan2 on Aug 19, 2015 9:07:58 GMT
Yes we do hate you Tony - and it’s you who took Labour over the ‘cliff edge A very good read from Richard Sudan... Whatever one thinks of Jeremy Corbyn and his politics, the idea that it is Labour supporters who are responsible and the ones to blame for the identity crisis the party now finds itself in, as is being suggested by Blair, is as delusional as his premiership was. www.rt.com/op-edge/312651-corbyn-blair-labour-uk/ |
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Post by derrida1437 on Aug 19, 2015 10:12:45 GMT
Yes we do hate you Tony - and it’s you who took Labour over the ‘cliff edge A very good read from Richard Sudan... Whatever one thinks of Jeremy Corbyn and his politics, the idea that it is Labour supporters who are responsible and the ones to blame for the identity crisis the party now finds itself in, as is being suggested by Blair, is as delusional as his premiership was. www.rt.com/op-edge/312651-corbyn-blair-labour-uk/Love Mr Blair or hate him (it's entirely up to you) the guy won three back-to-back General Elections, one of which was won after the Iraq War with a majority of 66. Mr Blair is Labour's most electorally successful leader. I'm not sure how else, in politics, one is supposed to measure success when the only real gauge of success is getting into government. The point is that Labour Leadership elections are one member one vote and are the most democratic in the British political system as things currently stand. Therefore Mr Blair's opinion is just that - the voice of a man with but one vote - but he knows how to win general elections. |
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Post by desman2 on Aug 19, 2015 10:18:30 GMT
He knows how to jump ship when the shit starts flying as well.
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Post by kbillyh on Aug 19, 2015 10:23:03 GMT
Yes we do hate you Tony - and it’s you who took Labour over the ‘cliff edge A very good read from Richard Sudan... Whatever one thinks of Jeremy Corbyn and his politics, the idea that it is Labour supporters who are responsible and the ones to blame for the identity crisis the party now finds itself in, as is being suggested by Blair, is as delusional as his premiership was. www.rt.com/op-edge/312651-corbyn-blair-labour-uk/Love Mr Blair or hate him (it's entirely up to you) the guy won three back-to-back General Elections, one of which was won after the Iraq War with a majority of 66. Mr Blair is Labour's most electorally successful leader. I'm not sure how else, in politics, one is supposed to measure success when the only real gauge of success is getting into government. The point is that Labour Leadership elections are one member one vote and are the most democratic in the British political system as things currently stand. Therefore Mr Blair's opinion is just that - the voice of a man with but one vote - but he knows how to win general elections. Knows or knew though. I would suggest the latter. |
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Post by derrida1437 on Aug 19, 2015 10:38:53 GMT
Love Mr Blair or hate him (it's entirely up to you) the guy won three back-to-back General Elections, one of which was won after the Iraq War with a majority of 66. Mr Blair is Labour's most electorally successful leader. I'm not sure how else, in politics, one is supposed to measure success when the only real gauge of success is getting into government. The point is that Labour Leadership elections are one member one vote and are the most democratic in the British political system as things currently stand. Therefore Mr Blair's opinion is just that - the voice of a man with but one vote - but he knows how to win general elections. Knows or knew though. I would suggest the latter. That's a subjective point, maybe. If winning general elections is a skill and an art then Mr Blair knows what he's talking about. You don't win a general election after the invasion of Iraq by accident. I'd suggest that takes a degree of political acumen. The point is that Mr Corbyn is a man who has some honestly held views (although his alleged giving of money to holocaust deniers is dubious at best) - a true conviction politician. The argument is that Mr Corbyn has always been in opposition even when Labour were in government. Mr Corbyn's strength as a conviction politician is therefore his real weakness as a party leader, in so much as he has never commanded loyalty, and has been an outspoken advocate of party indiscipline. On that basis it's impossible to vote for Mr Corbyn as leader because, by his own very definition, Mr Corbyn cannot command loyalty and respect from the party as he's never shown any himself. At least that's how the argument goes. |
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Aug 19, 2015 11:33:48 GMT
Knows or knew though. I would suggest the latter. That's a subjective point, maybe. If winning general elections is a skill and an art then Mr Blair knows what he's talking about. You don't win a general election after the invasion of Iraq by accident. I'd suggest that takes a degree of political acumen. The point is that Mr Corbyn is a man who has some honestly held views (although his alleged giving of money to holocaust deniers is dubious at best) - a true conviction politician. The argument is that Mr Corbyn has always been in opposition even when Labour were in government. Mr Corbyn's strength as a conviction politician is therefore his real weakness as a party leader, in so much as he has never commanded loyalty, and has been an outspoken advocate of party indiscipline. On that basis it's impossible to vote for Mr Corbyn as leader because, by his own very definition, Mr Corbyn cannot command loyalty and respect from the party as he's never shown any himself. At least that's how the argument goes. So, as a Labour Party member, do you see a clear vision of the future, presented by any of the other candidates? To me, they represent more of the same blandness and lack of a clear agenda, that Ed Miliband suffered from. Blair's genius, was that he represented a change from old Labour and showed that the party could adapt to a post industrial age. The problem was, it was vacuous, and still is. This vacuousness did not matter then, as all Labour needed to be was different from before, and aspirational. Times have moved on, but the non Corbyn candidates have not. Corbyn is only doing so well, because the other lack substance or credibility. |
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 19, 2015 11:38:54 GMT
This made me smile...  |
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Post by kbillyh on Aug 19, 2015 12:06:48 GMT
Knows or knew though. I would suggest the latter. That's a subjective point, maybe. If winning general elections is a skill and an art then Mr Blair knows what he's talking about. You don't win a general election after the invasion of Iraq by accident. I'd suggest that takes a degree of political acumen. The point is that Mr Corbyn is a man who has some honestly held views (although his alleged giving of money to holocaust deniers is dubious at best) - a true conviction politician. The argument is that Mr Corbyn has always been in opposition even when Labour were in government. Mr Corbyn's strength as a conviction politician is therefore his real weakness as a party leader, in so much as he has never commanded loyalty, and has been an outspoken advocate of party indiscipline. On that basis it's impossible to vote for Mr Corbyn as leader because, by his own very definition, Mr Corbyn cannot command loyalty and respect from the party as he's never shown any himself. At least that's how the argument goes. The smear campaign is in full swing.......This news story does it's best, Gordon Brown is so transparent it's cringeworthy (as mentioned before using the same negative noises made in the anti-SNP campaign). Then moves on to a vox pop with the previous seedlings of doubt sprouting in full view and then to an outrageous story that perhaps Corbyn supporters are engaged in racial abuse to his opponents via Twitter, well who else would be up to such mischief, the very thought. Corbyn's response to the allegations is cool, balanced and stacks up for me, do you not believe him? If this is the best they can do after all his years as a centre left conviction MP, then they really are scraping the barrel. They're even rolling out David Blunket now........jesus wept. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2015 12:34:10 GMT
That's a subjective point, maybe. If winning general elections is a skill and an art then Mr Blair knows what he's talking about. You don't win a general election after the invasion of Iraq by accident. I'd suggest that takes a degree of political acumen. The point is that Mr Corbyn is a man who has some honestly held views (although his alleged giving of money to holocaust deniers is dubious at best) - a true conviction politician. The argument is that Mr Corbyn has always been in opposition even when Labour were in government. Mr Corbyn's strength as a conviction politician is therefore his real weakness as a party leader, in so much as he has never commanded loyalty, and has been an outspoken advocate of party indiscipline. On that basis it's impossible to vote for Mr Corbyn as leader because, by his own very definition, Mr Corbyn cannot command loyalty and respect from the party as he's never shown any himself. At least that's how the argument goes. The smear campaign is in full swing.......This news story does it's best, Gordon Brown is so transparent it's cringeworthy (as mentioned before using the same negative noises made in the anti-SNP campaign). Then moves on to a vox pop with the previous seedlings of doubt sprouting in full view and then to an outrageous story that perhaps Corbyn supporters are engaged in racial abuse to his opponents via Twitter, well who else would be up to such mischief, the very thought. Corbyn's response to the allegations is cool, balanced and stacks up for me, do you not believe him? If this is the best they can do after all his years as a centre left conviction MP, then they really are scraping the barrel. They're even rolling out David Blunket now........jesus wept. Which the begs the obvious question that if a blind man can see the fucking issues, then why can't you.? Vote insanity.... You know it makes sense. One left wing MP versus the future of the Labour Party. You decide. The end. |
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Post by stokeharry on Aug 19, 2015 13:11:35 GMT
The smear campaign is in full swing.......This news story does it's best, Gordon Brown is so transparent it's cringeworthy (as mentioned before using the same negative noises made in the anti-SNP campaign). Then moves on to a vox pop with the previous seedlings of doubt sprouting in full view and then to an outrageous story that perhaps Corbyn supporters are engaged in racial abuse to his opponents via Twitter, well who else would be up to such mischief, the very thought. Corbyn's response to the allegations is cool, balanced and stacks up for me, do you not believe him? If this is the best they can do after all his years as a centre left conviction MP, then they really are scraping the barrel. They're even rolling out David Blunket now........jesus wept. Which the begs the obvious question that if a blind man can see the fucking issues, then why can't you.? Vote insanity.... You know it makes sense. One left wing MP versus the future of the Labour Party. You decide. The end. Fact |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Aug 19, 2015 13:21:22 GMT
Yes we do hate you Tony - and it’s you who took Labour over the ‘cliff edge A very good read from Richard Sudan... Whatever one thinks of Jeremy Corbyn and his politics, the idea that it is Labour supporters who are responsible and the ones to blame for the identity crisis the party now finds itself in, as is being suggested by Blair, is as delusional as his premiership was. www.rt.com/op-edge/312651-corbyn-blair-labour-uk/Love Mr Blair or hate him (it's entirely up to you) the guy won three back-to-back General Elections, one of which was won after the Iraq War with a majority of 66. Mr Blair is Labour's most electorally successful leader. I'm not sure how else, in politics, one is supposed to measure success when the only real gauge of success is getting into government. The point is that Labour Leadership elections are one member one vote and are the most democratic in the British political system as things currently stand. Therefore Mr Blair's opinion is just that - the voice of a man with but one vote - but he knows how to win general elections. Love Mr Hitler or hate him (it's entirely up to you) the guy led the NSDAP from a party on the fringe's of politics to a general election victory. I'm not sure how else, in politics, one is supposed to measure success when the only real gauge of success is getting into government. That's not to suggest Blair and Hitler are one and the same. Only that we should measure politicians on more than just getting into power. What they do with that power is a more accurate benchmark. Not that I feel sorry for Blair whatsoever, but it's unfortunate to think that were it not for Iraq Blair's long-standing legacy would've been the Good Friday Agreement - a piece of politics that has made millions of people's lives safer and better. What a shame that the agreement will be but a footnote in obituary. |
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Post by Biblical on Aug 19, 2015 16:35:52 GMT
Which the begs the obvious question that if a blind man can see the fucking issues, then why can't you.? Vote insanity.... You know it makes sense. One left wing MP versus the future of the Labour Party. You decide. The end. Fact Well seeing as though a fact is something which is known or proven to be true then it's clearly not a fact it's just an opinion. |
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Post by stokeharry on Aug 19, 2015 16:42:35 GMT
Well seeing as though a fact is something which is known or proven to be true then it's clearly not a fact it's just an opinion. Doesn't stop your lot passing your opinions off as facts though does it |
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Post by Biblical on Aug 19, 2015 16:54:33 GMT
Well seeing as though a fact is something which is known or proven to be true then it's clearly not a fact it's just an opinion. Doesn't stop your lot passing your opinions off as facts though does it That's a strange attempt at trying to justify the fact that you're wrong  |
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Post by stokeharry on Aug 19, 2015 16:58:40 GMT
Doesn't stop your lot passing your opinions off as facts though does it That's a strange attempt at trying to justify the fact that you're wrong In YOUR opinion  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2015 17:22:22 GMT
Well seeing as though a fact is something which is known or proven to be true then it's clearly not a fact it's just an opinion. the above is a fact . It's what's at stake . You have a left wing CND supporting 'luvvy' versus the future well being of the party . The fact that he is liked by you and your ilk changes nothing . When ex Prime Ministers get involved and issue the warnings then you need to wise up .... Even if I was left wing , I'm not that fucking stupid that I would be voting for some fucker who's popularity is gauged by that of his own kind and not of the country as a whole. Some of you lot need to get real . You're living in fantasy land . Stop acting like fucking school children . I Nuts . |
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Post by stokeharry on Aug 19, 2015 17:27:55 GMT
Well seeing as though a fact is something which is known or proven to be true then it's clearly not a fact it's just an opinion. the above is a fact . It's what's at stake . You have a left wing CND supporting 'luvvy' versus the future well being of the party . The fact that he is liked by you and your ilk changes nothing . When ex Prime Ministers get involved and issue the warnings then you need to wise up .... Even if I was left wing , I'm not that fucking stupid that I would be voting for some fucker who's popularity is gauged by that of his own kind and not of the country as a whole. Some of you need lot need to get real . You're living in fantasy land . Stop acting like fucking school children . Nuts . FACT |
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Post by kbillyh on Aug 19, 2015 17:30:59 GMT
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Post by Biblical on Aug 19, 2015 17:40:59 GMT
Well seeing as though a fact is something which is known or proven to be true then it's clearly not a fact it's just an opinion. the above is a fact . It's what's at stake . You have a left wing CND supporting 'luvvy' versus the future well being of the party . The fact that he is liked by you and your ilk changes nothing . When ex Prime Ministers get involved and issue the warnings then you need to wise up .... Even if I was left wing , I'm not that fucking stupid that I would be voting for some fucker who's popularity is gauged by that of his own kind and not of the country as a whole. Some of you lot need to get real . You're living in fantasy land . Stop acting like fucking school children . I Nuts . It's an opinion that you're fully entitled to but it's not a fact. I've got no doubt that you're a man of considerable experience that can offer some worthwhile opinions into this debate but you just come across as a condescending twat. |
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Post by Biblical on Aug 19, 2015 17:41:50 GMT
That's a strange attempt at trying to justify the fact that you're wrong In YOUR opinion I'm not surprised you haven't got the self awareness to appreciate that you're in the wrong when you can't differentiate between fact and opinion. |
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Post by stokeharry on Aug 19, 2015 17:43:01 GMT
In YOUR opinion I'm not surprised you haven't got the self awareness to appreciate that you're in the wrong when you can't differentiate between fact and opinion. I'm right your opinion isn't relevant and you are wrong. Now THAT'S a fact ;-) |
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Post by Biblical on Aug 19, 2015 17:51:42 GMT
I'm not surprised you haven't got the self awareness to appreciate that you're in the wrong when you can't differentiate between fact and opinion. I'm right your opinion isn't relevant and you are wrong. Now THAT'S a fact ;-)  |
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Post by stokeharry on Aug 19, 2015 17:53:04 GMT
I'm right your opinion isn't relevant and you are wrong. Now THAT'S a fact ;-) (With both hands) |
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Post by Biblical on Aug 19, 2015 17:55:59 GMT
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Post by stokeharry on Aug 19, 2015 18:06:02 GMT
I beat you too it  |
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Post by derrida1437 on Aug 19, 2015 18:37:01 GMT
Love Mr Blair or hate him (it's entirely up to you) the guy won three back-to-back General Elections, one of which was won after the Iraq War with a majority of 66. Mr Blair is Labour's most electorally successful leader. I'm not sure how else, in politics, one is supposed to measure success when the only real gauge of success is getting into government. The point is that Labour Leadership elections are one member one vote and are the most democratic in the British political system as things currently stand. Therefore Mr Blair's opinion is just that - the voice of a man with but one vote - but he knows how to win general elections. Love Mr Hitler or hate him (it's entirely up to you) the guy led the NSDAP from a party on the fringe's of politics to a general election victory. I'm not sure how else, in politics, one is supposed to measure success when the only real gauge of success is getting into government. That's not to suggest Blair and Hitler are one and the same. Only that we should measure politicians on more than just getting into power. What they do with that power is a more accurate benchmark. Not that I feel sorry for Blair whatsoever, but it's unfortunate to think that were it not for Iraq Blair's long-standing legacy would've been the Good Friday Agreement - a piece of politics that has made millions of people's lives safer and better. What a shame that the agreement will be but a footnote in obituary. It's a glorious side-show to the main act, I suppose, but thought I'd better point out.......Hitler never gained an elected majority in a free and democratic election in Germany. spartacus-educational.com/GER1933.htm |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 19, 2015 19:10:43 GMT
Love Mr Hitler or hate him (it's entirely up to you) the guy led the NSDAP from a party on the fringe's of politics to a general election victory. I'm not sure how else, in politics, one is supposed to measure success when the only real gauge of success is getting into government. That's not to suggest Blair and Hitler are one and the same. Only that we should measure politicians on more than just getting into power. What they do with that power is a more accurate benchmark. Not that I feel sorry for Blair whatsoever, but it's unfortunate to think that were it not for Iraq Blair's long-standing legacy would've been the Good Friday Agreement - a piece of politics that has made millions of people's lives safer and better. What a shame that the agreement will be but a footnote in obituary. It's a glorious side-show to the main act, I suppose, but thought I'd better point out.......Hitler never gained an elected majority in a fee and democratic election in Germany. spartacus-educational.com/GER1933.htm************** fee? How much? |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 19, 2015 20:00:23 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 19, 2015 20:01:57 GMT
Just cast my vote and did so for the man who offers some truth, justice and fairness back into the party and the country.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 19, 2015 20:02:45 GMT
the above is a fact . It's what's at stake . You have a left wing CND supporting 'luvvy' versus the future well being of the party . The fact that he is liked by you and your ilk changes nothing . When ex Prime Ministers get involved and issue the warnings then you need to wise up .... Even if I was left wing , I'm not that fucking stupid that I would be voting for some fucker who's popularity is gauged by that of his own kind and not of the country as a whole. Some of you lot need to get real . You're living in fantasy land . Stop acting like fucking school children . I Nuts . It's an opinion that you're fully entitled to but it's not a fact. I've got no doubt that you're a man of considerable experience that can offer some worthwhile opinions into this debate but you just come across as a condescending twat. He's expert at that. |
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