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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 15, 2015 6:28:46 GMT
Huddy As a UKIP member I fully understand why Corbyn came out top in the popularity quiz , and the reasons you give are far from the mark, in my opinion. I like Corbyn because he is a genuine and honest man, a conviction politician who has exposed the shallowness of the other candidates, energised some young people and has highlighted the hypocrisy/dichotomy within the Labour party. Going back to my OP, he has given some direction , purpose and leadership, which I could not envisage when starting the thread. Even if he fails he is the only candidate able to lead a Labour party that actually 'opposes' , the alternatives being Tory or Tory Lite. I don't think that the other 3 could recover and effectively lead the party in light of his onslaught. He is also the only Eurosceptic candidate. Unfortunately , if /when he wins I do not think that he will ever go on to be PM. This is not so much a reflection on him; the left wingers on the Oatcake seem to think that those who have reservations about him are claiming, but is about how he will be crucified by the media and others. His stance on NATO, CND is just one of many starting points for a media field day ( even though many will agree with him). As nice as he is, should he become leader his first task will be to unite his own party, before we get anywhere near 2020. I would not mind your view on the EU issue Huddy. Any chance? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2015 6:48:19 GMT
Huddy As a UKIP member I fully understand why Corbyn came out top in the popularity quiz , and the reasons you give are far from the mark, in my opinion. I like Corbyn because he is a genuine and honest man, a conviction politician who has exposed the shallowness of the other candidates, energised some young people and has highlighted the hypocrisy/dichotomy within the Labour party. Going back to my OP, he has given some direction , purpose and leadership, which I could not envisage when starting the thread. Even if he fails he is the only candidate able to lead a Labour party that actually 'opposes' , the alternatives being Tory or Tory Lite. I don't think that the other 3 could recover and effectively lead the party in light of his onslaught. He is also the only Eurosceptic candidate. Unfortunately , if /when he wins I do not think that he will ever go on to be PM. This is not so much a reflection on him; the left wingers on the Oatcake seem to think that those who have reservations about him are claiming, but is about how he will be crucified by the media and others. His stance on NATO, CND is just one of many starting points for a media field day ( even though many will agree with him). As nice as he is, should he become leader his first task will be to unite his own party, before we get anywhere near 2020. I would not mind your view on the EU issue Huddy. Any chance? Tick ....tick......tick .......tick.....tick ..... |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 15, 2015 6:55:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2015 7:01:19 GMT
He's a proven winner Momo . What do you think Commie Corbyns chances are going to be ? |
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 15, 2015 8:29:39 GMT
I get the feeling that if the Titanic had been promoting it's first voyage as an opportunity to experience a shipwreck in the cold waters of the Atlantic folk like Huddy would be signing up for (probably) steerage tickets.
Insanity.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 15, 2015 8:45:45 GMT
I get the feeling that if the Titanic had been promoting it's first voyage as an opportunity to experience a shipwreck in the cold waters of the Atlantic folk like Huddy would be signing up for (probably) steerage tickets. Insanity. Patrick, as Jeremy is in Scotland, and that vote is important for a Labour election victory AND for the future of the Union, how would you assess his chances up there? |
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 15, 2015 9:43:53 GMT
Labour seems to think the way forward is to turn backwards
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2015 9:58:29 GMT
Labour seems to think the way forward is to turn backwards Yes indeed , and it's also quite noticeable how Corbyns supporters on here seem very reluctant to answer any specific questions on Corbyns policy , or their own thoughts on it . They seem more keen on a negative , antagonistic approach using a variety of tactics for reasons only known to themselves . It's a kind of rear guard action that the Germans used as they pulled out of Russia after operation Barbarossa . They fought a tremendous brave battle as I'm sure you know ....but ultimately got slaughtered . You see to stand any chance of victory you need a great leader . A master tactician that not only has intellectual ability , but also the style and charisma. I'm not sure that the bike , the beard and the cap quite do that for those in Home Counties South , no matter how nice and honest a man he is . |
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 15, 2015 10:09:51 GMT
I get the feeling that if the Titanic had been promoting it's first voyage as an opportunity to experience a shipwreck in the cold waters of the Atlantic folk like Huddy would be signing up for (probably) steerage tickets. Insanity. Patrick, as Jeremy is in Scotland, and that vote is important for a Labour election victory AND for the future of the Union, how would you assess his chances up there? It's an interesting question. The SNP would quite like Corbyn to win because they see that further weakening Labour's Scottish position - their main opponent in Scotland. Remember their strong anti-Tory line in the election (which doesn't bear much critical analysis when you separate rhetoric from action; the old adage Tartan Tory still applies, although that may well change as their new members start to assert their influence). The anti Tory stuff was a ploy to attract Labour voters, same as the Tories anti-SNP line was intended to attract wavering Labour votes. Anything that damages Labour in Scotland is good for the "Yes" folk. They really don't care about what happens in Westminster - other than providing ammunition for the independence argument. So why do nationalists prefer Corbyn - it's because they think they can portray anything he says as copying ideas of the SNP (Corbyn has already conceded this on a number of occassions) meaning Labour in Scotland under Corbyn can be deprived of an identity meaning they are invisible, or to put it another way, an electoral irrelevance. Corbyn seems to see the SNP as political bed fellows. He couldn't be more wrong. Their priority is independence and they'll wear whatever clothes to achieve that aim. And why not. They are not your allies Mr Corbyn. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 15, 2015 10:42:09 GMT
Labour seems to think the way forward is to turn backwards Yes indeed , and it's also quite noticeable how Corbyns supporters on here seem very reluctant to answer any specific questions on Corbyns policy , or their own thoughts on it . . What specific questions, mumf. It could well be argued that Corbyn's policies are the only progressive ones on the Englsh political scene. The austerity policy we have now is positively Victorian in its conception. Abusive to working people, the sick and the neediest in society. |
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 15, 2015 10:43:05 GMT
Labour seems to think the way forward is to turn backwards Yes indeed , and it's also quite noticeable how Corbyns supporters on here seem very reluctant to answer any specific questions on Corbyns policy , or their own thoughts on it . They seem more keen on a negative , antagonistic approach using a variety of tactics for reasons only known to themselves . It's a kind of rear guard action that the Germans used as they pulled out of Russia after operation Barbarossa . They fought a tremendous brave battle as I'm sure you know ....but ultimately got slaughtered . You see to stand any chance of victory you need a great leader . A master tactician that not only has intellectual ability , but also the style and charisma. I'm not sure that the bike , the beard and the cap quite do that for those in Home Counties South , no matter how nice and honest a man he is . Home Counties and the northern shires will not vote labour in any case mumf , London is traditionally a labour stronghold as are many of the inner cities . Labour is trying to appeal to a new generation of voters with outdated policies . important topics such as bankers bonuses , high levels of rent are of no real interest to the vast majority come election time . Nuclear weapons are abhorrent , but we need them now more than ever , these weapons now exist in some of the worlds most unstable regions . They are called a deterrent for just that reason . Despite what labour supporters may think this government are helping the low paid with for instance . Large proposed increases in minimum wage , a substantial increase in the basic rate tax threshold taking many low paid workers out of taxation altogether . Doubling of free nursery care next year from 15 to 30hours a week . Enabling mothers to go back to work . Ring fencing education and health spending . Combined with a genuine revue of all benefits that is long overdue . All these measures to improve working folks lives should be what labour talk about , not hard left rhetoric from a bygone age |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 15, 2015 10:53:26 GMT
Yes indeed , and it's also quite noticeable how Corbyns supporters on here seem very reluctant to answer any specific questions on Corbyns policy , or their own thoughts on it . They seem more keen on a negative , antagonistic approach using a variety of tactics for reasons only known to themselves . It's a kind of rear guard action that the Germans used as they pulled out of Russia after operation Barbarossa . They fought a tremendous brave battle as I'm sure you know ....but ultimately got slaughtered . You see to stand any chance of victory you need a great leader . A master tactician that not only has intellectual ability , but also the style and charisma. I'm not sure that the bike , the beard and the cap quite do that for those in Home Counties South , no matter how nice and honest a man he is . Home Counties and the northern shires will not vote labour in any case mumf , London is traditionally a labour stronghold as are many of the inner cities . Labour is trying to appeal to a new generation of voters with outdated policies . important topics such as bankers bonuses , high levels of rent are of no real interest to the vast majority come election time . Nuclear weapons are abhorrent , but we need them now more than ever , these weapons now exist in some of the worlds most unstable regions . They are called a deterrent for just that reason . Despite what labour supporters may think this government are helping the low paid with for instance . Large proposed increases in minimum wage , a substantial increase in the basic rate tax threshold taking many low paid workers out of taxation altogether . Doubling of free nursery care next year from 15 to 30hours a week . Enabling mothers to go back to work . Ring fencing education and health spending . Combined with a genuine revue of all benefits that is long overdue . All these measures to improve working folks lives should be what labour talk about , not hard left rhetoric from a bygone age Sorry harry, most of that is utter rot. This Government does nothing for the poorest society and seeks to demonise them. Under the past 5 years of Tory rule the UK has become the most unequal country in the western world. |
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 15, 2015 11:03:42 GMT
Home Counties and the northern shires will not vote labour in any case mumf , London is traditionally a labour stronghold as are many of the inner cities . Labour is trying to appeal to a new generation of voters with outdated policies . important topics such as bankers bonuses , high levels of rent are of no real interest to the vast majority come election time . Nuclear weapons are abhorrent , but we need them now more than ever , these weapons now exist in some of the worlds most unstable regions . They are called a deterrent for just that reason . Despite what labour supporters may think this government are helping the low paid with for instance . Large proposed increases in minimum wage , a substantial increase in the basic rate tax threshold taking many low paid workers out of taxation altogether . Doubling of free nursery care next year from 15 to 30hours a week . Enabling mothers to go back to work . Ring fencing education and health spending . Combined with a genuine revue of all benefits that is long overdue . All these measures to improve working folks lives should be what labour talk about , not hard left rhetoric from a bygone age Sorry harry, most of that is utter rot. This Government does nothing for the poorest society and seeks to demonise them. Under the past 5 years of Tory rule the UK has become the most unequal country in the western world. I'm not sure what your definition of poor is momo , don't remember the last labour government proposing such large increase in minimum wage for instance . I don't think anybody wants to see attacks on the poor as you characterise it . The welfare state does need a proper overhaul . Vulnerable people should always receive what they need . That doesn't mean it's untouchable . Lots of fraud and abuse is taking place . The state is not duty bound to fund anyone's lifestyle it's a minimum safety net |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2015 11:53:58 GMT
Yes indeed , and it's also quite noticeable how Corbyns supporters on here seem very reluctant to answer any specific questions on Corbyns policy , or their own thoughts on it . . What specific questions, mumf. It could well be argued that Corbyn's policies are the only progressive ones on the Englsh political scene. The austerity policy we have now is positively Victorian in its conception. Abusive to working people, the sick and the neediest in society. I asked you before what you thought Corbyns prospects were of winning a general election ,? |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 15, 2015 11:57:59 GMT
Sorry harry, most of that is utter rot. This Government does nothing for the poorest society and seeks to demonise them. Under the past 5 years of Tory rule the UK has become the most unequal country in the western world. I'm not sure what your definition of poor is momo , don't remember the last labour government proposing such large increase in minimum wage for instance . I don't think anybody wants to see attacks on the poor as you characterise it . The welfare state does need a proper overhaul . Vulnerable people should always receive what they need . That doesn't mean it's untouchable . Lots of fraud and abuse is taking place . The state is not duty bound to fund anyone's lifestyle it's a minimum safety net Trickle down economics does not work. It is completely discredited. The rich squirrel their funds off shore it never trickles down. All the while an underclass is being encouraged yet demonised. It's a heinous con trick. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 15, 2015 12:00:58 GMT
What specific questions, mumf. It could well be argued that Corbyn's policies are the only progressive ones on the Englsh political scene. The austerity policy we have now is positively Victorian in its conception. Abusive to working people, the sick and the neediest in society. I asked you before what you thought Corbyns prospects were of winning a general election ,? Pretty low as the odds (and by odds I mean vested interests) are massively stacked against him but I wouldn't completely rule it out. This is the most unpopular new government in history and has only 24% of the electorate behind it and that wouldn't be that hard to achieve. That's not a policy question though. |
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Post by stokeharry on Aug 15, 2015 12:11:27 GMT
Yes indeed , and it's also quite noticeable how Corbyns supporters on here seem very reluctant to answer any specific questions on Corbyns policy , or their own thoughts on it . They seem more keen on a negative , antagonistic approach using a variety of tactics for reasons only known to themselves . It's a kind of rear guard action that the Germans used as they pulled out of Russia after operation Barbarossa . They fought a tremendous brave battle as I'm sure you know ....but ultimately got slaughtered . You see to stand any chance of victory you need a great leader . A master tactician that not only has intellectual ability , but also the style and charisma. I'm not sure that the bike , the beard and the cap quite do that for those in Home Counties South , no matter how nice and honest a man he is . Home Counties and the northern shires will not vote labour in any case mumf , London is traditionally a labour stronghold as are many of the inner cities . Labour is trying to appeal to a new generation of voters with outdated policies . important topics such as bankers bonuses , high levels of rent are of no real interest to the vast majority come election time . Nuclear weapons are abhorrent , but we need them now more than ever , these weapons now exist in some of the worlds most unstable regions . They are called a deterrent for just that reason . Despite what labour supporters may think this government are helping the low paid with for instance . Large proposed increases in minimum wage , a substantial increase in the basic rate tax threshold taking many low paid workers out of taxation altogether . Doubling of free nursery care next year from 15 to 30hours a week . Enabling mothers to go back to work . Ring fencing education and health spending . Combined with a genuine revue of all benefits that is long overdue . All these measures to improve working folks lives should be what labour talk about , not hard left rhetoric from a bygone age Good post and fully agree |
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Post by ColonelMustard on Aug 15, 2015 12:16:56 GMT
Sorry harry, most of that is utter rot. This Government does nothing for the poorest society and seeks to demonise them. Under the past 5 years of Tory rule the UK has become the most unequal country in the western world. I'm not sure what your definition of poor is momo , don't remember the last labour government proposing such large increase in minimum wage for instance . I don't think anybody wants to see attacks on the poor as you characterise it . The welfare state does need a proper overhaul . Vulnerable people should always receive what they need . That doesn't mean it's untouchable . Lots of fraud and abuse is taking place . The state is not duty bound to fund anyone's lifestyle it's a minimum safety net A welfare system will never be perfect. The choice is a system where some abuse will take place or a system with much less abuse where more very poor people dont get what they need. As hard as abuse is to swallow, the country I want to live in takes the first option. It all feeds back into the economy anyway - as compared to tax evasion, welfare abusers have a much higher propensity to spend. |
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 15, 2015 12:20:28 GMT
I'm not sure what your definition of poor is momo , don't remember the last labour government proposing such large increase in minimum wage for instance . I don't think anybody wants to see attacks on the poor as you characterise it . The welfare state does need a proper overhaul . Vulnerable people should always receive what they need . That doesn't mean it's untouchable . Lots of fraud and abuse is taking place . The state is not duty bound to fund anyone's lifestyle it's a minimum safety net Trickle down economics does not work. It is completely discredited. The rich squirrel their funds off shore it never trickles down. All the while an underclass is being encouraged yet demonised. It's a heinous con trick. I don't have a problem with some people being rich , good luck to them , chances are many of these people have created jobs and paid lots of tax . I'm all for equality in society but not by punishing successful wealth creators . |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 15, 2015 12:29:34 GMT
Trickle down economics does not work. It is completely discredited. The rich squirrel their funds off shore it never trickles down. All the while an underclass is being encouraged yet demonised. It's a heinous con trick. I don't have a problem with some people being rich , good luck to them , chances are many of these people have created jobs and paid lots of tax . I'm all for equality in society but not by punishing successful wealth creators . It's not about having a problem with the wealthy, it's about the fabrication that creating more wealthy people and having an economy where wealthy people get wealthier (the cornerstone of Tory economic philosophy) is good for the economy as a whole. Absolutely every piece of independent research suggests it isn't. It doesn't trickle down, it just creates two entirely different independent societies. |
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 15, 2015 12:53:44 GMT
I don't have a problem with some people being rich , good luck to them , chances are many of these people have created jobs and paid lots of tax . I'm all for equality in society but not by punishing successful wealth creators . It's not about having a problem with the wealthy, it's about the fabrication that creating more wealthy people and having an economy where wealthy people get wealthier (the cornerstone of Tory economic philosophy) is good for the economy as a whole. Absolutely every piece of independent research suggests it isn't. It doesn't trickle down, it just creates two entirely different independent societies. Not saying it's a perfect system or that it isn't being abused by certain people . Tax avoidance is a problem in the wider economy not just the folks with a good offshore fund . I'm also convinced that labours previous economic performances have never been able to sustain its high spending on social policies . Like most people I have nothing against high levels of public spending provided we have the means to pay for them |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 15, 2015 17:04:50 GMT
Yes indeed , and it's also quite noticeable how Corbyns supporters on here seem very reluctant to answer any specific questions on Corbyns policy , or their own thoughts on it . . What specific questions, mumf. It could well be argued that Corbyn's policies are the only progressive ones on the Englsh political scene. The austerity policy we have now is positively Victorian in its conception. Abusive to working people, the sick and the neediest in society. To be fair Momo, the only reason Mumf is asking this is down to the simple fact that he has no answers except the abuse he hurls at me and others. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 15, 2015 17:07:13 GMT
He's a proven winner Momo . What do you think Commie Corbyns chances are going to be ? He's a liar a neoliberal and a war criminal. Corbyn is no communist, grow up. |
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 15, 2015 17:38:27 GMT
What specific questions, mumf. It could well be argued that Corbyn's policies are the only progressive ones on the Englsh political scene. The austerity policy we have now is positively Victorian in its conception. Abusive to working people, the sick and the neediest in society. To be fair Momo, the only reason Mumf is asking this is down to the simple fact that he has no answers except the abuse he hurls at me and others. Honestly huddy mumf has been charm personified recently , can't believe you are playing that card again |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 15, 2015 17:49:13 GMT
To be fair Momo, the only reason Mumf is asking this is down to the simple fact that he has no answers except the abuse he hurls at me and others. Honestly huddy mumf has been charm personified recently , can't believe you are playing that card again Not to me he hasn't. Maybe you should research. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 15, 2015 17:56:32 GMT
Yes indeed , and it's also quite noticeable how Corbyns supporters on here seem very reluctant to answer any specific questions on Corbyns policy , or their own thoughts on it . . What specific questions, mumf. It could well be argued that Corbyn's policies are the only progressive ones on the Englsh political scene. The austerity policy we have now is positively Victorian in its conception. Abusive to working people, the sick and the neediest in society. Don't know what Mumf's on about.....but I have asked about the position on the EU , without an answer |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 15, 2015 18:03:25 GMT
What specific questions, mumf. It could well be argued that Corbyn's policies are the only progressive ones on the Englsh political scene. The austerity policy we have now is positively Victorian in its conception. Abusive to working people, the sick and the neediest in society. Don't know what Mumf's on about.....but I have asked about the position on the EU , without an answer I understand Corbyn is in favour of a reformed EU. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 15, 2015 18:16:08 GMT
Don't know what Mumf's on about.....but I have asked about the position on the EU , without an answer I understand Corbyn is in favour of a reformed EU. He is at the moment. Originally following Benn he was against it. Being a policitian I believe that he is correct , at present. What is YOUR position? |
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Post by boothenboy75 on Aug 15, 2015 18:59:09 GMT
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Post by stokeharry on Aug 15, 2015 19:18:35 GMT
Muslims can't do any wrong in their eyes though mate . They take their side even when they are in the wrong and lick their arses regardless of the situation, another reason why hell will freeze over before I vote for Labour again |
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