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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2015 23:57:53 GMT
True though isn't it? You are a renowned fence sitter with the occasional right wing twist? So you say ......and I am more right wing than left ...but not twisted I'm sorry to disappoint you .....why do you have such a problem with fence sitters by the way ? The truth of the matter from my point of view is that I'm not obsessive about politics in either direction ....I have my point of view and that's as far as it goes .....I have my cosy life to live and Intend living it .....I leave the rabid political debates to people like yourself ....enjoy it . I feel Rabid everytime Ilda goes T'Bingo and the word Ethel is uttered...... I even come out in a rash . Not even the extremities are spared.....  |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 14, 2015 0:04:07 GMT
So you say ......and I am more right wing than left ...but not twisted I'm sorry to disappoint you .....why do you have such a problem with fence sitters by the way ? The truth of the matter from my point of view is that I'm not obsessive about politics in either direction ....I have my point of view and that's as far as it goes .....I have my cosy life to live and Intend living it .....I leave the rabid political debates to people like yourself ....enjoy it . I feel Rabid everytime Ilda goes T'Bingo and the word Ethel is uttered...... I even come out in a rash . Not even the extremities are spared..... Nice to see you like Bisp taking none of this seriously. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 14, 2015 0:05:12 GMT
You came out on the attack tonight and you met your match . Bullies hunt in packs ...I hunt alone . Mumf Stokeharry likes this.... Oh dear Not sure in which world you live where bullies "hunt in packs"? You certainly never did in your youth. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2015 0:06:21 GMT
So you say ......and I am more right wing than left ...but not twisted I'm sorry to disappoint you .....why do you have such a problem with fence sitters by the way ? The truth of the matter from my point of view is that I'm not obsessive about politics in either direction ....I have my point of view and that's as far as it goes .....I have my cosy life to live and Intend living it .....I leave the rabid political debates to people like yourself ....enjoy it . So why snipe on the sidelines on a thread like this? Just curious? Sniping ? For goodness sake where am I sniping ? Have you lost your sense of humour completely .....lighten up for goodness sake ....I snipe at nobody unless they snipe at me first .....I post nothing on here that's not intended in good humour , how other precious and precocious people choose to interpret it is up to them .....but please do not ever compare me with a facist again ..... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2015 0:07:06 GMT
So you say ......and I am more right wing than left ...but not twisted I'm sorry to disappoint you .....why do you have such a problem with fence sitters by the way ? The truth of the matter from my point of view is that I'm not obsessive about politics in either direction ....I have my point of view and that's as far as it goes .....I have my cosy life to live and Intend living it .....I leave the rabid political debates to people like yourself ....enjoy it . I feel Rabid everytime Ilda goes T'Bingo and the word Ethel is uttered...... I even come out in a rash . Not even the extremities are spared..... No need for graphics is there ?  |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 14, 2015 0:09:30 GMT
So why snipe on the sidelines on a thread like this? Just curious? Sniping ? For goodness sake where am I sniping ? Have you lost your sense of humour completely .....lighten up for goodness sake ....I snipe at nobody unless they snipe at me first .....I post nothing on here that's not intended in good humour , how other precious and precocious people choose to interpret it is up to them .....but please do not ever compare me with a facist again ..... Sometimes you attempt at humour is not seen as such perhaps? You do have a history of siding with some of the more right wing posters on this board..on regular occasion Just my observation...intended in "good humour"? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2015 0:10:39 GMT
I feel Rabid everytime Ilda goes T'Bingo and the word Ethel is uttered...... I even come out in a rash . Not even the extremities are spared..... Nice to see you like Bisp taking none of this seriously. Why would you ? Life is too short ......I will never take the Oatcake seriously ....After all it's a forum/ message board for gods sake ! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2015 0:12:36 GMT
I feel Rabid everytime Ilda goes T'Bingo and the word Ethel is uttered...... I even come out in a rash . Not even the extremities are spared..... Nice to see you like Bisp taking none of this seriously. Well faced with what you have to offer , it's easy to drift away . Do you realise how pathetic you are ...? You come on here mouthing off and at the first reply of indignitation and contempt you retract in a tight coil of self doubt . You then resort to false accusation and lies. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 14, 2015 0:15:45 GMT
Nice to see you like Bisp taking none of this seriously. Well faced with what you have to offer , it's easy to drift away . Do you realise how pathetic you are ...? You come on here mouthing off and at the first reply of indignitation and contempt you retract in a tight coil of self doubt . You then resort to false accusation and lies. Explain yourself please? |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 14, 2015 0:16:50 GMT
Nice to see you like Bisp taking none of this seriously. Why would you ? Life is too short ......I will never take the Oatcake seriously ....After all it's a forum/ message board for gods sake ! So again..why participate in such a serious subject as this? Or am I missing something? |
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Post by stokeharry on Aug 14, 2015 0:19:34 GMT
You came out on the attack tonight and you met your match . Bullies hunt in packs ...I hunt alone . Mumf Stokeharry likes this.... Oh dear Not sure in which world you live where bullies "hunt in packs"? You certainly never did in your youth. Vote UKIP boy |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2015 0:20:16 GMT
Sniping ? For goodness sake where am I sniping ? Have you lost your sense of humour completely .....lighten up for goodness sake ....I snipe at nobody unless they snipe at me first .....I post nothing on here that's not intended in good humour , how other precious and precocious people choose to interpret it is up to them .....but please do not ever compare me with a facist again ..... Sometimes you attempt at humour is not seen as such perhaps? You do have a history of siding with some of the more right wing posters on this board..on regular occasion Just my observation...intended in "good humour"? Just who collates the history of whom I side with ? You I presume ? i have to admit you would not be the first person that has difficulties understanding my sense of humour ...that's just the way it is ....it's obviously more difficult wearing the number 11 shirt than it is wearing the number 7 |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2015 0:21:17 GMT
Nice to see you like Bisp taking none of this seriously. Well faced with what you have to offer , it's easy to drift away . Do you realise how pathetic you are ...? You come on here mouthing off and at the first reply of indignitation and contempt you retract in a tight coil of self doubt . You then resort to false accusation and lies. Are you calling me a drifter ?  |
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Post by stokeharry on Aug 14, 2015 0:26:56 GMT
Well faced with what you have to offer , it's easy to drift away . Do you realise how pathetic you are ...? You come on here mouthing off and at the first reply of indignitation and contempt you retract in a tight coil of self doubt . You then resort to false accusation and lies. Are you calling me a drifter ? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2015 0:27:15 GMT
Why would you ? Life is too short ......I will never take the Oatcake seriously ....After all it's a forum/ message board for gods sake ! So again..why participate in such a serious subject as this? Or am I missing something? I was not actually participating in the debate .....if you could call the slanging match that was going on a debate ....I would not dream of doing so as I have no interest in the outcome of it at all .....but let's face it it was getting boring ....look at it as if it was a drinks break in a test match ....light relief ........you have my word as Fence Sitter General that will not encroach upon your precious thread again ! .....good night |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 14, 2015 0:28:01 GMT
Sometimes you attempt at humour is not seen as such perhaps? You do have a history of siding with some of the more right wing posters on this board..on regular occasion Just my observation...intended in "good humour"? Just who collates the history of whom I side with ? You I presume ? i have to admit you would not be the first person that has difficulties understanding my sense of humour ...that's just the way it is ....it's obviously more difficult wearing the number 11 shirt than it is wearing the number 7 Your response merely amplifies my point..eloquently. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2015 1:57:19 GMT
Just who collates the history of whom I side with ? You I presume ? i have to admit you would not be the first person that has difficulties understanding my sense of humour ...that's just the way it is ....it's obviously more difficult wearing the number 11 shirt than it is wearing the number 7 Your response merely amplifies my point..eloquently. Never mind .....I'm not really that concerned what you think,.. |
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Post by ColonelMustard on Aug 14, 2015 6:40:32 GMT
I'm not on here much recently but I will say this, other than autheniticity, I think Corbyn's popularity is also down to the internet, social media and the rise independant media. It is another reason his demographic is younger. The ideas he talks about are being debated, discussed and shared and the mainstream media are powerless to ignore it, so they are following the interest. It is the Blairites who are the dinosaurs for not realising the game is changing, the power of the mainstream media is on the wain and thinking they need to perpetuate the extreme policies of neoliberalism and austerity through fear of disapproval by Billionaire owned newspapers. As though the internet was never invented (and Keynes, successful mixed economies and the banking crash never happened). Surely it is labours role to promote the alternative.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 14, 2015 6:50:07 GMT
What’s Wrong With The Burnham-Kendall-Cooper-Campbell Position, And What’s Right About Corbyn’s “Every time Labour’s centre-right ruling faction has been faced with a choice between rebutting Tory distortions and endorsing them, it’s done the latter. Rather than responding with grit and principle, digging in and getting down to the pain-staking but worthwhile business of offering people an alternative, they’ve just gone along with the elite-pandering Tory narrative. Because it’s easier. And when you give in and give in and give in, repeatedly endorsing your opponents’ elite-skewed worldview, you help mainstream opinion float further and further away into libertarian-right fantasy land and away from objective reality.” Huddy this is absolutely true and it is the stark choice which the party now has.All credit to Corbyn he has exposed this abscess and it now it must be dealt with.His 3 opponents have been exposed and left with very little which is different to say. Non entities. If he wins, and I hope tat he does since he is a genuine man, he will be left with two major problems. 1 How does he keep the party together when many of the big guns fundamentally oppose him.He has energised and revitalised many on the left, who have now become members and perhaps he could form a new opposition. Good luck to him and I hope that he does.The problem then is what do "the rest", do......leave or plot against him. Either way it will be a very different party 2 How will he win an election. In my opinion he has no chance. I and others have given the reasons previously in thus thread.Others inside and outside the party have also given the reasons. Simply on issues like the CND/NATO, his image (I have no problem with it, but the press will have a field day), his potential as a world leader, his perceived (EVEN IF HE IS RIGHT) stance on the economy/quantitive easing (he will be slaughtered on this because those 'in conttol' will not accept it. His meeting HAMAS correct in my opinion as is some of his cooperative/nationisation ideas BUT the press would go to town on this. Having said that I think that he is doing the right thing, sticking to his principles, so no criticism of him personally He genuinely is a good man. In my opinion his possible only hope would be things going radically wrong for the Tories and the electorate doing what they always do....turn to 'the other lot". Please tell me Huddy, What is YOUR view on our membership of the EU? I find that supporters of Corbyn will NOT answer this question directly, but act a bit like the career politicians who do not know what to say until they see which way the wind blows. What is your position |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 14, 2015 7:03:18 GMT
I'm not on here much recently but I will say this, other than autheniticity, I think Corbyn's popularity is also down to the internet, social media and the rise independant media. It is another reason his demographic is younger. The ideas he talks about are being debated, discussed and shared and the mainstream media are powerless to ignore it, so they are following the interest. It is the Blairites who are the dinosaurs for not realising the game is changing, the power of the mainstream media is on the wain and thinking they need to perpetuate the extreme policies of neoliberalism and austerity through fear of disapproval by Billionaire owned newspapers. As though the internet was never invented (and Keynes, successful mixed economies and the banking crash never happened). Surely it is labours role to promote the alternative. Colonel I agree with what you say about social media and young people , 100 %. In thus respect Corbyn's opponents are 'dinosaurs', but he will have other problems of electability. Hopefully things may change EVENTUALLY in this respect. The internet opens up channels for discussion, dialogue and demoracy which we have not began to even imagine Hopefully young people will dominate this , and things will change The internet could facilitate MAJOR electoral reform (if the powerful would allow it/unfortunately it would threaten their control) which alongside the EU issue is one of the major fundamental problems in this country....the Politicians do not reflect the electorate by a long way. This results in 'us and them ' government, and very little collaborative/concensus government. ..This suits both sides of the current career Politicians whose FIRST concern is their OWN jobs and security.It would frighten them to acknowledge that others out there may know better than them and have a way of getting their voice heard. Similarly the internet offers a magnitude of opportunities to access to information ( which still needs scrutiny of course) |
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Post by ColonelMustard on Aug 14, 2015 7:24:47 GMT
I'm not on here much recently but I will say this, other than autheniticity, I think Corbyn's popularity is also down to the internet, social media and the rise independant media. It is another reason his demographic is younger. The ideas he talks about are being debated, discussed and shared and the mainstream media are powerless to ignore it, so they are following the interest. It is the Blairites who are the dinosaurs for not realising the game is changing, the power of the mainstream media is on the wain and thinking they need to perpetuate the extreme policies of neoliberalism and austerity through fear of disapproval by Billionaire owned newspapers. As though the internet was never invented (and Keynes, successful mixed economies and the banking crash never happened). Surely it is labours role to promote the alternative. Colonel I agree with shat you say about social media and young people , 100 %. In thus respect Corbyn's opponents are 'dinosaurs', but he will have other problems of electability. Hopefully things may change EVENTUALLY in this respect. The internet opens up channels for discussion, dialogue and demoracy which we have not began to even imagine Hopefully young people will dominate this , and things will change The internet could facilitate MAJOR electoral reform (if the powerful would allow it/unfortunately it would threaten their control) which alongside the EU issue is one of the major fundamental problems in this country....the Politicians do not reflect the electorate by a long way. This results in 'us and them ' government, and very little collaborative/concensus government. ..This suits both sides of the current career Politicians whose FIRST concern is their OWN jobs and security.It would frighten them to acknowledge that others out there may know better than them and have a way of getting their voice heard. Similarly the internet offers a magnitude of opportunities to access to information ( which still needs scrutiny of course) he will have problems of electability but I hope his populrity though autheniticity and integrity will inspire self confidence in decent youngsters to join politics and take on the machine. We may have greater change in 12 years time even if we has less in the next 8. Either way as a result of the information age I reckon the flaws of neoliberlism and unbridled markets are going to be harder and harder to hide to the point where even for those of a conservative nature, the fear of more of the same might become greater than a fear of some change. |
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Post by derrida1437 on Aug 14, 2015 7:31:58 GMT
Colonel I agree with shat you say about social media and young people , 100 %. In thus respect Corbyn's opponents are 'dinosaurs', but he will have other problems of electability. Hopefully things may change EVENTUALLY in this respect. The internet opens up channels for discussion, dialogue and demoracy which we have not began to even imagine Hopefully young people will dominate this , and things will change The internet could facilitate MAJOR electoral reform (if the powerful would allow it/unfortunately it would threaten their control) which alongside the EU issue is one of the major fundamental problems in this country....the Politicians do not reflect the electorate by a long way. This results in 'us and them ' government, and very little collaborative/concensus government. ..This suits both sides of the current career Politicians whose FIRST concern is their OWN jobs and security.It would frighten them to acknowledge that others out there may know better than them and have a way of getting their voice heard. Similarly the internet offers a magnitude of opportunities to access to information ( which still needs scrutiny of course) he will have problems of electability but I hope his populrity though autheniticity and integrity will inspire self confidence in decent youngsters to join politics and take on the machine. We may have greater change in 12 years time even if we has less in the next 8. Either way as a result of the information age I reckon the flaws of neoliberlism and unbridled markets are going to be harder and harder to hide to the point where even for those of a conservative nature, the fear of more of the same might become greater than a fear of some change. Yes. Unfettered capitalism needs to be kept in balance somewhat with deeper regulation. Major electoral reform needs to take place - STV would be my preferred choice. In terms of Corbyn's rise, it isn't necessarily down to his personal politics. A lot of it is borne out of the fact that he just offers something different to the conventional economic status quo. Labour members just need to weigh up what he's actually saying. For me, defence is a major concern with Corbyn. |
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Post by ColonelMustard on Aug 14, 2015 8:00:05 GMT
he will have problems of electability but I hope his populrity though autheniticity and integrity will inspire self confidence in decent youngsters to join politics and take on the machine. We may have greater change in 12 years time even if we has less in the next 8. Either way as a result of the information age I reckon the flaws of neoliberlism and unbridled markets are going to be harder and harder to hide to the point where even for those of a conservative nature, the fear of more of the same might become greater than a fear of some change. Yes. Unfettered capitalism needs to be kept in balance somewhat with deeper regulation. Major electoral reform needs to take place - STV would be my preferred choice. In terms of Corbyn's rise, it isn't necessarily down to his personal politics. A lot of it is borne out of the fact that he just offers something different to the conventional economic status quo. Labour members just need to weigh up what he's actually saying. For me, defence is a major concern with Corbyn. I reckon this is one area he would ultimately compromise - although not having our foreign policy dictated by the US is such a tempting prospect. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 14, 2015 8:06:25 GMT
Colonel I agree with shat you say about social media and young people , 100 %. In thus respect Corbyn's opponents are 'dinosaurs', but he will have other problems of electability. Hopefully things may change EVENTUALLY in this respect. The internet opens up channels for discussion, dialogue and demoracy which we have not began to even imagine Hopefully young people will dominate this , and things will change The internet could facilitate MAJOR electoral reform (if the powerful would allow it/unfortunately it would threaten their control) which alongside the EU issue is one of the major fundamental problems in this country....the Politicians do not reflect the electorate by a long way. This results in 'us and them ' government, and very little collaborative/concensus government. ..This suits both sides of the current career Politicians whose FIRST concern is their OWN jobs and security.It would frighten them to acknowledge that others out there may know better than them and have a way of getting their voice heard. Similarly the internet offers a magnitude of opportunities to access to information ( which still needs scrutiny of course) he will have problems of electability but I hope his populrity though autheniticity and integrity will inspire self confidence in decent youngsters to join politics and take on the machine. We may have greater change in 12 years time even if we has less in the next 8. Either way as a result of the information age I reckon the flaws of neoliberlism and unbridled markets are going to be harder and harder to hide to the point where even for those of a conservative nature, the fear of more of the same might become greater than a fear of some change. Very good! |
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Post by derrida1437 on Aug 14, 2015 8:18:29 GMT
Hmm.
Is this a game changer for Labour Party members? The Mother paper is backing Andy Burnham.
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Post by derrida1437 on Aug 14, 2015 8:26:54 GMT
Yes. Unfettered capitalism needs to be kept in balance somewhat with deeper regulation. Major electoral reform needs to take place - STV would be my preferred choice. In terms of Corbyn's rise, it isn't necessarily down to his personal politics. A lot of it is borne out of the fact that he just offers something different to the conventional economic status quo. Labour members just need to weigh up what he's actually saying. For me, defence is a major concern with Corbyn. I reckon this is one area he would ultimately compromise - although not having our foreign policy dictated by the US is such a tempting prospect. I hope you're right. I can certainly understand what you say about US hegemony in diplomatic affairs, but I'm not sure that would necessarily change under Corbyn. We'd need the U.S. if we had no multilateral defence network. I'm undecided whom to vote for. I'm with Corbyn on housing and welfare and unsure where he's going given his current stance on defence. He's changed his mind with the wind on EU policy, for example, which doesn't fill me with confidence in terms of his ability to lead the party. I like what Andy Burnham says on education and the economy. His manifesto reads well but it all depends on how it morphs into policy. Yvette Cooper is right when she says it's about time Labour had a female leader. But at what price? She could appease the left and right of the party. Liz Kendall is a non starter. All to play for. |
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Aug 14, 2015 8:35:28 GMT
33 pages of a bunch of right-wing people who vote for right-wing parties, saying they don't think a left-wing politician would be any good for a left-wing party.
Who'd a thunk it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2015 8:38:04 GMT
Well ......I think his appeal in the party is is a sad reflection of how misguided the party has reacted to a humiliating defeat .
All of a sudden we have a party full of mediocrity with no born leader and a party that has seen traditional Labour voters turn away towards UKIP.
The reason is quite simple . They have seen enough of the news headlines . They are sick of seeing the news dominated by terrorist plots , immigration , overcrowding in schools , Calais , and the immigrants coming into Europe via the Med.....etc etc . Labour has not been proactive or reassuring enough to allay their fears or provide a solution to this problem . Labour has simply chosen to hide behind the Conservatives apron . Since Corbyn has come on the scene and into the public spotlight , he has gone even further down the road of angering its core support by actively endorsing mass immigration , the withdrawal from the UN , and abandoning Trident altogether . One has to ask oneself if there is anything else he can think of to alienate the grass root Labour supporter anymore ?
The proof or evidence of what I'm saying is here on this board . There's at least 6 who I know are previous Labour supporters and no matter how loud the likes of Huddy , Billy no mates , and one or two others shout , there is no getting away from this simple fact . If you role out this model across the country as a whole , the numbers are massive .
I have a feeling however , that even if Corbyn wins this election , he will not last long at the helm . I hope so anyway .....
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 14, 2015 8:44:54 GMT
Well ......I think his appeal in the party is is a sad reflection of how misguided the party has reacted to a humiliating defeat . All of a sudden we have a party full of mediocrity with no born leader and a party that has seen traditional Labour voters turn away towards UKIP. The reason is quite simple . They have seen enough of the news headlines . They are sick of seeing the news dominated by terrorist plots , immigration , overcrowding in schools , Calais , and the immigrants coming into Europe via the Med.....etc etc . Labour has not been proactive or reassuring enough to allay their fears or provide a solution to this problem . Labour has simply chosen to hide behind the Conservatives apron . Since Corbyn has come on the scene and into the public spotlight , he has government even further down the road of angering its core support by actively endorsing mass immigration , the withdrawal from the UN , and abandoning Trident altogether . One has to ask oneself if there is anything else he can think of to alienate the grass root Labour supporter anymore ? The proof or evidence of what I'm saying is here on this board . There's at least 6 who I know are previous Labour supporters and no matter how loud the likes of Huddy , Billy no mates , and one or two others shout , there is no getting away from this simple fact . If you role out this model across the country as a whole , the numbers are massive . I have a feeling however , that even if Corbyn wins this election , he will not last long at the helm . I hope so anyway ..... Absolutely brilliant post. I agree 100 % again Mumf, which is pretty good considering that I only agree with myself 75% of the time.Still I suppose that is better than having a few different personalities and arguing with yourself on a messageboard. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 14, 2015 8:55:19 GMT
33 pages of a bunch of right-wing people who vote for right-wing parties, saying they don't think a left-wing politician would be any good for a left-wing party. Who'd a thunk it. DC That is not entirely correct. I am not right wing and do hope that Corbyn wins.He will be good for some ,but there is a good chance that he will split "the Party" , so he may not be good for the Party. He may be good for those who think themselves true socialists in a party which no longer represents them.The problem then is to actually get elected.To do this people outside the party need convincing. I suppose that it remains to be seen if he can do so. What is your view on membership of the EU and the forthcoming referendum from a Socialist/Labour/Communist party perspective? (genuinely interested). As you know the Morning Star has always been against membership and at present Corbyn is in favour of negotiating not ruling out the option of Leaving ( correct politics ftom HIS perspective at the moment).If he gets the leadership and if the party survives and internal debates begin I believe that he will support Exit. What do YOU think? |
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