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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 21:46:26 GMT
Like I said mate he hasn't got a clue For someone so concerned with my finances I hope he's not after a tap. I'm skint  He's all right he's got a pension too ....  |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 5, 2015 22:38:48 GMT
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Post by derrida1437 on Aug 5, 2015 22:56:28 GMT
I'd agree with the vast swathe of that piece. In fact the only thing I'd be inclined to comment on is the idea that the SDP were in any way right wing when they broke away from Labour; they were centre-left. But it's a moot point. Corbyn has got the Labour Party talking about "direction" and "policy" rather than "personality" at last. Love his politics or loathe it, Corbyn has been a breath of fresh air in that regard. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2015 5:29:44 GMT
The micro analysis of a man determined to push the Labour Party into obscurity .
The end .
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 6, 2015 7:12:45 GMT
IMHO, the main ISSUE/ARGUMENTS for the candidates who get into the final will not merely be what their policies are, but which candidate is likely to keep the party unified.( in addition to ' who is the best on the economy') The argument will centre on how far to the left can the party go and keep the right/centre on board. The actual VOTING /RESULT may depend upon how many of the new 'members ' will vote for Corbyn , (ie those attracted to the party by his policies , irrespective of the reasons to join) in addition to those who are more established members who have now been encouraged to come out of the closet.
As an aside, the way Labour have organised the electoral process does not bode well if they get in power, and leaves them open to criticism. Firstly the potential winner was only included to widen the debate, not to be taken too seriously.Secondly , to allow new members after the process was announced was a massive mistake ,not just recognised in hindsight.It may have energised the party and attracted a new enthusiastic group, particularly young people, attracted by Corbyn , which could be argued is to he welcomed. But the potential was there for ANY interest group to hijack the party.
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Post by derrida1437 on Aug 6, 2015 8:20:02 GMT
IMHO, the main ISSUE/ARGUMENTS for the candidates who get into the final will not merely be what their policies are, but which candidate is likely to keep the party unified.( in addition to ' who is the best on the economy') The argument will centre on how far to the left can the party go and keep the right/centre on board. The actual VOTING /RESULT may depend upon how many of the new 'members ' will vote for Corbyn , (ie those attracted to the party by his policies , irrespective of the reasons to join) in addition to those who are more established members who have now been encouraged to come out of the closet. As an aside, the way Labour have organised the electoral process does not bode well if they get in power, and leaves them open to criticism. Firstly the potential winner was only included to widen the debate, not to be taken too seriously.Secondly , to allow new members after the process was announced was a massive mistake ,not just recognised in hindsight.It may have energised the party and attracted a new enthusiastic group, particularly young people, attracted by Corbyn , which could be argued is to he welcomed. But the potential was there for ANY interest group to hijack the party. Whilst that may very well be true, until those outside the party know the result, they need to let Labour have the debate. I rather think that's the point, Various polls have got various people in the lead. As I've mentioned earlier, Corbyn has grabbed the media spotlight because he's offering an alternative to a centre-right socio-economic agenda, but most people I know inside the Labour Party are moderate. The biggest news for Labour since the general election has been the release of the Cruddas Research into why Labour lost. That's dynamite for Labour and, particularly, Corbyn. It's the reason most in Labour will like and enjoy Corbyn's time in the sun, but in the end will not vote for him. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 6, 2015 17:35:59 GMT
The micro analysis of a man determined to push the Labour Party into obscurity . The end . Wrong. It's the beginning. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2015 17:38:46 GMT
........of the end.
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Post by Biblical on Aug 6, 2015 18:13:41 GMT
The micro analysis of a man determined to push the Labour Party into obscurity . The end . Wrong. It's the beginning. Funny how people can see things so differently, I'm firmly in your camp on this one though Huddy. |
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 6, 2015 21:36:18 GMT
Before the Leadership campaign I must confess that I'd never heard of Jeremy Corbyn. When I first saw him I just laughed..he looked like my grandad. What a joke. Then I listened to quite a few Leadership Debates.
Andy Burnham looks like a Thunderbird puppet. He has the same set of anwsers irrespective of the questions. Talks in soundbites.
Yvette Cooper looks like she's about to shit herself. Always has a slightly clenched look on her face. Speaks a lot but say's nothing.
Worst of all Liz Kendall. Vaccous opportunist. Wrong party Liz.
But the more I listen to Corbyn the more I like him. Not just some of his policies (not all) but because he offers a genuine alternative to Right Wing policies currently on offer by The Tories and 'Labour Lite'.
What's the point of having two major political parties who are saying very similar things?
How does that benefit democracy?
I might not believe or agree in everything that Corbyn says but at least he makes me think. And he's also moving Labour back to their basic fundamental Self. Helping the most vulnerable and less able in Society rather than helping those who are most able ( largely through Inheritance) to Help Themselves.
And at least he offers an alternative to the Tories ( who've just given Institutional investors a Billion pounds by underselling RBS. Sadly lost on most people).
The problem with Labour is that it lost its way under Tony Blair and was flooded by New Labour MPs who were only interested in Power. Many would be indistinguishable in the Conservative Party. What Labour needs to do now is to reconnect with it's grass roots and it's core beliefs and values. Something it lost under Blair.
And for me Corbyn is the man to win back the Hearts and Minds of disillusioned Labour Party supporters...even though it won't be enough to win them a majority (or even a minority) at the next general election. Or the one after that.
And the one after that :-(
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 6, 2015 23:51:21 GMT
Before the Leadership campaign I must confess that I'd never heard of Jeremy Corbyn. When I first saw him I just laughed..he looked like my grandad. What a joke. Then I listened to quite a few Leadership Debates. Andy Burnham looks like a Thunderbird puppet. He has the same set of anwsers irrespective of the questions. Talks in soundbites. Yvette Cooper looks like she's about to shit herself. Always has a slightly clenched look on her face. Speaks a lot but say's nothing. Worst of all Liz Kendall. Vaccous opportunist. Wrong party Liz. But the more I listen to Corbyn the more I like him. Not just some of his policies (not all) but because he offers a genuine alternative to Right Wing policies currently on offer by The Tories and 'Labour Lite'. What's the point of having two major political parties who are saying very similar things? How does that benefit democracy? I might not believe or agree in everything that Corbyn says but at least he makes me think. And he's also moving Labour back to their basic fundamental Self. Helping the most vulnerable and less able in Society rather than helping those who are most able ( largely through Inheritance) to Help Themselves. And at least he offers an alternative to the Tories ( who've just given Institutional investors a Billion pounds by underselling RBS. Sadly lost on most people). The problem with Labour is that it lost its way under Tony Blair and was flooded by New Labour MPs who were only interested in Power. Many would be indistinguishable in the Conservative Party. What Labour needs to do now is to reconnect with it's grass roots and it's core beliefs and values. Something it lost under Blair. And for me Corbyn is the man to win back the Hearts and Minds of disillusioned Labour Party supporters...even though it won't be enough to win them a majority (or even a minority) at the next general election. Or the one after that. And the one after that :-( Good stuff ..as for 2020 well we'll see. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 0:06:20 GMT
Before the Leadership campaign I must confess that I'd never heard of Jeremy Corbyn. When I first saw him I just laughed..he looked like my grandad. What a joke. Then I listened to quite a few Leadership Debates. Andy Burnham looks like a Thunderbird puppet. He has the same set of anwsers irrespective of the questions. Talks in soundbites. Yvette Cooper looks like she's about to shit herself. Always has a slightly clenched look on her face. Speaks a lot but say's nothing. Worst of all Liz Kendall. Vaccous opportunist. Wrong party Liz. But the more I listen to Corbyn the more I like him. Not just some of his policies (not all) but because he offers a genuine alternative to Right Wing policies currently on offer by The Tories and 'Labour Lite'. What's the point of having two major political parties who are saying very similar things? How does that benefit democracy? I might not believe or agree in everything that Corbyn says but at least he makes me think. And he's also moving Labour back to their basic fundamental Self. Helping the most vulnerable and less able in Society rather than helping those who are most able ( largely through Inheritance) to Help Themselves. And at least he offers an alternative to the Tories ( who've just given Institutional investors a Billion pounds by underselling RBS. Sadly lost on most people). The problem with Labour is that it lost its way under Tony Blair and was flooded by New Labour MPs who were only interested in Power. Many would be indistinguishable in the Conservative Party. What Labour needs to do now is to reconnect with it's grass roots and it's core beliefs and values. Something it lost under Blair. And for me Corbyn is the man to win back the Hearts and Minds of disillusioned Labour Party supporters...even though it won't be enough to win them a majority (or even a minority) at the next general election. Or the one after that. And the one after that :-( Good stuff ..as for 2020 well we'll see. Not a hope in hell ....but it doesn't hurt to be optimistic .....you have to have something to cling on to after all ? |
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 7, 2015 0:12:34 GMT
I don't need anything to cling on to.
Speak for yourself.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 7, 2015 0:14:18 GMT
Before the Leadership campaign I must confess that I'd never heard of Jeremy Corbyn. When I first saw him I just laughed..he looked like my grandad. What a joke. Then I listened to quite a few Leadership Debates. Andy Burnham looks like a Thunderbird puppet. He has the same set of anwsers irrespective of the questions. Talks in soundbites. Yvette Cooper looks like she's about to shit herself. Always has a slightly clenched look on her face. Speaks a lot but say's nothing. Worst of all Liz Kendall. Vaccous opportunist. Wrong party Liz. But the more I listen to Corbyn the more I like him. Not just some of his policies (not all) but because he offers a genuine alternative to Right Wing policies currently on offer by The Tories and 'Labour Lite'. What's the point of having two major political parties who are saying very similar things? How does that benefit democracy? I might not believe or agree in everything that Corbyn says but at least he makes me think. And he's also moving Labour back to their basic fundamental Self. Helping the most vulnerable and less able in Society rather than helping those who are most able ( largely through Inheritance) to Help Themselves. And at least he offers an alternative to the Tories ( who've just given Institutional investors a Billion pounds by underselling RBS. Sadly lost on most people). The problem with Labour is that it lost its way under Tony Blair and was flooded by New Labour MPs who were only interested in Power. Many would be indistinguishable in the Conservative Party. What Labour needs to do now is to reconnect with it's grass roots and it's core beliefs and values. Something it lost under Blair. And for me Corbyn is the man to win back the Hearts and Minds of disillusioned Labour Party supporters...even though it won't be enough to win them a majority (or even a minority) at the next general election. Or the one after that. And the one after that :-( Good stuff ..as for 2020 well we'll see. Hopefully Huddy, sooner than that mate. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 7, 2015 0:18:16 GMT
Good stuff ..as for 2020 well we'll see. Not a hope in hell ....but it doesn't hurt to be optimistic .....you have to have something to cling on to after all ? Like many on here it seems you underestimate the man. Your problem not mine. |
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 7, 2015 0:23:35 GMT
'Understanding' takes a certain amount of intellectual/psychological thought.
Perhaps that explains things Huddy ;-)
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 7, 2015 0:26:27 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 7, 2015 0:27:54 GMT
Hopefully yes...of pseudo socialists like yourself. |
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 7, 2015 0:30:07 GMT
Hopefully yes...of pseudo socialists like yourself. Ex-Armed Forces Male Groupie more like ;-) |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 7, 2015 0:31:09 GMT
Wouldn't have thought your salary would be liable buddy...unless you've been promoted to Brigadier General?  You haven't a clue I may have got the official "rank" wrong. But as always I can spot a working class traitorous Tory a mile off ..Buddy |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 7, 2015 0:31:55 GMT
Hopefully yes...of pseudo socialists like yourself. Ex-Armed Forces Male Groupie more like ;-) Not a good idea to bring male admiration into the thread...as he does then go into meltdown.. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 7, 2015 0:34:01 GMT
Good stuff ..as for 2020 well we'll see. Not a hope in hell ....but it doesn't hurt to be optimistic .....you have to have something to cling on to after all ? Please do explain Bisp...why you believe he has no "hope in hell"? No wind up..I'm genuinely interested in why you state this. |
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Aug 7, 2015 0:36:28 GMT
Ex-Armed Forces Male Groupie more like ;-) Not a good idea to bring male admiration into the thread...as he does then go into meltdown.. Especially when they're beating his left wing credentials ;-) Oooh !!! |
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Post by salopstick on Aug 7, 2015 5:59:33 GMT
I may have got the official "rank" wrong. But as always I can spot a working class traitorous Tory a mile off ..Buddy 20 pages before your name calling starts on me. There you go, when proved wrong you revert to type, Quite funny really because thread after thread, one mistake pointed out after another you revert to name calling. Sticks and stones as my my dead socialist father used to say. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 6:24:58 GMT
Hopefully yes...of pseudo socialists like yourself. Listen to me Arsewipe ..... If you want to go down the road of nasty remarks like this , then remember I have just as much right to report you as any one else . You are one big mardarse girl . Mumf |
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Post by Biblical on Aug 7, 2015 8:34:53 GMT
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Post by derrida1437 on Aug 7, 2015 9:13:52 GMT
It's a decent article that. I don't think anybody would say that Corbyn is unlikeable, or that those on the moderate left dislike what he says. That's not his problem. Corbyn's problem is, as The Jon Crudass Report suggests, that the electorate rejected Labour at the last general election because Labour were perceived to be anti-austerity-lite under Milliband. The electorate have largely accepted that there is a certain degree of austerity required. Whilst Corbyn's stance is honourable and, to a certain extent, he's right on housing and welfare (the vast majority of welfare spending goes on pensioners, not the unemployed or disabled) the electorate have rejected his economic stance. Given that, it seems a little bonkers to them adopt the very same economic policy that the electorate have just rejected. Labour need to decide where to make cuts and how - not if the need to be any. Labour need to have the debate to understand where they went wrong. That includes listening to both Corbn, Burnham, Cooper and Crudass Report. Labour people haven't got the stomach for Liz Kendall. I don't see Corbyn winning because Labour don't want to be a party of opposition anymore. If you want to change things you have to be in government. That's the game Labour are in now. It's not 1983. |
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 7, 2015 9:18:27 GMT
It's an individual's opinion. Lots of individuals think all sorts of stuff - as demonstrated on this board. The "issue" this thread is dealing with is whose leadership would best deliver an election victory for Labour. The pro-Corbyn faction believe a radical left wing alternative to the Tory austerity approach will do the trick; the other camp believe (I think by and large) that whoever occupies the centre ground wins elections. In other words Corbyn, regardless of being a decent bloke, is an electoral liability. History suggests the latter are most likely to be right. |
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Post by derrida1437 on Aug 7, 2015 9:27:20 GMT
Not a hope in hell ....but it doesn't hurt to be optimistic .....you have to have something to cling on to after all ? Like many on here it seems you underestimate the man. Your problem not mine. I understand what you're saying, and in all fairness, Corbyn has lit up an often bland Labour leadership race. But I always draw Labour members back to The Crudass Report into why Labour lost the last general election. The reason Labour lost that election was because the public rejected Labour's perceived anti-austerity economic stance put forward by Milliband - a stance now proposed more vehemently by Jeremy Corbyn. I just feel that Corbyn's supporters need to read that report. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 9:31:56 GMT
It's an individual's opinion. Lots of individuals think all sorts of stuff - as demonstrated on this board. The "issue" this thread is dealing with is whose leadership would best deliver an election victory for Labour. The pro-Corbyn faction believe a radical left wing alternative to the Tory austerity approach will do the trick; the other camp believe (I think by and large) that whoever occupies the centre ground wins elections. In other words Corbyn, regardless of being a decent bloke, is an electoral liability. History suggests the latter are most likely to be right. Absolutely sir..... Nail on head. Sometimes it is better to side with your bitter rival than to spend the next decade in the wilderness. Its a pretty simple concept that many Labour supporters cannot grasp. They seem to prefer to hide behind their left wing principles and Bury their heads in the sand with veiled side swipes at those they see as the enemy. They do not see that they themselves are the ones who have driven people away from the party. |
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