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Post by Trouserdog on Jan 4, 2015 12:03:07 GMT
The club most definately back Pulis in getting promoted with a number of costly loans, not ridiculousvanounts but I would have guessed between 5 and 10m of additional investment was made that season when compared to what the Icelanders had used as a budget each year. The anticipated windfall at that time for Prem football was around 30m of prize money plus the halo effect if additional crowds endorsements etc in the following year. As such if we spent nothing in the first year of per need have been up around 30m. We effectively had no players and no costs prior to buying those players in year 1. The job Pulis did was excellent right up until we made the FA Cup final. We made some excellent signings good signings and some poor ones in the first three years. We were not an attractive proposition to players and we had to cut our cloth accordingly. Additionally the clubs infrasturcure for foreign scouting and the academy was poor. We were definately lacking here and fingers can be pointed at Pulis for this. Though with a stronger director of football maybe this shoukd not have been the case. Following the FA Cup final if I remember correctly we splashed all of the pot on Crouch Palacios and Jerome. At the time I said the crouch palacios deal for a club our size was insane and was up there with the Ibrahimovic swap for 30m and Eto executed by Barcelona in terms of poor value. However even that deal in the context of increased prem prize money was probably not so ridiculous. Pulis' last season was shocking, I personally believe he three his toys out because he wanted further investment and was not allowed it. He knew he had made errors and effectively wasted 30m and did not have the network to be able to get players at low cost to push the club on in the way that Coates wanted. Fair summary, this. TP's style of management is short-term, and there was no way we could sustain the financial strategy that his limited outlook needed. I always felt that TP would have delivered similar results on a shoestring budget- once he had serious money then he just seemed to lose the plot. That was always the major gripe I had with him; he never looked any further than the next clean sheet, and to dismiss the academy and foreign markets the way he did was an appallingly short-sighted approach. Coates knew this, but just couldn't bring himself to pull the trigger while results on the pitch remained satisfactory. That final season was just utter dross after Xmas. It was like everyone had given up and we were just playing out time. After watching him dismantle a winning system for the umpteenth time (after we beat Liverpool 3-1) to revert to booting it up to an isolated Crouch, I was desperate to see him gone. www.statto.com/football/teams/stoke-city/2012-2013/resultsIt was certainly the Crouch/Palacios deal that saw the worm turn in the boardroom as well. I like Crouch as a player but he was dreadful in TP's system, yet the Capped One would neither change his tactics or admit that the 10m he'd spent on a 30-year-old was not working out that well. As for Palacios- that was just gross negligence. The summer of 2011 was definitely the point it started to go wrong.
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Post by swampmongrel on Jan 4, 2015 12:06:54 GMT
To be fair. The Geoff321 and the MarkWolstanton versions are both as misleading and agenda driven as each other. Anyone seeking an objective appraisal of Pulis and his time at Stoke would be advised to disregard both of them. I'm sure Geoff and I cannot contain ourselves with excitement at the thought of you actually posting something that appraises anything with a little more substance than the sum total of nothing. Lets have your objective appraisal to put us toshame. Geoff is selectively using data. You've not actually offered any data but have made one or two unsupported assertions. I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that I'm too busy to offer my own 'objective' appraisal so you're spared that. I do think WCH gets it mostly right a few posts above. My suspicion is that an impartial observer who trawled through the data would come to a broadly similar conclusion.
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Post by MrMagic on Jan 4, 2015 14:00:06 GMT
I think it was twelve months too late, but I take your point. You can't sack a manager until it's clear he's lost the plot , he couldn't have been sacked a year earlier although in hindsight his last year was awful He lost the plot during the European adventure. Should've been sacked whilst Martinez was being chucked up In the air in front of the tunnel. All history now though & only my opinion
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Post by harryburrows on Jan 4, 2015 14:04:12 GMT
You can't sack a manager until it's clear he's lost the plot , he couldn't have been sacked a year earlier although in hindsight his last year was awful He lost the plot during the European adventure. Should've been sacked whilst Martinez was being chucked up In the air in front of the tunnel. All history now though & only my opinion Absolutely but it wasn't a sackable offence was it though , a bit like divorce I wish I'd had mine 5 years earlier than I did but you have to reach the end of the process
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Jan 4, 2015 14:19:16 GMT
I'm sure Geoff and I cannot contain ourselves with excitement at the thought of you actually posting something that appraises anything with a little more substance than the sum total of nothing. Lets have your objective appraisal to put us toshame. Geoff is selectively using data. You've not actually offered any data but have made one or two unsupported assertions. I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that I'm too busy to offer my own 'objective' appraisal so you're spared that. I do think WCH gets it mostly right a few posts above. My suspicion is that an impartial observer who trawled through the data would come to a broadly similar conclusion. I'm sure once you find a minute you will discover I have previously provided the "data" to satisfy your objective scrutiny. When you can find the time to trawl please feel free to come back and offer up some "impartial" observations. I'm convinced Geoff and I will find them to be more rewarding than your time constrained throw away conclusions. Sorry to have taken up so much of your valuable time.
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Post by crownmeking on Jan 4, 2015 14:31:40 GMT
Christ, a lot of you live in the past don't you.
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Post by swampmongrel on Jan 4, 2015 14:33:59 GMT
Geoff is selectively using data. You've not actually offered any data but have made one or two unsupported assertions. I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that I'm too busy to offer my own 'objective' appraisal so you're spared that. I do think WCH gets it mostly right a few posts above. My suspicion is that an impartial observer who trawled through the data would come to a broadly similar conclusion. I'm sure once you find a minute you will discover I have previously provided the "data" to satisfy your objective scrutiny. When you can find the time to trawl please feel free to come back and offer up some "impartial" observations. I'm convinced Geoff and I will find them to be more rewarding than your time constrained throw away conclusions. Sorry to have taken up so much of your valuable time. I checked your posts and I haven't seen any solid evidence to support your claims. I'm talking specially about the contention that the money spent on loans/agent fees dwarfed the transfer spend.
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Post by alster on Jan 4, 2015 14:52:03 GMT
I think it was twelve months too late, but I take your point. You can't sack a manager until it's clear he's lost the plot , he couldn't have been sacked a year earlier although in hindsight his last year was awful What utter nonsense. You can sack a manager or not renew his contract any time you god damned want to. I would have sacked him at the end of every season he was here but he never had me to lose. I think people who he had, had on side started losing faith during the Europa season and in general the fanbase had completely had enough of it the following season. Which makes Shieky's analysis pretty smack on. Some people will never be on side because they just don't like what you do. Others offer blind loyalty and will remain on side whatever you do. When the ones in between lose faith in you, you're in the shit.
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Post by harryburrows on Jan 4, 2015 14:58:44 GMT
You can't sack a manager until it's clear he's lost the plot , he couldn't have been sacked a year earlier although in hindsight his last year was awful What utter nonsense. You can sack a manager or not renew his contract any time you god damned want to. I would have sacked him at the end of every season he was here but he never had me to lose. I think people who he had, had on side started losing faith during the Europa season and in general the fanbase had completely had enough of it the following season. Which makes Shieky's analysis pretty smack on. Some people will never be on side because they just don't like what you do. Others offer blind loyalty and will remain on side whatever you do. When the ones in between lose faith in you, you're in the shit. Just your opinion of pulis which I won't rubbish although I totally disagree
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Post by MrMagic on Jan 4, 2015 15:11:11 GMT
I'm sure once you find a minute you will discover I have previously provided the "data" to satisfy your objective scrutiny. When you can find the time to trawl please feel free to come back and offer up some "impartial" observations. I'm convinced Geoff and I will find them to be more rewarding than your time constrained throw away conclusions. Sorry to have taken up so much of your valuable time. I checked your posts and I haven't seen any solid evidence to support your claims. I'm talking specially about the contention that the money spent on loans/agent fees dwarfed the transfer spend. Didn't we spend £1m on shola ameobis adventure at the Brit alone?
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Post by elystokie on Jan 4, 2015 15:12:51 GMT
You can't sack a manager until it's clear he's lost the plot , he couldn't have been sacked a year earlier although in hindsight his last year was awful What utter nonsense. You can sack a manager or not renew his contract any time you god damned want to. I would have sacked him at the end of every season he was here but he never had me to lose. I think people who he had, had on side started losing faith during the Europa season and in general the fanbase had completely had enough of it the following season. Which makes Shieky's analysis pretty smack on. Some people will never be on side because they just don't like what you do. Others offer blind loyalty and will remain on side whatever you do. When the ones in between lose faith in you, you're in the shit. I'm with you, he never had me to lose either. I don't think he was ever that far from losing the neutrals to be honest, due to the style of play once the results go to shit there's nothing.
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Post by tazi on Jan 4, 2015 15:32:44 GMT
What utter nonsense. You can sack a manager or not renew his contract any time you god damned want to. I would have sacked him at the end of every season he was here but he never had me to lose. I think people who he had, had on side started losing faith during the Europa season and in general the fanbase had completely had enough of it the following season. Which makes Shieky's analysis pretty smack on. Some people will never be on side because they just don't like what you do. Others offer blind loyalty and will remain on side whatever you do. When the ones in between lose faith in you, you're in the shit. I'm with you, he never had me to lose either. I don't think he was ever that far from losing the neutrals to be honest, due to the style of play once the results go to shit there's nothing. When reading that last part I couldn't help but be thinking of big Sam. So quite frankly what you say is absolute bollocks of the highest order. Edit - Unless of course you meant big Sam been the exception.
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Post by tazi on Jan 4, 2015 15:35:32 GMT
You can't sack a manager until it's clear he's lost the plot , he couldn't have been sacked a year earlier although in hindsight his last year was awful What utter nonsense. You can sack a manager or not renew his contract any time you god damned want to. I would have sacked him at the end of every season he was here but he never had me to lose. I think people who he had, had on side started losing faith during the Europa season and in general the fanbase had completely had enough of it the following season. Which makes Shieky's analysis pretty smack on. Some people will never be on side because they just don't like what you do. Others offer blind loyalty and will remain on side whatever you do. When the ones in between lose faith in you, you're in the shit. You'd have sacked him at the end of every season he was here..... Yeah, righto. Edit - in the days of Alan Ball , Chris Kamara and many many more you'd have wanted them sacked every 45 minutes then. Priceless shit that after our most successful season in donkey's years you'd have sacked him. FFS
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Post by alster on Jan 4, 2015 15:47:52 GMT
What utter nonsense. You can sack a manager or not renew his contract any time you god damned want to. I would have sacked him at the end of every season he was here but he never had me to lose. I think people who he had, had on side started losing faith during the Europa season and in general the fanbase had completely had enough of it the following season. Which makes Shieky's analysis pretty smack on. Some people will never be on side because they just don't like what you do. Others offer blind loyalty and will remain on side whatever you do. When the ones in between lose faith in you, you're in the shit. Just your opinion of pulis which I won't rubbish although I totally disagree Its absolutely nothing to do with Pulis. You could replace his name with any other. Its an analysis that there will always be people against you (in Pulis' particular case I fell into this category). There will always be people who you could kick their dog, shoot their cat and shag their Wife and they would still defend you (Staffordstokie eg). Theres not actually that much you can do to influence their opinion, they've made their mind up and thats it. The rest, the ones in between, the waverers when they lose faith in you, you're in the shit. It applies to football, politics and I should imagine absolutely shit loads of other things. Its neither Pro or Anti Pulis. personally I couldn't stand him but now he's completely irrelevant to me.
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Post by alster on Jan 4, 2015 16:00:59 GMT
What utter nonsense. You can sack a manager or not renew his contract any time you god damned want to. I would have sacked him at the end of every season he was here but he never had me to lose. I think people who he had, had on side started losing faith during the Europa season and in general the fanbase had completely had enough of it the following season. Which makes Shieky's analysis pretty smack on. Some people will never be on side because they just don't like what you do. Others offer blind loyalty and will remain on side whatever you do. When the ones in between lose faith in you, you're in the shit. You'd have sacked him at the end of every season he was here..... Yeah, righto. Edit - in the days of Alan Ball , Chris Kamara and many many more you'd have wanted them sacked every 45 minutes then. Priceless shit that after our most successful season in donkey's years you'd have sacked him. FFS What is it about not believing in the mans methods that you simply can't seem to grasp. I didn't like him, had no time for his methods or his approach to the game and football management in general. I wasn't a fan to put it mildly. You were, I understand that. Whats your issue?
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Post by tazi on Jan 4, 2015 16:04:55 GMT
You'd have sacked him at the end of every season he was here..... Yeah, righto. Edit - in the days of Alan Ball , Chris Kamara and many many more you'd have wanted them sacked every 45 minutes then. Priceless shit that after our most successful season in donkey's years you'd have sacked him. FFS What is it about not believing in the mans methods that you simply can't seem to grasp. I didn't like him, had no time for his methods or his approach to the game and football management in general. I wasn't a fan to put it mildly. You were, I understand that. Whats your issue? [bra Just can't believe what I read that you wanted him sacked at the end of every season. Would understand a vale fan saying that. Fcuk me, you'd sack him at the end of every season. WOW. Edit - Did you find the time to go to the FA cup semis and final or find time experience that European journey?. Surely you didn't go with having no to time for his methods or his approach to the game. Surely not.
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Post by MrMagic on Jan 4, 2015 16:11:40 GMT
What is it about not believing in the mans methods that you simply can't seem to grasp. I didn't like him, had no time for his methods or his approach to the game and football management in general. I wasn't a fan to put it mildly. You were, I understand that. Whats your issue? [bra Just can't believe what I read that you wanted him sacked at the end of every season. Would understand a vale fan saying that. Fcuk me, you'd sack him at the end of every season. WOW. Edit - Did you find the time to go to the FA cup semis and final or find time experience that European journey?. Surely you didn't go with having no to time for his methods or his approach to the game. Surely not. Would you get rid of LMH tazi?
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Post by tazi on Jan 4, 2015 16:13:32 GMT
[bra Just can't believe what I read that you wanted him sacked at the end of every season. Would understand a vale fan saying that. Fcuk me, you'd sack him at the end of every season. WOW. Edit - Did you find the time to go to the FA cup semis and final or find time experience that European journey?. Surely you didn't go with having no to time for his methods or his approach to the game. Surely not. Would you get rid of LMH tazi? No.
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Post by MrMagic on Jan 4, 2015 16:14:25 GMT
Would you get rid of LMH tazi? No. Fair enough.
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Post by harryburrows on Jan 4, 2015 16:23:38 GMT
Just your opinion of pulis which I won't rubbish although I totally disagree Its absolutely nothing to do with Pulis. You could replace his name with any other. Its an analysis that there will always be people against you (in Pulis' particular case I fell into this category). There will always be people who you could kick their dog, shoot their cat and shag their Wife and they would still defend you (Staffordstokie eg). Theres not actually that much you can do to influence their opinion, they've made their mind up and thats it. The rest, the ones in between, the waverers when they lose faith in you, you're in the shit. It applies to football, politics and I should imagine absolutely shit loads of other things. Its neither Pro or Anti Pulis. personally I couldn't stand him but now he's completely irrelevant to me. This is pretty contradictory , to say it's nothing to do with pulis and then to say you didn't like anything about his management over a long period . I did think he had run out of ideas at the end and supported Coates decision . But to rubbish his contribution in the most exciting period for a generation is nonsense
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Post by tazi on Jan 4, 2015 16:29:32 GMT
I'm just intrigued as to why alster wanted him sacked after every season.
Kept us up in the championship - when did you think that you wanted him sacked?.
Consolidated us as a championship club the following season - when did you think that you wanted him sacked?.
Got us promotion to the premier league - when did you think that you wanted him sacked?.
Kept us in the premier league - when did you think you wanted him sacked?.
Got us to an FA cup semi final and in it we played the best football seen in goodness knows how many decades in blitzing Bolton 5.0 - when did you think you wanted him sacked?.
Maybe you wanted him sacked during our European adventures abroad 'which was amazing'. By the way.
Surely with not liking the man and hating everything that his footballing standards bring you couldn't possibly have contributed to any of the above and especially with you wanting him sacked every single year.
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Post by elystokie on Jan 4, 2015 16:59:14 GMT
I'm with you, he never had me to lose either. I don't think he was ever that far from losing the neutrals to be honest, due to the style of play once the results go to shit there's nothing. When reading that last part I couldn't help but be thinking of big Sam. So quite frankly what you say is absolute bollocks of the highest order. Edit - Unless of course you meant big Sam been the exception. I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Post by alster on Jan 4, 2015 17:06:12 GMT
I'm just intrigued as to why alster wanted him sacked after every season. Kept us up in the championship - when did you think that you wanted him sacked?. Consolidated us as a championship club the following season - when did you think that you wanted him sacked?. Got us promotion to the premier league - when did you think that you wanted him sacked?. Kept us in the premier league - when did you think you wanted him sacked?. Got us to an FA cup semi final and in it we played the best football seen in goodness knows how many decades in blitzing Bolton 5.0 - when did you think you wanted him sacked?. Maybe you wanted him sacked during our European adventures abroad 'which was amazing'. By the way. Surely with not liking the man and hating everything that his footballing standards bring you couldn't possibly have contributed to any of the above and especially with you wanting him sacked every single year. Yeah thats right at the end of each and every season I'd have said thanks very much for your contribution and opted for a different direction. I'm in no way denying the achievements in his time but was never a fan of the way he made them. To pick a couple of those achievements Promotion and FA cup final seasons, I was not generally impressed with his management or the football on offer in either of those seasons. Did I go? Yes. Did I never enjoy ANY of it? Of course I enjoyed the odd game. Did I contribute? Not in my own opinion, I payed to watch my club, if thats contributing I must have contributed during the time of each and every manager since Durban (1st time around not his shortlived stabilisation job after Kamara's car wreck of a season) who I really didn't like either.
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Post by tazi on Jan 4, 2015 17:06:44 GMT
When reading that last part I couldn't help but be thinking of big Sam. So quite frankly what you say is absolute bollocks of the highest order. Edit - Unless of course you meant big Sam been the exception. I have no idea what you're talking about. Big sam seen by everyone on here as an even bigger footballing dinosaur than Pulis and yet when he was losing matches in a manner of dinosaur football it certainly wasn't the end for him was it when the results went shit.
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Post by alster on Jan 4, 2015 17:09:26 GMT
When reading that last part I couldn't help but be thinking of big Sam. So quite frankly what you say is absolute bollocks of the highest order. Edit - Unless of course you meant big Sam been the exception. I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't think he knows either.
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Post by padders01 on Jan 4, 2015 17:09:46 GMT
I have no idea what you're talking about. Big sam seen by everyone on here as an even bigger footballing dinosaur than Pulis and yet when he was losing matches in a manner of dinosaur football it certainly wasn't the end for him was it when the results went shit. Ah! Sam knew he needed to improve his strikers, he did that with some fantastic signings in the summer. Also added Alex Song into midfield. Pulis spent millions on strikers with very little pace and refused to exploit the foreign market! He never replaced Fuller and he spent over £30m trying to. He resorted to big tall strikers and lump it up to.
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Post by tazi on Jan 4, 2015 17:10:09 GMT
I'm just intrigued as to why alster wanted him sacked after every season. Kept us up in the championship - when did you think that you wanted him sacked?. Consolidated us as a championship club the following season - when did you think that you wanted him sacked?. Got us promotion to the premier league - when did you think that you wanted him sacked?. Kept us in the premier league - when did you think you wanted him sacked?. Got us to an FA cup semi final and in it we played the best football seen in goodness knows how many decades in blitzing Bolton 5.0 - when did you think you wanted him sacked?. Maybe you wanted him sacked during our European adventures abroad 'which was amazing'. By the way. Surely with not liking the man and hating everything that his footballing standards bring you couldn't possibly have contributed to any of the above and especially with you wanting him sacked every single year. Yeah thats right at the end of each and every season I'd have said thanks very much for your contribution and opted for a different direction. I'm in no way denying the achievements in his time but was never a fan of the way he made them. To pick a couple of those achievements Promotion and FA cup final seasons, I was not generally impressed with his management or the football on offer in either of those seasons. Did I go? Yes. Did I never enjoy ANY of it? Of course I enjoyed the odd game. Did I contribute? Not in my own opinion, I payed to watch my club, if thats contributing I must have contributed during the time of each and every manager since Durban (1st time around not his shortlived stabilisation job after Kamara's car wreck of a season) who I really didn't like either. I'm amazed you actually found the stomach to actuality enjoy some of it.
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Post by tazi on Jan 4, 2015 17:12:55 GMT
Big sam seen by everyone on here as an even bigger footballing dinosaur than Pulis and yet when he was losing matches in a manner of dinosaur football it certainly wasn't the end for him was it when the results went shit. Ah! Sam knew he needed to improve his strikers, he did that with some fantastic signings in the summer. Also added Alex Song into midfield. Pulis spent millions on strikers with very little pace and refused to exploit the foreign market! He never replaced Fuller and he spent over £30m trying to. He resorted to big tall strikers and lump it up to. So it's not actually the end for a manager then as Eley tried to make out?. Edit - Pulis also admitted to where he went wrong to in that he took his eye off the ball and let players get away with things that he normally wouldn't so whose to say he couldn't have sorted it out either.
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Post by padders01 on Jan 4, 2015 17:22:43 GMT
Ah! Sam knew he needed to improve his strikers, he did that with some fantastic signings in the summer. Also added Alex Song into midfield. Pulis spent millions on strikers with very little pace and refused to exploit the foreign market! He never replaced Fuller and he spent over £30m trying to. He resorted to big tall strikers and lump it up to. So it's not actually the end for a manager then as Eley tried to make out?. Absolutely not, but you must try to change/improve when the football was getting as tideous as it was for both clubs. Both boards backed their managers. Sam's transfers this summer have been light years ahead of Pulis, bearing in mind the style if football both managers play. This thread along with the majority of the Pulis posts are pathetic. Pulis did a great job for us. Spent a hell of a lot of money doing so. It was absolutely the correct thing to do sacking Pulis when we did. Crowds were at a all time low since promotion and the football on offer was embarrassing and horrendous to watch. Appointing Hughes was a genius appointment. Can't fault it all. I can tell you this for certain, Pulis would never have been able to attract a player like Bojan. However we would never have been looking for a player like Bojan if it wasn't for Pulis grinding out results in those first two seasons.
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Post by tazi on Jan 4, 2015 17:23:47 GMT
So it's not actually the end for a manager then as Eley tried to make out?. Absolutely not, but you must try to change/improve when the football was getting as tideous as it was for both clubs. Both boards backed their managers. Sam's transfers this summer have been light years ahead of Pulis, bearing in mind the style if football both managers play. This thread along with the majority of the Pulis posts are pathetic. Pulis did a great job for us. Spent a hell of a lot of money doing so. It was absolutely the correct thing to do sacking Pulis when we did. Crowds were at a all time low since promotion and the football on offer was embarrassing and horrendous to watch. Appointing Hughes was a genius appointment. Can't fault it all. I can tell you this for certain, Pulis would never have been able to attract a player like Bojan. However we would never have been looking for a player like Bojan if it wasn't for Pulis grinding out results in those first two seasons. Only read the first two lines and you're correct.
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