|
Heysel
Apr 16, 2014 7:55:26 GMT
Post by RAF on Apr 16, 2014 7:55:26 GMT
Yes - I fucking have. What you said is still really dumb. I'd say satirical but you are entitled to your opinion. Spactirical I'll grant you. H
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 16, 2014 8:00:53 GMT
Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 16, 2014 8:00:53 GMT
I'd say satirical but you are entitled to your opinion. Spactirical I'll grant you. H It would be really intriguing what some these fags on Police horse, Heysel, scouse hating diverters from the issue at hand would have done in the Hillsborough families situation though isn't it. Presumably fuck all, if you take their constant protestations to a natural conclusion.
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 16, 2014 8:07:49 GMT
Post by mcf on Apr 16, 2014 8:07:49 GMT
Spactirical I'll grant you. H It would be really intriguing what some these fags on Police horse, Heysel, scouse hating diverters from the issue at hand would have done in the Hillsborough families situation though isn't it. Presumably fuck all, if you take their constant protestations to a natural conclusion. To be fair though Shakester...no one is having a go at the families. I've not see a single post that wouldn't suggest nothing but pride and admiration for what they have achieved. I wouldn't expect them to have even the slightest concern outside getting 'justice' for their chidren.
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 16, 2014 8:11:52 GMT
Post by partickpotter on Apr 16, 2014 8:11:52 GMT
Yes - I fucking have. What you said is still really dumb. I'd say satirical but you are entitled to your opinion. Every thread on the tragedy of Hillsborough brings out the same argument. And it's one that will never get resolved because the two sides are arguing separate points. Actually both sides are valid (apart from the odd bam). What then happens is folk get more and more angry and start making more and more outlandish comments - for example your comment about how folks in SOT would react. Dumb or satire - it's something said out of exasperation. But, from time to time, these threads throw up something new. On this occasion that excellent piece from Liverpool on Heysel.
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 16, 2014 8:13:27 GMT
Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 16, 2014 8:13:27 GMT
It would be really intriguing what some these fags on Police horse, Heysel, scouse hating diverters from the issue at hand would have done in the Hillsborough families situation though isn't it. Presumably fuck all, if you take their constant protestations to a natural conclusion. To be fair though Shakester...no one is having a go at the families. I've not see a single post that wouldn't suggest nothing but pride and admiration for what they have achieved. I wouldn't expect them to have even the slightest concern outside getting 'justice' for their chidren. So what exactly is it merk about the process that so appals you and others?
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 16, 2014 8:22:51 GMT
Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 16, 2014 8:22:51 GMT
I'd say satirical but you are entitled to your opinion. Every thread on the tragedy of Hillsborough brings out the same argument. And it's one that will never get resolved because the two sides are arguing separate points. Actually both sides are valid (apart from the odd bam). What then happens is folk get more and more angry and start making more and more outlandish comments - for example your comment about how folks in SOT would react. Dumb or satire - it's something said out of exasperation. But, from time to time, these threads throw up something new. On this occasion that excellent piece from Liverpool on Heysel. Goodness me Partick, if you think that's what I really think about what the people of SOT would do the I despair. I even highlighted the bit about 'if people on this board are anything to go by' to highlight it was a piss take to try and get to the natural conclusion of the views of those who feel the need to post about Heysel on the anniversary of Hillsborough. What is the end game here?
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 16, 2014 8:30:47 GMT
Post by mcf on Apr 16, 2014 8:30:47 GMT
To be fair though Shakester...no one is having a go at the families. I've not see a single post that wouldn't suggest nothing but pride and admiration for what they have achieved. I wouldn't expect them to have even the slightest concern outside getting 'justice' for their chidren. So what exactly is it merk about the process that so appals you and others? It's all been said before. The fact that so many people try and lay all of the blame at the feet of the police and absolve all supporters of responsibility. I'm sure I heard on the radio that the judge on the latest enquiry had said something along the lines that families would have to brace themselves that other supporters may not have helped. I've seen the footage like everybody else. Even when 'justice' has been served and coppers have gone to prison, and the 'lies' will have been corrected there is still a massive reluctance to admit why we got to where we were on that day. Having this tragedy magnified above any other doesn't help either.
|
|
|
Post by RAF on Apr 16, 2014 8:39:20 GMT
So what exactly is it merk about the process that so appals you and others? It's all been said before. The fact that so many people try and lay all of the blame at the feet of the police and absolve all supporters of responsibility. I'm sure I heard on the radio that the judge on the latest enquiry had said something along the lines that families would have to brace themselves that other supporters may not have helped. I've seen the footage like everybody else. Even when 'justice' has been served and coppers have gone to prison, and the 'lies' will have been corrected there is still a massive reluctance to admit why we got to where we were on that day. Having this tragedy magnified above any other doesn't help either. I think the hypocrisy of the scousers singing about Munich doesn't really sit well either. I really don't think anyone has a problem with the families getting some peace, it's the pious hypocritical stance of scousers in general that gets on a lot of peoples tits, and I'm not just talking about Hillsborough, I'm talking about Hysel, Suarez and the whole woe is me victim scouse mentality. H
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 16, 2014 8:44:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by partickpotter on Apr 16, 2014 8:44:55 GMT
Every thread on the tragedy of Hillsborough brings out the same argument. And it's one that will never get resolved because the two sides are arguing separate points. Actually both sides are valid (apart from the odd bam). What then happens is folk get more and more angry and start making more and more outlandish comments - for example your comment about how folks in SOT would react. Dumb or satire - it's something said out of exasperation. But, from time to time, these threads throw up something new. On this occasion that excellent piece from Liverpool on Heysel. Goodness me Partick, if you think that's what I really think about what the people of SOT would do the I despair. I even highlighted the bit about 'if people on this board are anything to go by' to highlight it was a piss take to try and get to the natural conclusion of the views of those who feel the need to post about Heysel on the anniversary of Hillsborough. What is the end game here? I wish there was an end game - that these circular arguments would stop. Maybe that both sides accept there is a middle ground as set out in the aforementioned article.
|
|
|
Post by foxysgloves on Apr 16, 2014 8:48:21 GMT
quite the opposite millsy...it would be a remembrance day for only soldiers from Liverpool wouldn't it? I think that is the point that has tried to be made over the last week. i think you and your ilk off this board should show some more respect and decency to the people (not me included mind) on this board that do care about what happened to the 96 but still don't see everything the same way. i haven't made ANY point whatsoever over who or who wasn't to blame at Hillsborough Mcf, i simply stated that today has fuck all to do with Heysel.....fair enough if people want to carry on the argument as and when, i have no issue with that (and myself have asked why we don't remember the Bradford, Ibrox victims etc.) but that is a completely separate matter to what today is about; today is not about who's fault it was, whether other victims of other tragedies should be remembered, why Liverpool FC don't remember Heysel etc. it is purely and simply about having one day of remembrance for the 96 that died 25 years ago today. apportioning blame etc. is a separate issue and one that is being dealt with in a legal fashion, as it should be. that is NOT what today is about AT ALL!!!! Heysel DOES have a remembrance day in Liverpool (May 29th) to honour the dead, they also have a permanent tribute to the fans that died at Anfield and Juve also do at their ground. why does it not get as much coverage?? because it was a disaster that largely didn't effect British people (only 1 fan from N.Ireland died that day, the rest were French, Belgian and Italian)so strangely enough the Italian media tend to cover that more as it was largely Italians that died! we therefore have a remembrance for Hillsborough as it was British people that died, it's justa shame that so many want to forget about remembering them and would rather point fingers so they can take cheap shots at Liverpool FC because they don't like them...fucking pathetic! so Liverpool caused Heysel, should we therefore forget about these 96??? should we fuck!!!! they are 2 entirely different events that happened on different days so should not be classed together therefore leading to forgetting what today is really about. is it really too much for some people to put their other arguments aside for 1 DAY, 24 bloody hours so we can honour and respect those that died at Hillsborough????? ibrox, heysel and bradford have fuck all to do with today!!!! John Alfred Anderson 62 Colin Mark Ashcroft 19 James Gary Aspinall 18 Kester Roger Marcus Ball 16 Gerard Bernard Patrick Baron 67 Simon Bell 17 Barry Sidney Bennett 26 David John Benson 22 David William Birtle 22 Tony Bland 22 Paul David Brady 21 Andrew Mark Brookes 26 Carl Brown 18 David Steven Brown 25 Henry Thomas Burke 47 Peter Andrew Burkett 24 Paul William Carlile 19 Raymond Thomas Chapman 50 Gary Christopher Church 19 Joseph Clark 29 Paul Clark 18 Gary Collins 22 Stephen Paul Copoc 20 Tracey Elizabeth Cox 23 James Philip Delaney 19 Christopher Barry Devonside 18 Chris Edwards 29 Vincent Michael Fitzsimmons 34 Thomas Steven Fox 21 Jon-Paul Gilhooley 10 Barry Glover 27 Ian Thomas Glover 20 Derrick George Godwin 24 Roy Harry Hamilton 34 Philip Hammond 14 Eric Hankin 33 Gary Harrison 27 Stephen Francis Harrison 31 Peter Andrew Harrison 15 David Hawley 39 James Robert Hennessy 29 Paul Anthony Hewitson 26 Carl Darren Hewitt 17 Nicholas Michael Hewitt 16 Sarah Louise Hicks 19 Victoria Jane Hicks 15 Gordon Rodney Horn 20 Arthur Horrocks 41 Thomas Howard 39 Thomas Anthony Howard 14 Eric George Hughes 42 Alan Johnston 29 Christine Anne Jones 27 Gary Philip Jones 18 Richard Jones 25 Nicholas Peter Joynes 27 Anthony Peter Kelly 29 Michael David Kelly 38 Carl David Lewis 18 David William Mather 19 Brian Christopher Matthews 38 Francis Joseph McAllister 27 John McBrien 18 Marian Hazel McCabe 21 Joseph Daniel McCarthy 21 Peter McDonnell 21 Alan McGlone 28 Keith McGrath 17 Paul Brian Murray 14 Lee Nicol 14 Stephen Francis O'Neill 17 Jonathon Owens 18 William Roy Pemberton 23 Carl William Rimmer 21 Dave George Rimmer 38 Graham John Roberts 24 Steven Joseph Robinson 17 Henry Charles Rogers 17 Colin Andrew Hugh William Sefton 23 Inger Shah 38 Paula Ann Smith 26 Adam Edward Spearritt 14 Philip John Steele 15 David Leonard Thomas 23 Patrick John Thompson 35 Peter Reuben Thompson 30 Stuart Paul William Thompson 17 Peter Francis Tootle 21 Christopher James Traynor 26 Martin Kevin Traynor 16 Kevin Tyrrell 15 Colin Wafer 19 Ian David Whelan 19 Martin Kenneth Wild 29 Kevin Daniel Williams 15 Graham John Wright 17 that's who today is about!!!! were they responsible for Heysel???? No!!!! is it their fault that Liverpool don't remember Heysel???? NO! so why the fuck do people have to ruin what should be a day of remembrance with their fucking lack of common sense and compassion by bringing up other disasters with this "Fuck Liverpool, they're inconsistent with what they choose to remember" argument.....if you're not happy with Liverpool then fair enough, no qualms with that but IT'S NOT ABOUT LIVERPOOL FC!!!!! it's about the City of Liverpool and the scores of people that came from there that never went home. trying to muddy the waters by banging on about Heysel is unbelievably disrespectful to the 96 listed above, their friends, their families and the City as a whole. it's a bloody disgrace and embarrassing to even see this thread still going.....you are all grown ups with good brains, can you all not see that other issues can be talked about on any day of the year but is there really any need on this one????? the family of the 1 British victim that died at Heysel probably want remembrance as well but do you think that even they would just ignore this day and try to spoil it by banging on about Heysel today of all days?? Not a chance! the idiocy and lack of common decency shown on this board at times is beyond belief! Great post mate. So easy for people to make cheap jibes on the internet. Hillsborough is a tragic story of how 96 people lost their lives watching the team they loved playing the game we all love. Whenever i hear the story of the Hicks family i struggle to deal with what happened that day. A family of four drove to Hillsborough that day. The mother and father drove home alone. Sometimes you don't need to obsess over right and wrong. Who and why Sometimes you just remember.
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Apr 16, 2014 9:13:02 GMT
I find some of the responses on here beyond belief, as has already been pointed out there by sheer fortune could have been any one of us or our loved ones. The whole tragedy was then compounded by the authorities and the press spouting lies in an attempt to cover up what actually happened. I have never failed to be moved and impressed by ordinary folk like Anne Williams or indeed public figures like Liverpool players,Bill Kenwright, Andy Burnham and particularly Martinez who made an incredibly moving speech at the memorial service. Supporters from all over the world united the other day to pay respect, while the usual suspects on here crawl lower than a snake's belly to score a few cheap and nasty points. It's abundantly clear that the tragedy was not the fault of supporters and also in the aftermath it's now clear that the authorities attempted to cover up their own ineptitude. South Yorkshire police in particular have to answer serious questions not just about this but also their behaviour towards striking miners four years earlier. Just try putting yourself in the place of Anne Williams or Trevor Hicks or any other of those families who lost their loved ones that day and have fought tirelessly at great personal cost to get to the truth. They are almost there. JUSTICE FOR THE 96
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Apr 16, 2014 9:28:26 GMT
It's all stereotypical agenda driven anti Liverpool/scouse in general bollocks
No more no less
It's fucking pathetic
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 16, 2014 10:08:12 GMT
Post by Gods on Apr 16, 2014 10:08:12 GMT
That is what is coming next though isn't it Lakeside? The "accidental death" verdicts have been quashed, that means someone "dunnit". My understanding of this latest Hillsborough enquiry is that behind all the other rhetoric about "finding the truth" it is about finding someone or more like some organisation to hang out to dry (aka the Police). That in turn will open the door for prosecutions and the lawyers to go after proper (big ££) compensation. It isn't just the police in the firing line. There's the small matter of authorities and Sheff Wed allowing an unsafe stadium, without a safety certificate, to be used and filled to the rafters when there should have been a restriction on tickets sales because of the safety short comings. There is also a small matter of the government and FA using disgusting animal cages as a quick fix for hooliganism to try and get English clubs re-instated into Europe following the ban after Heysel. Yes, the police did fuck up on the day but it only served to highlight the way fans were treated by the football industry during 70s and 80s. The police and an unfortunate delay on the motorway were the main catalyst for a tragedy that was waiting to happen IMO. I agree with all of that, I only directly called out the Police so keep it simple and because my guess is they will "cop" the majority of the blame. I know some folks don't like any link between Heysel and Hillsborough but you would have to be in some kind of serious denial not to imagine that the still open wound of the deaths of Belgians and Italians caused by rampaging fans at Heysel did not influence the attitudes of the authorities on the day to wrongly assess the events of Hillsborough with tragic consequences.
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 16, 2014 10:11:45 GMT
via mobile
Post by salopstick on Apr 16, 2014 10:11:45 GMT
I find some of the responses on here beyond belief, as has already been pointed out there by sheer fortune could have been any one of us or our loved ones. The whole tragedy was then compounded by the authorities and the press spouting lies in an attempt to cover up what actually happened. I have never failed to be moved and impressed by ordinary folk like Anne Williams or indeed public figures like Liverpool players,Bill Kenwright, Andy Burnham and particularly Martinez who made an incredibly moving speech at the memorial service. Supporters from all over the world united the other day to pay respect, while the usual suspects on here crawl lower than a snake's belly to score a few cheap and nasty points. It's abundantly clear that the tragedy was not the fault of supporters and also in the aftermath it's now clear that the authorities attempted to cover up their own ineptitude. South Yorkshire police in particular have to answer serious questions not just about this but also their behaviour towards striking miners four years earlier. Just try putting yourself in the place of Anne Williams or Trevor Hicks or any other of those families who lost their loved ones that day and have fought tirelessly at great personal cost to get to the truth. They are almost there. JUSTICE FOR THE 96 All good stuff (apart from burnham) but absolutely nothing to do with hysel
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 16, 2014 10:17:43 GMT
Post by mcf on Apr 16, 2014 10:17:43 GMT
It isn't just the police in the firing line. There's the small matter of authorities and Sheff Wed allowing an unsafe stadium, without a safety certificate, to be used and filled to the rafters when there should have been a restriction on tickets sales because of the safety short comings. There is also a small matter of the government and FA using disgusting animal cages as a quick fix for hooliganism to try and get English clubs re-instated into Europe following the ban after Heysel. Yes, the police did fuck up on the day but it only served to highlight the way fans were treated by the football industry during 70s and 80s. The police and an unfortunate delay on the motorway were the main catalyst for a tragedy that was waiting to happen IMO. I agree with all of that, I only directly called out the Police so keep it simple and because my guess is they will "cop" the majority of the blame. I know some folks don't like any link between Heysel and Hillsborough but you would have to be in some kind of serious denial not to imagine that the still open wound of the deaths of Belgians and Italians caused by rampaging fans at Heysel did not influence the attitudes of the authorities on the day to wrongly assess the events of Hillsborough with tragic consequences. don't come here with anti scouse bollocks it may appear that they are very sensible, relevant and considered comments but the greater and the good can spot it a mile off....
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 16, 2014 10:32:06 GMT
Post by Gods on Apr 16, 2014 10:32:06 GMT
I agree with all of that, I only directly called out the Police so keep it simple and because my guess is they will "cop" the majority of the blame. I know some folks don't like any link between Heysel and Hillsborough but you would have to be in some kind of serious denial not to imagine that the still open wound of the deaths of Belgians and Italians caused by rampaging fans at Heysel did not influence the attitudes of the authorities on the day to wrongly assess the events of Hillsborough with tragic consequences. don't come here with anti scouse bollocks it may appear that they are very sensible, relevant and considered comments but the greater and the good can spot it a mile off.... I know, I took 10 deep breaths first, head up chin back...
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 16, 2014 10:41:39 GMT
Post by partickpotter on Apr 16, 2014 10:41:39 GMT
Ian Hambridge - 15 Not Hillsborough, not Heysel or Bradford. But died alone at a football game all the same with echoes of all three tragedies. Reminds me of the Ted Hughes poem A Woman Unconscious which ends... Respect to all those who were killed watching the game they loved.
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 16, 2014 11:42:36 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 11:42:36 GMT
What about actually did befall us and Stenhousemuir.
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 16, 2014 13:00:20 GMT
Post by JoeinOz on Apr 16, 2014 13:00:20 GMT
Strange thing about Heysel is it's hardly remembered in Turin. Many Juve fans have never forgiven Platini for the way he celebrated the goal in the game. It was seriously disrespectful.
It was crazy the game was played at all. The only reasoning was their could be loads more trouble had it not taken place. Bruce Groberlaar has said it was ridiculous to play the game but as a footballer you don't actually have an opnion, you just do whatever you are told.
There are some questions whioch have never been answered regarding that game. Juventus and liverpool had a combined average attendance of about 135,000 that season. UEFA put the game in a stadium that held nothing near that. 40,000?
Journalists from England and Italy made a trip before the game to visit the stadium and pleaded with UEFA to switch the match. The ground was literally falling apart. UEFA ignored the request. When they went for a walk around the pitch before kick off Alan Hansen and Alan Kennedy were amazed to find huge lumps of concrete being thrown at them by some of the Italians. They realised that it was actually parts of the terracing that were crumbling.
Bizarrely, there was a huge section where Juventus and Liverpool supporters were on the same end seperated by flimsy chicken wire. There was also a section reserved for neutrals where, predictably, the tickets were touted to Liverpool and Juventus fans.
There will have been some animosity on behalf of some of the Liverpool contingent regarding the Liverpool fan murdered in Rome the previous year. When Juventus supporters started throwing missiles at the Liverpool section some the Liverpool section ran at them. This led to panic and the Italians raced to the opposite end of the terrace where the wall collapsed. It was the collapse of the wall which lead to the majority of deaths. The most disturbing memory of the entire evening was the man who looked like Pavarotti holding his hand out for help as the life drained from him.
Anyone who remembers the footage of the wall collapsing will recall that it just crumbled like, well, like a wall in a stadium unfit to host a huge football match.
A while before any violence occured the Juventus section unveiled a banner saying 'Red Animals". During the carnage a Juventus follower was seen firing a gun. There was plenty of people there, on both sides prepared to do some ugly things.
Combine the inadequate amount of tickets available, the antagonism between both sets of supporters, the stadium crumbling, the sheer disorgnisation it was all pointing one way.
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 16, 2014 13:00:47 GMT
via mobile
Post by bathstoke on Apr 16, 2014 13:00:47 GMT
Ian Hambridge - 15 Not Hillsborough, not Heysel or Bradford. But died alone at a football game all the same with echoes of all three tragedies. Reminds me of the Ted Hughes poem A Woman Unconscious which ends... Respect to all those who were killed watching the game they loved. Well done Partick, a bit of perspective in the shape of Ted Hughes. They were dark chaotic times the 80's & I'm not sure that many came out of it blameless...
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 16, 2014 14:23:57 GMT
Post by britsabroad on Apr 16, 2014 14:23:57 GMT
Spactirical I'll grant you. H It would be really intriguing what some these fags on Police horse, Heysel, scouse hating diverters from the issue at hand would have done in the Hillsborough families situation though isn't it. Presumably fuck all, if you take their constant protestations to a natural conclusion. If you think that you're really quite stupid. The two things have fuck all to do with each other, other than being stadium tragedies. What people are questioning is why Hillsborough gets so much attention, but another stadium tragedy involving the same team/fans (quite literally in some cases) is swept under the carpet. That doesn't diminish the importance of the Hillsborough campaign in any way, and noone is saying it should.
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 16, 2014 14:51:42 GMT
Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 16, 2014 14:51:42 GMT
It would be really intriguing what some these fags on Police horse, Heysel, scouse hating diverters from the issue at hand would have done in the Hillsborough families situation though isn't it. Presumably fuck all, if you take their constant protestations to a natural conclusion. If you think that you're really quite stupid. The two things have fuck all to do with each other, other than being stadium tragedies. What people are questioning is why Hillsborough gets so much attention, but another stadium tragedy involving the same team/fans (quite literally in some cases) is swept under the carpet. That doesn't diminish the importance of the Hillsborough campaign in any way, and noone is saying it should. It is evidently clear the reason why people choose to bring up Heysel and other matters when talking about Hillsborough, particularly on a day like yesterday. There's no need for you to try and clarify it.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 14:59:37 GMT
It would be really intriguing what some these fags on Police horse, Heysel, scouse hating diverters from the issue at hand would have done in the Hillsborough families situation though isn't it. Presumably fuck all, if you take their constant protestations to a natural conclusion. If you think that you're really quite stupid. The two things have fuck all to do with each other, other than being stadium tragedies. What people are questioning is why Hillsborough gets so much attention, but another stadium tragedy involving the same team/fans (quite literally in some cases) is swept under the carpet. That doesn't diminish the importance of the Hillsborough campaign in any way, and noone is saying it should. Liverpool have a day of remembrance on 29th May every year for the Heysel tragedy...they have a permanent tribute at Anfield as well for it. it would be useful to remember that Liverpool FC don't insist upon or even ask for all kick offs to be delayed etc. at the anniversary of hillsborough, that is the FA that decide to do that and the Prem are happy to go along with it.pretty sure if the FA wanted to mark the anniversary of Heysel that Liverpool wouldn't object to that either but they can't have a minute's silence as the day falls outside of the football season. Liverpool also have had a Juventus flag in the kop at every home game since the disaster. so, in short...Liverpool don't ignore the Heysel disaster, it's simply that the British media do so no-one is even aware of most of the above. it also isn't Liverpool's fault that the British media focus so much on Hillsborough; you have to remember that because of what has gone on and the fact that there hasn't been any justice for what happened it is therefore still a media story whereas Heysel has been taken care of as far as the media is concerned so isn't a story anymore. you also have to remember that the British media aren't as interested in the Heysel disaster simply because only one Brit actually died there and he wasn't a Liverpool fan....you may as well ask why Nottingham Forest don't have a Hillsborough tribute at their ground for the Liverpool fans that died at Hillsborough so why does Hillsborough get so much attention? simple, it's an ongoing news story whereas Heysel isn't. is that Liverpool's fault or down to the British Media? no, let's just be lazy and blame it all on Liverpool FC because....well, we just don't like them do we so it's easy!
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 16, 2014 17:14:12 GMT
via mobile
Post by werrington on Apr 16, 2014 17:14:12 GMT
If you think that you're really quite stupid. The two things have fuck all to do with each other, other than being stadium tragedies. What people are questioning is why Hillsborough gets so much attention, but another stadium tragedy involving the same team/fans (quite literally in some cases) is swept under the carpet. That doesn't diminish the importance of the Hillsborough campaign in any way, and noone is saying it should. Liverpool have a day of remembrance on 29th May every year for the Heysel tragedy...they have a permanent tribute at Anfield as well for it. it would be useful to remember that Liverpool FC don't insist upon or even ask for all kick offs to be delayed etc. at the anniversary of hillsborough, that is the FA that decide to do that and the Prem are happy to go along with it.pretty sure if the FA wanted to mark the anniversary of Heysel that Liverpool wouldn't object to that either but they can't have a minute's silence as the day falls outside of the football season. Liverpool also have had a Juventus flag in the kop at every home game since the disaster. so, in short...Liverpool don't ignore the Heysel disaster, it's simply that the British media do so no-one is even aware of most of the above. it also isn't Liverpool's fault that the British media focus so much on Hillsborough; you have to remember that because of what has gone on and the fact that there hasn't been any justice for what happened it is therefore still a media story whereas Heysel has been taken care of as far as the media is concerned so isn't a story anymore. you also have to remember that the British media aren't as interested in the Heysel disaster simply because only one Brit actually died there and he wasn't a Liverpool fan....you may as well ask why Nottingham Forest don't have a Hillsborough tribute at their ground for the Liverpool fans that died at Hillsborough so why does Hillsborough get so much attention? simple, it's an ongoing news story whereas Heysel isn't. is that Liverpool's fault or down to the British Media? no, let's just be lazy and blame it all on Liverpool FC because....well, we just don't like them do we so it's easy! Superb mick just superb ( applause )
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Apr 16, 2014 18:11:49 GMT
Liverpool have a day of remembrance on 29th May every year for the Heysel tragedy...they have a permanent tribute at Anfield as well for it. it would be useful to remember that Liverpool FC don't insist upon or even ask for all kick offs to be delayed etc. at the anniversary of hillsborough, that is the FA that decide to do that and the Prem are happy to go along with it.pretty sure if the FA wanted to mark the anniversary of Heysel that Liverpool wouldn't object to that either but they can't have a minute's silence as the day falls outside of the football season. Liverpool also have had a Juventus flag in the kop at every home game since the disaster. so, in short...Liverpool don't ignore the Heysel disaster, it's simply that the British media do so no-one is even aware of most of the above. it also isn't Liverpool's fault that the British media focus so much on Hillsborough; you have to remember that because of what has gone on and the fact that there hasn't been any justice for what happened it is therefore still a media story whereas Heysel has been taken care of as far as the media is concerned so isn't a story anymore. you also have to remember that the British media aren't as interested in the Heysel disaster simply because only one Brit actually died there and he wasn't a Liverpool fan....you may as well ask why Nottingham Forest don't have a Hillsborough tribute at their ground for the Liverpool fans that died at Hillsborough so why does Hillsborough get so much attention? simple, it's an ongoing news story whereas Heysel isn't. is that Liverpool's fault or down to the British Media? no, let's just be lazy and blame it all on Liverpool FC because....well, we just don't like them do we so it's easy! Superb mick just superb ( applause ) Sorry mick not good enough They can't airbrush history but a small plaque and a page on the official site is so low key compared to hillsborough. It took them 25 years to sort out a memorial Some Liverpool fans had wanted the club to do somthing a lot earlier "Hillsborough wasn't directly about hooliganism, it was fundamentally about poor policing, poor stadium design and dire crowd control management, but it was hooliganism that was responsible for the presence of those factors. That's the link between the two disasters and it's a grisly and unsavoury truth. It's time we the fans and the club publicly accepted our part in this." www.theguardian.com/football/2002/apr/28/sport.comment7Hysel page lfc site www.liverpoolfc.com/history/heysel
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 17, 2014 0:32:27 GMT
Post by britsabroad on Apr 17, 2014 0:32:27 GMT
If you think that you're really quite stupid. The two things have fuck all to do with each other, other than being stadium tragedies. What people are questioning is why Hillsborough gets so much attention, but another stadium tragedy involving the same team/fans (quite literally in some cases) is swept under the carpet. That doesn't diminish the importance of the Hillsborough campaign in any way, and noone is saying it should. It is evidently clear the reason why people choose to bring up Heysel and other matters when talking about Hillsborough, particularly on a day like yesterday. There's no need for you to try and clarify it. It is clear. But you don't seem to get it. Neither do half the people in this thread. You seem to think it's to diminish the importance of Hillsborough. Its not, its to bring up all the other tragedies to a similar level of recognition.
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 17, 2014 2:07:45 GMT
Post by PotterLog on Apr 17, 2014 2:07:45 GMT
It is evidently clear the reason why people choose to bring up Heysel and other matters when talking about Hillsborough, particularly on a day like yesterday. There's no need for you to try and clarify it. It is clear. But you don't seem to get it. Neither do half the people in this thread. You seem to think it's to diminish the importance of Hillsborough. Its not, its to bring up all the other tragedies to a similar level of recognition. Right, of course. Presumably the members of the AOFTC (Awareness of Other Football Tragedies Campaign) are involved in numerous activities around the year to fulfill these objectives of "raising recognition"? I presume their activity isn't limited to flippantly mentioning them on messageboards at the same time every year - which happens to coincide with the Hillsborough disaster? It's as transparent as water mate and if you genuinely believe what you've posted there it means you've simply failed to see through it.
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 17, 2014 9:47:16 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 9:47:16 GMT
Superb mick just superb ( applause ) Sorry mick not good enough They can't airbrush history but a small plaque and a page on the official site is so low key compared to hillsborough. It took them 25 years to sort out a memorial Some Liverpool fans had wanted the club to do somthing a lot earlier "Hillsborough wasn't directly about hooliganism, it was fundamentally about poor policing, poor stadium design and dire crowd control management, but it was hooliganism that was responsible for the presence of those factors. That's the link between the two disasters and it's a grisly and unsavoury truth. It's time we the fans and the club publicly accepted our part in this." www.theguardian.com/football/2002/apr/28/sport.comment7Hysel page lfc site www.liverpoolfc.com/history/heyselbut the point is salop is that the Hillsborough memorial and the subsequent services etc. that Liverpool FC have is to remember the 96 LIVERPOOL fans that died that day....the reason why Heysel is "so low key" is because there WEREN'T any Liverpool fans that died at Heysel. yes, their fans were responsible for it but those that were responsible have been tried and convicted. should Liverpool FC create a bigger memorial to remember fans of another club that died because they were involved in the match? in which case i presume you're equally as pissed off that Notts Forest don't have a permanent megastructure to remember the 96 Liverpool fans that died at Hillsborough yeah? you going to have a pop at Lincoln city for not remembering the Bradford fire enough? after all, they were involved in that match as well but i don't see you or anyone else going mad at them for their lack of statues, memorial services etc. funny how you all have a go saying how Bradford, Ibrox etc. aren't remembered as much but none of you are as eager to have a go at any of the teams involved in THOSE games are you? no, apparently Liverpool are somehow to blame for that as well and it's their fault they're not as well recognised...utter garbage! so what you're saying is that Liverpool should remember Hillsborough because their fans died...Notts Forest don't have to because their fans didn't die.....but Liverpool should remember Heysel just as much as Hillsborough even though their fans didn't die but because they were involved in the game....not very consistent really that is it? anything else you want Liverpool to sort out as it appears that other clubs don't have to do anything to mark disasters THEY were involved in but Liverpool do? strange how Liverpool apparently have the responsibility to highlight the fans of other clubs that died but apparently no-one else does eh? no agendas though eh lads...honest! of course if it was ANY other club other than Liverpool then you'd be just as vocal about it...yeah of course you would it's nothing but a petty pop at the club because they're not well liked...now, fair enough i enjoy slagging off Liverpool and seeing them fail as much as the next man but to use Hillsborough and Heysel as nothing but an opportunity and ammunition to slag them off is fucking sick and hugely insulting to what it actually SHOULD be about!
|
|
|
Post by march4 on Apr 17, 2014 10:01:30 GMT
There were so many elements about football in the 1980's that contributed to the Hillsborough disaster that those who didn't attend football matches in those days will find it difficult to fully understand how the tragedy came about.
May God rest the souls of those who died and ease the pain of their families and friends.
|
|
|
Heysel
Apr 17, 2014 10:07:13 GMT
Post by salopstick on Apr 17, 2014 10:07:13 GMT
Mick you miss my point.
Liverpool have been the club that cried wolf There fans have travelled to Europe (and other games) en masse causing trouble many with out tickets for years. They will try and blag their way into games. This is well documented and includes the Athens CL final you would think they know better.
If you read that guardian article a Liverpool fan says that hooliganism factors indirectly led to some of the implementations at hillsborough.
The article on their official site is a small acknowledgment IMO as little as they can get away with. J96 is great but over time if LFC had done a lot more to recognise heysel they might have had a lot more sympathy and earlier success. It also fuels the hillsborough debate (one of which I'm not getting into)
It is my opinion that sometimes you must make a big song and dance about your mistakes before you go on about your woes.
I watched the tribute service on Tuesday and by in large was moving and very thoughtful, I was a bit returned that some speakers used it as a platform to score points
|
|