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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 18, 2013 0:47:45 GMT
Bayern unfortunately there is no alternative to captain. You could see to Nasser, Vaughn, Strauss, cook replacing each other but there is no one in the current crop I can see replacing cook. So we have to persevere. I think the captaincy has affected cooks batting, he cannot win a toss and is to conservative for me. The summer series although 3-0 looks closer than what it should have been I wouldn't replace him, I just think he needs some guidance on how to be a bit more attacking and ruthless.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 18, 2013 0:54:44 GMT
Talking about the whole package of Captain then it's hard to see an alternative to Cook but actual on the field dynamism, imagination and response to events, then I can't imagine anyone would do a notably worse job.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 18, 2013 0:56:01 GMT
He won't get that off many in the current set up.
It needs changing from the top.
I agree what athers said today how he needs to build his own team.
Not discard everyone but look to the future.
The England cricket team is full time. I think England's schedule this year had been not far off 100 days when you include all formats. That's a lot of cricket.
Flower has done a good job. I would get rid not because we have list this series but it's not a job for long term. A change is as good as a rest.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 18, 2013 1:00:28 GMT
No he wouldn't, I'd get someone like Michael Vaughan to have a word though. Not a You need to this, this and this word but just a general chat about how to be a bit more positive.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 2:04:27 GMT
Pietersen bring new players through ! Don't make me laugh ....?He looks down on them ...ask James Taylor ( although he did literally look down on him ) ....I wasn't aware that he was the only victim of a witch hunt ? Cook has been the victim of one for weeks ....even when we were winning the last series .......easy to jump on the blame game because we have been beaten ....best to let the dust settle first before swinging any axes in haste I don't mean bring through in terms of coaching and mentoring, I mean in terms of keeping us vaguely competitive whilst we blood the desperately needed new breed. KP still has the third highest average of England batsmen this series and simply is not the problem. He has become the easy target. A failure of this magnitude starts at managerial level and permeates down from there. Please don't misunderstand me ...Pietersen is an outstanding talent ....his record is second to none ....but he should be setting a better example than he does ...I question his commitment to England's cause ...I know he has played a hundred tests ....but I just see something more than those three lions he has tattooed on his shoulder as his ultimate goal ....I would love nothing more than to be proved wrong mate
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 2:09:08 GMT
Bayern unfortunately there is no alternative to captain. You could see to Nasser, Vaughn, Strauss, cook replacing each other but there is no one in the current crop I can see replacing cook. So we have to persevere. I think the captaincy has affected cooks batting, he cannot win a toss and is to conservative for me. The summer series although 3-0 looks closer than what it should have been I wouldn't replace him, I just think he needs some guidance on how to be a bit more attacking and ruthless. You see that's what you don't understand ....you can't instill that into a cricketer ....it's part of your make up. The way you look at the game ....nobody will change Cooks outlook it's the way he has been brought up in the game ....he will never change
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 2:13:24 GMT
He won't get that off many in the current set up. It needs changing from the top. I agree what athers said today how he needs to build his own team. Not discard everyone but look to the future. The England cricket team is full time. I think England's schedule this year had been not far off 100 days when you include all formats. That's a lot of cricket. Flower has done a good job. I would get rid not because we have list this series but it's not a job for long term. A change is as good as a rest. And who would he bring in that was any better than this squad mate ? He has been captain for over a year now ...do you see any better players that he could have brought into the squad .....Athers talks through Bothams Backside
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 18, 2013 2:16:15 GMT
I wouldn't replace him, I just think he needs some guidance on how to be a bit more attacking and ruthless. You see that's what you don't understand ....you can't instill that into a cricketer ....it's part of your make up. The way you look at the game ....nobody will change Cooks outlook it's the way he has been brought up in the game ....he will never change Nah, I know that but I still think it's worth a go (nothing ventured, nothing gained). Because quite frankly the other option ie sacking him as captain, I don't like. I am a fan of blind faith occasionally and Cook's captaincy is where I can run with it. Deep down, I don't think he's good enough (as captain) but I like the bloke, I like the way he bats and think he deserves more time. And quite frankly, there's no bugger else.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 2:21:25 GMT
No he wouldn't, I'd get someone like Michael Vaughan to have a word though. Not a You need to this, this and this word but just a general chat about how to be a bit more positive. I suggest you listen to Michael Vaughn a little more carefully ..He is another Ex England Captain who talks out of his backside ....what nonsense he talks ! ....if you understand the game at all it is best to watch and form your own opinions ...ex England Captains tend to perform for their paymasters ....
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 18, 2013 2:28:29 GMT
No he wouldn't, I'd get someone like Michael Vaughan to have a word though. Not a You need to this, this and this word but just a general chat about how to be a bit more positive. I suggest you listen to Michael Vaughn a little more carefully ..He is another Ex England Captain who talks out of his backside ....what nonsense he talks ! ....if you understand the game at all it is best to watch and form your own opinions ...ex England Captains tend to perform for their paymasters .... What the bastarding hell are You going on about? I've been saying this lot (especially the batsmen) are pretty poor for the past 18 months against all contrary opinion and advice as You well know! I have no problem with forming my own opinions, it's not my fault they differ with Yours!
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Post by salopstick on Dec 18, 2013 2:40:01 GMT
He won't get that off many in the current set up. It needs changing from the top. I agree what athers said today how he needs to build his own team. Not discard everyone but look to the future. The England cricket team is full time. I think England's schedule this year had been not far off 100 days when you include all formats. That's a lot of cricket. Flower has done a good job. I would get rid not because we have list this series but it's not a job for long term. A change is as good as a rest. And who would he bring in that was any better than this squad mate ? He has been captain for over a year now ...do you see any better players that he could have brought into the squad .....Athers talks through Bothams Backside . Plenty of the old guard that need a kick up the arse At the moment to many have a guaranteed place, you need fresh faces to motivate the old ones
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 2:43:11 GMT
And who would he bring in that was any better than this squad mate ? He has been captain for over a year now ...do you see any better players that he could have brought into the squad .....Athers talks through Bothams Backside . Plenty of the old guard that need a kick up the arse At the moment to many have a guaranteed place, you need fresh faces to motivate the old ones Such as mate ...? Please tell me who are the better option ...?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 2:47:20 GMT
I suggest you listen to Michael Vaughn a little more carefully ..He is another Ex England Captain who talks out of his backside ....what nonsense he talks ! ....if you understand the game at all it is best to watch and form your own opinions ...ex England Captains tend to perform for their paymasters .... What the bastarding hell are You going on about? I've been saying this lot (especially the batsmen) are pretty poor for the past 18 months against all contrary opinion and advice as You well know! I have no problem with forming my own opinions, it's not my fault they differ with Yours! Fine .....you are an expert in almost everything. That you post about ...why should cricket be any different ...feel free to carry on it doesn't affect me .......
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 18, 2013 9:04:26 GMT
Your opinion and your are quite entitled to it ....?by the way that is Boycott's standard assessment of batsmen who are out of form " his eyes have gone " .... I listen to TMS a lot and I've never heard him say it before. Strauss did one of those sky pieces facing a bowling machine in the summer and pretty much said his eyes were gone and he was struggling to pick up the ball. I think he is actually a team guy and was also thinking give the new opener India and NZ series to bed in before the Ashes plus the Sky offer was probably on the table. No doubting KP is a bellend though. Botham and Vaughan as pundits are very much whichever way the wind blows both tipping 5-0 and now laying into England, Boycott although a bit of a tit at least says what he thinks even when it's contrary to everyone else's views.
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 18, 2013 9:15:55 GMT
followyoudown: Looking forward to 2015 too. Melbourne and Sydney should be fascinating from the England selection conundrum. From the Aussie perspective it will be interesting to see how Clark handles Bailey, Watson especially and less so Warner. If the instruction is for Watson and Bailey to bat as they did in Perth right from the start then the Boxing Day Test will be a spectacle to savour. However, if they go into their respective shells then it could go either way. Davey Warner is another kettle of fish. He's only just getting to grips with Test cricket and irrespective of how the team might want him to play he will continue along the development path he's chosen. Loving that the England supporters have cast him as the villain just as Broad has the same role with Aus supporters. I'll bet that neither of them gives a jot and are enjoying the notoriety. By the way, what was the nonsense of the England players not applauding an Australian century maker….. poor cricket that old chums. I have to agree that the more recent Aus opening pairs have had their fair share of problems. I rate Khawaja highly as first drop (but who am I) and think that his day will come. Since his 'defection' to Queensland he seems to have put another layer of polish on his game. A stylish batsman who reminds me of Greg Chappell or a switched on Mark Waugh - very comfortable to watch. Just hope he can realise his potential this season. Mr Hughes is different again. He has known technical faults that the England bowlers spotted and then played him off a break. Who knows what will happen to his career in the future. The young Turks, the bowlers, are in the melting pot. They all have speed to burn but have a history of breaking down. I think you are thinking of Darrin Pattinson (the POM, raised in Melbourne and has one test cap for England). James, his brother, was born in Melbourne. We also have Mitch Starc in the locker waiting their turn to take the place of Johnson or Siddle or Harris. Australia are in transition and of course there will be a few more changes to the batting order before we have a settled team. Hopefully this will take place before 2015. Stokes was magnificent. His ton was full of courage and determination. I suppose that England will be dredging the Shaky Isles prospecting for more uncut gems. Good luck with that. On to Melbourne. Good luck with that too. I'm applying the same nationality criteria that leads aussie commentators to call Monty indian even though he was born and bought up in Luton to Pattinson whose parents are British after all if he was an aussie he would only have a mum (winky smiley face). We'll see on Warner who is right but my view is he doesn't have the battling game to get through bad runs and he'll be out of the test team for good within 2-3 years, I think he also has other issues and they are plenty of people who will put the boot into him when he falls as he has acted like such a graceless knob on his way up. SA next up for the Aussies Steyn, Amla and Smith will have a field day luckily the Windies and India for England.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 18, 2013 9:52:42 GMT
. Plenty of the old guard that need a kick up the arse At the moment to many have a guaranteed place, you need fresh faces to motivate the old ones Such as mate ...? Please tell me who are the better option ...? I don't know but there must be players out there who can give some of these a push Without competition for places you lose motivation. You say to Finn. Win or lose we are going to give you the experience of lots of test on bounce. That gives the bowlers a kick up the arse We seem to lack that edge which some competition could give back. That's basic sport
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 18, 2013 11:48:31 GMT
. Plenty of the old guard that need a kick up the arse At the moment to many have a guaranteed place, you need fresh faces to motivate the old ones Such as mate ...? Please tell me who are the better option ...? There are plenty of options. Here is one potential side that loses 6 of the Perth starting 11 but retains some of the old guard. Bit harsh on Carberry I know - but I'm looking to the future. I'm keeping Cook but I'd replace him as captain with Ian Bell. Alistair Cook Moeen Ali Gary Ballance Joe Root Ian Bell Jos Butler Ben Stokes Chris Woakes Chris Broad Steve Finn Monty Panesar
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 18, 2013 11:53:55 GMT
You see that's what you don't understand ....you can't instill that into a cricketer ....it's part of your make up. The way you look at the game ....nobody will change Cooks outlook it's the way he has been brought up in the game ....he will never change Nah, I know that but I still think it's worth a go (nothing ventured, nothing gained). Because quite frankly the other option ie sacking him as captain, I don't like. I am a fan of blind faith occasionally and Cook's captaincy is where I can run with it. Deep down, I don't think he's good enough (as captain) but I like the bloke, I like the way he bats and think he deserves more time. And quite frankly, there's no bugger else. There is one clear candidate to replace Cook as captain - Bell. #5 is a good spot for a batting captain.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2013 12:38:07 GMT
Such as mate ...? Please tell me who are the better option ...? There are plenty of options. Here is one potential side that loses 6 of the Perth starting 11 but retains some of the old guard. Bit harsh on Carberry I know - but I'm looking to the future. I'm keeping Cook but I'd replace him as captain with Ian Bell. Alistair Cook Moeen Ali Gary Ballance Joe Root Ian Bell Jos Butler Ben Stokes Chris Woakes Chris Broad Steve Finn Monty Panesar I wouldn't change too much for the next two tests as I'd let some of the old guard fight to see if they're worth a place in the summer against India. Something like below would be a decent experimental team for the Sri Lanka mini series though Alistair Cook (c) Joe Root Ian Bell James Vince Garry Ballance Ben Stokes Jos Buttler (wk) Stuart Broad Azeem Rafiq Graham Onions Steven Finn
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 18, 2013 12:44:09 GMT
There are plenty of options. Here is one potential side that loses 6 of the Perth starting 11 but retains some of the old guard. Bit harsh on Carberry I know - but I'm looking to the future. I'm keeping Cook but I'd replace him as captain with Ian Bell. Alistair Cook Moeen Ali Gary Ballance Joe Root Ian Bell Jos Butler Ben Stokes Chris Woakes Chris Broad Steve Finn Monty Panesar I wouldn't change too much for the next two tests as I'd let some of the old guard fight to see if they're worth a place in the summer against India. Something like below would be a decent experimental team for the Sri Lanka mini series though Alistair Cook (c) Joe Root Ian Bell James Vince Garry Ballance Ben Stokes Jos Buttler (wk) Stuart Broad Azeem Rafiq Graham Onions Steven Finn Said the same previously - let the players who got us into this mess try and restore some pride in the last two tests then use the ODIs as the start of the rebuilding process. The critical point is, as you have shown, there are plenty of options; some with test experience, some with none. We don't HAVE to pick Pietersen, Prior, Swann or Anderson.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 18, 2013 12:52:34 GMT
England managers get slated for continually picking big club or out of form big players
I don't see why England cricket should be any different
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 18, 2013 14:25:35 GMT
What the bastarding hell are You going on about? I've been saying this lot (especially the batsmen) are pretty poor for the past 18 months against all contrary opinion and advice as You well know! I have no problem with forming my own opinions, it's not my fault they differ with Yours! Fine .....you are an expert in almost everything. That you post about ...why should cricket be any different ...feel free to carry on it doesn't affect me ....... It clearly does! I listen to TMS a lot and I've never heard him say it before. Strauss did one of those sky pieces facing a bowling machine in the summer and pretty much said his eyes were gone and he was struggling to pick up the ball. I think he is actually a team guy and was also thinking give the new opener India and NZ series to bed in before the Ashes plus the Sky offer was probably on the table. No doubting KP is a bellend though. Botham and Vaughan as pundits are very much whichever way the wind blows both tipping 5-0 and now laying into England, Boycott although a bit of a tit at least says what he thinks even when it's contrary to everyone else's views. Cheers. Yeah he is and I think it makes sense that he stepped aside for the reasons You say. The issue has been we just haven't found anyone really to replace him. And the selectors cocked it up with Compton. They did a special thing, they have him too much time and didn't drop soon enough. A pretty special fuck up. KP is definitely a bellend, he's just a very good one. I'd still play him but he needs to sort his head sharpish. Nah, I know that but I still think it's worth a go (nothing ventured, nothing gained). Because quite frankly the other option ie sacking him as captain, I don't like. I am a fan of blind faith occasionally and Cook's captaincy is where I can run with it. Deep down, I don't think he's good enough (as captain) but I like the bloke, I like the way he bats and think he deserves more time. And quite frankly, there's no bugger else. There is one clear candidate to replace Cook as captain - Bell. #5 is a good spot for a batting captain. I'd have Bell at 3 but he is about the only other candidate.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Dec 18, 2013 15:15:10 GMT
Bell at 3,Ballance at 4,Root at 5. Panesar for Swann,Finn for Broad. Sorted.
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Post by kingdong on Dec 21, 2013 23:56:49 GMT
The news over here in Aussie has just sstated that Graeme Swann is retiring with immediate effect so he won't be playing Boxing day. Weird.
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Post by scfcwebby on Dec 22, 2013 0:03:56 GMT
The news over here in Aussie has just sstated that Graeme Swann is retiring with immediate effect so he won't be playing Boxing day. Weird. Just posted this on new thread, Is on sky sports news now!
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Post by salopstick on Dec 22, 2013 0:16:59 GMT
Draft the best young spinner in now and give him two tests for experience, the results do not matter
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Dec 22, 2013 1:02:08 GMT
We could be in for a couple of difficult years.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2013 10:00:21 GMT
Draft the best young spinner in now and give him two tests for experience, the results do not matter They tried that with Kerrigan, it wasn't pretty
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Post by salopstick on Dec 22, 2013 10:10:50 GMT
Draft the best young spinner in now and give him two tests for experience, the results do not matter They tried that with Kerrigan, it wasn't pretty No choice now
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Post by salopstick on Dec 22, 2013 10:11:58 GMT
It was dire and depressing watching England when we were shit
I hope to fuck we are not going back there
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