|
Post by dbstoke on Apr 25, 2013 9:20:32 GMT
|
|
|
Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Apr 25, 2013 9:36:32 GMT
Paul, it is well documented that they have looked at a number of left backs.
Like I keep on saying, elite sport management is complex, there are other factors to consider and it takes time and patience to change things.
This is a tough League and we started well. We were in good shape and playing OK up until Christmas. The injuries to Etherington and Wilson haven't helped, Adam and Kightly haven't delivered as we hoped and Pennant's gone completely awol. All this has impacted on the teams performance.
It isn't really 18 months. From after Christmas until the end of last season we were still involved in the Europa League, and finished comfortably in mid table. The beginning of this season was OK. You can't simply ignore a 10 game unbeaten run and 8th in the League because it doesn't suit your argument. So it's really down to the run since the New Year.
You see it differently to me.
Eventually TP will leave and I agree with Doz, it will be a sad day for Stoke City Football Club.
It's just a little sad that a bloke who has given us so much can be almost thrown away in our quest for change and prettier, more media friendly football.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 25, 2013 9:50:23 GMT
Paul, it is well documented that they have looked at a number of left backs. Like I keep on saying, elite sport management is complex, there are other factors to consider and it takes time and patience to change things. This is a tough League and we started well. We were in good shape and playing OK up until Christmas. The injuries to Etherington and Wilson haven't helped, Adam and Kightly haven't delivered as we hoped and Pennant's gone completely awol. All this has impacted on the teams performance. It isn't really 18 months. From after Christmas until the end of last season we were still involved in the Europa League, and finished comfortably in mid table. The beginning of this season was OK. You can't simply ignore a 10 game unbeaten run and 8th in the League because it doesn't suit your argument. So it's really down to the run since the New Year. You see it differently to me. Eventually TP will leave and I agree with Doz, it will be a sad day for Stoke City Football Club. It's just a little sad that a bloke who has given us so much can almost thrown away in our quest for change and prettier, more media friendly football. I haven't ignored the 10 game unbeaten run because it suits my argument - indeed I actually highlighted the run because it MAKES my argument. Without it we'd already be down, apart from that run it's been god damn awful now for a season and a half. From the 21st Jan last year until the end of the season we took fifteen points from 17 games, that's less than a point a game - it was relegation form LAST YEAR too. We played two games in the Europa League after Christmas, that's all - you'll recall that we lost them both.
|
|
|
Post by stokeramblers on Apr 25, 2013 9:54:06 GMT
Paul, it is well documented that they have looked at a number of left backs. Two that Pulis turned his nose up at.... Boenisch signed for 3rd placed Bundesliga side Bayer Leverkusen. Goran Popov is having a successful season with over achievers West Brom. Not good enough for the mightly Potters though! ;D
|
|
|
Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Apr 25, 2013 9:57:56 GMT
So apart from the games in which we pick up points, we show relegation form? That's pretty much the case for every team outside the top 7 though, surely.
We'd got 29 points at Christmas after a really tough first 10 games. How is that bad/relegation form? Don't forget we were 8th FFS! ;-)
|
|
|
Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Apr 25, 2013 10:02:00 GMT
Err, Popov's started 9 games for the Baggies, one of which he was infamously sent off in, for spitting at an opponent.
Successful season?
|
|
Junglist
Youth Player
When it's time.....I will shut you down
Posts: 456
|
Post by Junglist on Apr 25, 2013 10:02:03 GMT
Paul, it is well documented that they have looked at a number of left backs. Like I keep on saying, elite sport management is complex, there are other factors to consider and it takes time and patience to change things. This is a tough League and we started well. We were in good shape and playing OK up until Christmas. The injuries to Etherington and Wilson haven't helped, Adam and Kightly haven't delivered as we hoped and Pennant's gone completely awol. All this has impacted on the teams performance. It isn't really 18 months. From after Christmas until the end of last season we were still involved in the Europa League, and finished comfortably in mid table. The beginning of this season was OK. You can't simply ignore a 10 game unbeaten run and 8th in the League because it doesn't suit your argument. So it's really down to the run since the New Year. You see it differently to me. Eventually TP will leave and I agree with Doz, it will be a sad day for Stoke City Football Club. It's just a little sad that a bloke who has given us so much can almost thrown away in our quest for change and prettier, more media friendly football. Indeed. It's a dangerous game that many of these Oatcake regulars are asking us to play. Whilst I fully agree with Trouserdog, MarkW, Paul, Pugs and more recently RobVD about the dire, relentless attritional spectacle we are expected to enjoy, the transition now is at the focus of much concern for me. Pulis' game plan was simply to compete in the Prem with legal aggression, physical presence and a ruthless team mentality. He wrote the manual on it. But we are all tired of it now. Really, we've all had enough of being labelled the party crashers to the Prem. I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that if we lose Pulis we will be very likely relegated within the next season. But if he stays, I really can't put up with what's being served up either. It's time for Coatesy to give us the magic final twist in a lifelong obsession with SCFC. Tony Pulis has been so utterly brilliant for this club, equalled Waddo (in my opinion), but i'd love to see where a red-hot managerial appointment could take us.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 10:02:24 GMT
Paul, it is well documented that they have looked at a number of left backs. Two that Pulis turned his nose up at.... Boenisch signed for 3rd placed Bundesliga side Bayer Leverkusen. Goran Popov is having a successful season with over achievers West Brom. Not good enough for the mightly Potters though! ;D to be fair ramblers you have to remember that it was physically impossible to get Popov a work permit so he must be technically an illegal immigrant and is going to be deported sometime soon anyway anyway, why do we want to buy a left back? we already have too many players in centre mid as it is, there's nowhere else to try to lever him into if we want someone for the left back position then i propose we buy a forward that can run loads and shove him in......easy this management lark!
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 25, 2013 10:06:25 GMT
So apart from the games in which we pick up points, we show relegation form? That's pretty much the case for every team outside the top 7 though, surely. We'd got 29 points at Christmas after a really tough first 10 games. How is that bad/relegation form? Don't forget we were 8th FFS! ;-) Because you're trying to claim that we've only been poor for the last four months, whereas the reality of the siutation, is that we have been poor since the start of 2012 save for a run of games in November/December. Prior to the QPR game, we had been averaging a point a game since the start of LAST YEAR, a season and a half in total and of course that includes all the games where we've picked up points. The blip isn't the last four months, the blip is in actual fact, the ten game run we had in November/December.
|
|
Junglist
Youth Player
When it's time.....I will shut you down
Posts: 456
|
Post by Junglist on Apr 25, 2013 10:07:39 GMT
Jupp Heynckes is the man to take this club to the next level.
|
|
|
Post by digger on Apr 25, 2013 10:15:19 GMT
Jupp Heynckes is the man to take this club to the next level. the next level for him is b wing in jail
|
|
|
Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Apr 25, 2013 10:23:29 GMT
Paul, I just don't buy that. It's like saying we've been poor for 18 months except for that bit in the middle when we were good. But let's forget that bit so we can all agree we've been poor for the duration.
We'd got 29 points from 20 games and were in 8th, 4 points off the Europa League and 6 points behind 4th place. And that's after effectively blowing a great opportunity at home in the Southampton game. 20 games is over half a season.
|
|
|
Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Apr 25, 2013 10:30:55 GMT
But Okey, when did we play 'well' in that run of form or results? Hardly ever to be honest mate and it's ironic that the Liverpool result was the beginning of the end.
|
|
|
Post by Jamo on the wing on Apr 25, 2013 10:36:12 GMT
Paul, I just don't buy that. It's like saying we've been poor for 18 months except for that bit in the middle when we were good. But let's forget that bit so we can all agree we've been poor for the duration. We'd got 29 points from 20 games and were in 8th, 4 points off the Europa League and 6 points behind 4th place. And that's after effectively blowing a great opportunity at home in the Southampton game. 20 games is over half a season. That 20 games only gleaned 9 points from the first 10 though. So we are talking about ten games in fact. Ten games out of 50 odd isn't that noteworthy though when the rest has been attritional at best and fucking dire at worst. We were shit for the second half of last season and we've been shit for at least 2/3rds of this one. At what point do we start to question things if not now?
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 25, 2013 10:38:18 GMT
Paul, I just don't buy that. It's like saying we've been poor for 18 months except for that bit in the middle when we were good. But let's forget that bit so we can all agree we've been poor for the duration. We'd got 29 points from 20 games and were in 8th, 4 points off the Europa League and 6 points behind 4th place. And that's after effectively blowing a great opportunity at home in the Southampton game. 20 games is over half a season. First time I've used this emoticon ... I'm looking at the BIGGER PICTURE over an 18 month period and over that period as a whole we've been poor because we've only managed to average a point a game during that time.
Yes there was a blip in November/December when we were unbeaten for 10 games but without that blip, the whole would have ended up being a terrible disaster.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Apr 25, 2013 10:38:53 GMT
So apart from the games in which we pick up points, we show relegation form? That's pretty much the case for every team outside the top 7 though, surely. We'd got 29 points at Christmas after a really tough first 10 games. How is that bad/relegation form? Don't forget we were 8th FFS! ;-) Because you're trying to claim that we've only been poor for the last four months, whereas the reality of the siutation, is that we have been poor since the start of 2012 save for a run of games in November/December. Prior to the QPR game, we had been averaging a point a game since the start of LAST YEAR, a season and a half in total and of course that includes all the games where we've picked up points. The blip isn't the last four months, the blip is in actual fact, the ten game run we had in November/December. Who's your man Paul, to keep us in the Prem and deliver our 2nd ever FA Cup Final and improve on the aesthetics at the same time too?
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 25, 2013 10:48:01 GMT
Because you're trying to claim that we've only been poor for the last four months, whereas the reality of the siutation, is that we have been poor since the start of 2012 save for a run of games in November/December. Prior to the QPR game, we had been averaging a point a game since the start of LAST YEAR, a season and a half in total and of course that includes all the games where we've picked up points. The blip isn't the last four months, the blip is in actual fact, the ten game run we had in November/December. Who's your man Paul, to keep us in the Prem and deliver our 2nd ever FA Cup Final and improve on the aesthetics at the same time too? I've never said anything about improving aesthetics Gods, indeed two years ago I was arguing daily on here with people who were suggesting that we needed to develop/progress/play 'better' football. Pulis is one the finest exponents of defensive, long ball, counter attacking nogger and he should have stuck to what he was good at and not listened to his critics and that's not said in hindsight, it's a point I've argued repeatedly for the last few seasons. If they were available, Allardyce and Bruce would be my top two. However I'd be more than happy with somebody like Poyet if that's where the board felt they needed to go. I'd feel very, very nervous with a Bould or a Neville though, although I could see why people would suggest them.
|
|
|
Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Apr 25, 2013 10:50:44 GMT
Well, I'm not trying to convert anybody, that's for sure, and I can appreciate your arguments and concerns.
I hope we are questioning it right now. What pisses me off is the disrespect and contempt shown by some "supporters" and I must add, not the ones contributing to this debate.
There are some people who would rather see us relegated, would happily accept a lower league position, "anybody but Pulis" etc, not to mention some of the personal abuse.
His football achievements at Stoke City are well documented, but he is also a man of principle who stood by Rory Delap despite his broken leg on a "hand shake", returned for a second half on the day his mother died, raises money each year for the Donna Louise Trust and unlike the once proud and mighty Liverpol Football Club, was not prepared to tolerate the behaviour of an important squad member on a point of principle.
In return for all his football achievements and his character and demeanour off the field, I believe he deserves more respect and loyalty. It's the human element of our football club that may be more important to me than points per games or the number of goals we score in a bad run of form I suppose.
|
|
|
Post by Jamo on the wing on Apr 25, 2013 10:58:15 GMT
Well, I'm not trying to convert anybody, that's for sure, and I can appreciate your arguments and concerns. I hope we are questioning it right now. What pisses me off is the disrespect and contempt shown by some "supporters" and I must add, not the ones contributing to this debate. There are some people who would rather see us relegated, would happily accept a lower league position, "anybody but Pulis" etc, not to mention some of the personal abuse. His football achievements at Stoke City are well documented, but he is also a man of principle who stood by Rory Delap despite his broken leg on a "hand shake", returned for a second half on the day his mother died, raises money each year for the Donna Louise Trust and unlike the once proud and mighty Liverpol Football Club, was not prepared to tolerate the behaviour of an important squad member on a point of principle. In return for all his football achievements and his character and demeanour off the field, I believe he deserves more respect and loyalty. It's the human element of our football club that may be more important to me than points per games or the number of goals we score in a bad run of form I suppose. To be fair though, the people being overly disrespectful are pretty small in number. There's plenty who are not happy but because of the respect fans have for everything Tone has done the crowd hasn't turned other than the odd murmur or exasperated shout to the heavens. Had TP not got such credit in the bank the run of results coupled with the form displayed WOULD have seen any other manager hounded out. As it is I think (believe) the underlying feeling is that Tone deserves a dignified exit but that change is due.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Apr 25, 2013 11:13:47 GMT
Who's your man Paul, to keep us in the Prem and deliver our 2nd ever FA Cup Final and improve on the aesthetics at the same time too? I've never said anything about improving aesthetics Gods, indeed two years ago I was arguing daily on here with people who were suggesting that we needed to develop/progress/play 'better' football. Pulis is one the finest exponents of defensive, long ball, counter attacking nogger and he should have stuck to what he was good at and not listened to his critics and that's not said in hindsight, it's a point I've argued repeatedly for the last few seasons. If they were available, Allardyce and Bruce would be my top two. However I'd be more than happy with somebody like Poyet if that's where the board felt they needed to go. I'd feel very, very nervous with a Bould or a Neville though, although I could see why people would suggest them. Fair enough Paul, we agree on far more than I thought we did. I think Allardyce would be excellent but he has a job which I sense he loves and West Ham would be mad to replace him IMHO.
|
|
|
Post by prudhoe1981 on Apr 25, 2013 11:26:36 GMT
Noel Blake
|
|
|
Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Apr 25, 2013 11:27:54 GMT
You're right Jamo, maybe he has used up most of his goodwill, and maybe I would be a fairly poor Chairman who would get rooted in sentimentality.
Gods has consistently highlighted another problem. Allardyce looks as though he is on the point of signing a new contract at West Ham, Bruce(? - great when things are going well - not so clever in a trough) is about to be promoted with Hull and Poyet has been well backed at Brighton, a club he may see as a project and who might also get promotion this season.
How many good candidates would have to be unavailable before we say, OK, let's stick with TP for another season? Surely we are not going to say thanks and farewell to TP without having a replacement lined up? That would be straight out of the Jez Moxey school of recruitment.
So if all rumours are to be believed, that would mean the next manager is already in place. So it's Martin O'Neill? Out of a sizzling frying pan that needs a bit of a stir into a red hot inferno for me.
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Apr 25, 2013 12:13:32 GMT
Manager OddsDi Matteo has been cut this afternoon from 6/1 to 4/1f with Victor Chandler. And 10/1 to 5/1f with Stan James. For what it's worth (nothing!)
|
|
|
Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Apr 25, 2013 12:16:40 GMT
It just looks like more and more of an unnecessary risk with no clear benefits the longer this goes on.
|
|
|
Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 25, 2013 12:21:03 GMT
Paul, it is well documented that they have looked at a number of left backs. Like I keep on saying, elite sport management is complex, there are other factors to consider and it takes time and patience to change things. This is a tough League and we started well. We were in good shape and playing OK up until Christmas. The injuries to Etherington and Wilson haven't helped, Adam and Kightly haven't delivered as we hoped and Pennant's gone completely awol. All this has impacted on the teams performance. It isn't really 18 months. From after Christmas until the end of last season we were still involved in the Europa League, and finished comfortably in mid table. The beginning of this season was OK. You can't simply ignore a 10 game unbeaten run and 8th in the League because it doesn't suit your argument. So it's really down to the run since the New Year. You see it differently to me. Eventually TP will leave and I agree with Doz, it will be a sad day for Stoke City Football Club. It's just a little sad that a bloke who has given us so much can be almost thrown away in our quest for change and prettier, more media friendly football. Sorry mate but you are talking utter shite here, he has had more than enough time, he has bought footballers to the club to improve us he either plays them in the wrong position or not at all and we have gone backwards, it's his own doing, he selects the teams and the players he wishes to sign he's a stubborn mule, his lack of match ambition is embarrasing and so are his tactics. It is a little sad I agree but he has nobody to blame but himself.
|
|
|
Post by geoff321 on Apr 25, 2013 12:24:33 GMT
If Tony Pulis wants to leave Stoke, that's his choice and everyone should respect that. If he was sacked though, that would be a highly irresponsible decision. Of course Cloughie said, " Football hooligans- well, there are 92 club chairmen for a start. " Regarding Gus Poyet, that would be a highly risky appointment. Even if he was successful my guess would be that he would jump ship for a bigger club at the drop of a hat. Isn't that what he would be doing if he leaves Brighton?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 12:26:07 GMT
Eddie Howe at 66/1 is an interesting outside shot. I might stick a quid on it (and watch his odds tumble to 20s )
|
|
|
Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 25, 2013 12:28:11 GMT
If Tony Pulis wants to leave Stoke, that's his choice and everyone should respect that. If he was sacked though, that would be a highly irresponsible decision. Of course Cloughie said, " Football hooligans- well, there are 92 club chairmen for a start. " Regarding Gus Poyet, that would be a highly risky appointment. Even if he was successful my guess would be that he would jump ship for a bigger club at the drop of a hat. Isn't that what he would be doing if he leaves Brighton? so we should stick with Mr Negative, boring & Gutless then because nobody would want him? According to you Pulis has worked Minor Miracles, why has no-one come in for him? Answers on a postcard to P.O. Box stumped 324543
|
|
|
Post by realstokebloke on Apr 25, 2013 12:30:57 GMT
Eddie Howe at 66/1 is an interesting outside shot. I might stick a quid on it (and watch his odds tumble to 20s ) Steady Eddie did nowt on his last venture oop North as the bright young thing at Burnley though did he?
Albeit, he has, i guess, repaired that possible glitch on his CV.
Should be way longer odds than that though surely?
|
|
|
Post by realstokebloke on Apr 25, 2013 12:31:49 GMT
Nige Worthington I tell you.
|
|