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Post by Pugsley on Apr 24, 2013 20:40:58 GMT
Poor start and in the bottom three by end of October and he will step down, trust me. It's that kind of idiotic thinking that will see us on the road to relegation. The writing has been on the wall for 18 months yet some people think he needs more time and, unbelievably, more money. |
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 24, 2013 20:43:46 GMT
Poor start and in the bottom three by end of October and he will step down, trust me. Why then and not now though? That'd make a new manager's job all the more difficult because he'd have spunked another wodge of cash on new players. We'd be fools to forego the chance of a well-managed succession this summer. A full pre-season after a summer's preparation ,and his own purchasing, is the least any new man deserves, particularly when following a manager as unique as TP. We shouldn't wait until the train crashes to make the change. We're clearly off the rails at this point and in desperate need of a shake-up, particularly as TP's attitude to the transfer market and youth is diametrically opposed to the way the club is being aligned |
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Post by digger on Apr 24, 2013 20:45:00 GMT
There's no need to worry about being in the bottom three. Tone's arranging for the pitch to be made narrower, the penalty box bigger and the crossbar lifted six inches, and you call him clueless. (bravo)that my friend is the work of a genius   |
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Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 24, 2013 20:45:42 GMT
Davef mentioned my favourite manager Brian Clough, here's a telling quote from the great man. " Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes " Great stuff. Very good Geoffrey, what do you make of this one? "If God had wanted us to play football in the clouds, he'd have put grass up there." On the importance of passing to feet. |
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 24, 2013 20:46:09 GMT
There's no need to worry about being in the bottom three. Tone's arranging for the pitch to be made narrower, the penalty box bigger and the crossbar lifted six inches, and you call him clueless. Jesus wept, how pathetic. |
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Apr 24, 2013 20:49:24 GMT
There's no need to worry about being in the bottom three. Tone's arranging for the pitch to be made narrower, the penalty box bigger and the crossbar lifted six inches, and you call him clueless. Jesus wept, how pathetic. I can see a pattern forming, pugs! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2013 20:51:40 GMT
There's no need to worry about being in the bottom three. Tone's arranging for the pitch to be made narrower, the penalty box bigger and the crossbar lifted six inches, and you call him clueless. (bravo)that my friend is the work of a genius FFS...!! |
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Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 24, 2013 20:53:46 GMT
Jesus Rob, how can you say progressive with Bould? Also MON wouldn't give much more over TP. His penchant for CBs at FB and a big lump (fucking Heskey) up front would be met with the same disdain as some of TPs issues. He also plays Midfielders at FB, Rose and Gardner both appeared there. I do think however he would fit in well with Coates and the squad wouldn't' need too much change to accommodate his style of play. Bould on the other hand has achieved nothing. To me progressive would even be Davies from Crwho, perhaps even give Eddie Howe another shot at a move up North. Our club may suit him more as it is more like something he is accustomed to. Before I'm asked my ultimate would be The baby faced assassin. I would also love to see Benitez (if we have a chance in hell). Both would obviously be potentially short term following success if a bigger team came calling. However I dare say IF TP had played a more attractive style that he'd have been head hunted before now. It's the way of the world...big fish eat little fish. Failing a huge fall from grace akin to the Orange One Laudrup will be the next despite what he may say. Personally I'd like to catch a manager on the up or one after a "new challenge" that can add to our solid foundations...even if they only play a small part in our progress. I share the 'too much too soon' concerns about too drastic a change overnight from our current style to a passing game. I far from agree with this, we have a squad full of good footballers who are very capable of playing "football" only they are not allowed to or they don't play, a full pre season with a good manager and proper training sessions doing the basics and we'd be well away. |
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Apr 24, 2013 20:53:56 GMT
Zola would be on my list if he fails to get promoted with Watford
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2013 20:55:05 GMT
I share the 'too much too soon' concerns about too drastic a change overnight from our current style to a passing game. I far from agree with this Historically a pretty good indication I'm on the right track.  |
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 24, 2013 20:55:10 GMT
Jesus wept, how pathetic. I can see a pattern forming, pugs! Please do tell coz Geoff and digger are on another planet. |
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Post by digger on Apr 24, 2013 20:56:04 GMT
i thought it was funny you got a problem with that
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Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 24, 2013 20:56:19 GMT
There's no need to worry about being in the bottom three. Tone's arranging for the pitch to be made narrower, the penalty box bigger and the crossbar lifted six inches, and you call him clueless. Jesus wept, how pathetic. This guy is nothing more than a wind up, he has to be. |
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Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 24, 2013 20:57:52 GMT
I far from agree with this Historically a pretty good indication I'm on the right track. You wish. |
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Apr 24, 2013 20:59:42 GMT
I can see a pattern forming, pugs! Please do tell coz Geoff and digger are on another planet. I've given up, mate. As yet I've not seen anything from him that's backed up with facts, substance or an argument that isn't based on Tone being "ace". It's hard to argue with such a compelling defence of what we've witnessed over the last two seasons. |
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 24, 2013 21:07:03 GMT
Jesus Rob, how can you say progressive with Bould? Also MON wouldn't give much more over TP. His penchant for CBs at FB and a big lump (fucking Heskey) up front would be met with the same disdain as some of TPs issues. He also plays Midfielders at FB, Rose and Gardner both appeared there. I do think however he would fit in well with Coates and the squad wouldn't' need too much change to accommodate his style of play. Bould on the other hand has achieved nothing. To me progressive would even be Davies from Crwho, perhaps even give Eddie Howe another shot at a move up North. Our club may suit him more as it is more like something he is accustomed to. Before I'm asked my ultimate would be The baby faced assassin. I would also love to see Benitez (if we have a chance in hell). Both would obviously be potentially short term following success if a bigger team came calling. However I dare say IF TP had played a more attractive style that he'd have been head hunted before now. It's the way of the world...big fish eat little fish. Failing a huge fall from grace akin to the Orange One Laudrup will be the next despite what he may say. Personally I'd like to catch a manager on the up or one after a "new challenge" that can add to our solid foundations...even if they only play a small part in our progress. Bould's been getting credit for his coaching work for years. I know it's not the same as management, but then I don't see how winning a couple of pots in Norway is any better grounding for the Premier League really? Howe didn't seem to do a huge amount at Burnley. I share the 'too much too soon' concerns about too drastic a change overnight from our current style to a passing game.How many of the current outfield players do you see being regulars next season under any manager though, Rob? Apart from the centre-halves and N'Zonzi, is anyone nailed down? Wilson maybe - but at least potentially not at full-back? We're going to need HUGE rebuilding regardless. Let's say we modified our style, the likes of Adam, Wilson, and Cuvelier - for argument's sake - could play some part in a differently set-up midfield and would be arguably more at home there than the cage. Is it being wild to suggest any new manager would be looking at AT LEAST 5 new players coming in as starters? It'd be just as much a bind to get them up to speed on the peculiar demands of Pulisball shape as any other style? Huth and Shawcross would definitely have to modify their style, and they'd notice the difference more than anyone, but I think they're up to it if they keep it simple. |
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Post by Onneravineet on Apr 24, 2013 21:08:21 GMT
I agree with FullerMagic.
We can simply not forgo the golden opportunity that an end of season exit for TP offers.
1. HUGE influx of new money, allowing a new manager to deliver some of his own DNA into the squad. Also announce their arrival with perhaps a big name or two.
2. Full post and per season to bring about the much needed evolution and bedding in process.
3. Sell on those that don't fit the new manager's style, a much better use of resources and wage budget.
4. Massive lift in season ticket sales and a move to position the BET365 affiliation away from the turgid name for our brand of football.
Add to this that, if safe, TP gets to part on the VERY best of terms on our 150th celebration with, no doubt, a personal message of gratitude from Mr Coates. The club would have been seen in a VERY good light as being well run by FOOTBALL people and a chairman that knows the score. Add some VERY positive spin that it was planned all along as KKK suggests on his thread and I have to say...I am starting to believe it will happen.
Well, for one, it has my full support.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2013 21:10:48 GMT
I think we've got a decent nucleus Grapey, for the reasons and names you suggest.
Assuming full backs are a given, we'd need to decide whether we were sticking with wingers and target men as our main dilemmas.
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 24, 2013 21:20:10 GMT
I agree with FullerMagic. We can simply not forgo the golden opportunity that an end of season exit for TP offers. 1. HUGE influx of new money, allowing a new manager to deliver some of his own DNA into the squad. Also announce their arrival with perhaps a big name or two. 2. Full post and per season to bring about the much needed evolution and bedding in process. 3. Sell on those that don't fit the new manager's style, a much better use of resources and wage budget. 4. Massive lift in season ticket sales and a move to position the BET365 affiliation away from the turgid name for our brand of football. Add to this that, if safe, TP gets to part on the VERY best of terms on our 150th celebration with, no doubt, a personal message of gratitude from Mr Coates. The club would have been seen in a VERY good light as being well run by FOOTBALL people and a chairman that knows the score. Add some VERY positive spin that it was planned all along as KKK suggests on his thread and I have to say...I am starting to believe it will happen. Well, for one, it has my full support. Me too, Onner. Especially the bit about agreeing with me! I think we've got a decent nucleus Grapey, for the reasons and names you suggest. Assuming full backs are a given, we'd need to decide whether we were sticking with wingers and target men as our main dilemmas. Yeah. Lots of decisions to be made with the personnel and direction of the team, Rob. Almost too many for one summer really - but that's where we are... I hope the new man, if there is to be one, is in place before June for that reason. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2013 22:36:48 GMT
Paul, I was expecting more of a backlash! Thanks for going easy on a sentimental fool! What did he spend last summer? Around £9m on Adam/N'Zonzi/Kightly (£4m + £3m + £2m?) + bits and pieces on Ness and Edu? He must have thought he could do something with Adam and that hasn't worked out. I would have thought that even if he sold him 1 year older, he would at least get his money back. I still hold out hope for Michael Kightly, even if it is as cover/sub. N'Zonzi is a win/win: decent player or decent fee. I think that the downward spiral in form and confidence since the New Year has been dreadful, but up until then we did OK. Premier League survival is key to SCFC, and I have said before that the prospect of relegation is the only reason managers get sacked below the top 7. In answer to your question though, no, I wouldn't keep on defending him if he can't turn it around. I've said earlier on this thread that I personally would give him next season, but I would accept that if we were still not creating and scoring goals resulting in us looking like relegation candidates then Christmas would be the natural time for change.
My decision to stick is based partly on loyalty, partly on a genuine belief that he can turn it around(based on the facts that he's delivered before) partly on his great relationship with PC and partly because there is no guaranteed better realistic option. For me, the potential benefits of change are just not worth ditching a bloke who has done so much for this football club. So essentially the only difference between you and I, is that you want to give him another five months, whereas I want him gone at the end of the season? We haven't been creating and scoring goals for two seasons now, despite huge spending on players and we're certainly looking like relegation candidates, erm ... right now. However if you give him another five months then you're going to have to give him ANOTHER ruck of cash to spend in the summer. We've got seven players out of contract this summer and that's before you consider the other essential players we're going to need - some serious rebuilding is going to need doing during THIS transfer window. We'd be fools to forego the chance of a well-managed succession this summer. This would allow the new man to build the team in his own image and give him a full pre season with his new purchases. How can you say that the NATURAL time for change would be next Christmas - it doesn't make any sense? Wait to bring the new man in until five months after a boat load of money has been spent by a manager we don't want anymore and then give the new man NO PRE-SEASON to work with the players - it's (with respect) an absolutely nuts way of going about things. There is absolutely no reason to give TP another five months but blind sentimentality, especially when it's going to cost us so much to do so. |
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Post by realstokebloke on Apr 24, 2013 22:43:58 GMT
Paul's right.
If we transpose our post Christmas form this season to pre Christmas next season, we'll be rooted at the bottom of the table, with an absolute mountain to climb.
So if it's going to go down this way, the Summer / "now" (i.e. as soon as safety is reached) is the time.
No question.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2013 22:45:21 GMT
And if we're still in a similar position at Christmas, it'll be a case of "He's kept us in the Prem so far, and these are his players. He knows how to get the best out of them, and there's little point bringing in a new manager now. Let's see what happens after the next transfer window then we can review the situation at the end of the season."
Then in April 2014,.....
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2013 22:55:52 GMT
And if we're still in a similar position at Christmas, it'll be a case of "He's kept us in the Prem so far, and these are his players. He knows how to get the best out of them, and there's little point bringing in a new manager now. Let's see what happens after the next transfer window then we can review the situation at that time." Then in April 2014,..... Indeed FCF ... You were saying give him loyalty and time to turn it round a year ago though okey and we've ended up getting even worse. You really think after the season we've had, it's okay for you to go with exactly the same argument again? If we give him another bundle of cash to spend this summer and we have another season like this one next term, are you genuinely going to be here in a year's time asking for TP to be given more money and more time? |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Apr 25, 2013 0:00:08 GMT
All hail big Gus!
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Junglist
Youth Player
When it's time.....I will shut you down
Posts: 456
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Post by Junglist on Apr 25, 2013 6:45:46 GMT
Apologies if this has been mentioned already but i'd love us to have a punt on Jupp Heynckes from Bayern Munich. He's free in the summer, OK at 67, no spring chicken but I think getting him in would be sensational. He's also expressed a desire to manage in England before he retires. I think you'd have to regard him as a fairly safe bet to take over from Pulis and he could exploit the Bundesliga transfer market which is easily the most improved league in Europe over the last few years.
All this talk of Gus Poyet, Roberto Martinez, Ole Gunnar Solksjaer and Gary Neville really gets me worried and frankly if you were to put a gun to my head, I honestly think i'd rather keep Pulis than any of these chaps. Moyes and Benitez are non-starters for me too. We have to be very cautious over this new appointment and I really think that Peter Coates will be agonising over what to do if Pulis decides to throw the towel in, which seems a distinct possibility.
Of all the British candidates available i'd have to say Martin O'Neill is the standout one for me. OK, not great at Sunderland but he's well proven at this level.
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Post by thesandbankskid on Apr 25, 2013 7:32:32 GMT
And if we're still in a similar position at Christmas, it'll be a case of "He's kept us in the Prem so far, and these are his players. He knows how to get the best out of them, and there's little point bringing in a new manager now. Let's see what happens after the next transfer window then we can review the situation at the end of the season." Then in April 2014,..... Spot on mate, he has to go asap to give the new manager as much time as physically possible. |
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Apr 25, 2013 8:38:54 GMT
Paul, I was expecting more of a backlash! Thanks for going easy on a sentimental fool! What did he spend last summer? Around £9m on Adam/N'Zonzi/Kightly (£4m + £3m + £2m?) + bits and pieces on Ness and Edu? He must have thought he could do something with Adam and that hasn't worked out. I would have thought that even if he sold him 1 year older, he would at least get his money back. I still hold out hope for Michael Kightly, even if it is as cover/sub. N'Zonzi is a win/win: decent player or decent fee. I think that the downward spiral in form and confidence since the New Year has been dreadful, but up until then we did OK. Premier League survival is key to SCFC, and I have said before that the prospect of relegation is the only reason managers get sacked below the top 7. In answer to your question though, no, I wouldn't keep on defending him if he can't turn it around. I've said earlier on this thread that I personally would give him next season, but I would accept that if we were still not creating and scoring goals resulting in us looking like relegation candidates then Christmas would be the natural time for change.
My decision to stick is based partly on loyalty, partly on a genuine belief that he can turn it around(based on the facts that he's delivered before) partly on his great relationship with PC and partly because there is no guaranteed better realistic option. For me, the potential benefits of change are just not worth ditching a bloke who has done so much for this football club. So essentially the only difference between you and I, is that you want to give him another five months, whereas I want him gone at the end of the season? We haven't been creating and scoring goals for two seasons now, despite huge spending on players and we're certainly looking like relegation candidates, erm ... right now. However if you give him another five months then you're going to have to give him ANOTHER ruck of cash to spend in the summer. We've got seven players out of contract this summer and that's before you consider the other essential players we're going to need - some serious rebuilding is going to need doing during THIS transfer window. We'd be fools to forego the chance of a well-managed succession this summer. This would allow the new man to build the team in his own image and give him a full pre season with his new purchases. How can you say that the NATURAL time for change would be next Christmas - it doesn't make any sense? Wait to bring the new man in until five months after a boat load of money has been spent by a manager we don't want anymore and then give the new man NO PRE-SEASON to work with the players - it's (with respect) an absolutely nuts way of going about things. There is absolutely no reason to give TP another five months but blind sentimentality, especially when it's going to cost us so much to do so. But that "5 months" is my worst case scenario. I don't think that would happen. I said in the line before I would be quite happy to give him all next season, pretty confident that under TP we would not be relegated. I genuinely believe he knows what needs to be fixed and his track record over the last 10 years at Stoke City would suggest he can turn it around. You see I think we would be fools to replace a good man and one of our greatest managers, basically because we've had a difficult 4 months. Sometimes you have to ride out the difficult times until you can make the changes required to bring the good times back. And before you say "It's 18 months" I am fairly sure nobody would have thought it would be a good idea to replace TP on Boxing Day, when we had just dismantled Liverpool and moved up to 8th in the league. |
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Post by liathroid on Apr 25, 2013 8:49:42 GMT
If TP leaves as per speculation and according to some the Stoke board want him to go,it looks like its true.So atm we are actively looking for someone (question)or are we going to wait until 31st of August to appoint someone (question)something has to happen fast
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 25, 2013 9:11:27 GMT
So essentially the only difference between you and I, is that you want to give him another five months, whereas I want him gone at the end of the season? We haven't been creating and scoring goals for two seasons now, despite huge spending on players and we're certainly looking like relegation candidates, erm ... right now. However if you give him another five months then you're going to have to give him ANOTHER ruck of cash to spend in the summer. We've got seven players out of contract this summer and that's before you consider the other essential players we're going to need - some serious rebuilding is going to need doing during THIS transfer window. We'd be fools to forego the chance of a well-managed succession this summer. This would allow the new man to build the team in his own image and give him a full pre season with his new purchases. How can you say that the NATURAL time for change would be next Christmas - it doesn't make any sense? Wait to bring the new man in until five months after a boat load of money has been spent by a manager we don't want anymore and then give the new man NO PRE-SEASON to work with the players - it's (with respect) an absolutely nuts way of going about things. There is absolutely no reason to give TP another five months but blind sentimentality, especially when it's going to cost us so much to do so. But that "5 months" is my worst case scenario. I don't think that would happen. I said in the line before I would be quite happy to give him all next season, pretty confident that under TP we would not be relegated. I genuinely believe he knows what needs to be fixed and his track record over the last 10 years at Stoke City would suggest he can turn it around. You see I think we would be fools to replace a good man and one of our greatest managers, basically because we've had a difficult 4 months. Sometimes you have to ride out the difficult times until you can make the changes required to bring the good times back. And before you say "It's 18 months" I am fairly sure nobody would have thought it would be a good idea to replace TP on Boxing Day, when we had just dismantled Liverpool and moved up to 8th in the league. Thing is okey you were saying that you genuinely believed he knew what needed to be fixed and he could turn it around a year ago and since then things have got worse. And it IS 18 months, during that time our record has been awful, save for a 10 game blip in November/December 2012 and without that blip we'd already have been relegated. If it was only the last four months, why were you defending him, saying he would turn it around, at the start of the season? Then you said you expected him to turn it around and defended him by saying that he would address the neccessary areas of the squad accordingly, heavens forbid last summer you were confidently predicting that this time he would even bring in a left back because it was so blindgly obvious that we needed one. However he didn't it turn it around - IT GOT WORSE. And now you want to give him even more money and more time because you still believe 'he can turn it around'. Can you see a pattern emerging here? |
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Post by eddyclamp on Apr 25, 2013 9:16:03 GMT
What about Mickey Adams
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