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Post by philm87 on Nov 19, 2012 22:36:14 GMT
As soon as Wilko went our sub options were limited as they often were last season for a variety of reasons. As WH found their momentum second half it was our midfield that had to be bolstered. Jones was never going to get a look in. It was tactics not a vendetta against Jones - who i think should be given a couple of starts btw. This makes sense if we're being honest. I think we will see more of Jones as an impact sub this season but Wilko forced us to make an early change and Glenn needed replacing too.
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Post by bobbystokie on Nov 19, 2012 22:38:59 GMT
Crouch has looked poor tonight - sometimes a game cries out for jones's physicality. What's the man got to do to have a decent run out? Work as hard as Crouch?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 22:40:07 GMT
As soon as Wilko went our sub options were limited as they often were last season for a variety of reasons. As WH found their momentum second half it was our midfield that had to be bolstered. Jones was never going to get a look in. It was tactics not a vendetta against Jones - who i think should be given a couple of starts btw. This makes sense if we're being honest. I think we will see more of Jones as an impact sub this season but Wilko forced us to make an early change and Glenn needed replacing too. Any talk of a vendetta is idiotic and I'm not sure that anyone has suggested it? Fact is, Crouch is struggling, looking pretty crap, and is 6 games without a goal. Usually this is where a good squad gets used to good effect. Not sure why its taking Tony so long to see the underlying issue. Kenwyne might not prove to be the saviour. But to not even try to find out??????
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Post by bobbystokie on Nov 19, 2012 22:41:09 GMT
It was all those crosses Crouch missed?All those through balls?We didnt create one single chance in open play.Not even the new messiah Kenwyne could have got on the end of no chances.
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Post by bobbystokie on Nov 19, 2012 22:44:44 GMT
why do you think we brought crouch in the first place?kj just wasnt doing it for us. having said that i would like to see him coming on in the last 30 mins to have a run at tired legs? That is frankly ludicrous. The only thing Jones did wrong was to not be Peter Crouch. Since Crouch has arrived, Jones has been playing second fiddle, more lately to a bloke that simply doesn't fit the system. I'm starting to rue the day Pulis got his hard-on for Crouch, because since that day we have regressed as an attacking force. Kenwyne lacked a little aggression at times; but to play the role of lone target man, you need decent pace, physicality, and aggression, or at least two of those three elements. I'd say KJ has two of those three, Crouch has none. Yes in comparing the two lets compare their records at international and Champions League level?
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Post by jeycov on Nov 19, 2012 22:46:17 GMT
As soon as Wilko went our sub options were limited as they often were last season for a variety of reasons. As WH found their momentum second half it was our midfield that had to be bolstered. Jones was never going to get a look in. It was tactics not a vendetta against Jones - who i think should be given a couple of starts btw. This makes sense if we're being honest. I think we will see more of Jones as an impact sub this season but Wilko forced us to make an early change and Glenn needed replacing too. I think that some of the negative comments here re Peters Crouchs success in attack, would be justified had Wilkinson been able to continue. His defensive positioning did come to our rescue when under lots of pressure. I agree he needs some support up front - just hope that Michael Owen can have a run out with PC at some point or KJ / CJ play alongside him - even at the expense of a winger.
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Post by Peters Pipe on Nov 19, 2012 22:50:38 GMT
Who is this Owen you speak of? ???
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Post by roylandstoke on Nov 19, 2012 22:52:22 GMT
Crouch has looked poor tonight - sometimes a game cries out for jones's physicality. What's the man got to do to have a decent run out? Work as hard as Crouch? I'd be happy if Crouch was working as hard as hard as an average premiership footballer. He knows he is going to play every week and is currently putting buggar all effort in. He runs slower than Begovic would do, is an absolute weakling in possession and seems to have forgotten that we play in stripes.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 22:54:49 GMT
That is frankly ludicrous. The only thing Jones did wrong was to not be Peter Crouch. Since Crouch has arrived, Jones has been playing second fiddle, more lately to a bloke that simply doesn't fit the system. I'm starting to rue the day Pulis got his hard-on for Crouch, because since that day we have regressed as an attacking force. Kenwyne lacked a little aggression at times; but to play the role of lone target man, you need decent pace, physicality, and aggression, or at least two of those three elements. I'd say KJ has two of those three, Crouch has none. Yes in comparing the two lets compare their records at international and Champions League level? No let's not, because it is irrelevant. Because Crouch has played for England, it means he fits our 4-5--------1 formation?? If you say so.
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Post by roylandstoke on Nov 19, 2012 23:02:20 GMT
That is frankly ludicrous. The only thing Jones did wrong was to not be Peter Crouch. Since Crouch has arrived, Jones has been playing second fiddle, more lately to a bloke that simply doesn't fit the system. I'm starting to rue the day Pulis got his hard-on for Crouch, because since that day we have regressed as an attacking force. Kenwyne lacked a little aggression at times; but to play the role of lone target man, you need decent pace, physicality, and aggression, or at least two of those three elements. I'd say KJ has two of those three, Crouch has none. Yes in comparing the two lets compare their records at international and Champions League level? Raul and Pippo Inzaghi have pretty decent records at the those levels but neither of them would fit a Tony Pulis side.
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Post by albundy on Nov 19, 2012 23:09:38 GMT
Is the problem Crouch or the system that we play? The issue as I see it is that Crouch is always trying to keep the ball away from 2 defenders and keep it until he gets some support. With someone alongside him all game waiting for his flick ons and knock downs the team would be a lot more effective going forward.
I don't see it being any different with Jones up front. I think that Jones is poor at keeping the ball and passing it around.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 23:14:32 GMT
Yes in comparing the two lets compare their records at international and Champions League level? Raul and Pippo Inzaghi have pretty decent records at the those levels but neither of them would fit a Tony Pulis side. Or, even our very own Michael Owen. He wouldn't fit into our system either, as lone striker, with a 5-man caged midfield 50 yards away, though he might just injure himself on the stray bits of tumbleweed which frequent the space where our second striker should be.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 23:15:59 GMT
Is the problem Crouch or the system that we play? The issue as I see it is that Crouch is always trying to keep the ball away from 2 defenders and keep it until he gets some support. With someone alongside him all game waiting for his flick ons and knock downs the team would be a lot more effective going forward. I don't see it being any different with Jones up front. I think that Jones is poor at keeping the ball and passing it around. It's ultimately the system, allied with the fact that we don't have the right players to play it.
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Post by stokemanusa on Nov 20, 2012 7:58:16 GMT
Jones wont' score a goal in the PL for a while, unless there is a blunt attached to the ball. Damn waste of a professional and my T&T friends "know" he is a lazy Mofo they grew up with him. TP knows his attitude. Why do you think Walters always starts? he gives 110%
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Post by ichabodcheesecake on Nov 20, 2012 8:16:24 GMT
Crouch had no service and defended well. Why change it? Etherington as usual failed to supply any ball to him but dimwits like Jarhead will never see that. The point justified Crouch staying on
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Post by Danstoke82 on Nov 20, 2012 8:26:46 GMT
I thought Crouch did ok, he was far from poor. He flicked the ball on well and defended superbly.
However, he seemed less effective as an attacking force second half and I would of liked to have seen Jones come on to offer the West Ham defence something a bit different. I also think Jerome could have been given a go as their centre backs would of struggled with his pace. For me though, it was clear that Pulis sat us back for pretty much a large chunk of the second half so was quite happy to keep Crouch as a lone striker.
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Post by biganddaft on Nov 20, 2012 8:32:06 GMT
TP knows what he gets with Crouch, unlike KJ, who will play if he feels like.
I for one, would like to see KJ sold. Lets not forget why he was replaced by Crouch. He's a lazy arsed sod with little or no commitment to the team.
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Post by werrington on Nov 20, 2012 8:38:28 GMT
TP knows what he gets with Crouch, unlike KJ, who will play if he feels like. I for one, would like to see KJ sold. Lets not forget why he was replaced by Crouch. He's a lazy arsed sod with little or no commitment to the team. He was playing fantastic until we signed Crouch. What had he done wrong as we had got to the FA Cup final and he was part of a Stoke side who were playing excellent football? 3 games into the following season we signed Crouch and all of a sudden to justify it people say he was lazy and shit? Crouch is indeed fantastic but lets cut to the chase here we neither needed him and the football has gone backwards since we signed him as he doesnt fit the Pulis style.
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Post by y2j on Nov 20, 2012 10:37:00 GMT
Spot on, it isn't Crouch playing badly, it's the lack of support he has around him. Jones would be the same. Think about it logically. We have Walters and Matty / Kightly out-wide but as the latter has said, he spends more time defending that he does as an out and out winger. When he gets the ball, her has 2 / 3 players around him, and struggles to hold onto it (as anyone would).
[quote author=albundy board=Potters thread=202783 post=3609826 time=1353366578]Is the problem Crouch or the system that we play? The issue as I see it is that Crouch is always trying to keep the ball away from 2 defenders and keep it until he gets some support. With someone alongside him all game waiting for his flick ons and knock downs the team would be a lot more effective going forward.
I don't see it being any different with Jones up front. I think that Jones is poor at keeping the ball and passing it around.[/quote]
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Post by foster on Nov 20, 2012 10:40:42 GMT
I would have preferred to see Jerome on with 20 minutes to play in yesterdays game.
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Post by roylandstoke on Nov 20, 2012 11:20:52 GMT
TP knows what he gets with Crouch, unlike KJ, who will play if he feels like. I for one, would like to see KJ sold. Lets not forget why he was replaced by Crouch. He's a lazy arsed sod with little or no commitment to the team. He was playing fantastic until we signed Crouch. What had he done wrong as we had got to the FA Cup final and he was part of a Stoke side who were playing excellent football? 3 games into the following season we signed Crouch and all of a sudden to justify it people say he was lazy and shit? Crouch is indeed fantastic but lets cut to the chase here we neither needed him and the football has gone backwards since we signed him as he doesnt fit the Pulis style. Agreed 100%.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 20, 2012 23:37:59 GMT
TP knows what he gets with Crouch, unlike KJ, who will play if he feels like. I for one, would like to see KJ sold. Lets not forget why he was replaced by Crouch. He's a lazy arsed sod with little or no commitment to the team. He was playing fantastic until we signed Crouch. What had he done wrong as we had got to the FA Cup final and he was part of a Stoke side who were playing excellent football? 3 games into the following season we signed Crouch and all of a sudden to justify it people say he was lazy and shit? Crouch is indeed fantastic but lets cut to the chase here we neither needed him and the football has gone backwards since we signed him as he doesnt fit the Pulis style. Tbf that isn't quite true! oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Potters&action=display&thread=164701A thread from after his first season.
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Post by roylandstoke on Nov 21, 2012 6:53:07 GMT
He was playing fantastic until we signed Crouch. What had he done wrong as we had got to the FA Cup final and he was part of a Stoke side who were playing excellent football? 3 games into the following season we signed Crouch and all of a sudden to justify it people say he was lazy and shit? Crouch is indeed fantastic but lets cut to the chase here we neither needed him and the football has gone backwards since we signed him as he doesnt fit the Pulis style. Tbf that isn't quite true! oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Potters&action=display&thread=164701A thread from after his first season. Tbf my opinion on Jones was pretty positive then and I've seen nothing to alter it since. If anything our poor performances upfront have confirmed Kenwyne's value to the team.
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Post by Squeekster on Nov 21, 2012 13:50:00 GMT
Is it because he's a bloke and men don't have periods?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2012 13:59:15 GMT
He was playing fantastic until we signed Crouch. What had he done wrong as we had got to the FA Cup final and he was part of a Stoke side who were playing excellent football? 3 games into the following season we signed Crouch and all of a sudden to justify it people say he was lazy and shit? Crouch is indeed fantastic but lets cut to the chase here we neither needed him and the football has gone backwards since we signed him as he doesnt fit the Pulis style. Tbf that isn't quite true! oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Potters&action=display&thread=164701A thread from after his first season. Funniest part of that thread is Stokelad's staunch defence of Jones back when he was a TP favourite. Now he can't wait to stick the boot in, just like he couldn't with Ric.
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Post by superjonnywalters on Nov 21, 2012 14:14:00 GMT
That thread must be fake. Apparently KJ was our best player by a million miles and Crouch was an absolutely pointless signing.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2012 14:35:00 GMT
That thread must be fake. Apparently KJ was our best player by a million miles and Crouch was an absolutely pointless signing. Some fun stuff from the original whydelilah on there as well. Sadly missed.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 21, 2012 14:35:29 GMT
Funniest part of that thread is Stokelad's staunch defence of Jones back when he was a TP favourite. Now he can't wait to stick the boot in, just like he couldn't with Ric. He's special that lad is! And I told You I wasn't making it up that I thought he wasn't all that during the FA Cup run!
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Post by superjonnywalters on Nov 21, 2012 14:37:02 GMT
That thread must be fake. Apparently KJ was our best player by a million miles and Crouch was an absolutely pointless signing. Some fun stuff from the original whydelilah on there as well. Sadly missed. ;D ;D I don't really have a comeback on that one mate!!
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Post by timbo1988 on Nov 21, 2012 14:48:23 GMT
How anyone can say crouch played well on Monday is beyond me. He lost numerous headers in the west ham half to tomkins and Reid who are small centre halves. He didn't have a worthwhile shot on goal and didn't stretch there backline at all. Those who say he played well really are just looking at his name and England caps like pulis did when he signed him without thinking where he will fit in. Our attacking play won't improve until we get pace and strength in the final 3rd.
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