|
Post by rlcstokie on Oct 17, 2012 16:54:32 GMT
I am also from a working class background and come from a family that always staunchly voted Labour (before they sold the working classes down the river) and I never dressed like a chav or acted like a chav and I have always worked for a living, I had 2-3 part time jobs whilst I was at uni, but that wouldn't stop certain people from calling me OR you a chav in today's society, simply because of our working class roots. David Beckham, Jordon, etc are multi millionaires , they don't sit in bus stop shelters drinking White Lightening Cider and abusing OAP's going about their daily business, but even they have been called chavs because of their working class backgrounds and because of their 'bling' in the Tabloids. The point I was making was that if some poor kid from a working class background is called a chav and ridiculed in the national media and made a mockery of for no other reason than his social status, that , TO HIM, is just as offensive as calling a black man the 'N' word. And who is making 'sweeping generalisations' ??? So a ginger kid who is bullied because of the colour of his hair (which he can't help) and gets called a ginger twat, which knocks his confidence and effects his social skills, is in your words 'very sensitive' ? .. So are we safe to assume that you also apply that same logic to Danny Rose's reaction last night and you also accuse him of being 'very sensitive' or is that different 'because he is black' I also notice that you mock the subject of 'ginger bullying' by trying to be comical with your 'copper bollocks' comment, whilst also noticing that you didn't find it appropriate to mock 'black bullying' (racism). I would call you a hypocrite but I don't want to go down the name calling route ;D Its not hypocritical because I think Racism is worse than 'ginger bullying'. I have monkey ears like Peter Reid, I have some banter around it. I don't regard it as being as bad as racism. Racism is worse than 'fatism' 'gingerism' 'bigearism' 'chavism' etc. in my opinion. That's the key phrase there though mate. In YOUR opinion. I have a different one than you and thats fine. I've worked with black lads that take jibes about their colour as 'banter' and I've worked with fat blokes who are really offended when they are called 'fat bastard' People will take what I have said out of context and they will twist what I have said, (this is the internet after all) but I'll stand by what I've said all along. Bullying people based on skin colour = Bad Bullying people based on hair colour = Bad And in my opinion one isn't worse than the other. Its all about the individuals perspective. This is 2012 UK not 1940's American deep south
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2012 17:03:41 GMT
This is 2012 UK not 1940's American deep south Yes, but no fatty bum-bum, copper bollocks, jug eared chav has had to stand in front of a congregation in Washington giving one of the most historical speeches in the world about basic human rights and equality (winky thing)
|
|
|
Post by rlcstokie on Oct 17, 2012 17:16:10 GMT
This is 2012 UK not 1940's American deep south Yes, but no fatty bum-bum, copper bollocks, jug eared chav has had to stand in front of a congregation in Washington giving one of the most historical speeches in the world about basic human rights and equality (winky thing) That argument has already been thrown at me mate, so I'll tell you like I told them : And neither has any black man or woman alive in Britain today that is under a certain age. Some people would find your above comments (fatty bum-bum, copper bollocks, jug eared chav) to be insulting and upsetting ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/7TTgAtwUz19SBi0cvrCX.gif) Plenty of working class kids are still being ridiculed as chavs (even though they aren't 'chavs') in the national media today though. (which some find offensive , upsetting and a knock to their self esteem) As I said. This is 2012 UK, not 1940's Mississippi (winky thing)
|
|
|
Post by stokelad on Oct 17, 2012 21:25:01 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2012 22:47:01 GMT
Yes, but no fatty bum-bum, copper bollocks, jug eared chav has had to stand in front of a congregation in Washington giving one of the most historical speeches in the world about basic human rights and equality (winky thing) That argument has already been thrown at me mate, so I'll tell you like I told them : And neither has any black man or woman alive in Britain today that is under a certain age. Some people would find your above comments (fatty bum-bum, copper bollocks, jug eared chav) to be insulting and upsetting ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/7TTgAtwUz19SBi0cvrCX.gif) Plenty of working class kids are still being ridiculed as chavs (even though they aren't 'chavs') in the national media today though. (which some find offensive , upsetting and a knock to their self esteem) As I said. This is 2012 UK, not 1940's Mississippi (winky thing) I don't see how this mitigates racist chanting and behaviour. Simply because something else is wrong, it doesn't make racism any more acceptable. Those who do it, do it to offend. Those on the receiving end are offended. Anyone who witnesses it is appalled. There is no analogy you can make that changes that or makes it somehow less offensive. Just because slavery is now outlawed, it does not mean that the underlying principle that someone is less than human is not adequately expressed through racist chanting, monkey noises and so on. It says to black players that they are not people, they are animals. That is the connection with slavery. Slaves were owned like animals, used like horses to do farm work and if you killed a slave, the punishment back then was no greater than if you ran a cat over on your way home today. If you make fun of someone for being bald, fat, red haired or anything else, that is cruel. But racism is on a whole if different level, it is criminal and rightly so.
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Oct 17, 2012 23:21:32 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Okie Stokie. on Oct 17, 2012 23:35:15 GMT
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Oct 18, 2012 0:07:22 GMT
Off Twitter....
If the FA want UEFA to properly punish Serbia for racist chants, they should tell them they were chanting the name of a rival sponsor.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by eddyclamp on Oct 18, 2012 9:18:34 GMT
According to Talk Sport EUFA have decided to charge Serbia and England over the under 21 game problems. Is anyone in the FA big enough to tell Platini and Blatter to do one. It`s about time someone took a stand against these idiot`s, I am sure the major football nations would follow our lead.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2012 9:22:55 GMT
what are they charging the teams with exactly?
EDIT: just seen
Serbia charged with racist chanting Both teams charged because fo the conduct of their players
Always going to happen though. whilst i applaud Rose for his restraint (personally i'd have followed the ball into the crowd and gone after some of the fans) FIFA will say that that isn't the professional way to deal with things...and technically they're right. other players don't deal with racist chanting by having a 22 man brawl (like i say, i'm not saying for a second i agree with FIFA's stance but can see what they mean)
that charge (faced by both teams) will be dealt with quite quietly and quickly IMO and it's the racist chanting charge people will be watching more closely
|
|
|
Post by u2oxeterstokie on Oct 18, 2012 9:23:51 GMT
The Serbian FA has been charged with alleged racist chanting by fans and both associations over the behaviour of players at the end of the game.
|
|
|
Post by stokeramblers on Oct 18, 2012 9:29:45 GMT
What horseshit. The only England player that seemed to lose their rag (understandably so) was Rose and he was dealt with at the time with the sending off. Credit should be given to Jordan Henderson and Jack Butland who from what I saw did a fantastic job in marshalling the rest of the lads towards the tunnel and off the pitch. UEFA are a fucking disgrace and the Serbian FA even more so.
|
|
|
Post by boskampsflaps on Oct 18, 2012 9:36:51 GMT
What horseshit. The only England player that seemed to lose their rag (understandably so) was Rose and he was dealt with at the time with the sending off. Credit should be given to Jordan Henderson and Jack Butland who from what I saw did a fantastic job in marshalling the rest of the lads towards the tunnel and off the pitch. UEFA are a fucking disgrace and the Serbian FA even more so. Its what happened in the tunnel that's the problem (with regards to Englands charges), for once I think UEFA have got this one right.
|
|
|
Post by foster on Oct 18, 2012 9:45:55 GMT
I don't see what UEFA have done wrong.
The punishment dished out will determine where they stand. Until that time they're only following the guidelines.
|
|
|
Post by stokeramblers on Oct 18, 2012 9:50:22 GMT
What horseshit. The only England player that seemed to lose their rag (understandably so) was Rose and he was dealt with at the time with the sending off. Credit should be given to Jordan Henderson and Jack Butland who from what I saw did a fantastic job in marshalling the rest of the lads towards the tunnel and off the pitch. UEFA are a fucking disgrace and the Serbian FA even more so. Its what happened in the tunnel that's the problem (with regards to Englands charges), for once I think UEFA have got this one right. Fair enough, from the bits I've read the Police had to surround the England dressing room to protect the players and coaches but I suppose there could've been some misbehaviour on the part of our players in there out of sight of the cameras. I still have very little faith that UEFA will deal with this adequately. Looking at their track record it's delusional to think otherwise
|
|
|
Post by PotterEd on Oct 18, 2012 9:50:54 GMT
Yeah it's fairly standard practice for both teams to be charged - they have to do that regardless of who instigated it. The fact was that both teams went a bit bonkers and hopefully the investigation will prove that England's players and staff were justified in their reaction.
Justice would see Serbia banned for the next two tournaments, in my opinion. However, we're talking about an institution that fined Porto 50% less for racist chanting in a game against Man City than they fined Man City for coming out ONE MINUTE late after half time in the same game. Staggering.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2012 10:12:41 GMT
Its what happened in the tunnel that's the problem (with regards to Englands charges), for once I think UEFA have got this one right. Fair enough, from the bits I've read the Police had to surround the England dressing room to protect the players and coaches but I suppose there could've been some misbehaviour on the part of our players in there out of sight of the cameras. I still have very little faith that UEFA will deal with this adequately. Looking at their track record it's delusional to think otherwise of course they'll deal with it adequately..they'll find the Serbian FA guilty of their fans racially abusing England players and fine them £25.50 and insist they keep their racism to merely throwing bananas next time. gotta love FIFA and UEFA!!!
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Oct 18, 2012 12:05:18 GMT
Blatter 'saddened everytime he hears rascist incidents in football' funnily enough you're the man who can do something about it
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2012 12:09:45 GMT
Blatter 'saddened everytime he hears rascist incidents in football' funnily enough you're the man who can do something about it he's saddened because he wasn't there to join in Joe....he's a horrible horrible little man! it's at times like these that it's always good to bring out this old classic.......
|
|
|
Post by rlcstokie on Oct 19, 2012 12:09:30 GMT
That argument has already been thrown at me mate, so I'll tell you like I told them : And neither has any black man or woman alive in Britain today that is under a certain age. Some people would find your above comments (fatty bum-bum, copper bollocks, jug eared chav) to be insulting and upsetting ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/7TTgAtwUz19SBi0cvrCX.gif) Plenty of working class kids are still being ridiculed as chavs (even though they aren't 'chavs') in the national media today though. (which some find offensive , upsetting and a knock to their self esteem) As I said. This is 2012 UK, not 1940's Mississippi (winky thing) I don't see how this mitigates racist chanting and behaviour. Simply because something else is wrong, it doesn't make racism any more acceptable. Those who do it, do it to offend. Those on the receiving end are offended. Anyone who witnesses it is appalled. There is no analogy you can make that changes that or makes it somehow less offensive. Just because slavery is now outlawed, it does not mean that the underlying principle that someone is less than human is not adequately expressed through racist chanting, monkey noises and so on. It says to black players that they are not people, they are animals. That is the connection with slavery. Slaves were owned like animals, used like horses to do farm work and if you killed a slave, the punishment back then was no greater than if you ran a cat over on your way home today. If you make fun of someone for being bald, fat, red haired or anything else, that is cruel. But racism is on a whole if different level, it is criminal and rightly so. Another one thats totally missed the entire point of every post I have made on this thread ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/cj7bsBj2jOTuEAUVaPt5.gif) Show me where I have stated that racist chanting or racism of any kind is acceptable and I will eat my words. My point, was that in my opinion, no insults are worse or better than others. If some one is offended then thats good enough for them. They don't need anyones approval or permission to be offended, whether thats a black man who is offended by a remark about his skin colour, or a ginger who is offended by a remark about his hair colour. Its all about personal perspective.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2012 12:35:42 GMT
I don't see how this mitigates racist chanting and behaviour. Simply because something else is wrong, it doesn't make racism any more acceptable. Those who do it, do it to offend. Those on the receiving end are offended. Anyone who witnesses it is appalled. There is no analogy you can make that changes that or makes it somehow less offensive. Just because slavery is now outlawed, it does not mean that the underlying principle that someone is less than human is not adequately expressed through racist chanting, monkey noises and so on. It says to black players that they are not people, they are animals. That is the connection with slavery. Slaves were owned like animals, used like horses to do farm work and if you killed a slave, the punishment back then was no greater than if you ran a cat over on your way home today. If you make fun of someone for being bald, fat, red haired or anything else, that is cruel. But racism is on a whole if different level, it is criminal and rightly so. Another one thats totally missed the entire point of every post I have made on this thread ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/cj7bsBj2jOTuEAUVaPt5.gif) Show me where I have stated that racist chanting or racism of any kind is acceptable and I will eat my words. My point, was that in my opinion, no insults are worse or better than others. If some one is offended then thats good enough for them. They don't need anyones approval or permission to be offended, whether thats a black man who is offended by a remark about his skin colour, or a ginger who is offended by a remark about his hair colour. Its all about personal perspective. I don't think you can so easily divorce history and context from racism. racist language is rooted in all of the deeply unpleasant historical connotations - it isn't, if you pardon the pun, skin deep, regardless of how aware of it the fuckwit making the remark is.
|
|
|
Post by rlcstokie on Oct 19, 2012 13:00:32 GMT
Another one thats totally missed the entire point of every post I have made on this thread ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/cj7bsBj2jOTuEAUVaPt5.gif) Show me where I have stated that racist chanting or racism of any kind is acceptable and I will eat my words. My point, was that in my opinion, no insults are worse or better than others. If some one is offended then thats good enough for them. They don't need anyones approval or permission to be offended, whether thats a black man who is offended by a remark about his skin colour, or a ginger who is offended by a remark about his hair colour. Its all about personal perspective. I don't think you can so easily divorce history and context from racism. racist language is rooted in all of the deeply unpleasant historical connotations - it isn't, if you pardon the pun, skin deep, regardless of how aware of it the fuckwit making the remark is. Mate. How on fuckin earth can yo..............Oh fuck it I can't be arsed
|
|
JudgeMental
Youth Player
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Your Iso-Cube is waiting.
Posts: 347
Location: MegastokeCity 1
|
Post by JudgeMental on Oct 19, 2012 13:29:47 GMT
Asmir Begovic @asmir1 " jrstokie: @asmir1 just wondering what you make of the behaviour of your countrymen last night Asmir? #disgraceful" whose countrymen??? Some of our fans are embarrassing That really is cringe-ingly ignorant. Bego is Bosnian. I may be confused by the whole Balkan War/Ethnic-cleansing* thing, but I think I'm right in saying that the Bosnians (and especially Moslem ones like Bego's family) didn't exactly get an easy ride from Serbia either? ![>:(](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/MK1XRTh9jLIKdOoyx512.gif) * It really was right mess if you read up on it.
|
|