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Post by skemstokie on Dec 23, 2018 15:57:10 GMT
Maastricht
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 23, 2018 10:11:32 GMT
Algeciras
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 22, 2018 17:58:07 GMT
Grande-Grave
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 22, 2018 8:41:31 GMT
Demonovska Dolina
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 20, 2018 21:35:56 GMT
Stavengar
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 20, 2018 21:04:43 GMT
Newhaven
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 20, 2018 18:14:16 GMT
Wetwang
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 20, 2018 17:25:22 GMT
Orzysz
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 20, 2018 16:37:50 GMT
Poperinge (Belgium)
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 20, 2018 15:46:31 GMT
A democratic vote based on untruths then,which ever way you cut it what the leave camp promised is not what is available in reality and as such in my opinion should go back to the people. Untruths on both sides. I agree untruths on both sides which are both now known to all sides .
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 20, 2018 13:59:01 GMT
No a vote based on the democratic choice of the British people Democratic a lovely word totally lost on the majority of remain voters A democratic vote based on untruths then,which ever way you cut it what the leave camp promised is not what is available in reality and as such in my opinion should go back to the people.
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 20, 2018 11:44:36 GMT
Just stinks of smoke and mirrors to delay things to their ideal conclusion of May's deal... Irrespective of feelings or what rightly should/shouldn't happen I still feel the only outcome in this is that we see either May's deal passing or another referendum (with or without an election) as the house seems fairly unanimous in rejecting a no deal scenario. Hand on heart as a Brexiteer if those were the only options which would you take? Now I know in one respect we shouldn't be entertaining 'remain' on the ballot paper but lets assume that is an option to break the stalemate? I’ll take a second referendum as long as the question is leave with may’s deal or leave with no deal There is no need for remain on the ballot paper as we have all ready voted to leave A vote based on Lies.
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 20, 2018 10:15:34 GMT
Groningen
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 19, 2018 20:39:06 GMT
My personal opinion is in years to come some of the leave voters may come to the conclusion they voted leave the EU when what was needed was a change in U.K. politics,first past the post makes it very hard for a new centrist party to evolve and the centre ground is the route for united country no Universal Credit shit from the right,no Loony left policies as neither of the main party would command a overall majority. Skem, I believe there is a great amount of validity in your post, many people voted Leave just to stick two fingers up to a political system that ignored them for generations. To a degree the way Parliament has behaved since the referendum only underlines what these people thought. The issue now is just as much about Remain or Leave as it is about democracy being fulfilled, there will be no winners in this process. As i have said before at my age it will not greatly affect me,it is the younger generation (many of whom who were either were too young or could not be arsed to vote) that i feel for it is not the legacy i want for my grand-kids
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 19, 2018 19:56:17 GMT
So you voted leave because you thought that leave would mean a hard Brexit (as stated by Cameron) but on the other hand you call any stories of hardship caused by a hard Brexit that Cameron and his remain campaign warned of as a part of project fear campaign,seems to be contradictory to me? I voted Leave because at the time of the vote Leave meant Leave ( as I previously explained ). Hard Brexit, Soft Brexit, deal, No deal didn’t exist at the time. The only contradiction is by those people who said the result of the referendum would be implemented. As we have all seen in the last 30 months there is actually no will to Leave by the powers that be. Westminster really has no connection with a great proportion of the electorate. The fact that over 400 constituencies have returned the same party at every General Election since the war ( irrespective of boundary changes ) means our MPs have become complacent, to the extent that they think they know best and can ignore what was the largest turnout for a vote in generations. My personal opinion is in years to come some of the leave voters may come to the conclusion they voted leave the EU when what was needed was a change in U.K. politics,first past the post makes it very hard for a new centrist party to evolve and the centre ground is the route for united country no Universal Credit shit from the right,no Loony left policies as neither of the main party would command a overall majority.
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 19, 2018 19:34:48 GMT
Amsterdam
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 19, 2018 18:23:32 GMT
Oostkapelle
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 19, 2018 15:43:30 GMT
I worked in logistics and found a very similar scenario,the immigrant workers outshone the locals in most aspects,always willing to do extra hours,always striving to move up the ladder and better themselves. I found the opposite in care. Some immigrant workers were negligent and would have been sacked if the companies that employed them were fit for purpose. Most,not all but i would say 80+% did not consider it a job,most were keen to forge a career and the vast majority of long serving staff were EU nationals. I retired over 3 years ago but visited a staff shop on Monday this week the only staff members i spoke to were migrants with only ONE exception ?
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 19, 2018 15:23:33 GMT
Get out of your little bubble & go speak to some people, infact, you haven't even got to leave the house, just ask someone like TrickyDicky on here about it. So just after the result of the Brexit ref I had a meeting with the head of HR for who I believe is the largest chicken producer in the country and certainly one of the largest food companies. Many may be familiar as it isn't a company that is located too far away from here. We were talking about their feelings of the result of Brexit and I was told of their fears because the churn rate is so high there for staff. If memory serves me right about 70% of their employees were these low skilled EU migrants (mostly of Eastern European origin). I asked what they felt that was down to before I was told of how they produce chicken and stock virtually every supermarket in the country. One example was that there wasn't machines to take the bones out of the chicken, it's done by hand. Lots of staff stabbing themselves accidentally etc. Not particularly loveable work that is likely to give an enormous sense of satisfaction but I guess there's worse jobs... The wages aren't phenomenal either. Her words precisely "because the Brits just don't want to do it, they come and go because they don't like the work". Word for word. Am I saying that is consistent across all sectors? No, not at all as I don't know. But people are blind or ignorant to think that it doesn't exist, and I wouldn't be surprised if it did exist in all of those... I worked in logistics and found a very similar scenario,the immigrant workers outshone the locals in most aspects,always willing to do extra hours,always striving to move up the ladder and better themselves.
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 19, 2018 12:18:28 GMT
How come the leave campaign which you supported stated that we would have the quickest trade deal in history Norway or Canada with bells on yet you and 17.4 all knew this was not going to happen ? I believed the incumbent Prime Minister at the time who told us all on numerous ocassions “ Leave means Leave “ , the fact that he withdrew from office meant that he couldn’t implement this ( This act itself being the first step on the road to a Remainer running the show ). Any statements made by Leave campaigners prior to the vote have been unable to be actioned because none of them have been given the sole authority to act on their statements, the current PM, parliament and the EU won’t allow us to leave and have undermined any Leave campaigner or negotiator in every way possible. So you voted leave because you thought that leave would mean a hard Brexit (as stated by Cameron) but on the other hand you call any stories of hardship caused by a hard Brexit that Cameron and his remain campaign warned of as a part of project fear campaign,seems to be contradictory to me?
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 19, 2018 9:00:00 GMT
No deal is Leave. So is Norway style. So is Canada style. So is the thousands of other arrangements that could be sorted out between now and when we leave the EU. You speak for 17.4m people say "we all knew" - that's quite the claim. I don’t speak for 17.4 million people, I speak for every household that received David Cameron’s leaflet which told us leave means leave, in his TV statements he specifically emphasised the point. So at the time of the referendum we all knew what leave meant. The fact that in the intervening 30 months, the establishment, the media and various other outlets have introduced different versions of what they believe Leave meant has clouded the issue. I agree that there are now so many variants of Leave that don’t resemble what Leave meant on the day of the vote that some folk can say “ You didn’t know what you voted for “ but on that day in June 2016 we all did. How come the leave campaign which you supported stated that we would have the quickest trade deal in history Norway or Canada with bells on yet you and 17.4 all knew this was not going to happen ?
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 18, 2018 21:38:48 GMT
Orbetello
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 18, 2018 20:41:14 GMT
Rottingdean
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 18, 2018 20:09:30 GMT
Easterhouse
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 18, 2018 17:55:12 GMT
Aberystwyth
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 18, 2018 14:31:51 GMT
They should indeed represent the Brexit voters. Unfortunately what type of Brexit was never specified in the Brexit campaign. So Brexit is open to interpretation. The prime minister at the time made it pretty clear what kind of Brexit it was going to be He even spent millions on leaflets telling us all didn't he? So did Bonkers Boris and his sidekicks a comprehensive deal with the EU with fast tariff free trade. a upgrade on the Norway or Canada deal with all singing all dancing technology solving the Irish border issue ? So you voted with Boris and expected Camerons deal ?
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 18, 2018 13:23:11 GMT
Albrighton
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 18, 2018 13:21:20 GMT
So a question where both answers are the same result as was voted for in 2016 referendum is a "part of the attempt to undermine the decision because you can't accept it"? Your position undermines basic logic and reason, nevermind democracy. I don't know what you are talking about Rip, sorry. You're a bit too clever for me. I can only deal in simple concepts as you probably already know. In or out. Remain or Leave. making Deals are different from making a decision in a referendum What leave campaign stated was a CLOSE relationship with the EU Norway or Canada style deals but with extra benifits with friction-less trade and no delays at the border that i could live with but your views are lunacy i can see why you can only deal with simple concepts.
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 18, 2018 11:59:25 GMT
Mobberley
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 18, 2018 9:43:29 GMT
Two years & 482 pages in & we still have people who can't understand the difference between what the people voted for (Brexit) and what our cowardly, snidey government are trying to deliver (Remain). I think that many do understand it DC , but for some reason prefer to let others make decisions on behalf of the country ie themselves. Therefore they would prefer to undermine the decision. Others can't believe and are unable to accept that they did not win, therefore any way of getting their own way is ok. I think you will find most people who voted out voted for what was promised by the leave team,a close relationship with the EU with friction-less trade something similar to Norway or Canada deal plus plus was the promise so where you get the notion that people voted for a complete break is pie in the sky.
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