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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 21, 2024 15:46:51 GMT
He isn’t a toff. He is middle class. He may keep some. He may have decided other things take priority. We will have to wait for his manifesto. A knighted barrister who just had £200k of spare land to sell. Doesn’t sound like your average middle class person to me. The HMRC puts him in the top 1% of earners in the UK and Equity Trust estimates him to be worth £5 million. Man of the people. He attended a selective state school. His mother was a nurse and his father a toolmaker and both Labour party members. He was a man of the people, and he did very well at school and went to Leeds university and then Oxford for a postgrad and he became a barrister and did extremely well, ending up as Head of the CPS. Class isn’t about how much money you earn and how successful you are. Or are you saying nobody who is working class can be successful and be paid a lot? What about most footballers? Are they upper class? Wayne Rooney? Lord Alan Sugar? Are they upper class? Remember, so called man of the people, Nigel Farage was privately educated at one of the most exclusive private schools in the country, and Jeremy Corbyn was also privately educated. Starmer is from far more meagre origins than both.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 21, 2024 15:21:52 GMT
Was it not Yvette Cooper who introduced fit to work tests which have resulted in many disabled people being refused benefits? Let's talk about some of the things Labour did under Blair (no i havent quoted every tweet from this thread. Less tban 20% are below):
I think there's a bit of recent bias being applied when it comes to Tony Blairs reign. Wasn't so long ago that Blair wanted to withdraw from parts of the EHCR - www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-labour-asylum-echr-b2470463.htmlLet's not forget when Starmer listed 3 ex pms he wanted to emulate, 2 of those were Blair and Thatcher. Blair generally did a lot of good. NHS Continuing Care for example. Disabled people had it better under Blair than now.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 21, 2024 13:05:12 GMT
He didn’t overthrow him though did he. Corbyn was rejected and Starmer elected leader. He has since turned around the polls from potentially 2 or 3 more tory governments to almost certainly a Labour government in one of the most amazing turnarounds in history. In order to do that, he had to sell out Corbyn. He cannot commit to pledges made 5 years ago when the world and the UK has changed massively since then. Your understanding of history is totally different to mine. If you expect anything to change for the better under Starmer then I think you're going to be very disappointed. I'll leave it there. You really think labour are going to have cuts for the disabled in their manifesto? Labour and Tory are different. Just not as different if Corbyn led the Labour Party. www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/21/help-disabled-people-england-wales-jobs-axed-benefits-crackdown
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 21, 2024 12:54:45 GMT
He didn’t overthrow him though did he. Corbyn was rejected and Starmer elected leader. He has since turned around the polls from potentially 2 or 3 more tory governments to almost certainly a Labour government in one of the most amazing turnarounds in history. In order to do that, he had to sell out Corbyn. He cannot commit to pledges made 5 years ago when the world and the UK has changed massively since then. Your understanding of history is totally different to mine. If you expect anything to change for the better under Starmer then I think you're going to be very disappointed. I'll leave it there. I don’t think even you really think that. There are many examples, but the tories would not have changed the rules on non-doms if not for Starmer and Starmer isn’t even in power yet. VAT on private school fees, Great British Energy a state owned green energy company. So I am expecting most things to change for the better, but that isn’t asking for much compared to what is going on now. My understanding is Corbyn lost two elections and labour changed leader and elected Starmer. He didn’t overthrow Corbyn as you have suggested. Brexit, Covid, war - they all impact policy whether you like it or not. Starmer would be idiotic to just pretend it is 2019/2020 when he made his pledges and to ignore reality.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 21, 2024 12:50:32 GMT
He didn’t overthrow him though did he. Corbyn was rejected and Starmer elected leader. He has since turned around the polls from potentially 2 or 3 more tory governments to almost certainly a Labour government in one of the most amazing turnarounds in history. In order to do that, he had to sell out Corbyn. He cannot commit to pledges made 5 years ago when the world and the UK has changed massively since then. It’s not like he’s decided to now lead a party in a different country though. You think he’d be able to keep some of them 😂. He’s going to be awful for the country - just another toff. He isn’t a toff. He is middle class. He may keep some. He may have decided other things take priority. We will have to wait for his manifesto.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 21, 2024 10:04:32 GMT
So you think the impacts of Brexit, Covid, Ukraine/Russia and more recently Israel/Palestine on our country should have no impact on policy? Also Starmer backed Corbyn. He turned on him when he realised that the only way to have a Labour government in a FPTP system was to sell out Corbyn. He was plotting to overthrow Corbyn in 2016 mate. He didn’t overthrow him though did he. Corbyn was rejected and Starmer elected leader. He has since turned around the polls from potentially 2 or 3 more tory governments to almost certainly a Labour government in one of the most amazing turnarounds in history. In order to do that, he had to sell out Corbyn. He cannot commit to pledges made 5 years ago when the world and the UK has changed massively since then.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 21, 2024 8:18:15 GMT
The world, and particularly the UK, has significantly changed since Starmer was made leader. His pledges made 5 years ago are not all relevant or affordable now. I completely agree. But when you think of the state of our public services I'd expect a change towards bringing them back under public ownership rather than a change away from that. I know I'm very critical of starmer but he's very much the prime minister in waiting at the present so he's more relevant than sunak in my opinion. I agree with you about nationalising monopolised essential services. I want to see what Starmer says in his manifesto about this. I also think it is more complex than we all assume it is. You can’t just do it. Else the whole thing gets stuck in the courts for years and there will be legal challenges etc. the cost of that falling on tax payers. If Starmer makes a pledge, the Tories then say “where are you getting the £X billions to buy out the private companies?” and it feeds into an easy attack line. Politics has to be played, particularly in FPTP.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 21, 2024 8:14:56 GMT
The world, and particularly the UK, has significantly changed since Starmer was made leader. His pledges made 5 years ago are not all relevant or affordable now. Sorry I cannot accept that. In 2017 and 2019 we had a chance to transform this country for good and for the benefit of all. Sadly the establishment stepped in and ordinary people fell for the bullshit they were fed along with assasination from so called "socialists" I will never forgive or forget. So you think the impacts of Brexit, Covid, Ukraine/Russia and more recently Israel/Palestine on our country should have no impact on policy? Also Starmer backed Corbyn. He turned on him when he realised that the only way to have a Labour government in a FPTP system was to sell out Corbyn.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 20, 2024 21:10:30 GMT
So you believe what you dislike but disbelieve what you might like OK Let's wait for the Manifesto but more importantly how or if they implement it I don't know what to believe when it comes to what they say in public as Starmer has already shown he's willing to abandon the pledges he was elected leader of the party for. So I'm hardly confident that they're going to stick to whichever manifesto they draw up given how the last leadership manifesto has developed. What I will judge them on is their actions and from grassroots through to NEC they've made a significant shift to the right in the party. I'll be surprised if this isn't replicated in their leadership of the country. If I was in England and if I considered myself left wing then I'd be voting for a left wing party. I wouldn't care if that meant my vote is "wasted" because the main reason people won't vote outside of tory/labour is due to "wasted vote" mindset. Green went from 2% to 9% to 20% to elected in Bristol. So if my vote helped people in the next election consider voting outside of the big two then it would be worth it for me. The world, and particularly the UK, has significantly changed since Starmer was made leader. His pledges made 5 years ago are not all relevant or affordable now.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 19, 2024 22:36:45 GMT
I’m pretty sure I’ve just stumbled across yet another “comedy” show on channel 4 which knocks The Last Leg into a cocked hat. You should be on Gogglebox
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 19, 2024 22:35:08 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 19, 2024 11:44:35 GMT
I know the issue of Thames Water going bust has been mentioned on the Government thread several times but I thought it might be worthwhile giving it it's own thread, as it seems likely, that's it's going to become a pretty major story over the next few weeks. When Thatcher sold off the water companies in 1989 they were sold completely debt free, with the promise that the tax payer would never have to pay for infrastructure costs ever again, as the free market would take on that burden. Yet we've now reached a point where there has been little to no investment in the crumbling infrastructure, our rivers are full of shit and despite numerous reservoirs having been sold off to private property developers, not a single new reservoir has been built and all the while massive dividends have been paid to shareholders, actually larger in number than the profits made, leading to a company that is now about to collapse with nearly £16 billion in debts.
So why should the tax payer have to pick up the majority of the debt under the Government's new proposal? Is it nothing more than privatised profit and nationalised debt, where yet again, the little man has to paid for the big man's greed?
It boils my blood. People say we need to cut benefits or reduce handouts. What about handouts to shareholders. How do we have a system which makes it legal to pay out dividends when there is debt? Those dividends being taxed at a lower rate than PAYE income tax rates (although most shareholders seem to be foreign governments or non-doms so probably pay little if no tax here). Why is it that our government is content to reduce handouts to disabled people, but they are happy to let the superrich off billions of debt they have caused? And even if they make the shareholders cover the debt, we are still going to have to fund the new infrastructure. Thatcher’s legacy really is obliterated by this. She was absolute failure of a PM, only worsened by the succession of Tory PMs since Brexit in my opinion. Voters should NEVER let the tories in again.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 19, 2024 7:09:11 GMT
Thank you for this heads up oggy, but if you get past the anti-Brexit Guardian headline and read the actual words of the report: “A clear picture emerged of underlying fragilities at a global and UK level, not fundamentally rooted in Brexit but exacerbated by it in some specific ways, especially through some companies removing the UK from their supply chains"
So why now after 3 years into Brexit is there a problem? Because there is a massive problem in the EU with drugs shortages and they are keeping them for themselves. I quote from various articles: "A fragile supply chain and increased demand are causing a shortfall in the EU’s stock of critical medicines." www.theparliamentmagazine.eu/news/article/bitter-pills-medicine-shortages-in-europe#:~:text=In%20its%202023%20survey%2C%20the,began%20polling%20members%20in%202013 "According to the official national database at PharmNet.Bund, which monitors medicine supply in Germany, over 400 drugs are listed as not available at all in the country. " www.euronews.com/health/2023/06/21/a-medicine-shortage-is-behind-the-looming-death-of-community-pharmacies-in-germany#:~:text=Bund%2C%20which%20monitors%20medicine%20supply,ways%20to%20serve%20their%20patients There are reports in France that shortages of common older medicines are increasing. Experts say it’s in part because pharmaceutical companies are de-incentivised from producing them. www.euronews.com/health/2023/10/10/trying-to-find-solutions-worsening-drugs-shortage-is-leaving-pharmacists-and-patients-in-t#:~:text=Earlier%20this%20year%2C%20French%20President,better%20positioned%20than%20last%20year%E2%80%9D It appears the problems in Europe have been going on for some time: think.ing.com/articles/why-there-is-no-end-in-sight-for-the-eu-drug-shortage-crab-carolina-lal-pharma/"EU initiated an attempt to tackle the medicine shortfall that the union has been experiencing for over two decades now. Europe has witnessed a 20-fold rise in reported drug shortfalls from 2000 to 2018" www.eos-intelligence.com/perspectives/life-sciences/medicine-shortage-in-the-eu-a-deep-dive-into-its-causes-and-cures/It appears other governments are reacting to the supply shortages quicker than the UK government: www.rfi.fr/en/france/20240222-drugs-shortage-sees-france-restart-local-production-and-target-antibiotics-useThe problems in health services in Europe extend beyond drug supply: www.statista.com/topics/10625/public-hospital-crisis-in-france/#editorsPickswww.stem.it/en/community/the-german-health-emergency/So the root cause of the UK's problem is drug shortages in the EU. Leaving the EU has probably aggravated the problem but has not created it, as it has been building for many years. Whose to say it would have been any different had the UK remained in the EU? Just like the shortage of tomatoes last year? However in this case, judging by the above articles the problems in the EU are far more deep rooted than bad weather causing temporary food shortage. During EU membership the UK slipped into a massive trade deficit with the EU instead of investing in our own industry. This problem is not a Brexit problem but a consequence of being a member of the EU and allowing globalisation of markets and reduced national self sufficiency. The solution is for the UK to be more self-sufficient and spread dependency across the world and less on the EU. Absolutely. And our devalued currency and trade barriers make it much worse for us, and both of those are a direct result of Brexit. I agree the headline is over the top. But Brexit has made the drug shortage worse for the UK. That is an absolute fact.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 18, 2024 16:29:23 GMT
I had an ironic chuckle at one comment. I know of at least one person who will dispute/misinterpret it. The fact that the fall in sterling’s value after the Brexit vote in 2016 coincided with drugs being in much shorter supply globally due to pharmaceutical firms experiencing shortages of ingredients, which drove up prices, has also played a key role in creating the shortages.
That has forced the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) to agree to pay above the usual price for drugs that are scarce to try to ensure continuity of supply far more often than it used to. “Price concessions” rose tenfold from about 20 a month before 2016 to 199 a month in late 2022, and cost the NHS in England £220m in 2022-23, the thinktank found.
I can’t think who you mean!
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 18, 2024 15:45:46 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 18, 2024 6:03:30 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 17, 2024 20:52:11 GMT
Orban, the Putin sympathiser who has tried his best to destroy the rule of law in Hungary Farage who has lied, lied and lied again to fool people to vote to leave the EU. His lies now exposed, this unelectable man just fills his pockets with speaking events intentionally being controversial to turn people against one another. Suella Braverman described pro-Palestinian protesters as "hate marchers", said living in a tent as a homeless person is a lifestyle choice, she broke the ministerial code on multiple occasions. Do you want me to go on? And you supported Corbyn, Starmer and his rabid left dogs ? No, I didn’t vote for Corbyn and Starmer is closer to Tory than he is to Corbyn in terms of politics. Hardly a rabid left dog. Also, I won’t be voting for Starmer/Labour. So I am not supporting either of them.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 17, 2024 19:21:22 GMT
No, because it made a completely irrelevant event full of some of the most hideous people in politics relevant for five minutes. Who are these hideous people. Why in your opinion are they hideous. Simply because they have a different point of view. Orban, the Putin sympathiser who has tried his best to destroy the rule of law in Hungary Farage who has lied, lied and lied again to fool people to vote to leave the EU. His lies now exposed, this unelectable man just fills his pockets with speaking events intentionally being controversial to turn people against one another. Suella Braverman described pro-Palestinian protesters as "hate marchers", said living in a tent as a homeless person is a lifestyle choice, she broke the ministerial code on multiple occasions. Do you want me to go on?
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 17, 2024 13:00:01 GMT
It is Farage’s dream come true. He becomes relevant in the media for a day or two, not because of his politics or messaging or a speech he has made, but because he got cancelled. Do you agree with him getting cancelled then? No, because it made a completely irrelevant event full of some of the most hideous people in politics relevant for five minutes.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 17, 2024 7:26:48 GMT
It is Farage’s dream come true. He becomes relevant in the media for a day or two, not because of his politics or messaging or a speech he has made, but because he got cancelled.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 16, 2024 21:10:15 GMT
Foghorn Gleghorn, yes. Farage, no, that’s just you. Big Nige gets you lot in a tizzy every time. It’s a good watch😉 He’s not my type
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 16, 2024 19:43:15 GMT
Unemployment up sickness up this government is a total shambles Shhhhh the lefties are obsessed with big Nige Foghorn Gleghorn, yes. Farage, no, that’s just you.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 16, 2024 17:08:52 GMT
He is a prime example of the elite establishment he claims to hate. Everything he does is with the intention of increasing his bank balance and to get attention. IE -forming a company called REFORM then calling it REFORM UK (political party) to suck money out of the stupid ,Its strait out of the Trump playbook....................... And at the same time he is too afraid of electoral defeat again to actually stand as a candidate for the party he created.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 16, 2024 16:33:56 GMT
As much as I dispose the tight it is nit dennmicratic todo this ban terrorists and those that encourage violence but people need to see these nut jobs for what they are If you are talking about Farage then I agree, people need to see him for what he is not only a charlatan but yesterdays charlatan He is a prime example of the elite establishment he claims to hate. Everything he does is with the intention of increasing his bank balance and to get attention.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 16, 2024 8:10:42 GMT
According to the FT, privatised water firms have paid £78 billion in dividends since 1991, including £2.5 billion in two years since 2021. That £78bn is taxed at a far lower rate than the rate I pay for the majority of my income! The privatised water companies still have £8.2bn in debt www.ft.com/content/c3cdfefb-c912-4699-bb7f-72c5c6515757
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 14, 2024 8:01:05 GMT
I really hope Israel doesn’t retaliate.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 13, 2024 22:19:30 GMT
Mr Coke Obviously I'm not going to quote your ginormous post, I haven't even read all of it I got through the Preamble and then the first thing i read is this The UK went into a technical recession during the second half of 2023 driven by reduced personal spending, due to increased interest rates, and reduced government spending in the last quarter. Nevertheless Gross Domestic Product (GDP) increased slightly to £2.274 trillion.Whether I agree with your reasoning why UK entered a Technical Recession or not is neither here nor there. Subjectively you say GDP increased slightly from December2022 to December 2023, it did in absolute numbers from £2,270 Trillion to £2,274 Trillion i.e by £4Bn or 0.1% You later credit UK Inflation reducing, it did to 4% You however fail to join the dots that in order to remain on par UK GDP would also need to increase by 4% not 0.1% I've said before I consider you an intelligent man so I don't see why you need to Gaslight, for whom is it targeted? I have also said if your happy with Brexit, enjoy your Sovereignty But the reality is that the UK Economy is at best in Stagnation even based on the figures you like to quote. I'm not even going to attempt to persuade you why Brexit has damaged the UK Economy, there are enough reputable Economists that analyse why. Perhaps you could link just one Economist that believes Brexit has been an Economic success for UK I might take you seriously I stated that the UK GDP increased during 2023 by 0.1% and you state "in order to remain on par UK GDP would also need to increase by 4% not 0.1%". Your statement is infelicitous for the following reasons: 1. GDPs declined worldwide in 2023 due high interest rates to reduce inflation. The UK inflation was the highest in the G7 for various reasons, not least lower UK government intervention than other governments. However the OECD average inflation was 5.4% in 2023, much higher than the average GDP growth of 1.6%. Not many developed nations' economies GDP growth matched inflation in 2023; only Italy in the G7. The UK did achieve growth though, unlike many economies that contracted in 2023, including 9 in the EU, of which Germany, the Netherlands, and Ireland are 3 of the UK's 4 top export customers. The UK economy grew despite some of our main EU export customers' economies contracting in 2023. All the other EU countries' economies growth rate reduced in 2023, just like the UK. This emphasises the importance of the UK reducing its high dependence on the EU economy. 2. The above national measures of performance are in the countries' own currency. I pointed out in my long post that although Germany's economy had contracted in 2023, it moved above Japan to third largest in the world despite Japan's economy growing in 2023. This apparent anomaly was because of the fall in the value of the Yen. The fall in the value of the Yen has been quite dramatic. Sterling increased in value by 13% against the Japanese yen from £1.00:¥159 at the end of 2022 to £1.00:¥180 at the end of 2023. That paints a very different picture of Japan's GDP growth of 1.9% in 2023, which could actually be considered a contraction compared with other economies. Whilst on the topic of the value of currency, there was a 6% rise in sterling against the US dollar during 2023 from £1.00:$1.204 at the end of 2022 to £1.00:$1.275 at the end of 2023, and a 9% rise against the Chinese yuan renminbi from £1.00:¥8.31 to £1.00: ¥9.08. Those values put America's 2.5% growth and China's 5.2% growth in 2023 in context against the UK's 0.1% growth. The French and Italian economies GDP grew by 0.9% and 0.7% during 2023, whilst the sterling to Euro exchange rate rose by just over 2% from £1:00:€1.128 to £1.00:€1.154 between 30th December 2022 and 29th December 2023. The UK's inflation was the highest in the G7, but which country's economy actually grew the most? 3. We could enter the world of semantics debating whose economy grew the most or performed the best; the issue is how is the UK performing post Brexit? We were told by those economists opposed to Brexit that the economy would go into recession if we voted to leave the EU. The reality is it has taken a worldwide pandemic in 2020 and world economy contraction in 2023 to cause recessions and the UK is still performing economically better today than several other countries. 4. You high-light UK GDP but ignore Gross National Income. GNI calculates an economy's total income, regardless of whether the income is earned by citizens and residents within the country's borders or outside of them. In the modern world there are many who regard it as a better gauge of a country's economic performance than GDP. This could be particularly true for the UK which has a very high dependence on foreign investments, and those who work abroad. UK GNI increased by 5% to £2.65 billion in 2023 from £2.52 billion in 2022. Manipulation My posts simply state the facts, more often than not supported by references, with a few of my personal comments. I am not unbiased and am simply trying to present the performance (good and bad), but also highlight success, and achievements in post-Brexit UK. I am not satisfied with the economic progress being made on Brexit, but I am happy with progress under the circumstances. In fact I would say Brexit has gone surprisingly well economically so far given we had to endure May, Johnson, pandemic, war, Truss, Sunak, and Red Sea terrorism. Why Brexit? I spelt out my reasons for supporting Brexit on page 1,232; economic success was not a reason per se. Sovereignty is of primary importance to a nation. The laws of the land should be made and enforced by those who are answerable to the people, held accountable, and removed if they screw up. Success was achieved on the day the UK left the EU when sovereignty returned to parliament; economic success will take longer, and can only come from getting the UK's balance of payments back into equilibrium. That is clearly going to take years, establishing new trading relationships and then business taking advantage of the opportunities created. The UK has dug a very deep hole during our EU membership creating a massive trade deficit, and a huge dependence on the EU for food imports and as our prime customer for exports. It will take time to climb out of that hole. I have posted on trade at length in section A5 of my long post above. UK trade held up in 2023 despite the large drop in energy and related prices and UK exports increased significantly year on year driven by services exports. This is especially pleasing as it was recently announced by UN Conference On Trade & Development that the UK moved up to the 4th highest services exporter in the world in 2022 overtaking France, Netherlands, and Japan. www.export.org.uk/insights/trade-news/uk-becomes-world-s-fourth-largest-exporter-as-services-boom/Stagnation You regard 0.1% growth in 2023 as stagnation. I would say relative to many other countries and given the high interest rates it is a respectable achievement. (I refer you to my long post above on the impact of highest interest rates on the economy when the UK was a member of the EU in section A1, reference 5.) The UK has performed better than many other economies, but consider Poland whose growth was 0.2% in 2023. That has been achieved on the back of receiving over €150 billion since joining the EU in 2004. www.statista.com/statistics/1135294/poland-s-contributions-to-and-receipts-from-the-eu-budget/Consequently Poland has enjoyed remarkable economic growth during the last decade of typically 4% pa increase in GDP. tradingeconomics.com/poland/full-year-gdp-growthPoland hardly noticed the pandemic economically, only experiencing a minor reduction in GDP of 2% in 2020, and its economy quickly recovered to strong growth in 2021 and 2022. Nevertheless the action of the European Central Bank to reduce inflation impacted on Poland, such that it's growth in 2023 was only 0.1% higher than the UK's growth. Much of that EU funding Poland received till 2020 was paid for by British tax payers. Would that the UK's contribution to Poland's economy (and the rest of the EU - see appendix 2 in my long post) been directed to the UK economy, particularly post 2008, by either government spending (less austerity) or lower taxes, depending on your political position. You don’t understand inflation.
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London
Apr 13, 2024 10:11:52 GMT
via mobile
Post by oggyoggy on Apr 13, 2024 10:11:52 GMT
When do the riots you want stopping cease to be protests? Or are you of the opinion that nobody should be able to state their opinions in public if they are against the government of the day? The Sarah Everard vigil springs to mind. It is far more nuanced. The last proper riots in this country were sparked by the police killing Mark Duggan well over a decade ago. Since then there have only been comparatively minor disturbances of the peace at some protests. The police have generally handled them ok, although some not as well as others (Sarah Everard vigil). Good Morning Oggy,hope your'e well. Take the other night in London. Eid was being celebrated which is supposed to be a peaceful celebration.And then all of a sudden things were thrown at the police. Why? Why start throwing objects towards the police. Why the disruption? What was the point? It was supposed to be a celebration. As I said its just my opinion of which some people will disagree with and I'm open to this. That other people see things from a different angle and have valid opoints from which I'll learn from. I don’t know why, but it is hardly a riot. Is the answer to ban Eid celebrations from public spaces? Not in my opinion.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 13, 2024 9:03:04 GMT
Gentlemen,we should not be arguing over who is right and who is wrong. We all have different opinions,I have mine and I know some won't agree but that's okay with me. The point is all this rioting must be stopped. People are getting hurt and unfortunately losing their lives. The Government must get a grip to stop all this nonsense. I fear it will end up in civil war as people can only take so much before they snap. And then more people will lose their life or get injured. I feel strongly on the matter but will keep certain views to myself. Have a good day Gents and hopefully 3points for the Potters. When do the riots you want stopping cease to be protests? Or are you of the opinion that nobody should be able to state their opinions in public if they are against the government of the day? The Sarah Everard vigil springs to mind. It is far more nuanced. The last proper riots in this country were sparked by the police killing Mark Duggan well over a decade ago. Since then there have only been comparatively minor disturbances of the peace at some protests. The police have generally handled them ok, although some not as well as others (Sarah Everard vigil).
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 13, 2024 8:35:35 GMT
Today is a day for strong hearts, strong minds and comradeship where you will die for your team mate on the pitch. What could possibly go wrong 😔 Today is a day for Tony Pulis
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