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Post by AlliG on Oct 15, 2009 6:57:37 GMT
And why was Cresswell moved to the right of midfield? Because Tonge didn't (wouldn't) do the job he was asked to do and Cresswell would. (Whether he was up to the job is another question) Perhaps you are the one who needs to watch the game a bit more.  |
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Post by nathan on Oct 15, 2009 7:01:23 GMT
Tonge moved over to the left-side of midfield, thus meaning the 'link man' (Beattie?) covered on the right and Tonge slotted into the link man role. Hardly a disaster, really?
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Post by magicmanfuller on Oct 15, 2009 7:28:14 GMT
Can you give an example of when tonge has influenced a game for us 'better than whitehead'? West Brom Hull Blackpool There's three. Are your defences of Whitehead born out of you painting yourself into the corner when he first signed by declaring him miles better than Delap. Now that's proven patently not to be the case you seem to be seeing things that just aren't there. The three teams you mention - premier league quality or not? As thats what we measure ourselves up against. Tonge is a championship player its as simple as that. I cant help but agree with you that rory has 'patently proven' his suprior ability to whitehead. Hes done so much this season, his performances in midfield have been outstanding, its not as if games have been passing by and i've been forgetting that rory was playing |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2009 8:20:14 GMT
West Brom Hull Blackpool There's three. Are your defences of Whitehead born out of you painting yourself into the corner when he first signed by declaring him miles better than Delap. Now that's proven patently not to be the case you seem to be seeing things that just aren't there. The three teams you mention - premier league quality or not? As thats what we measure ourselves up against. Tonge is a championship player its as simple as that. I cant help but agree with you that rory has 'patently proven' his suprior ability to whitehead. Hes done so much this season, his performances in midfield have been outstanding, its not as if games have been passing by and i've been forgetting that rory was playing You asked for one example. One. I gave you three times as many as you asked for. So let's not move the goalposts eh? It's still three more than Whitehead this season. What has Whitehead done that's made him look better than Delap? Whitehead in most of his games has been nothing short of dreadful. You slate Delap and others yet when Whitehead has a bad game it's "boo hoo, the way we play doesn't suit a midfielder like him". You seem to think he's a ball-playing midfielder when nobody else on earth, from Sunderland fans who rated him onwards, seem to agree with that description of him. He's been wank so far. Delap, who has had his share of mediocre games this season, has still lokked acres better than him. |
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Post by RAF on Oct 15, 2009 8:35:54 GMT
Here endeth the lesson!
H
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Post by magicmanfuller on Oct 15, 2009 9:00:12 GMT
The three teams you mention - premier league quality or not? As thats what we measure ourselves up against. Tonge is a championship player its as simple as that. I cant help but agree with you that rory has 'patently proven' his suprior ability to whitehead. Hes done so much this season, his performances in midfield have been outstanding, its not as if games have been passing by and i've been forgetting that rory was playing You asked for one example. One. I gave you three times as many as you asked for. So let's not move the goalposts eh? It's still three more than Whitehead this season. What has Whitehead done that's made him look better than Delap? Whitehead in most of his games has been nothing short of dreadful. You slate Delap and others yet when Whitehead has a bad game it's "boo hoo, the way we play doesn't suit a midfielder like him". You seem to think he's a ball-playing midfielder when nobody else on earth, from Sunderland fans who rated him onwards, seem to agree with that description of him. He's been wank so far. Delap, who has had his share of mediocre games this season, has still lokked acres better than him. Ok, maybe i should have reworded the question to have you got an example tonge positively influencing a game against a current premier league quality side? Your example of hull, wasn't that a 1-1 draw where fuller scored the equaliser (a pen he won for himself)? Wheres the tonge influence there? From what I have seen of whitehead he looks like a technically decent passer of the ball, whether that makes him a ball playing midfielder in the scholes mould i would have to agree would not be the case. However he is imo a better player in pocession then any other centre mid at the club, and I have gathered this opinion from games iv seen when he was playing for sunderland and the glimpses of ability he has shown for us. I've never slated delap, just think we have got better options then him in centre mid, suppose it depends what style of football your into though. |
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Post by mikeyb99 on Oct 15, 2009 9:23:12 GMT
God help us all if anyone thinks Dean "David Oldfield" Whitehead is better than Delap in any way, shape, or form.
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Post by magicmanfuller on Oct 15, 2009 9:37:02 GMT
God help us all if anyone thinks Dean "David Oldfield" Whitehead is better than Delap in any way, shape, or form. God help us if anyone has a bad word to say about rory 'I cant pass a football' delap |
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Post by Olgrligm on Oct 15, 2009 9:43:25 GMT
I don't think Whitehead is any better than Delap, but I think he's suffered an awful lot from some of the preconceptions when he signed. He's certainly been no worse than Tonge, at least playing with a bit of discipline, and he had a decent game against The Shit and Everton. He's not as good as Delap or Whelan in the middle, but he isn't quite the ultra-mega-super disaster that some more hyperbolic posters are suggesting. I rate him higher than Tonge, but I can't see how either of them are better than what we've got. Collins, however, hasn't suffered from the problem of preconceptions because we didn't know what to make of him. He then proved that he's awful. Tonge moved over to the left-side of midfield, thus meaning the 'link man' (Beattie?) covered on the right and Tonge slotted into the link man role. Hardly a disaster, really? What bizarro world was this magical total football fantasy happening in? We were trying to keep our shape and play in our typical, disciplined fashion while Tonge fucked about chasing the ball around like a three year old with the manager going berserk on the touchline. |
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Post by magicmanfuller on Oct 15, 2009 9:55:29 GMT
I don't think Whitehead is any better than Delap, but I think he's suffered an awful lot from some of the preconceptions when he signed. He's certainly been no worse than Tonge, at least playing with a bit of discipline, and he had a decent game against The Shit and Everton. He's not as good as Delap or Whelan in the middle, but he isn't quite the ultra-mega-super disaster that some more hyperbolic posters are suggesting. I rate him higher than Tonge, but I can't see how either of them are better than what we've got. Collins, however, hasn't suffered from the problem of preconceptions because we didn't know what to make of him. He then proved that he's awful. Tonge moved over to the left-side of midfield, thus meaning the 'link man' (Beattie?) covered on the right and Tonge slotted into the link man role. Hardly a disaster, really? What bizarro world was this magical total football fantasy happening in? We were trying to keep our shape and play in our typical, disciplined fashion while Tonge fucked about chasing the ball around like a three year old with the manager going berserk on the touchline. But you put yourself in the hyperbolic poster category when you make such a point about collins. From what I have seen looks a pretty solid left back and miles better than higgy. He is also another player who is starting out with a new club and playing style and is being employed out of position - so has he really been that bad |
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Post by RAF on Oct 15, 2009 10:00:54 GMT
What I don't buy is this 'he's at a new club' malarky!
Yes I could understand it if he's come from the lower leagues and needed time to adjust to the pace of the Prem, but for fucks sake he's apparently a proven premiership player who has been voted player of the season.
It really doesn't matter how the fucking team is set up, you can either tackle or you can't.
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Post by magicmanfuller on Oct 15, 2009 10:05:50 GMT
What I don't buy is this 'he's at a new club' malarky! Yes I could understand it if he's come from the lower leagues and needed time to adjust to the pace of the Prem, but for fucks sake he's apparently a proven premiership player who has been voted player of the season. It really doesn't matter how the fucking team is set up, you can either tackle or you can't. H Thats just rubbish mate. Like I say, hes playing out of position, in a back four with three players he's never met before. For a defender, the importance of knowing the game of the other players in the backline is essential. You will proberbly notice that the best defenses have been playing together for a long period of time. I'm sure in time once he has settled and got a better understanding of how we play and the other players' games we will see improvement from both collins nad whitehead |
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Post by RAF on Oct 15, 2009 10:14:41 GMT
I think that pretty much sums up what we need to know from what you have seen. Clearly not alot.
He's either a clearly solid left back, or someone who is playing out of position and needs more time to gel.
Which is it?
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Post by magicmanfuller on Oct 15, 2009 10:31:02 GMT
I think that pretty much sums up what we need to know from what you have seen. Clearly not alot. He's either a clearly solid left back, or someone who is playing out of position and needs more time to gel. Which is it? H Its both. Hes not been as good as I would have hoped, however I think he will improve when given more time to gel. I still think his performances have been solid enough given the circumstances. Its quite funny how you selectively quote what other people say, ignoring the part that proves you wrong and highlighting only part of the argument. Or do you prefer higgy at left back? |
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Post by RAF on Oct 15, 2009 11:01:42 GMT
I'm sorry I must have missed the bit about being proven wrong, you'll have to point me in the direction of it.
At the moment I would prefer Higgy at left back over Collins.
It's not ideal I'll grant you and his distribution lets him down, however he isn't a headless chicken like Collins, who I have to say didn't have too bad a game last time out.
This getting to know how we play' is a fucking weak excuse for someone who is most of the time out of his depth.
TP runs a fairly rigid back line, you don't have to be a brain surgeon to know that, and what ever formation is played or how long you have been at a club does not excuse being slow, clumsy and not being able to read the game properly.
Now if that is being selective I can only apologise.
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Post by MrMagic on Oct 15, 2009 11:36:21 GMT
I just love the "Tonge was shit at Portsmouth" argument, as it contains more holes than a string vest.
I think it is safe to say that during the course of last season many of our players had one shocker at least, but somehow these are conveniently wiped from memory, whilst Tonge is hung out to dry on one performance.
It couldn't be that we are looking for examples to support the managers view, rather than being balanced could it????
Amdy Faye potentially cost us at least 1 point at the Riverside with a stupid tackle that got him sent off, but I've not seem too much vilification on that front.
Tonge is a decent footballer. Sadly he doesn't fit the mold of what we are looking for in a midfielder, which begs the question why we blew so much money on him.
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Post by RAF on Oct 15, 2009 11:39:54 GMT
He's alright but he's no Darrel Russel or Dave Brammer!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2009 12:55:43 GMT
I just love the "Tonge was shit at Portsmouth" argument, as it contains more holes than a string vest. I think it is safe to say that during the course of last season many of our players had one shocker at least, but somehow these are conveniently wiped from memory, whilst Tonge is hung out to dry on one performance. It couldn't be that we are looking for examples to support the managers view, rather than being balanced could it???? Amdy Faye potentially cost us at least 1 point at the Riverside with a stupid tackle that got him sent off, but I've not seem too much vilification on that front. Tonge is a decent footballer. Sadly he doesn't fit the mold of what we are looking for in a midfielder, which begs the question why we blew so much money on him. I love how you're implying that some have an agenda against Tonge while getting in your customary dig at Amdy Faye, a player you freely admit you were prejudiced against before he'd even kicked a ball for us. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2009 12:56:52 GMT
You asked for one example. One. I gave you three times as many as you asked for. So let's not move the goalposts eh? It's still three more than Whitehead this season. What has Whitehead done that's made him look better than Delap? Whitehead in most of his games has been nothing short of dreadful. You slate Delap and others yet when Whitehead has a bad game it's "boo hoo, the way we play doesn't suit a midfielder like him". You seem to think he's a ball-playing midfielder when nobody else on earth, from Sunderland fans who rated him onwards, seem to agree with that description of him. He's been wank so far. Delap, who has had his share of mediocre games this season, has still lokked acres better than him. Ok, maybe i should have reworded the question to have you got an example tonge positively influencing a game against a current premier league quality side? Your example of hull, wasn't that a 1-1 draw where fuller scored the equaliser (a pen he won for himself)? Wheres the tonge influence there? From what I have seen of whitehead he looks like a technically decent passer of the ball, whether that makes him a ball playing midfielder in the scholes mould i would have to agree would not be the case. However he is imo a better player in pocession then any other centre mid at the club, and I have gathered this opinion from games iv seen when he was playing for sunderland and the glimpses of ability he has shown for us. I've never slated delap, just think we have got better options then him in centre mid, suppose it depends what style of football your into though. Mate, Whitehead's passing has been the worst of any midfielder at the club this seasn, and by a long, long way. |
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Post by RAF on Oct 15, 2009 12:58:08 GMT
If I was to be really fair, I haven't seen enough of the bloke to make an informed opinion.
It's not like he has ever started 4 or 5 games to actually give us that insight.
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Oct 15, 2009 13:12:45 GMT
Stoke's best midfield pairing is delap and whelan. Whether whitehead will change that, or somehow offer us another option remains to be seen, and for me that looks unlikely as whitehead looks a little bit of a headless chicken and i'd prefer to see amdy play if we need an extra defensive element. Deano looks a poor buy so far, big deal.
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Post by mayf on Oct 15, 2009 16:02:06 GMT
Tonge is absolutely crap. Thats the first time I have resorted to that word on this board. What are you all on tonight? So what does that say about your hero wasting £2 million on him ? |
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Post by MrMagic on Oct 15, 2009 19:00:26 GMT
I just love the "Tonge was shit at Portsmouth" argument, as it contains more holes than a string vest. I think it is safe to say that during the course of last season many of our players had one shocker at least, but somehow these are conveniently wiped from memory, whilst Tonge is hung out to dry on one performance. It couldn't be that we are looking for examples to support the managers view, rather than being balanced could it???? Amdy Faye potentially cost us at least 1 point at the Riverside with a stupid tackle that got him sent off, but I've not seem too much vilification on that front. Tonge is a decent footballer. Sadly he doesn't fit the mold of what we are looking for in a midfielder, which begs the question why we blew so much money on him. I love how you're implying that some have an agenda against Tonge while getting in your customary dig at Amdy Faye, a player you freely admit you were prejudiced against before he'd even kicked a ball for us. The point stands rob - plenty of players had the odd poor game last season, Faye was one of them as was Tonge and yet Tonge is "the worst player I have ever seen," for some people. Tell me that isn't an agenda. Incidently - if you can find a post where I have had a "customary dig" at Amdy Faye since last February I'll be very impressed. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2009 19:02:30 GMT
I love how you're implying that some have an agenda against Tonge while getting in your customary dig at Amdy Faye, a player you freely admit you were prejudiced against before he'd even kicked a ball for us. The point stands rob - plenty of players had the odd poor game last season, Faye was one of them as was Tonge and yet Tonge is "the worst player I have ever seen," for some people. Tell me that isn't an agenda. Incidently - if you can find a post where I have had a "customary dig" at Amdy Faye since last February I'll be very impressed. There's one on this thread isn't there? |
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Post by droz on Oct 15, 2009 19:06:05 GMT
He's never quite fulfilled his potential. He looked good when Sheffield United went on that run of being very good for a couple of years, but then faded. I was surprised when we signed him, and am equally unsurprised that he hasn't made it. Sheffield United will get a decent enough Championship player back, though.
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Post by MrMagic on Oct 15, 2009 19:18:00 GMT
The point stands rob - plenty of players had the odd poor game last season, Faye was one of them as was Tonge and yet Tonge is "the worst player I have ever seen," for some people. Tell me that isn't an agenda. Incidently - if you can find a post where I have had a "customary dig" at Amdy Faye since last February I'll be very impressed. There's one on this thread isn't there? For Gods sake - If you read the words you'd see it was just an example. If I shout does it make it easier to understand? OK LOTS OF OUR PLAYERS HAD THE ODD BAD GAME LAST SEASON. TONGE AT PORTSMOUTH, FAYE AT THE RIVERSIDE, OTHER PEOPLE ELSEWHERE. TONGES PERFORMANCE AT POMPEY DOES NOT JUSTIFY CALLING HIM "THE WORST PLAYER I'VE SEEN" AND SUCHLIKE. Is it clear now???????????? Yes - I do think that Faye is pretty bad, but that wasn't the point of the post and fine well you know it. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2009 19:23:21 GMT
There's one on this thread isn't there? For Gods sake - If you read the words you'd see it was just an example. If I shout does it make it easier to understand? OK LOTS OF OUR PLAYERS HAD THE ODD BAD GAME LAST SEASON. TONGE AT PORTSMOUTH, FAYE AT THE RIVERSIDE, OTHER PEOPLE ELSEWHERE. TONGES PERFORMANCE AT POMPEY DOES NOT JUSTIFY CALLING HIM "THE WORST PLAYER I'VE SEEN" AND SUCHLIKE. Is it clear now???????????? Yes - I do think that Faye is pretty bad, but that wasn't the point of the post and fine well you know it. I got the point you were making fine thanks - I'm not a remedial. Neither do I agree with march's assertion. I just thought it was funny that you talk about people not giving Tonge a fair crack when you yourself have done the same thing with Amdy. |
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Post by MrMagic on Oct 15, 2009 19:27:10 GMT
Amdy has a long and well established history of being next to useless, I don't need to give him a chance ;D
Tonge on the other hand, has, in the past, been quite respected as a footballer.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2009 19:28:54 GMT
Amdy has a long and well established history of being next to useless, I don't need to give him a chance ;D Tonge on the other hand, has, in the past, been quite respected as a footballer. You don't really have a leg to stand on here do you? ;D |
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Post by suttontiger on Oct 15, 2009 19:33:49 GMT
Tonge was a decent player 5 years back, but he's been steadily getting worse
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