Shame but it will be bye bye Glen

[sargestokie]

Jul 25, 2009 9:59:19 GMT bunnyscfc said:

a solution for me:

1. Listen, no matter how limited a player some think he is, Rory has to play with this current squad. Take his throws out and just how many quality balls to we put into the box or to our strikers. When we get better players and can actually play football then we'll change.

We simply can't play football with the squad we have. That's not a dig at anyone, but most games see us launching it for 3/4 of a game. If folk don't like that, then tough. Witness most games consisting of Messrs Wilkinson and Higginbotham simply hoofing it diagonally towards Beatts. This went on Tuesday night in Austria too, and won't change. Etherington and Lawrence might as well take newspapers onto the pitch for the amount of quality ball they get off their full backs. The Hapoel game was embarrassing how we couldn't pass a football at times. In a pre-season, no-tackle no-pressure-game, we had 80% of our squad who can't even do the basics.

We therefore simply have to carry on playing as we did last season. NOWT wrong with that, as it's results what count, but that means that Rory must play in some shape or form.

3. Personally, I'd take Rory at right back over Wilko as we MUST keep the throw-in option with this squad of players. Wilko improved but is not a Premiership player in my eyes. He offers very little with the ball at his feet. If our fill backs don't start passing the thing then we'll not get any better, and could very possibly get worse.

Harsh stuff, maybe, but I want us to progress. Whitehead offers us nowt extra with the ball at his feet. Whelan is our best passer by a mile (not the hardest competition to win, I'll grant you), and I wouldn't write off Rory in centre midfield just yet, either. Plenty of poor 2-3million quid signings hardly got a kick last season at Stoke, and rightly so.

If i'm being honest, the throw in was working less and less towards the end of the season and i think other teams were starting to grow wise to it, in my oppinion. Look how well we did towards the end of the season and hardly any of those goals came from throw in's, with the match againest Middlesbrough being the main exception. Rory does contribute elsewhere, but i think in order for us to progress, the throw in has to go.

[Deleted]

It would be crazy to have that weapon at our disposal and choose not to use it though.

Ideally, we'll improve on both our current centre mids and we can use Rory as an effective sub, to tidy things up when we're trying to close out the game or to use the throw to cause chaos if we're chasing. What a psychological blow it would be for tiring defences with 20 minutes to go to see Rory and Mama getting ready to come on!

[stokiepo]

As FM has already pointed out, there's no room for sentiment in football. I'd be extremely surprised if TP didn't recognise what a good second half of the season Glen had. He won't be going anywhere. I think Oli will disappear but I don't see Glen falling behind Amdy Faye in the pecking order. Lawro and Ethers will probably play every game that they're fit leaving Whitehead, Delap, Diao and Whelan to fight out the two centre mid positions.

[Block 22]

I honestly think we will sign another CM before the season starts..

GON will do nicely.. ;D

[sammychung]

Delaps getting on a bit too.

[robwahlmann]

I think Glen did a good job for us last season, but he is not an exceptional player. A lot think of Glen as a better player than Rory, but last season Rory scored more goals and assisted many more goals. In addition to this Rory is even a better defencive player than Glen! Of course you are entitled to your own opinion, but the statistics is a bit in Rory's favour I think.

[sargestokie]

Jul 25, 2009 10:54:27 GMT robwahlmann said:

I think Glen did a good job for us last season, but he is not an exceptional player. A lot think of Glen as a better player than Rory, but last season Rory scored more goals and assisted many more goals. In addition to this Rory is even a better defencive player than Glen! Of course you are entitled to your own opinion, but the statistics is a bit in Rory's favour I think.

Many of these assists came from his throw ins though .

I do agree with Robvandeurzen though, that he would be a fantastic impact sub, in the fact that if were not scoring any goals towards the end of a match, use the rocket throw in as an extra weapon to catch the oposition off guard

[bentrep01]

Why does the signing of one player mean the departure of another?We need a squad of 16 or 17 prem quality players.Whitehead fits the bill in this respect imho.Glenn has been doing a good job in central midfield and I`m sure he`ll do the same this season.This sort of negative thread does us no credit

[Danstoke82]

Jul 25, 2009 8:44:31 GMT cousindupree said:

Although no world beater I thought Glen was fantastic in the second half of the season and was our best midfielder by some way.
But with the arrival of Whitehead who will be one of the first names on the sheet every week as captain, I think Glen will be given the elbow to the bench or maybe even off before the end of August.
TP doesn't rate him and last season he was hauled off at Bolton never to be seen again until december when Salif got injured at N'castle. TP would pick Rory Oli Amdy and Diao all ahead of Glen...even when TP changed the midfield during a game he would bring on cresser before Glen. Now there is another hard worker in midfield it will be whelan who goes.
So no decent passes ain midfield and certainly no goals....wrong decision in my view

There can only be one man for the Captains job......

[Olgrligm]

I think we can get one more season out of Rory. It's been said before that if he didn't have his long throw, people would want him out of the team because he's only a Championship player - that's true, the same people who spent 4 seasons moaning whenever Sidibe played because they couldn't understand how important he was to the team would want him gone. Let's face it, over a 90 minute game of football Delap's contribution is better than Whelan (again, you've got to watch what's going on off the ball and when the opposition have the ball, that's what concerns the manager), he'll get more assists next season and nobody has properly sussed out the long throw. Even if goals from it did tail off over the course of last season, you have to remember that Rory was injured, that we did continue to score from it relatively consistently and that it instantly puts teams on the back foot. How many times do we continue to win corners from it? How many opposition teams bring 11 men back?

Ball retention is a fault of ours. Whitehead can apparently help with that and will play box to box if someone covers him. Is Whelan going to cover the back four? Is he buggery. Will Delap, the most intelligent footballer in our squad, cover the back four? Well he's done it effectively every time he's played in central midfield, that's why he's so highly valued by the management. Getting rid of him would be suicide. Still, people wanted Parkin to play ahead of Sidibe and look what happened then. I do like Whelan as a player, but you have to look beyond the two excellent passes he plays a game and look at how often he gives the ball away, how weak and inconsistent he can be in the tackle.

And that is why Whitehead will replace Whelan. Let's see.

[bayernoatcake]

Whitehead at right back-no ta
Whitehead playing ahead of Delap-no ta
Whitehead playing ahead of Whelan-no ta
Whitehead playing of Lawrence-no ta
Whitehead getting splinters in his arse off the bench-yes please!

[march4]

I would be amazed if Whelan gets anywhere near the first 11 next season. When we have the ball he is too inconsistent. I think some of you are being blinded by his occasional long pass. Half his passes are to the opposition and he is caught in possession from time to time.

However, I can forgive all of this, when the options are Amdy, Salif, Oil, Tonge and Soares, as they are all far worse.

When we have the ball Whelan is even better than Rory.

His big problem is when we don't have the ball, which is the majority of every game. His poor tackles, missed interceptions and failing to track back have clearly cost us goals (2 away at Newcastle, Fulham away, Hull away). Giving away goals is TP's greatest sin and it is for this reason Glen Whelan will have his own spot on the bench next season.

Rory (TP's player of the season, don't forget) will have a place in the starting 11. You can't throw away all of those assists and expect to do as well next season. While the opposition worry about the throw ins we can score goals from other positions. Rory must play!!

[lawrenceslength]

there's no chance in hell we'll get rid of Glen whelan, if you can't tell by the players we've being linked with this summer, Pulis is definatly trying to turn us into more of a footballing side, and Glen Whelan is with ease one of the best football players we've got

[walrus]

Let's get a few things straight:

1) Whitehead will not be captain

2) Whelan isn't all that great, he's capable of producing some good stuff, but drifts in and out of games and is certainly not the all powerful string-pullker some people make out.

3) If Pulis would pick Amdy Faye and Olofinjana ahead of Whelan, why didn't he? Though Amdy was injured from March, there was a long time when they were both fit and Whelan was still picked.

4) With Salif, Rory and Amdy all in their thirties and waning in influence and ability, they will start to play less of a role. Olofinjana will probably leave this summer, which means there is still plenty for Glenn to do.

[bayernoatcake]

1) He might be TP has a habit of doing strange that ultimately make him look like a genius or a bit of a fool

2) He isn't I agree

3) TP did start all of the above ahead of Whelan for a good half a season despite it being obvious Delap and Whelan were our best pairing in the middle.

4) I agree but I've never got the feeling TP trusts Whelan and will if the right offer comes along (not necesarrily a big one) get rid of him.

[Nick1984]

Jul 25, 2009 8:48:32 GMT SCFC92 said:

Delap can be dropped you know, and there is no way in hell Pulis will f*ck up again, trust his judgement, he got us 12th last year and all you are taking from is a couple of pessimists on here and a load of Sunderland fans who are bound to be shitty about losing a player who has CAPTAINED THEM IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE! AND HAS 5 YEARS EXPERIENCE IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE!

Play Delap at home and Whitehead away?

[th05]

I'd be gutted if Whelan was cast aside.

[mikeyb99]

Jul 25, 2009 12:46:03 GMT Olgrligm said:

I think we can get one more season out of Rory. It's been said before that if he didn't have his long throw, people would want him out of the team because he's only a Championship player - that's true, the same people who spent 4 seasons moaning whenever Sidibe played because they couldn't understand how important he was to the team would want him gone. Let's face it, over a 90 minute game of football Delap's contribution is better than Whelan (again, you've got to watch what's going on off the ball and when the opposition have the ball, that's what concerns the manager), he'll get more assists next season and nobody has properly sussed out the long throw. Even if goals from it did tail off over the course of last season, you have to remember that Rory was injured, that we did continue to score from it relatively consistently and that it instantly puts teams on the back foot. How many times do we continue to win corners from it? How many opposition teams bring 11 men back?

Ball retention is a fault of ours. Whitehead can apparently help with that and will play box to box if someone covers him. Is Whelan going to cover the back four? Is he buggery. Will Delap, the most intelligent footballer in our squad, cover the back four? Well he's done it effectively every time he's played in central midfield, that's why he's so highly valued by the management. Getting rid of him would be suicide. Still, people wanted Parkin to play ahead of Sidibe and look what happened then. I do like Whelan as a player, but you have to look beyond the two excellent passes he plays a game and look at how often he gives the ball away, how weak and inconsistent he can be in the tackle.

And that is why Whitehead will replace Whelan. Let's see.

I for one have never moaned about Sidibe, and recognise what a crucial player he is for us, and what a stirling job he does on and off the ball to open up space for Fuller. There is no comparison between the job Rory does, and the job Mama does. Rory is a ten-a-penny Championship-quality midfielder who masks a lack of footballing ability with graft and a long throw (which HAS been sussed out).

I watch what goes on, on and off the ball, and it is absolutely clear and evident that Whelan does the donkey work at least as well as Delap, with the added bonus of excellent shooting and (more than the occassional) incisive passing. Lots of people seem to have forgotten that up until Villa away we were a pretty crap team, and looking very likely to be relegated. The fact of the matter is, that once we got Glen, Beattie, Ethers and (later) Lawro into the team we were a much better footballing team and didn't need the ineffectual Delap. I was crying out near the end of the season for more short-throws rather than long-ones precisely because the long throw gifted possession back to the opposition and put us under unnecessary pressure.

Whitehead, it seems, is a grafter and a worker with no guile whatsoever. He should be here to take Rory's position. Frankly, in EVERY SINGLE ATTRIBUTE apart from throw-ins Glen is a BETTER player than Delap.

Will Pulis do the sensible thing and play Whitehead instead of Delap? I don't know, but for the sake of Stoke City I hope he does!

[march4]

Whelan can pass better than Rory, his shots are more of a threat.

Rory wins on every other comparison.

[mikeyb99]

Jul 25, 2009 13:40:52 GMT march4 said:

Rory wins on every other comparison.

Totally disagree.

[march4]

Jul 25, 2009 13:41:38 GMT mikeyb99 said:

Jul 25, 2009 13:40:52 GMT march4 said:

Rory wins on every other comparison.

Totally disagree.

But the big question is who does TP think is better?

His player of the season or a player he has dropped as soon as the opportunity has shown itself.

[PerCyfilth ....Captains Log]

Its ludicrous to suggest we let go or reduce to a bit part player a mid twenties something international midfielder for two players at the end of their careers. TP isnt that stupid. Delap and Diao have a season left in all probability... maybe half in Diaos case so Glenn will play more than he sits on the bench and so he should.
I dont see how TP rates Diao so highly ,reading the game apart he hasnt a lot to offer and Rory..well great throw in and gives 100% but neither have Whelans quality.JMHO.

[mikeyb99]

Jul 25, 2009 13:46:00 GMT march4 said:

Jul 25, 2009 13:41:38 GMT mikeyb99 said:

Totally disagree.

But the big question is who does TP think is better?

His player of the season or a player he has dropped as soon as the opportunity has shown itself.

I hope Whelan has proved himself to the manager in the same way that he has proved himself to the fans. Apart from Cresswell being a bench-regular/starter for all of last season I didn't feel Tone made a consistently stupid decision.

[bayernoatcake]

Why are we comparing Whelan and Delap? They compliment each other, that is why they play well together.

[mikeyb99]

Jul 25, 2009 13:50:40 GMT bayernoatcake said:

Why are we comparing Whelan and Delap? They compliment each other, that is why they play well together.

Because one of them will make way for Whitehead in all probability?

[march4]

Interesting stats on the performance of Whelan. His starts can be split in two parts. 1) without Rory in the middle 2) with Rory in the middle

1) without Rory - 8 starts, no victories and the awful defeats at Bolton and Blackburn

2) with Rory in the middle - 10 starts, 6 wins

I think that says it all.

[bayernoatcake]

Jul 25, 2009 13:52:12 GMT mikeyb99 said:

Jul 25, 2009 13:50:40 GMT bayernoatcake said:

Why are we comparing Whelan and Delap? They compliment each other, that is why they play well together.

Because one of them will make way for Whitehead in all probability?

Sorry, I forgot we had TP as manager. Buy Whitehead he plays for Delap. We sign O'Neil he replaces Whelan. Its as simple as that imo. For what its worth I'd stay with Delap and Whelan even though we have Whitehead.

[Deleted]

Jul 25, 2009 13:50:15 GMT mikeyb99 said:

Jul 25, 2009 13:46:00 GMT march4 said:

But the big question is who does TP think is better?

His player of the season or a player he has dropped as soon as the opportunity has shown itself.

I hope Whelan has proved himself to the manager in the same way that he has proved himself to the fans. Apart from Cresswell being a bench-regular/starter for all of last season I didn't feel Tone made a consistently stupid decision.

Whelan needs to improve his ball retention and influence games more consistently to properly "prove himself" imo.

[mikeyb99]

Jul 25, 2009 13:52:28 GMT march4 said:

Interesting stats on the performance of Whelan. His starts can be split in two parts. 1) without Rory in the middle 2) with Rory in the middle

1) without Rory - 8 starts, no victories and the awful defeats at Bolton and Blackburn

2) with Rory in the middle - 10 starts, 6 wins

I think that says it all.

Yep, and the stats also show Cresswell made 20-odd appearances (at least) in the Prem last season. Does that make him a 'Premiership standard' player?

[sufolkstokie]

Whelan and Whitehead start at Preston - so looks like TP has this partnership in mind