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Post by wakefieldstokie on May 4, 2009 16:20:56 GMT
I've been reading some old programs with Steino in, which got me thinking in regard to Stoke greats.
Is Fuller a Stoke Great?
Ab Faye?
Was Sergei?
Discuss...
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Post by Linx on May 4, 2009 16:27:39 GMT
None of them (yet). Fuller is too temperamental and his bitch slap really soured my opinion of him. Ab Faye has not been with us long enough, but if he sees out his career with us (rather than going to Big Sam next season or the season after) then he could stand a chance of joining the immortals. Sergei? We only saw him in the lower leagues. I would say top flight is a criteria. or, rather, criterion  |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2009 16:39:40 GMT
Would that mean you don't consider the likes of Steino, Hoekstra etc. Stoke greats?
I think Fuller's well on his way to being a Stoke great tbh, given what an exciting player is, the great moments he's given us and his contribution to our recent success. In 10-20 years I think we'll look back on him as one of our heroes.
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Post by FullerMagic on May 4, 2009 16:43:54 GMT
It depends how selective you're being in your terminology, I suppose.
I think he was the single biggest reason we went up last season.
And given how historic it was for us after such a long absence, he automatically becomes a massive figure in our modern history.
And his 8 this season have made a significant contribution in keeping us there. If he ends up with double figures, that's a hell of a return for a team like us considering how much more he offers as our focal point.
I'd say one more fruitful season would give him a real shot at being considered a 'great' in the modern era unless you were just going to include the real cream like Matthews, Franklin, Hudson, Banks, Ritchie, Greenhoff, Smith etc.
As for Abdy, it's tough to call him a great on the basis of one season, however sensational it's been. No reason to suggest he won't give us a couple more of this standard though. If he does, he'll be a shoo-in.
It's great to think we're finally getting some candidates to join our all-time hall of fame after some of the absolute dross of the last quarter of a century
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Post by dwr17477 on May 4, 2009 16:46:05 GMT
Surely to be a true great you have to have performed for Stoke in the top flight. Eg Matthews, Banks, Hudson, etc. Stein, etc couldn't be in that catagory-well not for me.
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Post by MrDBrent on May 4, 2009 16:47:32 GMT
i dont think he is since he slapped his own captain and moans on odd occacions.. class player but that has let him down
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Post by edouardlapaglie on May 4, 2009 16:50:04 GMT
i dont think he is since he slapped his own captain and moans on odd occacions.. class player but that has let him down But by that theory players such as Cantona, Gascoigne and Best to name just three off the top of my head cannot be 'greats' as their off and on field antics 'let them down' |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2009 16:52:03 GMT
i dont think he is since he slapped his own captain and moans on odd occacions.. class player but that has let him down Hudson wasn't an angel either though was he? With Fuller I think the good hugely outweighs the bad. I don't think you necessarily have to have performed in the top flight. Maybe it's because of my age but my heroes are Stein, Biggins, Taggart, Hoekstra, and I don't respect them any less than the current bunch simply because they had the misfortune of turning out for us when times weren't so good. |
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Post by stokiemama14 on May 4, 2009 16:55:33 GMT
for all Ric's stupidity and the daft things he sometimes does, he is also a top lad and is still a class player on his day!
he helped us very alot to get to the top divison and has netted us 8 goals so far this season, for me i think he is a Stoke great and when looked back on in later times people will also agree!
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Post by Linx on May 4, 2009 16:59:32 GMT
It probably is my age. My formative years were spent with the great 70s side. Steino and Hoekstra were great at their level, and Stein got his big move to Chelsea, but Hoeky was too fragile and didn't play enough games.
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Post by bunnyscfc on May 4, 2009 17:07:37 GMT
Hoeky was absolute class, no doubt about it. But some folk seem to forget the countless games he did very little in. Sorry if that upsets some folk, but he was often a passenger at times.
Probably due to playing with philistines and in a crap league, but I can remember plenty of games where he hid in the 90 minutes whilst we were walking back from the brit.
I will reiterate though, undoubtedly one of the most skillfil players to ever grace the stripes.
I would have Ric and Ab as SCFC greats now to be honest. Certainly two of the very best players I've seen in 34 years of watching Stoke. It's all relative, isn't it, as most of that time we've been crap.
Although I liked Thorney, he was a box player and simnply scored (yes, I know that's what it's all about). But imho:
Fuller>Stein>Sheron>Thorne
Ab>Sergei
as both are doing it at the highest level.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2009 17:11:12 GMT
Fuller, is not a "great" player but a pretty good one in my opinion. Faye has the true potential to be "great",
he reminds me of Alan Dodd, after a decade or so of body building steriods
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Post by griffoisalegend on May 4, 2009 17:47:19 GMT
If Fuller can not go down as one of the stoke greats, then who can?
Fuller is a great player if you judge how he plays for us, he's got to be one of the most unique and exciting player we've ever had. He's tempermental, yeah yeah yeah - without this streak he wouldn't be the player he is ,he's stoke's best signing for a huge amount of time for what he's done for the club. Better than Abdy for what he has done so far, easily.
Every member of this team, (and lasts) should be considered as Stokie greats, they will be when we're back in the champ or league one in say - 10-15 years time.
Lawrence has to go down as a genuine great as well - in the promotion winning season, these and Shawcross got us up.
But really, although many people won't accept it - Pulis is the real legend who should get more praise than the players every day of the week, he's unearthed so many gems it's unreal.
For me, of this current team, it's very hard to leave anyone out but the duo of Lawrence and Fuller have been pretty instrumental
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Post by stokiehad on May 4, 2009 17:49:43 GMT
fuller is a stoke great!
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Post by march4 on May 4, 2009 17:50:34 GMT
Do they compare with Sir Stan, Banksie, Franklin or Steele. Are any of our current team on a par with Greenhoff, Big John or Huddy. Do any even compare with Shilts or Sir Geoff.
Now we are in the Prem it will be hard for any of our current players to become a great and I haven't even mentioned Smithy or Chamberlain yet.
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Post by MrDBrent on May 4, 2009 17:52:39 GMT
i dont think he is since he slapped his own captain and moans on odd occacions.. class player but that has let him down But by that theory players such as Cantona, Gascoigne and Best to name just three off the top of my head cannot be 'greats' as their off and on field antics 'let them down' well personally IMO you have to have the right attitude and allways fully committed to be a true great |
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Post by stokebill on May 4, 2009 17:53:58 GMT
Speaking as an exile who mostly follows games through commentary on the official site - Fuller is the only player of the past 7 or 8 years who doesn't need a name check when he receives the ball, the hugely increased volume from the crowd tells all.
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Post by griffoisalegend on May 4, 2009 17:54:43 GMT
Do they compare with Sir Stan, Banksie, Franklin or Steele. Are any of our current team on a par with Greenhoff, Big John or Huddy. Do any even compare with Shilts or Sir Geoff. Now we are in the Prem it will be hard for any of our current players to become a great and I haven't even mentioned Smithy or Chamberlain yet. Ability wise, perhaps not. But that's not what it's all about, a great player is different to being a "great" for a club. You have to say, that the contribution's made by many players this season and last and the ACHIEVEMENTS they have made having been pretty unknown before joining Stoke suggests that they can indeed be mentioned in the same breath as Hudson etc - obviously, they are some way short of having the talent he had, but for what they have done for the club, so unexpectedly might i add - they can't be anything but remembered in the same vain. Next time we are doing shit, and it will arrive, maybe sooner rather than later - We'll be hoping for tempermental, problemed maverick's - just wait, we'll be chasing the Martin Butler's of this footballing world and we'll all be saying, if only we had Fuller - now what a player he was for Stoke City. Oh no, he was a bit of a nob, lets forget him then and move to Ryan Giggs of Manchester United. |
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Post by crimesy on May 4, 2009 20:15:15 GMT
Fuller is definatley one of the best players i have ever seen in a Stoke shirt, perhaps Hoekstra may top him but that was in a lower league. I also had very low expectations when i found out we were forking out 300k for a bench-warmer from Southampton.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2009 20:23:13 GMT
Next to Huddy Hoeksta is the most skilful player I've ever seen in red and white, a Stoke great no way. Fuller is a very good player but a Stoke great? Not sure, its all about opinions I suppose.
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Post by growler on May 4, 2009 20:45:25 GMT
Personally thought the last great Stokie was Gunnerson. Hooky didn't play enough. Fuller needs one more good season and other potential greats are Shawcross and Ab Faye if they stay long enough.
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Post by mermaidsal on May 4, 2009 23:33:51 GMT
Being a bit tough-minded about this, I'd say we're just now putting ourselves in a position where Stoke Greats can start to exist again. Abdy and Ric would be candidates if they can put in another 2+ good Prem seasons, same goes for BT but my tip for the next Great (if, and it's a very big if imho, he doesn't move on) would be Ryan, who's still got his best years in front of him.
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Post by ghostinthehouse on May 4, 2009 23:39:43 GMT
all in waiting, sergei poss
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Post by Inverness Stokie on May 4, 2009 23:42:06 GMT
It'll take alot for Fuller to be redeemed in my eyes after "Fullergate" and let's be honest we all were pretty pissed off with him and Griffin after that. If Abdoulaye stays with us for a few more years then yeah he'll be considered a Stoke Great. For people to say that "if you haven't played in the top flight with Stoke then can't be consdered a great" is a bit harsh to the supporters who weren't born in the correct era to see the likes of Sir Stan, Banksy, Hudson, Conroy, Greenhoff, Eastman. I'd like to say i class Stein, Pejic, Thorney and Hoekstra as greats. Maybe Glenn can be as good a CM as Alan Hudson. Just maybe  |
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Post by march4 on May 4, 2009 23:47:46 GMT
Do they compare with Sir Stan, Banksie, Franklin or Steele. Are any of our current team on a par with Greenhoff, Big John or Huddy. Do any even compare with Shilts or Sir Geoff. Now we are in the Prem it will be hard for any of our current players to become a great and I haven't even mentioned Smithy or Chamberlain yet. Ability wise, perhaps not. But that's not what it's all about, a great player is different to being a "great" for a club. You have to say, that the contribution's made by many players this season and last and the ACHIEVEMENTS they have made having been pretty unknown before joining Stoke suggests that they can indeed be mentioned in the same breath as Hudson etc - obviously, they are some way short of having the talent he had, but for what they have done for the club, so unexpectedly might i add - they can't be anything but remembered in the same vain. Next time we are doing shit, and it will arrive, maybe sooner rather than later - We'll be hoping for tempermental, problemed maverick's - just wait, we'll be chasing the Martin Butler's of this footballing world and we'll all be saying, if only we had Fuller - now what a player he was for Stoke City. Oh no, he was a bit of a nob, lets forget him then and move to Ryan Giggs of Manchester United. We probably need more categories in this comparison. At the moment we seem to have great, average and rubbish. Perhaps it would be better to give a percentage ranking with Sir Stan at 100% and Pericard at 0%. Everyone else can fall in between. I would put Fuller at about 70% with Abdy slightly higher. Comments? |
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Post by kidsgrove4 on May 4, 2009 23:54:44 GMT
He's no Bamber or Statham.  |
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Post by kidsgrove4 on May 4, 2009 23:56:33 GMT
Fuller, is not a "great" player but a pretty good one in my opinion. Faye has the true potential to be "great", he reminds me of Alan Dodd, after a decade or so of body building steriods reminds me of Alan Dodd. me too! Just a lot bigger, bald head, very muscly and black! Dodd to a T !! ;D |
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 4, 2009 23:58:22 GMT
It really comes down to how you define the word 'great'.
I think the criteria used might vary wildly, depending on the age of the person answering the question.
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Post by lordb on May 5, 2009 12:16:32 GMT
Great Stoke City strikers (imho & in no particular order): Steele,Ritchie,Charlie Wilson? (Mather era - the fact that I have put a question mark shows 1:I'm not sure of his name & 2:he cant have been that great if I cant remember his name)
er.... Greenhoff - clearly a great although perhaps more of a forward than a goalscorer.
er... Stein - i think he deserves it.
Geoff Hurst? - not a great for Stoke I guess,decent record though.
Chapman?Crooks,Heath?Mudie?Biggins,Thorne?
not exactly blessed with 'great' strikers really.
Fuller? not sure.
as above if he performs for at least 1 mores season then maybe.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on May 5, 2009 13:53:19 GMT
As a kid I saw Hudson, Smith, Mahoney, Pejic, TC, Ritchie, and of course my personal favourite Jimmy Greenhoff. All of those would count as greats. In later eras Mickey Thomas and George Berry were really popular players, maybe legends, but maybe not greats. Think Stein was, not sure Hooky, for all his undoubted ability ever produced at the highest level.
I think Ricardo is a Stoke great. He's Tony's greatest luxury, an entertainer, a magician. Unbelievably talented, a maverick who can make something out of nothing. Can't believe people who think he's lazy. Part of our game is to knock it up to Ric and wait for him to make something happen. He is so important to our style of play. Next time you watch, just count the number of throw ins, free kicks and corners he wins. Set pieces are crucial to us, and he is central to this. Usually he is faced by 2 or 3, but his unique mix of pace, strength, determination and skill invariably means he gets something. This was demonstrated maybe 5 or 6 times on saturday, when by his own high standards he was fairly quiet. Add this to his goals, his assists, the way he ties up other defenders and his sheer entertainment value, and I say he has to be a Stoke City legend and great.
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