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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 27, 2009 22:56:38 GMT
Ok let's cut the emotion and look at the stats: www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11662_2705370,00.html Opta stats for passing is interesting, we are bottom by a long long long long way They call it hoof ball, we say it's the way we play but stats don't lie. How can we progress forward if we don't hit our man? Watched Portsmouth V Villa tonight and even a sit side like Portsmouth had the ability to win a ball and play a good pass off, something we seem not to be able to do I've been keeping an eye on those stats throughout the season. They are literally unbelievable. That one team can have the fewest passes and shots by such a massive distance - and yet still be in the survival mix defies belief. It says a hell of a lot about how...er...unique our approach is though |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 27, 2009 22:56:53 GMT
What we will never know Bayern is if any other formation would have been more successful.  ;D Its sickening isn't it? Well I think it is anyway! We go to every away game bend over backwards and take a length and we do nothing to stop it! ;D |
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Post by Squeekster on Jan 27, 2009 22:58:40 GMT
3-0 down at half time "i know throw on two defenders" nuff said.
Ok one down to injury but hey he picks the team.
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Post by GrandStokie on Jan 27, 2009 22:58:42 GMT
Really, then how do we manage to turn these teams over at the Brittania. It's a valid question. We still lack quality and are very one-dimensional, but we're like a different team at home. Along with the usual advantages of being at home, does the postage-stamp pitch make all the difference, allowing us to hassle effectively for the whole 90 minutes and keep the play very narrow, cluttered and disjointed? We are largely awful away though, and it's getting embarrassing. Yes its a valid question and yes our pitch makes a big difference regarding our home form, but we will always make teams look good if we stand off them (like Lennon's goal) and give the ball away constantly. |
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Post by bogus on Jan 27, 2009 22:59:59 GMT
It's not an excuse, it's the truth! Really, then how do we manage to turn these teams over at the Brittania. Effort, determination, the will to win, the drastic reduction in the pitch size to allow us to close down and stifle the opposition, a hostile atmosphere and no small amount of good fortune. It certainly isn't superior technique, is it? Are you sure we would have beaten Tottenham at home without the penno, sending off and the fact that Ramos had lost the plot? |
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Post by Alvechurch Assassin on Jan 27, 2009 23:01:36 GMT
the non-moaners can't wait for a defeat, so they can have a big moan at the moaners
basically, if we lose and we lose like that - EVERYONE should be moaning
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Post by GrandStokie on Jan 27, 2009 23:02:36 GMT
Really, then how do we manage to turn these teams over at the Brittania. Effort, determination, the will to win, the drastic reduction in the pitch size to allow us to close down and stifle the opposition, a hostile atmosphere and no small amount of good fortune. It certainly isn't superior technique, is it? Are you sure we would have beaten Tottenham at home without the penno, sending off and the fact that Ramos had lost the plot? FFS bogus you make it sound like we have to be grateful that we lose to teams like Spurs because they have better players. Well I'm sorry mate but we need to have a bit more metal about us and stop admiring the opposition. |
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Post by Parksy on Jan 27, 2009 23:03:34 GMT
Ok let's cut the emotion and look at the stats: www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11662_2705370,00.html Opta stats for passing is interesting, we are bottom by a long long long long way They call it hoof ball, we say it's the way we play but stats don't lie. How can we progress forward if we don't hit our man? Watched Portsmouth V Villa tonight and even a sit side like Portsmouth had the ability to win a ball and play a good pass off, something we seem not to be able to do I've been keeping an eye on those stats throughout the season. They are literally unbelievable. That one team can have the fewest passes and shots by such a massive distance - and yet still be in the survival mix defies belief. It says a hell of a lot about how...er...unique our approach is though Not sure what to say now, some would say team work others despite ourselves Whatever the truth I hope to God we manage to actually play football and pass to a fellow Stokie for the remainder of the season |
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Jan 27, 2009 23:11:03 GMT
"#13 promotionite
#51 SIDIBE FOR PRESIDENT
#7 Tony Pulis appreciation thread
#12 The Stayupperites
#10 Matty Etherington Appreciation Society
#1 Andy Wilkinson Appreciation Society
#45 James Beattie Appreciation Society
#3 Peter Coates Appreciation Society
#4 Oooohhhh Georgie Berry Appreciation Society"
Given your appreciation of just about everything Luke, I'm banking on you being right there for me when I start my Give Ourselves Minimum Chance to Win an Away Game Appreciation Society?
How does a Fuck Me We Are One Dimensional Appreciation Society sound?
There again we could just go for I Really Apprecate Clueless Away Performances Appreciations Society.
;D
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 27, 2009 23:13:03 GMT
"#13 promotionite
#51 SIDIBE FOR PRESIDENT
#7 Tony Pulis appreciation thread
#12 The Stayupperites
#10 Matty Etherington Appreciation Society
#1 Andy Wilkinson Appreciation Society
#45 James Beattie Appreciation Society
#3 Peter Coates Appreciation Society
#4 Oooohhhh Georgie Berry Appreciation Society"Given your appreciation of just about everything Luke, I'm banking on you being right there for me when I start my Give Ourselves Minimum Chance to Win an Away Game Appreciation Society? How does a Fuck Me We Are One Dimensional Appreciation Society sound? There again we could just go for I Really Apprecate Clueless Away Performances Appreciations Society. ;D ;D Fookin PHW! |
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Post by bogus on Jan 27, 2009 23:17:28 GMT
Effort, determination, the will to win, the drastic reduction in the pitch size to allow us to close down and stifle the opposition, a hostile atmosphere and no small amount of good fortune. It certainly isn't superior technique, is it? Are you sure we would have beaten Tottenham at home without the penno, sending off and the fact that Ramos had lost the plot? FFS bogus you make it sound like we have to be grateful that we lose to teams like Spurs because they have better players. Well I'm sorry mate but we need to have a bit more metal about us and stop admiring the opposition. No mate! I'm suggesting that the only way we can stay up this year is by showing a bit of metal. Including some of the supporters, when we have a setback. |
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Post by Potter_Mouth on Jan 27, 2009 23:18:53 GMT
FFS bogus you make it sound like we have to be grateful that we lose to teams like Spurs because they have better players. Well I'm sorry mate but we need to have a bit more metal about us and stop admiring the opposition. No mate! I'm suggesting that the only way we can stay up this year is by showing a bit of metal. Including some of the supporters, when we have a setback. Good Post. |
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Post by Parksy on Jan 27, 2009 23:20:40 GMT
No mate! I'm suggesting that the only way we can stay up this year is by showing a bit of metal. Including some of the supporters, when we have a setback. So that's any away game then? |
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Post by Squeekster on Jan 27, 2009 23:21:55 GMT
No mate! I'm suggesting that the only way we can stay up this year is by showing a bit of metal. Including some of the supporters, when we have a setback. Good Post. MMMMMMM How many set backs are we talking about ? oh yes we have still got 15 games left. come on you lemmings after all just follow our leader. |
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Post by luke45 on Jan 27, 2009 23:24:56 GMT
"#13 promotionite
#51 SIDIBE FOR PRESIDENT
#7 Tony Pulis appreciation thread
#12 The Stayupperites
#10 Matty Etherington Appreciation Society
#1 Andy Wilkinson Appreciation Society
#45 James Beattie Appreciation Society
#3 Peter Coates Appreciation Society
#4 Oooohhhh Georgie Berry Appreciation Society"Given your appreciation of just about everything Luke, I'm banking on you being right there for me when I start my Give Ourselves Minimum Chance to Win an Away Game Appreciation Society? How does a Fuck Me We Are One Dimensional Appreciation Society sound? There again we could just go for I Really Apprecate Clueless Away Performances Appreciations Society. ;D I'm a blind optimist, they do exist you know! ;D we'll take 7-9 points from our next 3 games, i honestly believe that. I'm totally proud of every single player for getting us here, as someone who has never experienced top flight football, its a dream come true, that as a youngster looking like a distant fading hope. Role on City, they make have billions of pounds, but we have a fortress, a vocal crowd, a team of tireless workers, and a belief we can stay up. And we are going to shed blood and tears till the final whistle at the Emirates, and thats all i ever ask. |
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Post by Titan Uranus on Jan 27, 2009 23:27:19 GMT
The fact is we are absolutely pants away from home and we all know it.
A lot of it is down to Pulis, his tactics(?), his mentality and his pig-headedness.
It just isn't good enough I'm afraid.
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Post by bogus on Jan 27, 2009 23:28:08 GMT
MMMMMMM How many set backs are we talking about ? oh yes we have still got 15 games left. come on you lemmings after all just follow our leader. Funnily enough, teams in relegation struggles do suffer quite a few, as a rule. |
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Post by march4 on Jan 27, 2009 23:30:09 GMT
The fact is we are absolutely pants away from home and we all know it. A lot of it is down to Pulis, his tactics(?), his mentality and his pig-headedness. It just isn't good enough I'm afraid. It isn't good enough, but changing managers at this stage will just make things worse. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 27, 2009 23:32:10 GMT
The fact is we are absolutely pants away from home and we all know it. A lot of it is down to Pulis, his tactics(?), his mentality and his pig-headedness. It just isn't good enough I'm afraid. It isn't good enough, but changing managers at this stage will just make things worse. Change in tactics away from home would please me!  |
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Post by stokelad84 on Jan 27, 2009 23:32:24 GMT
Its got nothing to do with all the Spurs players being worth over £10million then??? Must be Cresswell and Pulis's fault hey
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 27, 2009 23:35:23 GMT
Its got nothing to do with all the Spurs players being worth over £10million then??? Must be Cresswell and Pulis's fault hey Yes lets worship the ground they walk on and bow down to them because they are all overated, over priced fairies!  I'm sorry its a poor excuse, we're in this league on merit and should expect it and shown we can cope. But today (as in almost every other away game) the tactics were wrong and that included playing Cresswell. |
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Post by bogus on Jan 27, 2009 23:50:36 GMT
Its got nothing to do with all the Spurs players being worth over £10million then??? Must be Cresswell and Pulis's fault hey Yes lets worship the ground they walk on and bow down to them because they are all overated, over priced fairies! I'm sorry its a poor excuse, we're in this league on merit and should expect it and shown we can cope. But today (as in almost every other away game) the tactics were wrong and that included playing Cresswell. How many of their overrated, over priced fairies would you honestly not like to see in a Stoke top, bayern? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 27, 2009 23:53:29 GMT
Most of them but they have shown this season and in their past two games that if You stick it up them You will win. Burnley beat them 3-0 in proper time ffs! Modric is shite if You dominate him and he's been dominated all season. Yet we sit back and let them play. It was shambolic.
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Post by ted1965 on Jan 28, 2009 0:00:13 GMT
The need for three points against Manchester City has become even more vital, as good as our home record is we still haven’t won since we beat the Albion in November and even though we have an easier looking run in than many it’s only easier if we actually begin to win games again.
This kind of run was always going to happen though I think many are frustrated at how some of these results have come about. The fact we persist in playing a certain way despite losing the fulcrum of that system baffles and bewilders many supporters. The manager seems blinded to the lack of ability of certain players and again this causes discontent with him and the system we play especially away from home.
The defensive nature of our play also frustrates, nobody suggests we throw caution to the wind but you can’t give decent or even moderate sides 60% plus of the ball and expect to get many results. Those tactics have failed to gain a victory yet and while we have gathered a few well earned points mostly we have done so without actually threatening to create many worthwhile chances. It’s a simple game, the more chances you create the more opportunities to actually score goals.
The one thing we lack in all areas is pace, it kills sides and gets you out of trouble, when you lack it as we do it forces the side to defend deeper for fear of our lack of pace being exploited, this also negates our attempts to use it as an outlet, if we had some genuine pace in the side we could at least use the long ball up field a little more productively.
It’s easy to simply blame the manager every time we play badly or lose because he does dictate the paten of play, the tactics and players used but the players are also well paid and have a responsibility to give their all for the supporters and the club. Though when the manager persists with a player like Cresswell again and again when we have better sitting on the bench then sorry he has to take responsibility, the side is his, he signed them all and he is responsible for how we play away from home. The problem for me is we have learnt nothing since Bolton, we still make the same mistakes and with a few exceptions away from home we really haven’t looked like winning. I know we performed heroically against Liverpool and Chelsea but they were games where we effectively had nothing to lose.
I haven’t called for the managers head and wont, this season was always going to be a tough one and he earned the right to complete it after gaining promotion but thee has to be a different approach or we really will be doomed. We have to play the best players in their correct positions and look to hold onto the ball more. The only way to do that is for players to look for each other more and not launch the ball forward hoping for something to fall for us, it’s no good launching it forward if you only have two players up there it’s easy ball for the opposition and allows them to control the game for the most part.
We have needed real creativity in the middle of the park for many seasons now and until we have some craft to go with the muscle and swear we will continue to have this same debate over and over. There’s only one man who can change how we play and the type of players we sign and that man is Tony Pulis.
As for the argument that we’re simply up against better sides, well its usually the case when you gain promotion and its up to the manager to address that as best he can. While we have signed some cracking players, we have also signed some dross plus it seems we still don’t know our best formation or how to make the best of the resources we have. I don’t think anyone is expecting us to dominate games against top sides but if we continue to sit off sides as we have done so many times away from home we will still be looking for an away win come May.
The home form was always going to be the key to survival and that’s why we desperately need three points and we need them soon, the longer this winless run continues the more confidence will drain from the side.
I hope we have a few more rabbits from that top hat before next Monday because if we don’t then I really think we’re going to find it hard to survive.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 28, 2009 10:18:35 GMT
Short, by your standards, Ted.
Hard to disagree though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2009 10:26:48 GMT
it's amazing how most of the whingers on here are quick to criticise a lot of the players and TP but never seem to have a solution themselves!!! For those of you who think we are awful,woeful,lacking etc. in certain areas then answer these questions:
1) who would you replace and why?
2) who would you replace them with....and most importantly!!
3) what is the realistic likelihood that we could get that player given the fact that we are a newly pronoted side who have not been in the top flight for 23 years so in all honestly are more than likely (like all newly promoted sides) to go straight back down????
So many people on here seem to think that because we're in the Prem we can now obtain the likes of Kaka and Messi with a bit of Gerrard thrown in for good measure!!! we all agree that we would like to see top quality players at the Brit but strangely enough (for the reasons above) we're not going to get them.
Take a reality pill some of you FFS!!!!
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Post by Will_75 on Jan 28, 2009 10:37:00 GMT
so you were quite happy with the team selection last night then mmlc?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2009 11:20:16 GMT
Wilbur not entirely no i'd have played Fuller from the start and Lawrence from the start but what i'm trying to say is that some on these boards come on criticisng saying how awful a job everyone is doing without offering any solutions or showing any reasoning behind what they're saying, you know the old "Sack TP and sell Kitson" "Why? who do you want instead?" " Dunno but they're crap"...that kind of thing.
i just don't think that although we were all ready for the glory of the Premiership not enough people on here for the reality of the Premeirship. How many newly promoted sides do you see struggling at the bottom in their first season because they're just not the same quality as the rest and as a consequence can't improve as they don't attract the better players? Answer...virtually every team that's come up to the Prem in the last 16 years and whether we like ot or not and whether we want to blinker ourselves to it or not, the truth is that we are oneof these newly promoted sides; we're not Arsenal, Chelsea or Man Ure and can't compete with them at their style of play and shouldn't try to, we can't attractthe same quality of player and will therefore have to struggle to stay up as will West Brazil and Hull (who are in freefall).
Yes, we all got excited over the summer and we all basked in the glory on the pitch at the Leicester match but now is the time to start getting realistic, we're her and it was always going to be very very tough to stay up. I'm not saying i like where we are but to be fair it's probably where i would have expected us to be at this point in the season. I'm actually quite optimistic as there was always a chance of us not having half as many points as we have, not having nearly as many teams still within 3 or 4 points of us and not having as good a run in compared to the other teams that we have.
Last night is not the death knell by any means, we have more winnable away games yet to come and yes we will have to play better but let's just remember we are Stoke in the top flight for the first time in a generation, we are not top 6 material yet.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 28, 2009 11:25:06 GMT
Because we'd be pissing in the wind on a couple of fronts. We all know ways if changing our play but until TP does we're in the same predicamant. And if we offer solutions, You get criticised by some for coaching.
Our tactics away from home can only be described as wank, results show that. And why Cressy started ahead of Kitson (I wouldn't have started Fuller) I'll never know.
I think Lenny in the middle might be worth a go if we don't sign Ledley or Koumas. Why not?!
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Post by Smudge_SCFC on Jan 28, 2009 11:31:43 GMT
Luke45,
Count yourself thankful that you're also #1 in the 'Didn't go to the match myself and witness that mauling but still willing to criticise anybody who did go and expresses their disappoint at truly awful we were' society.
Blind faith gets us nowhere. We did that when Alan Ball was the manager. We had people just like you talking about being positive and getting behind the lads and then we got relegated and finished the following season in our lowest ever league position.
I've had it with blind optimism and faith.
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I'm sorry its a poor excuse, we're in this league on merit and should expect it and shown we can cope. But today (as in almost every other away game) the tactics were wrong and that included playing Cresswell.
