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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2008 12:48:17 GMT
Wigan!! apb1, thanks very much, have some sort of award! (even if we have only played 'em about 19 times in total) ah
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2008 12:51:45 GMT
TrumptonPotter,
Spot on - it's amazing how people's view of a game are based purely on the 3 points.
A game consisting of 8 long throw ins, 1 that gets flicked on and results in a goal following a goalmouth scramble and a goal that results from a great Fuller run is seen as being great if we win 2-0 but, if for some reason we don't get a goal from 8 long throws and Fuller's shot goes wide we're fucking shit.
You're right about West Brom - a couple of good purchases in January could see them OK whereas we look far too reliant on a couple of individuals.
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Post by Beardy200 on Oct 29, 2008 12:52:37 GMT
You can debate this all you like. The truth of the matter is that come the last day of the season we will need a draw or (heaven forbid) a win at Arsenal and other results to fall favourably for us to stay up Yes we can debate all we like ... but nothing beats debating better than a blind prediction based on no facts whatsoever and basing you're whole argument on gut-feeling and instinct. I'm sure a forum based on such predictions would be very popular
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2008 12:53:45 GMT
RAF, we won’t know until the end of the season whether Tone was right about how he has gone about things, the players he’s signed and the tactics he’s deployed. One thing that is for sure, he’s earned the chance to go at things his way this season.
We definitely have a few square peg/round hole situations in the team, I can’t argue with that. If we stay up come the end of the season though the end will justify the means. Time will tell.
One thing for sure is, if we get a win tonight we’ll go onto 10 points, climb out of the bottom 3 and things will be looking okay IMO for this stage in the season.
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Post by RAF on Oct 29, 2008 12:58:39 GMT
I agree he should have a fair crack at it myself. In fact I reckon he should get the season regardless. Saying that I reckon he has the safest job in football at the moment. However I was reading something Momo said the other night about if we are in the shite by Christmas, regardless of Pulis getting us promoted ( Obviously with the help of Coates and lets not forget the players) then Coates should think about geting rid , and getting someone in who can help us stay up.
What do you reckon to that?
H
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Post by ParaPsych on Oct 29, 2008 12:59:25 GMT
Some of you people really need to get a grip. You'd think losing 3-0 away from home was something we've never experienced before.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2008 13:04:15 GMT
RAF, I’d give Pulis the whole season regardless. I think he’s the best man for the job of keeping us up. If he fails, I think he’s the best man to get us back.
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Post by RAF on Oct 29, 2008 13:07:57 GMT
I think either way Pulis will still be manager of Stoke this time next year. Unless Manure come in for him that is H
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2008 13:09:50 GMT
If we were a shambles like Derby were last season then I’d have different views on Pulis. Nobody wants a team that frankly you’re embarrassed of.
We haven’t been embarrassed by anyone though and have been competitive throughout. He deserves the season IMO (and beyond if we do fall short).
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Post by vestanpance on Oct 29, 2008 13:15:42 GMT
Without question he deserves a season.
However given the (let's be nice) dubious transfers he has made this season, i would be reticent about him being in charge of a promotion push.
i've said it before and i'll say it again, Sam Allardyce & Stoke City are made for each other. He has a great understanding of world football, modern coaching techniques & the Premier League, and Stoke fans are not unaccustomed to having a manager who, despite bitter complaints to the contrary, often hoiks the ball forward and hopes for a break.
if we're relegated this season, (and it is by the way still a massive IF) it'll be time for a change.
IMHO of course.
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Post by jezzascfc on Oct 29, 2008 13:26:20 GMT
I love the way AGSF, Ligeia. slangking, whatever his name is next week has to keep changing his name in the hope that people forget the ridiculous things he said under his last nom de plume.
Pulis did a great job in getting us up, no argument from me. So far, on the evidence of the summer transfer dealings and the season so far (especially when compared to the other promoted teams), I am not sure he will, or is able to, keep us up now we are here. I sincerely hope I am wrong mind.
Spunking away 9 mill on two players who have in no way, shape or form set the world alight in the red and white really hasn't helped. For us to stand a chance, Pulis had to get virtually every signing bang on when spending his 20 mill kitty. I'd argue that it seems that he's only spent about 7 mill of it well - Abdy Faye, Higgy, Sorensen and maybe Soares (hard to tell yet, but seems promising), although Davies may prove a good buy in the long-term as well.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 29, 2008 14:29:09 GMT
All these opinions are valid, and we all see it differently, but the fact is its too early to tell.
Our team is still relatively new, and not having a really settled back 4 and centre mid doesn't help us to judge our defensive capabilities.
Out of the 4 home games though, we've won 2, I thought we were unlucky against Everton despite making mistakes that led to goals being conceeded, and were beaten by Chelsea.
We need to keep Fuller fit, get Lenny back in and delivering good quality set pieces, get Kits confident and scoring and get a settled and tight defence. If that happens we'll be fine with the tactics and personnel we've got in my opinion.
But that is hard, and we still have a little way to go in some of those areas. Tonight will be a good indicator of how we can perform against the majority of teams at home. I think Sunderland are underated, and it will be a hard game.
Right now we need to stick together and do our bit. Over the whole season, I think we will be better than Bolton, Fulham and WBA, who sounded like they were poor defensively and failed to create much last night. 4th from bottom would be brilliant this season, and give us the chance to build again.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Oct 29, 2008 14:32:53 GMT
OldStokie, although I have utmost repect for you and always enjoy reading your posts/threads...on this occasion I am afraid that I beg to differ from you regarding TP... After 23 years In The Wilderness...we have now reached The Promised Land...after 23 years of bread and water..we are now able to taste a little smoked-salmon and lobster.. and remember it is TP who has taken us into this culinary metaphor.. Whilst it is true that Mr Coates paid the train-fair (returns, unfortunately ) can't we just enjoy the experience whilst it lasts..? It's allright for you OldStokie..flying off to 5 star Hotels in Portugal..but try to think of those you are leaving behind..surrounded by gritters, sleet and a galing Anti-Pulis wind..whilst you're sipping G & T's on the balcony soaking up the sun.. Go on OldStokie..all we are saying is..give Tone a chance..
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2008 14:43:14 GMT
Is it just me who thought WhyDelilah had it spot on first time round?
Man City have more quality throughout their squad, have greater resources, and were at home. Their results against Wigan and Newcastle (both of whom have are established Premier League sides who have more quality in their team than we do) came away from home.
We were wasteful in our chances and gave the ball away far too much on Sunday, and our defence was all over the place. But first and foremost we went to a better team's back yard and they turned us over. It's to be expected.
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Post by thepremierbanksy on Oct 29, 2008 14:51:44 GMT
Exactly, RVD. We were all optimistic that we could beat them as City are pretty tempremental this season and have failed to show up for a few games, but on song they are a formidable side. There was a thread on here pondering whether it'd be our first tonking, and it turned out that way. The movement in their squad is fantastic (and was last season too) - i think that's more to do with stephen ireland and elano than robinho - and was always likely to carve us open on a number of occasions.
Anyway the city result isn't really the crux of this thread
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 29, 2008 14:53:28 GMT
I don't think any manager gets a free pass do they? If we were adrift come January I could see plenty of merit in getting rid and letting a new man build for the championship. Pulis would leave with my tongue firmly wedged up his arse but as well as being a funny old game saint, it's also a brutal one.
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Post by RAF on Oct 29, 2008 14:53:15 GMT
No he wasn't spot on first time at all.
But you nearly were.
That's more like it!
H
Shame you wrote that though. Are we then to expect to get beaten by every team away who has more quality than us?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2008 14:56:45 GMT
No he wasn't spot on first time at all. But you nearly were. That's more like it! H I'm being thick again H, so can you clear this one up for me? Were you expecting this season to be anything other than a struggle? I don't understand why people seem to think that the superior resources of the established clubs don't come into it?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2008 15:00:06 GMT
RBD, give up now mate, I did a long time ago.
Bang your head against a wall for long enough and it starts to hurt.
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Post by RAF on Oct 29, 2008 15:00:36 GMT
I was expecting a struggle personally.
I was also expecting some spirit, from our players aswell as our fans. Expecting to lose away to all teams with more quality than us just defeats any object in actually either playing the game, or going to watch it in my mind.
I wouldn't go to a match if I didn't think there was a chance of something.
H
No you didn't , drama queen!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2008 15:03:41 GMT
Struggled - tick Spirt from team - tick Sprit from fans - tick
Where's the problem?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2008 15:04:02 GMT
There's always a chance, everyone goes in hope more than expectation. But we've got to be realistic and expect to get a few tonkings from the superior teams.
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Post by RAF on Oct 29, 2008 15:10:02 GMT
Struggled - Twatted Spirit from Team - Questionable ( although understandable) Spirit from Fans -
With spirit like that from our fans, you just have to hope it doesn't eventually rub off on the players.
Realism is fine. Gutless capitulation to teams with more quality than us is unacceptable.
H
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2008 15:12:59 GMT
.……we are the loudest bloody fans in the premier league for gods sake……FACT
Spirit from players – was the spirit against Villa not plain to see? How about Liverpool away? How about the spirit to fight back against Everton before eventually losing? Spirit against Spurs? We’re hardly turning in Derby-esque displays.
**repeatedly bangs head against wall**
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2008 15:13:18 GMT
Struggled - Twatted Spirit from Team - Questionable ( although understandable) Spirit from Fans - With spirit like that from our fans, you just have to hope it doesn't eventually rub off on the players. Realism is fine. Gutless capitulation to teams with more quality than us is unacceptable. H I don't agree that we gutlessly capitulated though. We just weren't very good. We still plugged away, we created far more chances that I expected us to. They were (and are) just much better. And it's not a question of a "lack of spirit" on my part to suggest a few tonkings in this league are virtually inevitable. It's just common sense.
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Post by RAF on Oct 29, 2008 15:19:46 GMT
You aren't too bright WD are you? I'll spell it out for you, then you can go and have your break down.
I'm not questioning how loud our fans are, or their spirit in general. I'm questioning some peoples attitudes on here that find it acceptable to expect us to lose to teams like Man City, because they have better players. It's a good job our players don't think like that, or we would have had more hidings. We are talking about the Man City game no other.
RVD, I wasn't inferring that our team gutlessly capitulated. I'm inferring that the attitude of expecting to lose to teams like Man City because they have better players is gutless capitulation. Especially when it's not like they are beating allcomers every week.
H
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2008 15:23:01 GMT
You aren't too bright WD are you? I'll spell it out for you, then you can go and have your break down. I'm not questioning how loud our fans are. I'm questioning some peoples attitudes on here that find it acceptable to expect us to lose to teams like Man City, because they have better players. It's a good job our players don't think like that, or we would have had more hidings. We are talking about the Man City game no other. RVD, I wasn't inferring that our team gutlessly capitulated. I'm inferring that the attitude of expecting to lose to teams like Man City is gutless capitulation. H I think the team for the most part so far has put up a decent fight and hasn't played like a team expecting to get tonked. As a fan, it's totally realistic, rather than gutless, to expect a team of our standing in this league to get a few batterings. It's just common sense. Expectations on here amongst a fair few (and I'm not saying you're one of them) are totally ridiculous.
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Post by Beardy200 on Oct 29, 2008 15:26:35 GMT
No he wasn't spot on first time at all. But you nearly were. That's more like it! H Shame you wrote that though. Are we then to expect to get beaten by every team away who has more quality than us?Yes - they have better quality and we're away - so expecting to get beaten would seem pretty reasonable to me. However expecting doesn't mean 100% its just a likely probability. If i had a coin that for some reason landed on heads 80% of the time. Guess what i'd predict heads 'every time' but obviously i'm still allowed to be delighted when the 20% tails comes up. For the same probability argument if we played Man City and Liverpool 100 times each and used the same tactics i truly believe we'd end up with more points playing as we did against Man City than how we did against Liverpool.
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Post by RAF on Oct 29, 2008 15:29:46 GMT
You see for this season only I actually don't have any expectations because I seriously don't know what to expect. I won't however accept the one line excuse that we lost to a team who had spent shitloads , just because they have spent shitloads. Otherwise our great win over Villa, or great draw with Liverpool seem less as a great win and draw and more of a fluke. Some might say that the Liverpool game was a fluke of sorts. Personally I put our loss to Man City down to several factors, them having a better more expensive team granted, but our players being played out of position and poor tactics, poor defending along with a poor refereeing display.
H
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2008 15:32:11 GMT
Yeah I’m really not that bright RAF.
We’ve been discussing the Man City game for most of the day and you are telling every man and his dog that we should ignore the fact that Man City have spent tens of millions (probably into hundreds) of millions of pounds over the past couple of seasons, we should ignore all the world class players they have in their team and that we should be over-critical of our team for going their, giving it a good go and losing 3-0.
The bottom line is, we didn’t stick 10 men behind the ball, we gave it a decent go and created chances but the difference is they took theirs and we didn’t, that’s the difference in class.
I’ve never once said we should go into games and expect to lose (well, maybe I’ve said expect nothing from games against the top 4 and anything else is a bonus) but in general I have expectations of taking something from most games.
The fact is though, it’s not negative to say we lost to Man City because they had more quality than us. It’s being realistic, not negative……..I can only assume you do not know the difference.
You are correct though, I am obviously not bright and you are the intellectual one.
You continue to slate Tone and the players though, you seem hell-bent on doing so.
WD
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