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Post by thornestein on May 5, 2024 8:40:35 GMT
If he’s available to us at 4 million that makes total sense. He’s been very good of late. again you can’t blow what is probably half our budget on one player , never mind his wages . There’s more important positions to be filled first anyway
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Post by andystokey on May 5, 2024 8:41:50 GMT
Does coaching really not make any difference to players in your world? I mean it does but I’d get rid of him too for the same reasons. They all have so much too prove. There’s 3 players I’d be sad to leave. I’d be a bit miffed if Dublin left. After that none of the rest mean anything to me really. There’s a lot of work to be done. You said evidence over a season matters not the last 3 games. We have the 11th best defence in the championship over 46 games and only 5 teame have kept more clean sheets. 9 of the 14 clean sheets we have kept are since SS arrived. www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/championship/best-defence.html
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Hoever
May 5, 2024 8:42:08 GMT
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Post by lordb on May 5, 2024 8:42:08 GMT
That seems like reasonable doubt thought the changes were for 2025? yeah they start fully in 2025 , but a mixture of both next year from what i read In which case then the likes of Hoever and rumoured loans for Coadey, Souttar carry more weight
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Post by collo68 on May 5, 2024 8:44:16 GMT
There is no way we would sign him for a big fee when we have two right backs already and no left backs. We had an unbalanced squad this year so pretty sure we won’t make the same mistake
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Post by lordb on May 5, 2024 8:44:37 GMT
I mean it does but I’d get rid of him too for the same reasons. They all have so much too prove. There’s 3 players I’d be sad to leave. I’d be a bit miffed if Dublin left. After that none of the rest mean anything to me really. There’s a lot of work to be done. You said evidence over a season matters not the last 3 games. We have the 11th best defence in the championship over 46 games and only 5 teame have kept more clean sheets. 9 of the 14 clean sheets we have kept are since SS arrived. www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/championship/best-defence.htmlIt's almost like actual facts prove the 'defence has been shit over the season' argument completely wrong
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Post by collo68 on May 5, 2024 8:45:57 GMT
It's almost like actual facts prove the 'defence has been shit over the season' argument completely wrong It’s the chances we have missed that have cost us the most this season
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Hoever
May 5, 2024 8:49:50 GMT
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Post by andystokey on May 5, 2024 8:49:50 GMT
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Hoever
May 5, 2024 8:55:03 GMT
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Post by lordb on May 5, 2024 8:55:03 GMT
It's almost like actual facts prove the 'defence has been shit over the season' argument completely wrong It’s the chances we have missed that have cost us the most this season Absolutely and more so under Schumacher, we have more shots on goal now especially at home but haven't been scoring until the last 3 home games
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Hoever
May 5, 2024 9:00:35 GMT
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Post by wilcopotter on May 5, 2024 9:00:35 GMT
He’s a good young player, not the best at defending, but on the offensive he’s mint, but to compromise the budget to improve the team in general I think would be a bit foolish, right back is not our greatest priority at the moment imo. Get him on loan or under the right terms, go for it.
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Hoever
May 5, 2024 9:02:42 GMT
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Post by wilcopotter on May 5, 2024 9:02:42 GMT
It’s the chances we have missed that have cost us the most this season Absolutely and more so under Schumacher, we have more shots on goal now especially at home but haven't been scoring until the last 3 home games The last 3 games is a trend and trends have to start somewhere, it’s the time it’s started that is disappointing, but at least it happened and we’re not hosting Mansfield next season.
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Hoever
May 5, 2024 9:05:44 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 5, 2024 9:05:44 GMT
I mean it does but I’d get rid of him too for the same reasons. They all have so much too prove. There’s 3 players I’d be sad to leave. I’d be a bit miffed if Dublin left. After that none of the rest mean anything to me really. There’s a lot of work to be done. You said evidence over a season matters not the last 3 games. We have the 11th best defence in the championship over 46 games and only 5 teame have kept more clean sheets. 9 of the 14 clean sheets we have kept are since SS arrived. www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/championship/best-defence.htmlIndeed and we’ve been lucky that mistakes haven’t been punished. The defence have generally muddled through and somehow Rose and McNally worked despite both of them gifting the oppo a chance a game. I’m not cool with that.
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Hoever
May 5, 2024 9:16:48 GMT
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on May 5, 2024 9:16:48 GMT
Blows hot and cold to much to pay big money..... If the price is right, he could be a decent addition!!! It's time to develop Junior now! Don't want Hoever as I'm sure Junior already is a better defender. We need another left back though! Agreed, but we've still got to fill the hole when Hoever goes, as we can't rely on junior all season..... And I'm not sure a young raw understudy would be the right answer, as junior is still a bit raw in the championship himself!!!
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Hoever
May 5, 2024 9:25:34 GMT
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Post by andystokey on May 5, 2024 9:25:34 GMT
Indeed and we’ve been lucky that mistakes haven’t been punished. The defence have generally muddled through and somehow Rose and McNally worked despite both of them gifting the oppo a chance a game. I’m not cool with that. We aren't great, or weren't. 11th isn't good enough for a play off spot but it's not a car crash. We are a CB and a LB away from a decent four.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 5, 2024 9:31:16 GMT
Indeed and we’ve been lucky that mistakes haven’t been punished. The defence have generally muddled through and somehow Rose and McNally worked despite both of them gifting the oppo a chance a game. I’m not cool with that. We aren't great, or weren't. 11th isn't good enough for a play off spot but it's not a car crash. We are a CB and a LB away from a decent four. We need 2 CBs. Wilmot has shown for us he’s not good enough. When Watford got promoted he was back up. That’s his role at this level if you want to leave the division the right way. I’d sell him tbh because I think he’s awful and Rose is marginally better. But I don’t think any of the centre halves we’ve had this season are better than back up. Certainly wouldn’t want McNally back.
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Post by mallorcanstokie on May 5, 2024 9:50:35 GMT
We aren't great, or weren't. 11th isn't good enough for a play off spot but it's not a car crash. We are a CB and a LB away from a decent four. We need 2 CBs. Wilmot has shown for us he’s not good enough. When Watford got promoted he was back up. That’s his role at this level if you want to leave the division the right way. I’d sell him tbh because I think he’s awful and Rose is marginally better. But I don’t think any of the centre halves we’ve had this season are better than back up. Certainly wouldn’t want McNally back. Our defence has been a mistake waiting to happen all season, it’s obvious we need a strong leader, organizer at the back, but it not the defenses fault we’ve been hovering around the bottom, IF we’d had a goal scorer or at least taken a few of the many chances missed we would have been a comfortable mid table position… (still not good enough by the way..)
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Hoever
May 5, 2024 9:53:20 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 5, 2024 9:53:20 GMT
We need 2 CBs. Wilmot has shown for us he’s not good enough. When Watford got promoted he was back up. That’s his role at this level if you want to leave the division the right way. I’d sell him tbh because I think he’s awful and Rose is marginally better. But I don’t think any of the centre halves we’ve had this season are better than back up. Certainly wouldn’t want McNally back. Our defence has been a mistake waiting to happen all season, it’s obvious we need a strong leader, organizer at the back, but it not the defenses fault we’ve been hovering around the bottom, IF we’d had a goal scorer or at least taken a few of the many chances missed we would have been a comfortable mid table position… (still not good enough by the way..) It’s all of their faults. The attackers we have are generally much better players too and just need to used correctly. The defence are calamities. We definitely need a striker but either side we’re good. Ideally I think I want a new back 4. But ok with Junior at right back
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on May 5, 2024 11:35:54 GMT
Oh yes he’s a shit defender isn’t he? As an integral member of the defence that hasn’t conceded a goal in over FIVE hours must make him really shit? You really do talk through your arse most of the time. He has also been part of a defence leaking goals for fun in periods, so this statement could really go all ways. A season consists of 46 league games not 3. Crucially though Rob, the last three. Maybe this means that the Head Coach isn’t as naive as some suggest and given the necessary time on the training ground has started to gel the defence into some sort of cohesive unit. Just a thought.
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Hoever
May 5, 2024 11:42:45 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 5, 2024 11:42:45 GMT
He has also been part of a defence leaking goals for fun in periods, so this statement could really go all ways. A season consists of 46 league games not 3. Crucially though Rob, the last three. Maybe this means that the Head Coach isn’t as naive as some suggest and given the necessary time on the training ground has started to gel the defence into some sort of cohesive unit. Just a thought. The defence look the same as they ever did. Iversen and Thompson have been the biggest two things to steady the ship.
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on May 5, 2024 11:53:42 GMT
Crucially though Rob, the last three. Maybe this means that the Head Coach isn’t as naive as some suggest and given the necessary time on the training ground has started to gel the defence into some sort of cohesive unit. Just a thought. The defence look the same as they ever did. Iversen and Thompson have been the biggest two things to steady the ship. But the problem is that yet again you’re ignoring the facts. In 23 home games we’ve conceded a total of 27 goals, not that bad in itself but importantly 14 of those goals were conceded in 4 catastrophic games (Leicester, Norwich, Hull and Blackburn). Admittedly these were massive off days but in the other 19 home games we’ve conceded a miserly 13 goals, suggesting the defence hasn’t been quite as bad as you make out and points the finger firmly in the direction of the forward and creative players.
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Hoever
May 5, 2024 11:56:09 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 5, 2024 11:56:09 GMT
The defence look the same as they ever did. Iversen and Thompson have been the biggest two things to steady the ship. But the problem is that yet again you’re ignoring the facts. In 23 home games we’ve conceded a total of 27 goals, not that bad in itself but importantly 14 of those goals were conceded in 4 catastrophic games (Leicester, Norwich, Hull and Blackburn). Admittedly these were massive off days but in the other 19 home games we’ve conceded a miserly 13 goals, suggesting the defence hasn’t been quite as bad as you make out and points the finger firmly in the direction of the forward and creative players. I’m not ignoring them at all. I just use my eyes and my eyes like most others have shown a shaky defence that most want the majority of them replacing.
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Hoever
May 5, 2024 11:58:42 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 5, 2024 11:58:42 GMT
The defence look the same as they ever did. Iversen and Thompson have been the biggest two things to steady the ship. But the problem is that yet again you’re ignoring the facts. In 23 home games we’ve conceded a total of 27 goals, not that bad in itself but importantly 14 of those goals were conceded in 4 catastrophic games (Leicester, Norwich, Hull and Blackburn). Admittedly these were massive off days but in the other 19 home games we’ve conceded a miserly 13 goals, suggesting the defence hasn’t been quite as bad as you make out and points the finger firmly in the direction of the forward and creative players. Also we’ve set up awfully defensively at home to try and draw for most of the season. So the stats should have an asterix by them. The set up was to be tight and draw or Nick a 1-0 for most of the season. And they still looked shaky as anything for most of that.
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Hoever
May 5, 2024 12:46:25 GMT
Post by MilanStokie on May 5, 2024 12:46:25 GMT
It will simply come down to; 1) How much Hoever would actually cost 2) How much SS likes him I think the 2nd statement, the answer is "A lot" and therefore I don't think it will matter what options we have there, if the manager likes and wants Hoever, and is attainable, he will go for him. The problem is, I think Hoever will cost £3-4m and have sizeable wages to tackle, which casts a lot of doubts. Shame though I think he would be a fantastic signing permanently and 1 we might regret not getting when he turns out to be better than a lot of critics realise. Another problem could be is that Schumacher is not the manager. A few games ago I would have agreed, but the strong finished has probably guaranteed him at least the summer window and season start. Since my last posts on Hoever, I am even more convinced he will be 1 of our top targets and rightly so. People need to get off this "can't defend" bollocks, get out of the corners you are backed into and realise he has some serious potential.
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Hoever
May 5, 2024 12:57:22 GMT
Post by MilanStokie on May 5, 2024 12:57:22 GMT
If he’s available to us at 4 million that makes total sense. He’s been very good of late. again you can’t blow what is probably half our budget on one player , never mind his wages . There’s more important positions to be filled first anyway But you are just making a blind assumption on what our budget is... With Thompson being extended, Gooch and Junior being capable of covering LB, then signing Hoever could make sense with the addition of just 1 LB. We probably need to sign 2 good/decent LBs if not and considering we have struggled to find 1 good LB in 3 decades, not sure where we are finding 2 this summer... We also have 6 new loan slots, why is everyone panicking about how much cash we have to spend on permanent transfers? You could argue we need: 1x GK (Johansson) 1x RB (Hoever) 1x LB (2 if no Hoever) - Loan? 2x CB (1 loan, 1 perm) 1x CM (Cundle) 1x Striker (loan?) 2x Winger/Forward (2 Loans) So 8-9 players needed as a minimum, theoretically only 2-3 NEED to be permanent.
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Hoever
May 5, 2024 14:49:06 GMT
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Post by baconburger on May 5, 2024 14:49:06 GMT
I think we should sign him even if it's up to £4m, there is no chance we sign a RB as good as him in the position we are currently in. Tchamadeu is still young and would benefit from not being relied on week in week out. He could also be used at LB. The relationship Hoever already has with the club and players can also a massive positive. you can’t blow probably half our budget on one player , and that’s not considering his massive wage Not sure what figure you’re working from. Can’t see anyone suggesting we spend £4M+ on Hoever, at circa £2M he’s a no brainer and if that’s half our transfer budget prepare for another season of struggle. The talk is always big but this seasons competitive budget resulted in a negative net spend and wage bill of as low as 17th in the league according to some reports. Who exactly are we trying to compete with?
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Post by lordb on May 5, 2024 14:51:54 GMT
you can’t blow probably half our budget on one player , and that’s not considering his massive wage Not sure what figure you’re working from. Can’t see anyone suggesting we spend £4M+ on Hoever, at circa £2M he’s a no brainer and if that’s half our transfer budget prepare for another season of struggle. The talk is always big but this seasons competitive budget resulted in a negative net spend and wage bill of as low as 17th in the league according to some reports. Who exactly are we trying to compete with? FFP or rather ensuring we don't breach it Hoever fee would be nearer £4m because otherwise Wolves would have to write off as a loss re FFP
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Post by baconburger on May 5, 2024 15:01:17 GMT
Not sure what figure you’re working from. Can’t see anyone suggesting we spend £4M+ on Hoever, at circa £2M he’s a no brainer and if that’s half our transfer budget prepare for another season of struggle. The talk is always big but this seasons competitive budget resulted in a negative net spend and wage bill of as low as 17th in the league according to some reports. Who exactly are we trying to compete with? FFP or rather ensuring we don't breach it Hoever fee would be nearer £4m because otherwise Wolves would have to write off as a loss re FFP They’ve wrote off far bigger losses. Both Wolves and the player would have to compromise undoubtedly but they’re both going to have to eventually anyhow. Does he want to take his chances elsewhere or come to a club he’s virtually guaranteed playing time and knows he’s valued by the club management at least if not some of its knuckle dragging fans. If you were advising him on career progress you’d be telling him it’s a no brainer a step on the road to another crack at being a premier league player.
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Hoever
May 5, 2024 17:05:06 GMT
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Post by lordb on May 5, 2024 17:05:06 GMT
FFP or rather ensuring we don't breach it Hoever fee would be nearer £4m because otherwise Wolves would have to write off as a loss re FFP They’ve wrote off far bigger losses. Both Wolves and the player would have to compromise undoubtedly but they’re both going to have to eventually anyhow. Does he want to take his chances elsewhere or come to a club he’s virtually guaranteed playing time and knows he’s valued by the club management at least if not some of its knuckle dragging fans. If you were advising him on career progress you’d be telling him it’s a no brainer a step on the road to another crack at being a premier league player. Yes definitely best for him It's up to Wolves If they are happy to write off as a loss and take the FFP hit then great if they aren't then he's going to cost us a fair bit or they just loan him or sell him to someone else I hope we sign him
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Hoever
May 5, 2024 17:24:50 GMT
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Post by baconburger on May 5, 2024 17:24:50 GMT
They’ve wrote off far bigger losses. Both Wolves and the player would have to compromise undoubtedly but they’re both going to have to eventually anyhow. Does he want to take his chances elsewhere or come to a club he’s virtually guaranteed playing time and knows he’s valued by the club management at least if not some of its knuckle dragging fans. If you were advising him on career progress you’d be telling him it’s a no brainer a step on the road to another crack at being a premier league player. Yes definitely best for him It's up to Wolves If they are happy to write off as a loss and take the FFP hit then great if they aren't then he's going to cost us a fair bit or they just loan him or sell him to someone else I hope we sign him I think we probably know a lot more about him than anyone else Wolves included. On the face of it he’s a high cost flop but we’ve seen the minute details. Technically and athletically excellent, prone to major fuck ups and lapses of concentration. We are best placed to develop his talent and progress him to a point where he gets another crack at the big time or he can sit on his £40,000 a week for another couple of years and go home. Choice is yours kid.
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Hoever
May 5, 2024 17:27:05 GMT
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Post by lordb on May 5, 2024 17:27:05 GMT
Yes definitely best for him It's up to Wolves If they are happy to write off as a loss and take the FFP hit then great if they aren't then he's going to cost us a fair bit or they just loan him or sell him to someone else I hope we sign him I think we probably know a lot more about him than anyone else Wolves included. On the face of it he’s a high cost flop but we’ve seen the minute details. Technically and athletically excellent, prone to major fuck ups and lapses of concentration. We are best placed to develop his talent and progress him to a point where he gets another crack at the big time or he can sit on his £40,000 a week for another couple of years and go home. Choice is yours kid. Only if Wolves agree
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Post by baconburger on May 5, 2024 17:37:58 GMT
I think we probably know a lot more about him than anyone else Wolves included. On the face of it he’s a high cost flop but we’ve seen the minute details. Technically and athletically excellent, prone to major fuck ups and lapses of concentration. We are best placed to develop his talent and progress him to a point where he gets another crack at the big time or he can sit on his £40,000 a week for another couple of years and go home. Choice is yours kid. Only if Wolves agree What’s their exposure on Cundle? If he’s homegrown the profit on him would cancel out the loss on Hoever and reduce their wage bill for two players that aren’t making their matchday squad anytime soon. There’s more scope than you’re seeing.
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