|
Post by foxysgloves on Apr 13, 2024 11:53:06 GMT
So you totally absolve players and managers who are paid eye watering amounts to perform once or sometimes twice a week. And have largely failed. Can’t agree with that. Players are picked by sub standard managers. Sub standard managers are employed by the man at the top. If one or two were outliers in amongst a sea of achievement I'd agree. We've seen a succession of underachievement which can only point to one thing. The man at the top is no good at his job. Football is played on the pitch not in the boardroom. For all our failings at the top I can’t forgive the players for some of their abject performances this season. Stealing a living and mugging the supporters of hard earned cash.
|
|
|
Post by theonlooker on Apr 13, 2024 11:55:18 GMT
Players are picked by sub standard managers. Sub standard managers are employed by the man at the top. If one or two were outliers in amongst a sea of achievement I'd agree. We've seen a succession of underachievement which can only point to one thing. The man at the top is no good at his job. Football is played on the pitch not in the boardroom. For all our failings at the top I can’t forgive the players for some of their abject performances this season. Stealing a living and mugging the supporters of hard earned cash. I think it would help if we had a plan, but listening to the man at meet the supporter events just confirms to me that there is none.
|
|
|
Post by datguy on Apr 13, 2024 11:56:08 GMT
The one constant, still being let off by a number of Stokies. "But what about 2008-17"? Er, Wigan achieved more. Eh? So what? John Coates (and the Coates' in general) are certainly the one constant - and they are to blame, indeed. I don't even know how we go about solving the clusterfuck they've left the club in. From blind loyalty to John's mate down the pub - they clearly can't be trusted with the decision making. But let's not for one minute suggest 2008-2017 wasn't an incredible achievement for the football club (and certainly the city). And respectfully - was DUCK Magazine not essentially a hagiographical portrayal of all things Stoke? And rightfully so. It was bloody brilliant supporting SCFC between '07 and '17. (I think it was you that did DUCK, sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick mate). It's been woeful and depressing but it's only been half as woeful and depressing because of the sheer heights we experienced between 2007 and 2017 (I'd say 2016, personally).
|
|
|
Post by foxysgloves on Apr 13, 2024 11:58:01 GMT
Football is played on the pitch not in the boardroom. For all our failings at the top I can’t forgive the players for some of their abject performances this season. Stealing a living and mugging the supporters of hard earned cash. I think it would help if we had a plan, but listening to the man at meet the supporter events just confirms to me that there is none. I’m not disagreeing that he shoulders huge amounts of responsibility. But saying the players aren’t to blame at all makes no sense to me. Maybe that’s part of the problem. They’re getting away with it while the owners draw the flak.
|
|
|
Post by theonlooker on Apr 13, 2024 12:02:02 GMT
I think it would help if we had a plan, but listening to the man at meet the supporter events just confirms to me that there is none. I’m not disagreeing that he shoulders huge amounts of responsibility. But saying the players aren’t to blame at all makes no sense to me. Maybe that’s part of the problem. They’re getting away with it while the owners draw the flak. The point is though, if we had a cohesive plan in place, you'd appoint better staff and you'd recruit better players. Our plan is to pick a manager and let him pick his mates upstairs, which now seems to have changed to appointing a wet behind the ears club legend as a cheerleader. Like I keep saying, if we'd just had one or two bad seasons amongst several good ones then you could look at a bad squad, or a bad manager as the root cause but it's been a constant stream of underachievement and the only constant is the man at the top. I agree that the squad are underachieving but fix the problem at the top and the rest follows.
|
|
|
Post by foxysgloves on Apr 13, 2024 12:08:13 GMT
I’m not disagreeing that he shoulders huge amounts of responsibility. But saying the players aren’t to blame at all makes no sense to me. Maybe that’s part of the problem. They’re getting away with it while the owners draw the flak. The point is though, if we had a cohesive plan in place, you'd appoint better staff and you'd recruit better players. Our plan is to pick a manager and let him pick his mates upstairs, which now seems to have changed to appointing a wet behind the ears club legend as a cheerleader. Like I keep saying, if we'd just had one or two bad seasons amongst several good ones then you could look at a bad squad, or a bad manager as the root cause but it's been a constant stream of underachievement and the only constant is the man at the top. I agree that the squad are underachieving but fix the problem at the top and the rest follows. I agree but I still don’t agree that absolves highly paid professionals from at least putting in a shift. Which most of our players have this season. How can they not be at least partly responsible? That’s like saying players aren’t responsible when cups and promotions are won. It’s a collective.
|
|
|
Post by theonlooker on Apr 13, 2024 12:10:46 GMT
The point is though, if we had a cohesive plan in place, you'd appoint better staff and you'd recruit better players. Our plan is to pick a manager and let him pick his mates upstairs, which now seems to have changed to appointing a wet behind the ears club legend as a cheerleader. Like I keep saying, if we'd just had one or two bad seasons amongst several good ones then you could look at a bad squad, or a bad manager as the root cause but it's been a constant stream of underachievement and the only constant is the man at the top. I agree that the squad are underachieving but fix the problem at the top and the rest follows. I agree but I still don’t agree that absolves highly paid professionals from at least putting in a shift. Which most of our players have this season. How can they not be at least partly responsible? That’s like saying players aren’t responsible when cups and promotions are won. It’s a collective. So we have another huge turnaround in the squad over the summer with the same people in place. Your confidence in us not being in the same situation next season? Mine? Nil. Yours?
|
|
|
Post by foxysgloves on Apr 13, 2024 12:32:37 GMT
I agree but I still don’t agree that absolves highly paid professionals from at least putting in a shift. Which most of our players have this season. How can they not be at least partly responsible? That’s like saying players aren’t responsible when cups and promotions are won. It’s a collective. So we have another huge turnaround in the squad over the summer with the same people in place. Your confidence in us not being in the same situation next season? Mine? Nil. Yours? I don’t have huge confidence no. But I’d be more confident if we got a decent group of players in. I’m not sure we’re going to see the club sold and tbh who’d buy it? We can change players and management with relative ease. Are we really likely to see the owners sell?
|
|
|
Post by pavel on Apr 13, 2024 12:34:43 GMT
I agree but I still don’t agree that absolves highly paid professionals from at least putting in a shift. Which most of our players have this season. How can they not be at least partly responsible? That’s like saying players aren’t responsible when cups and promotions are won. It’s a collective. So we have another huge turnaround in the squad over the summer with the same people in place. Your confidence in us not being in the same situation next season? Mine? Nil. Yours? By the law of averages they might randomly pick on a winning formula ….eventually so we have to live in hope, more of a fool’s hope in reality though. No I can’t see anything changing.
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Apr 13, 2024 12:57:37 GMT
John Coates. He’s the owner. We’ve been in a mess ever since he took over.
|
|
|
Post by questionable on Apr 13, 2024 13:44:24 GMT
Rest my case;
Bizarrely, a friend of mine, who watches three-games-a-week all over the country, met him in a pub when he was about a year into managing Luton.
“He said to me, `you’d love him John, he’s just immersed in football.’ So he was on our radar from then and I relayed this conversation to Dad (Peter Coates) and to Tony (Scholes)."
|
|
|
Post by frasier37 on Apr 13, 2024 14:26:31 GMT
Years of huge mismanagement from the top
They don't know what they're doing
|
|
|
Post by citynickscfc on Apr 13, 2024 15:10:07 GMT
It’s not all on Schumacher but he has to take some responsibility. The rot set in at the start of the relegation season and there’s plenty that played there part and yes there is one consistent but who’s responsible this season. As a percentage I’d say Neil - 30 Schumacher - 15 Martin - 20 Dublin - 10 The board - 5 The players - 20 The board 5? What the actual fuckwittery is this thread?
|
|
|
Post by slother on Apr 13, 2024 15:28:40 GMT
The family run the club. The family are entirely responsible. The thing is, I followed Stoke since the 90s and this bouncing between the Championship and League 1 was always par for us. We only tasted success because the family lucked out on appointing a manager who had found a "hack" that allowed us a brief period in the Premier League. We couldn't sustain anything once the squad aged and we tried to evolve into an attractive style.
|
|
|
Post by RonnieStokie on Apr 13, 2024 15:37:52 GMT
|
|
|
Post by silverdollar on Apr 14, 2024 7:52:02 GMT
It’s not all on Schumacher but he has to take some responsibility. The rot set in at the start of the relegation season and there’s plenty that played there part and yes there is one consistent but who’s responsible this season. As a percentage I’d say Neil - 30 Schumacher - 15 Martin - 20 Dublin - 10 The board - 5 The players - 20 Where on earth have you fabricated these figures from. Out of thin air I assume.
|
|
|
Post by Glory Hunter on Apr 14, 2024 8:06:13 GMT
It’s not all on Schumacher but he has to take some responsibility. The rot set in at the start of the relegation season and there’s plenty that played there part and yes there is one consistent but who’s responsible this season. As a percentage I’d say Neil - 30 Schumacher - 15 Martin - 20 Dublin - 10 The board - 5 The players - 20 Where on earth have you fabricated these figures from. Out of thin air I assume. Wouldn’t it be a good idea if, just for the 3 final games of the season, we focussed our energy on that, hopefully staying up and then rightfully have this debate in as much detail as everyone wants. for what it’s worth I think we have seized on a handful of very talented players (Burger, Bae, Junior, Manhoef, Hoever) and if we can successfully fill some obvious gaps, may be in a much better place. But for now, let’s get the current job done.
|
|
|
Post by thisisouryear on Apr 14, 2024 8:47:40 GMT
I think it's pretty clear who is to blame for this mess
Jon Coates 100%
|
|
|
Post by cobhamstokey on Apr 14, 2024 10:31:13 GMT
It’s not all on Schumacher but he has to take some responsibility. The rot set in at the start of the relegation season and there’s plenty that played there part and yes there is one consistent but who’s responsible this season. As a percentage I’d say Neil - 30 Schumacher - 15 Martin - 20 Dublin - 10 The board - 5 The players - 20 Where on earth have you fabricated these figures from. Out of thin air I assume. Of course. It’s just an opinion.
|
|
|
Post by StokieDJC on Apr 14, 2024 10:49:45 GMT
Peter Coates is the problem, his seed produced John Coates.
|
|
|
Post by StokieDJC on Apr 14, 2024 10:52:47 GMT
We need get someone like Bill Gates buy the club.
He’d build some barmy state of the art stadium jam packed with technology. Granted it would run on windows 11 so probably crash often but still.
We’d have screens everywhere, kiss cam, proper cheerleaders, Xboxes in every concourse.
Light shows, the team would be built of pure stats created in excel, we wouldn’t even need a manager, just some data entry guys spewing out of PowerPoint presentations to the immaculately crafted squad.
Would be like moneyball but far more technical.
|
|
|
Post by blackpoolred on Apr 15, 2024 22:36:21 GMT
We need get someone like Bill Gates buy the club. He’d build some barmy state of the art stadium jam packed with technology. Granted it would run on windows 11 so probably crash often but still. We’d have screens everywhere, kiss cam, proper cheerleaders, Xboxes in every concourse. Light shows, the team would be built of pure stats created in excel, we wouldn’t even need a manager, just some data entry guys spewing out of PowerPoint presentations to the immaculately crafted squad. Would be like moneyball but far more technical. I like the sound of this, but have we got cheerleaders that could do it on a cold Tuesday night, come to think of it could we find 2 people that want to kiss each other on a cold Tuesday night, might need some WD40 to prize them apart I would also need to take my teeth just in case, wouldn't want to disappoint Bill who sits next to me.
|
|
|
Post by BrummiePotter on Apr 16, 2024 6:35:19 GMT
We need get someone like Bill Gates buy the club. He’d build some barmy state of the art stadium jam packed with technology. Granted it would run on windows 11 so probably crash often but still. We’d have screens everywhere, kiss cam, proper cheerleaders, Xboxes in every concourse. Light shows, the team would be built of pure stats created in excel, we wouldn’t even need a manager, just some data entry guys spewing out of PowerPoint presentations to the immaculately crafted squad. Would be like moneyball but far more technical. I like the sound of this, but have we got cheerleaders that could do it on a cold Tuesday night, come to think of it could we find 2 people that want to kiss each other on a cold Tuesday night, might need some WD40 to prize them apart I would also need to take my teeth just in case, wouldn't want to disappoint Bill who sits next to me. Hopefully we’re not advocating bringing back the City Slickers!! The thought of 15,000 blokes watching a bunch of 13 year old girls in leotards is still one that screams “only Stoke”, but then again it was 40 odd years ago. My personal favourite would be to reintroduce the old ball boy entrance routine. They all ran into the centre circle at the start of the game, gave a wave to the crowd and then split off and each ran to their section of the pitch - just like watching the Red Arrows!!
|
|
|
Post by cobhamstokey on Apr 16, 2024 7:00:24 GMT
It’s not all on Schumacher but he has to take some responsibility. The rot set in at the start of the relegation season and there’s plenty that played there part and yes there is one consistent but who’s responsible this season. As a percentage I’d say Neil - 30 Schumacher - 15 Martin - 20 Dublin - 10 The board - 5 The players - 20 The board 5? What the actual fuckwittery is this thread? Fair enough. So in the same respect they were 100 percent responsible for the 10 years in the PL and reaching the cup final?
|
|
|
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Apr 16, 2024 7:14:52 GMT
I like the sound of this, but have we got cheerleaders that could do it on a cold Tuesday night, come to think of it could we find 2 people that want to kiss each other on a cold Tuesday night, might need some WD40 to prize them apart I would also need to take my teeth just in case, wouldn't want to disappoint Bill who sits next to me. Hopefully we’re not advocating bringing back the City Slickers!! The thought of 15,000 blokes watching a bunch of 13 year old girls in leotards is still one that screams “only Stoke”, but then again it was 40 odd years ago. My personal favourite would be to reintroduce the old ball boy entrance routine. They all ran into the centre circle at the start of the game, gave a wave to the crowd and then split off and each ran to their section of the pitch - just like watching the Red Arrows!! Lots of clubs we played did similar with the cheerleaders that were 'only Stoke' Palace, City and Bradford spring to mind
|
|
|
Post by StokieDJC on Apr 16, 2024 10:53:45 GMT
I like the sound of this, but have we got cheerleaders that could do it on a cold Tuesday night, come to think of it could we find 2 people that want to kiss each other on a cold Tuesday night, might need some WD40 to prize them apart I would also need to take my teeth just in case, wouldn't want to disappoint Bill who sits next to me. Hopefully we’re not advocating bringing back the City Slickers!! The thought of 15,000 blokes watching a bunch of 13 year old girls in leotards is still one that screams “only Stoke”, but then again it was 40 odd years ago. My personal favourite would be to reintroduce the old ball boy entrance routine. They all ran into the centre circle at the start of the game, gave a wave to the crowd and then split off and each ran to their section of the pitch - just like watching the Red Arrows!! Sadly it wasn't 40 years ago, i remember seeing them as a young fan in awe of them! I was about 12. Nothing screamed sick old perv than blokes more than old enough to be their fathers calling them city slappers!
|
|
|
Post by citynickscfc on Apr 16, 2024 13:53:27 GMT
The board 5? What the actual fuckwittery is this thread? Fair enough. So in the same respect they were 100 percent responsible for the 10 years in the PL and reaching the cup final? Yes. Peter coates was the board. He isn't now. I still think we were very lucky that our "process" actually worked. Others have caught up and taken over massively tho, and that's our demise. We didn't really have much of a process, just a manager as head of the entire club, disregarding the youth setup as an external aspect. It all fell down when the managers lost it and recruitment became a massive part of other clubs success (i.e they adopted much more statistically in depth analysis on players and actually coaches worked to develop them). We never did that. And that is also on the owners of the time. That and I don't think John Coates has employed forward thinking/experienced/knowledgeable people in such areas and even if he tries to the entire infrastructure of the club send to remain a 'jobs for the boys' culture.
|
|
|
Post by biddulphchav on Apr 16, 2024 13:59:43 GMT
Ultimately it’s Coates and the Board that the buck stops with.
Saying that, there’s plenty of fans who’ve agreed with the decisions that have been made at the time. Good example is those who wanted Neil in and MoN out, only to harp on about what a shite appointment it turned out to be and how the board are clueless. One of the problems JC has from where I sit is he’s a people pleaser, he wants the fans on side (which is good) but makes some bad calls as a result.
Just my view, so keep your hair on!
|
|
|
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Apr 16, 2024 14:07:27 GMT
Ultimately it’s Coates and the Board that the buck stops with. Saying that, there’s plenty of fans who’ve agreed with the decisions that have been made at the time. Good example is those who wanted Neil in and MoN out, only to harp on about what a shite appointment it turned out to be and how the board are clueless. One of the problems JC has from where I sit is he’s a people pleaser, he wants the fans on side (which is good) but makes some bad calls as a result. Just my view, so keep your hair on! Did folk on here actual want Neil? What baffled me was the Sunderland fans getting upset.
|
|
|
Post by biddulphchav on Apr 16, 2024 14:17:17 GMT
Ultimately it’s Coates and the Board that the buck stops with. Saying that, there’s plenty of fans who’ve agreed with the decisions that have been made at the time. Good example is those who wanted Neil in and MoN out, only to harp on about what a shite appointment it turned out to be and how the board are clueless. One of the problems JC has from where I sit is he’s a people pleaser, he wants the fans on side (which is good) but makes some bad calls as a result. Just my view, so keep your hair on! Did folk on here actual want Neil? What baffled me was the Sunderland fans getting upset. There were loads on here who felt it was the right call and we’re all excited by the change, definitely. I didn’t think it was and still think we should have kept MON, he’s been the best of the bunch since we came down, by far. Sure the football was shit, but we didn’t look like getting relegated. Same with Rowett, everyone wanted him out, and look what we ended up with? Not saying Rowett was the new Guardiola but as a club we were a basket case at the time, don’t think anyone could have sorted us out that season.
|
|