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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 21, 2024 12:54:48 GMT
Sorry, I still don’t understand the link. I can fully understand people objecting to all religious messaging in public if that is what you think. France has very strict rules on religious symbols for example. What I object to is people linking a religious quote about sinners at a train station to people receiving death threats. Religious radicals are problematic for multiple religions. Netanyahu is a good example. As are Christian fundamentalists in the US. There is lots of evidence of Hindu and Sikh extremism too. There are indeed lots of examples of Islamic fundamentalism also. But that is so, so, so far removed from a message at a train station during a religious festival. So no example of another person having to go into hiding for saying or showing something about another religion? Thought so. How many other religions tell us in the UK that if we say the wrong thing or show the wrong thing we'll come for you and your family? Your obvious confusion is not understanding the detail of the message and it appearing on a major transport hub notice board. As I said happy this or that from any religion is fine and welcomed in our society. But they can all do one with religious and ideological clap trap. The question you should be asking is why has this message gone further than the usual. Look into that and you may resolve your confusion. I don’t think anyone has had to go into hiding because of this train station message. You will of course enlighten me if I am wrong.
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Post by foster on Mar 21, 2024 13:21:39 GMT
Absolutely. Who are these snowflakes who want to complain about everything even though it doesn’t make the slightest bit of difference to their lives? You say it doesn't make a difference to people's lives, but I was at Kings Cross on the day in question and I got so confused by this message that I missed my 13:57 train to Mecca. State of this country. Didn't mecca it then. Or are you mecca'n this up. Bye
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Mar 21, 2024 13:55:43 GMT
So no example of another person having to go into hiding for saying or showing something about another religion? Thought so. How many other religions tell us in the UK that if we say the wrong thing or show the wrong thing we'll come for you and your family? Your obvious confusion is not understanding the detail of the message and it appearing on a major transport hub notice board. As I said happy this or that from any religion is fine and welcomed in our society. But they can all do one with religious and ideological clap trap. The question you should be asking is why has this message gone further than the usual. Look into that and you may resolve your confusion. I don’t think anyone has had to go into hiding because of this train station message. You will of course enlighten me if I am wrong. I very much doubt its put anyone into hiding no. As I said, the real question is why has this message gone that step further than happy Eid or xmas. Who's in charge of transport for London. Oh yeah the baiter in chief. Not happy with renaming stations to the tune of 6m quid at tax payers expense, he needs to do a bit more baiting. And to be fair to him he's getting rather good at it. Now I may be wrong about the Khan involvement but I fucking doubt it 😆
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Post by wannabee on Mar 21, 2024 14:54:46 GMT
A rather farcical and hypocritical position Humanists who reject the concept of God object to a Specific Religion having an alternative viewpoint..... where is the self awareness? In common with many Humanists I'm Agnostic but I'm certainly not Humanist What do you mean a “specific religion” and “an alternative viewpoint”? Humanists would generally object to any public religious messaging wouldn’t they It's not hard really, as you say Humanists would object to all religious messaging. I don't recall them objecting when other religious messaging was displayed at Kings Cross.... unless you know different
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Mar 21, 2024 14:57:13 GMT
What do you mean a “specific religion” and “an alternative viewpoint”? Humanists would generally object to any public religious messaging wouldn’t they It's not hard really, as you say Humanists would object to all religious messaging. I don't recall them objecting when other religious messaging was displayed at Kings Cross.... unless you know different
What other religious messaging?
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Post by wannabee on Mar 21, 2024 15:10:35 GMT
Kings Cross Station previously displayed celebratory messages during Easter, Christmas, Passover and Diwali without complaints It seems only Muslim Holy Festivals are what people object to Out of interest were those messages about sinners . I suspect it's the message that's caused the issue not the religion. I have no idea what the other messages were, personally if I see Religious Messaging or other nutters on the street pushing their particular brand of Bullshit I just avoid and ignore them I don't doubt some had an issue with the specific message, glancing through various reports the reasons for objecting are many and varied. The only Public Figure I have seen commenting is Farage, no surprise there, and he was apparently outraged, no surprise there either. The only direct quote from Nige I've seen is "Aren’t we supposed to be a Christian country?" This would suggest Nige favours only Christian messaging, but as I said before I don't recall previous objections to Passover and Diwali messaging.... maybe I missed it. www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1879281/network-rail-statement-islamic-message
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Post by wannabee on Mar 21, 2024 15:16:14 GMT
It's not hard really, as you say Humanists would object to all religious messaging. I don't recall them objecting when other religious messaging was displayed at Kings Cross.... unless you know different
What other religious messaging? The station’s owners also celebrate other religious festivals including Easter, Christmas, Passover and Diwali. A Network Rail spokesman said: “King’s Cross station is made up of a diverse and multi-cultural workforce and at times of religious significance, messages such as these are displayed to celebrate the station's diversity and inclusivity" www.standard.co.uk/news/london/king-cross-bosses-row-islamic-customer-display-board-message-london-b1146357.html
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 21, 2024 15:23:44 GMT
What do you mean a “specific religion” and “an alternative viewpoint”? Humanists would generally object to any public religious messaging wouldn’t they It's not hard really, as you say Humanists would object to all religious messaging. I don't recall them objecting when other religious messaging was displayed at Kings Cross.... unless you know different
Are you serious? Their entire raison d'etre is to oppose religious influence in public life. They've recently come out strongly against a London school merger which would result in a non-faith school becoming CofE, argued against the statutory appointment of religious representatives in the House of Lords, raised concerns with the UN about illegal ultra-orthodox Jewish schools in the UK.. That's just going back a month or so. They've been campaigning against things like mandatory Christian worship in schools for decades - actually over a hundred years since they've been around. And if you must have an example exactly analogous to the King's Cross message, in 2008 they complained to the Advertising Standards Authority about Christian messages on buses which promised damnation for sinners. And as it happens just yesterday their chief exec posted this very considered and balanced tweet about the response and reporting of it. Of all the people to accuse of inconsistency over this the Humanists are just about the last in the queue.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Mar 21, 2024 15:27:47 GMT
Nobody is complaining about happy what fucking ever in terms of religious holidays. Its the repent bollox that people are objecting to. Network rail themselves admit they don't know why it strayed from the usual message they do every bloody year 🙄
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 21, 2024 15:35:13 GMT
I don’t think anyone has had to go into hiding because of this train station message. You will of course enlighten me if I am wrong. I very much doubt its put anyone into hiding no. As I said, the real question is why has this message gone that step further than happy Eid or xmas. Who's in charge of transport for London. Oh yeah the baiter in chief. Not happy with renaming stations to the tune of 6m quid at tax payers expense, he needs to do a bit more baiting. And to be fair to him he's getting rather good at it. Now I may be wrong about the Khan involvement but I fucking doubt it 😆 What has Sadiq Khan got to do with Network Rail!? Why have you mentioned him?
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Post by wannabee on Mar 21, 2024 15:36:32 GMT
It's not hard really, as you say Humanists would object to all religious messaging. I don't recall them objecting when other religious messaging was displayed at Kings Cross.... unless you know different
Are you serious? Their entire raison d'etre is to oppose religious influence in public life. They've recently come out strongly against a London school merger which would result in a non-faith school becoming CofE, argued against the statutory appointment of religious representatives in the House of Lords, raised concerns with the UN about illegal ultra-orthodox Jewish schools in the UK.. That's just going back a month or so. They've been campaigning against things like mandatory Christian worship in schools for decades - actually over a hundred years since they've been around. And if you must have an example exactly analogous to the King's Cross message, in 2008 they complained to the Advertising Standards Authority about Christian messages on buses which promised damnation for sinners. And as it happens just yesterday their chief exec posted this very considered and balanced tweet about the response and reporting of it. Of all the people to accuse of inconsistency over this the Humanists are just about the last in the queue. Are you being obtuse or just not reading what I wrote: I don't recall them objecting when other religious messaging was displayed at Kings Cross.... unless you know different
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Mar 21, 2024 15:43:51 GMT
I very much doubt its put anyone into hiding no. As I said, the real question is why has this message gone that step further than happy Eid or xmas. Who's in charge of transport for London. Oh yeah the baiter in chief. Not happy with renaming stations to the tune of 6m quid at tax payers expense, he needs to do a bit more baiting. And to be fair to him he's getting rather good at it. Now I may be wrong about the Khan involvement but I fucking doubt it 😆 What has Sadiq Khan got to do with Network Rail!? Why have you mentioned him? Lost the arguement so to save some face look for minor errors to nit pick at 😆 I mention Khan because NR and TFL have all sorts of joint collaborations in and around London. Not out of the question he can influence NR in many ways as MAYOR OF LONDON. I mean he is a bit of an over reaching power hungry little man. Will that do you...
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 21, 2024 15:44:35 GMT
Are you being obtuse or just not reading what I wrote: I don't recall them objecting when other religious messaging was displayed at Kings Cross.... unless you know different The tweet in the post you've just quoted (on the topic of not reading): it’s pretty obvious that this goes beyond what one might support as the equal celebration of religious events in a plural societyA crucial point showing this is different from other celebratory religious messages, stated and studiously ignored multiple times on this thread
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Post by emretezzy on Mar 21, 2024 15:45:22 GMT
So no example of another person having to go into hiding for saying or showing something about another religion? Thought so. How many other religions tell us in the UK that if we say the wrong thing or show the wrong thing we'll come for you and your family? Your obvious confusion is not understanding the detail of the message and it appearing on a major transport hub notice board. As I said happy this or that from any religion is fine and welcomed in our society. But they can all do one with religious and ideological clap trap. The question you should be asking is why has this message gone further than the usual. Look into that and you may resolve your confusion. I don’t think anyone has had to go into hiding because of this train station message. You will of course enlighten me if I am wrong. Have you read the article??? It's not the fact Ramadan has been acknowledged or even celebrated. Its that some fuckwit who is in charge has put, on purpose, a provocative extreme extract of the Quaran. If they put Ramadan Kareem to all passengers no one would have batted an eye lid. You've just jumped on your left wing horse and haven't even bothered to even look at the context. I have lived in a Muslim country for 6 years, in truth the best 6 years of my life. I never felt any need to put my faith upon anyone or dispute there's. There is an extreme fraction of Islam that needs to be carefully and properly managed.
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Post by emretezzy on Mar 21, 2024 15:46:19 GMT
Are you being obtuse or just not reading what I wrote: I don't recall them objecting when other religious messaging was displayed at Kings Cross.... unless you know different The tweet in the post you've just quoted (on the topic of not reading): it’s pretty obvious that this goes beyond what one might support as the equal celebration of religious events in a plural societyA crucial point showing this is different from other celebratory religious messages, stated and studiously ignored multiple times on this thread Spot on. They 0bviously didn't bother to read it or even take in the context. Just argue away blindly.
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 21, 2024 16:05:09 GMT
What has Sadiq Khan got to do with Network Rail!? Why have you mentioned him? Lost the arguement so to save some face look for minor errors to nit pick at 😆 I mention Khan because NR and TFL have all sorts of joint collaborations in and around London. Not out of the question he can influence NR in many ways as MAYOR OF LONDON. I mean he is a bit of an over reaching power hungry little man. Will that do you... No. It is absurd to blame Khan for the actions of entirely separate entity that happen to operate in the city he is mayor of. Lost the argument!? You readily admitted you didn’t think anyone had to go into hiding over this message and so completely undermined your point of linking the Kings Cross message to the teacher who went into hiding! Why are the right wing so obsessed with cancelling everything and intervening in people’s lives. Why can’t they just live and let live? Or, as I said earlier, perhaps those getting so irate over this are doing so as the message made them feel guilty of their sins?
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 21, 2024 16:10:02 GMT
I don’t think anyone has had to go into hiding because of this train station message. You will of course enlighten me if I am wrong. Have you read the article??? It's not the fact Ramadan has been acknowledged or even celebrated. Its that some fuckwit who is in charge has put, on purpose, a provocative extreme extract of the Quaran. If they put Ramadan Kareem to all passengers no one would have batted an eye lid. You've just jumped on your left wing horse and haven't even bothered to even look at the context. I have lived in a Muslim country for 6 years, in truth the best 6 years of my life. I never felt any need to put my faith upon anyone or dispute there's. There is an extreme fraction of Islam that needs to be carefully and properly managed. Left wing horse!? The messaging isn’t extreme. It is repeated in other religions (catholicism for example). I don’t think it is linked to death threats to a teacher who showed pictures of Muhammad to students and had to go into hiding. That’s what the post of mine you quoted was responding to. But apparently it is Sadiq Khan’s fault now! People are so precious and get so easily offended these days. This is a complete non-story and a culture war issue. Some over enthusiastic employee at Network Rail put up something he shouldn’t have and it got removed. It wasn’t offensive. It wasn’t extreme. It was a bit far that’s all.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Mar 21, 2024 16:12:30 GMT
Lost the arguement so to save some face look for minor errors to nit pick at 😆 I mention Khan because NR and TFL have all sorts of joint collaborations in and around London. Not out of the question he can influence NR in many ways as MAYOR OF LONDON. I mean he is a bit of an over reaching power hungry little man. Will that do you... No. It is absurd to blame Khan for the actions of entirely separate entity that happen to operate in the city he is mayor of. Lost the argument!? You readily admitted you didn’t think anyone had to go into hiding over this message and so completely undermined your point of linking the Kings Cross message to the teacher who went into hiding! Why are the right wing so obsessed with cancelling everything and intervening in people’s lives. Why can’t they just live and let live? Or, as I said earlier, perhaps those getting so irate over this are doing so as the message made them feel guilty of their sins? It's been pointed out to you by NR themselves that they admit the message was wrong. And they don't know why it went beyond the standard one they do every year. Was there a fuss last year? I'm not getting into your left wing right wing arguement. Pointless...
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Post by wannabee on Mar 21, 2024 16:20:56 GMT
Are you being obtuse or just not reading what I wrote: I don't recall them objecting when other religious messaging was displayed at Kings Cross.... unless you know different The tweet in the post you've just quoted (on the topic of not reading): it’s pretty obvious that this goes beyond what one might support as the equal celebration of religious events in a plural societyA crucial point showing this is different from other celebratory religious messages, stated and studiously ignored multiple times on this thread You and Copson are defining what the boundaries should be when no such definition exists I accept that you may not have read all my posts but Felonious suggested, like you, that the message itself may be the issue, my reply to him based on reading several reports and comments found no consensus existed. In fact where objections existed and by no means was that universal, the reasons were many and varied. Farage's boundary for instance is Christian Messaging only which is very much anti-pluralist and quite different to your and Copson's opinion Personally I'd be very happy to not see any Religious Messaging but I'm content to ignore it.
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 21, 2024 17:53:47 GMT
No. It is absurd to blame Khan for the actions of entirely separate entity that happen to operate in the city he is mayor of. Lost the argument!? You readily admitted you didn’t think anyone had to go into hiding over this message and so completely undermined your point of linking the Kings Cross message to the teacher who went into hiding! Why are the right wing so obsessed with cancelling everything and intervening in people’s lives. Why can’t they just live and let live? Or, as I said earlier, perhaps those getting so irate over this are doing so as the message made them feel guilty of their sins? It's been pointed out to you by NR themselves that they admit the message was wrong. And they don't know why it went beyond the standard one they do every year. Was there a fuss last year? I'm not getting into your left wing right wing arguement. Pointless... It was an over enthusiastic employee who went a bit far with the normal message they put out. Nothing to write home about. Nothing for anyone to fuss about. Nothing for reasonable people to be offended by. Really no big deal and it wouldn’t have made the press or got a thread on here had it been a Catholic message with exactly the same moral at Easter time. Yet you got all upset, started blaming Sadiq Khan(!) and linking it to entirely unrelated incident of a teacher who went into hiding after showing pictures of Muhammad! We all know that the reason this made the press is because it is Muslim. Typical cancel culture. Typical culture war issue. A complete non-story.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Mar 21, 2024 18:19:24 GMT
It's been pointed out to you by NR themselves that they admit the message was wrong. And they don't know why it went beyond the standard one they do every year. Was there a fuss last year? I'm not getting into your left wing right wing arguement. Pointless... It was an over enthusiastic employee who went a bit far with the normal message they put out. Nothing to write home about. Nothing for anyone to fuss about. Nothing for reasonable people to be offended by. Really no big deal and it wouldn’t have made the press or got a thread on here had it been a Catholic message with exactly the same moral at Easter time. Yet you got all upset, started blaming Sadiq Khan(!) and linking it to entirely unrelated incident of a teacher who went into hiding after showing pictures of Muhammad! We all know that the reason this made the press is because it is Muslim. Typical cancel culture. Typical culture war issue. A complete non-story. Absolute drivel. NR have themselves shown you talk drivel. And if you can't see the link between a teacher and his 4 kids 3 years on still in hiding from extremist maniacs in a secular country and overtly religious messages appearing on a Kings Cross announcement board then I'm afraid you're blind to where this is going. And if an overtly Catholic message had appeared on there you can bet your house the outrage would be just as bad, more likely worse. "Over enthusiastic employee who went a bit over the top!!!" 😆
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 21, 2024 18:27:30 GMT
Bring back the Spanish Inquisition
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 21, 2024 18:43:14 GMT
It was an over enthusiastic employee who went a bit far with the normal message they put out. Nothing to write home about. Nothing for anyone to fuss about. Nothing for reasonable people to be offended by. Really no big deal and it wouldn’t have made the press or got a thread on here had it been a Catholic message with exactly the same moral at Easter time. Yet you got all upset, started blaming Sadiq Khan(!) and linking it to entirely unrelated incident of a teacher who went into hiding after showing pictures of Muhammad! We all know that the reason this made the press is because it is Muslim. Typical cancel culture. Typical culture war issue. A complete non-story. Absolute drivel. NR have themselves shown you talk drivel. And if you can't see the link between a teacher and his 4 kids 3 years on still in hiding from extremist maniacs in a secular country and overtly religious messages appearing on a Kings Cross announcement board then I'm afraid you're blind to where this is going. And if an overtly Catholic message had appeared on there you can bet your house the outrage would be just as bad, more likely worse. "Over enthusiastic employee who went a bit over the top!!!" 😆 The message wasn’t extreme at all. Nobody is in hiding because of it. Nobody has received death threats. It is a complete non-issue. Nobody was harmed.
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Post by knype on Mar 21, 2024 18:55:09 GMT
Out of interest were those messages about sinners . I suspect it's the message that's caused the issue not the religion. I have no idea what the other messages were, personally if I see Religious Messaging or other nutters on the street pushing their particular brand of Bullshit I just avoid and ignore them I don't doubt some had an issue with the specific message, glancing through various reports the reasons for objecting are many and varied. The only Public Figure I have seen commenting is Farage, no surprise there, and he was apparently outraged, no surprise there either. The only direct quote from Nige I've seen is "Aren’t we supposed to be a Christian country?" This would suggest Nige favours only Christian messaging, but as I said before I don't recall previous objections to Passover and Diwali messaging.... maybe I missed it. www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1879281/network-rail-statement-islamic-messageApparently they've now said they haven't put other messages out after people have asked for evidence and are now investigating it all
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Post by gawa on Mar 21, 2024 19:01:34 GMT
What's today's hadith mates
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Post by gawa on Mar 21, 2024 19:08:19 GMT
They should put ones up like:
"You've made a pigs ear of it" "You couldn't stop a pig in a passage" "One man's meat is another man's poison"
And call them gammons of the day 🎣
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Post by emretezzy on Mar 21, 2024 19:12:36 GMT
Absolute drivel. NR have themselves shown you talk drivel. And if you can't see the link between a teacher and his 4 kids 3 years on still in hiding from extremist maniacs in a secular country and overtly religious messages appearing on a Kings Cross announcement board then I'm afraid you're blind to where this is going. And if an overtly Catholic message had appeared on there you can bet your house the outrage would be just as bad, more likely worse. "Over enthusiastic employee who went a bit over the top!!!" 😆 The message wasn’t extreme at all. Nobody is in hiding because of it. Nobody has received death threats. It is a complete non-issue. Nobody was harmed. Go do the same in an Islamic country see how you get on. You'll be hide and seek champion recieving death threats before you know it.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Mar 21, 2024 19:26:38 GMT
Absolute drivel. NR have themselves shown you talk drivel. And if you can't see the link between a teacher and his 4 kids 3 years on still in hiding from extremist maniacs in a secular country and overtly religious messages appearing on a Kings Cross announcement board then I'm afraid you're blind to where this is going. And if an overtly Catholic message had appeared on there you can bet your house the outrage would be just as bad, more likely worse. "Over enthusiastic employee who went a bit over the top!!!" 😆 The message wasn’t extreme at all. Nobody is in hiding because of it. Nobody has received death threats. It is a complete non-issue. Nobody was harmed. Let's look at it another way. What happens if someone on his last day as chief announcement board operator at King's Cross does the following announcement; Jesus was a dope smoking hippy. Or Muhammed was a bacon eating layabout. Which will cause the most trouble 😆 Rhetorical scenario, you need not reply.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 21, 2024 19:32:26 GMT
I have no idea what the other messages were, personally if I see Religious Messaging or other nutters on the street pushing their particular brand of Bullshit I just avoid and ignore them I don't doubt some had an issue with the specific message, glancing through various reports the reasons for objecting are many and varied. The only Public Figure I have seen commenting is Farage, no surprise there, and he was apparently outraged, no surprise there either. The only direct quote from Nige I've seen is "Aren’t we supposed to be a Christian country?" This would suggest Nige favours only Christian messaging, but as I said before I don't recall previous objections to Passover and Diwali messaging.... maybe I missed it. www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1879281/network-rail-statement-islamic-messageApparently they've now said they haven't put other messages out after people have asked for evidence and are now investigating it all Wrong again Knype Kelvin McKenzie writing on GBeebies Web Site said he asked National Rail for photographic evidence that other Religious Messaging had been displayed on Kings Cross Notice Boards and was told they don't have any nor do they have photographs of Hadith of the Day either as these were taken and posted by Commuters
Quite different to what you are claiming
"Absence of Evidence does not mean Evidence of Absence” - Dr Carl Sagan
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Post by foster on Mar 21, 2024 19:57:03 GMT
Let me be the one that you turn to Someone you can rely on Closer each day Hadith of the day
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