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Post by thisisouryear on Mar 7, 2024 12:55:33 GMT
Is he backing off to allow other players to get in position? James for Leeds is rapid, if you go in and don't win the ball you will leave the defense in a lot of trouble. He will either go past you or do a quick one two and be in behind you before you can blink. When someone has that much pace you can't get that close, you have to stand off them.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Mar 7, 2024 13:37:43 GMT
Is he backing off to allow other players to get in position? James for Leeds is rapid, if you go in and don't win the ball you will leave the defense in a lot of trouble. He will either go past you or do a quick one two and be in behind you before you can blink. When someone has that much pace you can't get that close, you have to stand off them. I think a big part of the role is to shepherd players and slow them down and allow the defence to get more set. Working out their stronger foot and playing them onto the weaker foot with clever positioning is also key. As I say its actually a very tricky position where you are generally dealing with either a speed merchant or a box of tricks who 1 on 1 is always at some point in a game going to get the better of you. The support from midfield is vital to them succeeding. Lumping non specialists into the role should only be done when injuries mean you have to. We've recruited poorly in this regard, no doubt. |
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Post by cvillestokie on Mar 7, 2024 14:11:24 GMT
Is he backing off to allow other players to get in position? James for Leeds is rapid, if you go in and don't win the ball you will leave the defense in a lot of trouble. He will either go past you or do a quick one two and be in behind you before you can blink. When someone has that much pace you can't get that close, you have to stand off them. I think a big part of the role is to shepherd players and slow them down and allow the defence to get more set. Working out their stronger foot and playing them onto the weaker foot with clever positioning is also key. As I say its actually a very tricky position where you are generally dealing with either a speed merchant or a box of tricks who 1 on 1 is always at some point in a game going to get the better of you. The support from midfield is vital to them succeeding. Lumping non specialists into the role should only be done when injuries mean you have to. We've recruited poorly in this regard, no doubt. I don’t think it previously helped that we decided to play inverted fullbacks either. No better way to confuse fullbacks (and midfielders) that don’t typically play there than to randomly ask them to do something weird half way through the year. Of course, if we had a defender that could win their own 50-50s and a goalkeeper that was comfortable collecting, this would be mitigated a little. |
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Post by noustie on Mar 7, 2024 14:36:54 GMT
Exactly this. When he has been up against two of the best wingers in the league, the solution isn't just as simple as jumping in. As a good example, Hoever is prone to diving in when the attacker has his back to goal - and he is regularly turned and exposed for it. This isn't really a defence of Gooch as to me he looks like a midtable Championship utility player at best, but at the moment he is being forced into being an inadequate solution to a problem we have refused to address. Actually it is a perfectly reasonable defence of Gooch - as you rightly point out he's a mid table utility player not doing as good a job as a specialist left back. It isn't his fault the club neglected to get someone in do the job and instead gambled on playing a stop gap. It was the same with Thompson - he had a couple of passable performances and has subsequently got targeted and shown up for the same reason. Remember when Diouf went from doing a one off very good job at right wingback to being absolutely hung out there where you could see his confidence evaporating game by game? A professional scouting/ coaching set-up should be able to exploit such round holes/square pegs and can only get away with it short-term - that we'll go a whole season without a recognised left back is absolutely bat shit mental. I could scout for the opposition - attack down Stoke's right then switch it left so the right winger is 1v1 vs whoever won/lost the Stoke left back tombola at Friday training. |
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Post by noustie on Mar 7, 2024 14:42:30 GMT
Is he backing off to allow other players to get in position? James for Leeds is rapid, if you go in and don't win the ball you will leave the defense in a lot of trouble. He will either go past you or do a quick one two and be in behind you before you can blink. When someone has that much pace you can't get that close, you have to stand off them. I think a big part of the role is to shepherd players and slow them down and allow the defence to get more set. Working out their stronger foot and playing them onto the weaker foot with clever positioning is also key. As I say its actually a very tricky position where you are generally dealing with either a speed merchant or a box of tricks who 1 on 1 is always at some point in a game going to get the better of you. The support from midfield is vital to them succeeding. Lumping non specialists into the role should only be done when injuries mean you have to. We've recruited poorly in this regard, no doubt. You've pretty much summarized what the bloke who does the focus training for the wee one tells her - he's got his B license and played professionally for Aberdeen and a few teams down south. Whole point is buying time whilst for the attacker he wants the space you are standing in so don't make it easy for him to take it. |
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Post by thisisouryear on Mar 7, 2024 17:58:57 GMT
Is he backing off to allow other players to get in position? James for Leeds is rapid, if you go in and don't win the ball you will leave the defense in a lot of trouble. He will either go past you or do a quick one two and be in behind you before you can blink. When someone has that much pace you can't get that close, you have to stand off them. I think a big part of the role is to shepherd players and slow them down and allow the defence to get more set. Working out their stronger foot and playing them onto the weaker foot with clever positioning is also key. As I say its actually a very tricky position where you are generally dealing with either a speed merchant or a box of tricks who 1 on 1 is always at some point in a game going to get the better of you. The support from midfield is vital to them succeeding. Lumping non specialists into the role should only be done when injuries mean you have to. We've recruited poorly in this regard, no doubt. Yes, ideally the defense gets set and a midfielder helps to double up on the player and close the space making it harder for them to go anywhere. It's easy to rip players apart in that position if they have more pace. Quick players want you to get close to them because that makes life easy for them. If Gooch is standing off and leading a player like James onto his weakest foot then he's not doing a lot wrong, like you say it's the support which is lacking if they get caught still. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 7, 2024 18:07:21 GMT
He’s a right winger, he shouldn’t be playing left back. The recruitment is awful.
That said, he never gives up and will run for 90 mins. It’s not his fault he’s being forced to play in an alien position thanks to our bizarre transfer dealings.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Mar 7, 2024 18:21:33 GMT
All goes back to how ridiculous the Tymon deal was with no replacement lined up. Relying on a 33 year old crock was never going to end well. Not really. Tymon couldn't defend any better than Gooch. |
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Post by canadianmoose on Mar 7, 2024 18:38:55 GMT
Most of our players are guilty of backing off too much. More steel in the tackle required across the board
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Post by redstriper on Mar 7, 2024 19:35:48 GMT
We've had at least half a dozen non-triers over the past few years, and yet Gooch is being picked on ?...
I like his attitude, he always gives 100%, covers a lot of yards, very positive with possession, good at switching play - in case none of you noticed he played several pinpoint 40 yard crossfield passes to Million against Leeds. Granted he's not Kyle Walker, but we are a mediocre championship club and he's good enough to hold his own.
Right, who are you all going to slag off next ?
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Post by Jimmyg on Mar 7, 2024 19:43:28 GMT
We've had at least half a dozen non-triers over the past few years, and yet Gooch is being picked on ?... I like his attitude, he always gives 100%, covers a lot of yards, very positive with possession, good at switching play - in case none of you noticed he played several pinpoint 40 yard crossfield passes to Million against Leeds. Granted he's not Kyle Walker, but we are a mediocre championship club and he's good enough to hold his own. Right, who are you all going to slag off next ? Exactly,I thought he had quite a good game against Leeds was definitely giving 100% and rarely gave the ball away. |
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Post by bertiestan on Mar 7, 2024 20:29:49 GMT
We've had at least half a dozen non-triers over the past few years, and yet Gooch is being picked on ?... I like his attitude, he always gives 100%, covers a lot of yards, very positive with possession, good at switching play - in case none of you noticed he played several pinpoint 40 yard crossfield passes to Million against Leeds. Granted he's not Kyle Walker, but we are a mediocre championship club and he's good enough to hold his own. Right, who are you all going to slag off next ? Exactly,I thought he had quite a good game against Leeds was definitely giving 100% and rarely gave the ball away. He gave the ball away with a 6 yard pass mate on a few occasions, the lads awful…works hard but absolutely shite🔴⚪️ |
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Post by Jimmyg on Mar 7, 2024 20:34:43 GMT
Exactly,I thought he had quite a good game against Leeds was definitely giving 100% and rarely gave the ball away. He gave the ball away with a 6 yard pass mate on a few occasions, the lads awful…works hard but absolutely shite🔴⚪️ Few occasions yeah, but to say he was absolutely shit is a complete overstatement,he did well and kept coming forward looking for a pass,I'm not sure what you expect but for me he played well |
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Post by bertiestan on Mar 7, 2024 20:48:44 GMT
He gave the ball away with a 6 yard pass mate on a few occasions, the lads awful…works hard but absolutely shite🔴⚪️ Few occasions yeah, but to say he was absolutely shit is a complete overstatement,he did well and kept coming forward looking for a pass,I'm not sure what you expect but for me he played well It isn’t that I don’t like him as pro but he lacks so much mate…I understand he’s playing out of position and is being hung out to dry a bit but I just don’t rate him at all…he’s definitely a weak link🔴⚪️ |
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Post by Gary Hackett on Mar 7, 2024 22:07:35 GMT
Few occasions yeah, but to say he was absolutely shit is a complete overstatement,he did well and kept coming forward looking for a pass,I'm not sure what you expect but for me he played well It isn’t that I don’t like him as pro but he lacks so much mate…I understand he’s playing out of position and is being hung out to dry a bit but I just don’t rate him at all…he’s definitely a weak link🔴⚪️ He's a decent squad player, far better than some of the shite in the squad. Your being way too critical of him. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 7, 2024 22:09:10 GMT
It isn’t that I don’t like him as pro but he lacks so much mate…I understand he’s playing out of position and is being hung out to dry a bit but I just don’t rate him at all…he’s definitely a weak link🔴⚪️ He's a decent squad player, far better than some of the shite in the squad. Your being way too critical of him. Imagine thinking Gooch is an issue in the squad. The mind boggles |
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Post by bertiestan on Mar 7, 2024 22:42:50 GMT
He's a decent squad player, far better than some of the shite in the squad. Your being way too critical of him. Imagine thinking Gooch is an issue in the squad. The mind boggles An issue in the squad🤷🏼 not really an issue with him as I’ve stated in a previous post…I just don’t think he’s very good🔴⚪️ |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 7, 2024 22:44:46 GMT
Imagine thinking Gooch is an issue in the squad. The mind boggles An issue in the squad🤷🏼 not really an issue with him as I’ve stated in a previous post…I just don’t think he’s very good🔴⚪️ At least 80% of our squad isn’t very good |
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Post by bertiestan on Mar 7, 2024 22:48:10 GMT
An issue in the squad🤷🏼 not really an issue with him as I’ve stated in a previous post…I just don’t think he’s very good🔴⚪️ At least 80% of our squad isn’t very good Your right but he’s right down there…but that’s just my opinion 🔴⚪️ |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 8, 2024 6:59:24 GMT
Pretty much everyone had Gooch down as a cheap squad filler yet his performances have been good enough to get him picked in the first team on merit and has even been trusted with the job as a stop gap in the wrong position on the wrong side of the pitch. And he still gets slagged off for not being very good.
As a utility player - which is his the role in the squad - he's been outstanding and one of the success stories of our summer recruitment. The recruitment disaster was skimping on the defence, not bringing in Gooch as a player who will selflessly give his all no matter what he's asked to do.
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Post by Rick Grimes on Mar 8, 2024 7:39:25 GMT
Is he backing off to allow other players to get in position? James for Leeds is rapid, if you go in and don't win the ball you will leave the defense in a lot of trouble. He will either go past you or do a quick one two and be in behind you before you can blink. When someone has that much pace you can't get that close, you have to stand off them. You don’t stand off them so much to the point where they’ve got acres of space to put whatever cross or shot they want to do though, which is exactly what Gooch does. |
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Post by redstriper on Mar 8, 2024 7:44:00 GMT
Against Leeds he was up against one of the most dangerous players in the division. Yet in the second half he was able to nullify him AND still get forward.
ridiculous level of criticism on the thread.
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Post by haway on Mar 8, 2024 9:07:49 GMT
I’ve always seen Gooch as someone who is a good professional with a good attitude, but not a lot of natural talent. Certainly not enough to make much of an impact at championship level.
That said, I think his best position is an attacking right wing back in a back 5 formation. Not LB in a back 4 formation.
He’s an okay crosser and has good athleticism, so should be focusing on running down the right and firing in a cross. He shouldn’t be playing in a defensive flat back 4 because the winger will rinse him 9 times out of 10 (I’m assuming that’s how he’s been played - seemed that way against us).
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Post by moon on Mar 8, 2024 9:25:06 GMT
He’s a right winger, he shouldn’t be playing left back. The recruitment is awful. That said, he never gives up and will run for 90 mins. It’s not his fault he’s being forced to play in an alien position thanks to our bizarre transfer dealings. I'm not sure he's competent in any position to be in the starting 11 in a Championship team, I can't fault his desire and commitment though, and I assume he's only playing there whilst our other backup CM come LB is suspended.
Whatever league we are in next season, our defence needs some serious work.
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Post by moon on Mar 8, 2024 9:28:49 GMT
I’ve always seen Gooch as someone who is a good professional with a good attitude, but not a lot of natural talent. Certainly not enough to make much of an impact at championship level. That said, I think his best position is an attacking right wing back in a back 5 formation. Not LB in a back 4 formation. He’s an okay crosser and has good athleticism, so should be focusing on running down the right and firing in a cross. He shouldn’t be playing in a defensive flat back 4 because the winger will rinse him 9 times out of 10 (I’m assuming that’s how he’s been played - seemed that way against us). From what I've seen, he's mostly been played either as a makeshift fullback on either side (which hasn't gone well) or as a winger on the left in a 4-3-3 (which also hasn't gone well), the times he has looked good is when he's come on for the last 30 minutes or so with us chasing the game (pretty much every game I can remember) and he has been charging down the right.
I like his attitude but I just don't think he's good enough at this level (like many others in our squad).
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Mar 8, 2024 9:29:27 GMT
I’ve always seen Gooch as someone who is a good professional with a good attitude, but not a lot of natural talent. Certainly not enough to make much of an impact at championship level. That said, I think his best position is an attacking right wing back in a back 5 formation. Not LB in a back 4 formation. He’s an okay crosser and has good athleticism, so should be focusing on running down the right and firing in a cross. He shouldn’t be playing in a defensive flat back 4 because the winger will rinse him 9 times out of 10 (I’m assuming that’s how he’s been played - seemed that way against us). Fair comments. Rinsed 9 in 10 is harsh though. He's better than that. You must be thinking of Hoever 😆 |
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Post by fazza90 on Mar 8, 2024 9:32:14 GMT
He will always give it his all but ability wise he’s just an average championship player. He will have some good games but the majority either ok or below par. I honestly think he’s a good league one player but a shit champ player…I don’t like bashing any player but it’s my opinion of him🔴⚪️ See Thompson, Ennis, Bonham, Rose, Vidigal, potentially Tchamadeu (although he has potential), Haks, Baker, Lowe, Wilmot post-injury |
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Post by thisisouryear on Mar 8, 2024 9:40:23 GMT
Is he backing off to allow other players to get in position? James for Leeds is rapid, if you go in and don't win the ball you will leave the defense in a lot of trouble. He will either go past you or do a quick one two and be in behind you before you can blink. When someone has that much pace you can't get that close, you have to stand off them. You don’t stand off them so much to the point where they’ve got acres of space to put whatever cross or shot they want to do though, which is exactly what Gooch does. A player like James could be past him so fast if he gets too close, he has to give him space or he risks leaving him with acres of space and time and your defense exposed. When Players get in behind you and have time it's so hard to defend, especially if they are left free to pick out a pass to players running into the box whilst your central defenders are also running back. It's suicidal to get too close and play to James strengths. It's easier to read and defend a game in front of you than behind you, it's up to other players to help him out to nullify his game |
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Post by xchpotter on Mar 8, 2024 9:43:51 GMT
Seen far worse performances at full back than Gooch and as has been said, you don't go in tight on a speed merchant unless you can match for pace which no one in our team could do with James.
It indicates more widely the appalling recruitment which is key here.
I think Gooch is a steady and solid pro that is needed in this team right now.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Mar 8, 2024 9:44:39 GMT
I honestly think he’s a good league one player but a shit champ player…I don’t like bashing any player but it’s my opinion of him🔴⚪️ See Thompson, Ennis, Bonham, Rose, Vidigal, potentially Tchamadeu (although he has potential), Haks, Baker, Lowe, Wilmot post-injury Harsh that Fazza. Thompson- decent champo squad player Ennis- not seen enough yet Bonham- borderline, doing a decent job Rose- champo squad player Vidigal- defo something there Junior- defo potential Haks- bad attitude? Baker- can be quality, defo good enough Lowe- too young to say Wilmot- championship squad player My humble opinion of course |
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