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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Feb 29, 2024 9:49:57 GMT
We're not screwed as a club. We have to get things right on the pitch as it's the most important thing for a football club to do (obviously) but we have the infrastructure and fanbase to be a successful club again. Football is cyclical and we're going through a poor period. I get a bit sick of the melodrama if I'm honest...... I agree with you. If we take a historical perspective, we have spent slightly more seasons out of the top division than in it. We are currently a bit below our median position in the pyramid, but that position is in the 2nd tier not the top tier. The Championship is littered with clubs like us who have been in the PL and whose fans are as desperate as us to get back there. If we do get relegated ( a realistic possibility but by no means a certainty) we join a league which this season is hosting other clubs like us who've been there ( Pompey, Derby, Bolton, Barnsley, Blackpool, Wigan, Reading...). Parachute payments give a huge advantage to the relegated clubs to bounce back. If you don't do in that period, as we didn't, it becomes much more difficult. If the Championship had the 24 best owners and the 24 best managers in the world, three of each of them would still get relegated. A unique pyramid with promotion and relegation throughout is what gives huge interest to our game compared with closed leagues ( as for example the Euro super league proposals wanted). We are not 'screwed' or 'broken' as a club by any sensible definition of those terms. Through my FSA role, over the years I have met and worked with plenty of fans whose clubs have been screwed, broken and destroyed by owners, many with evil intent. I don't have to list them on here - you know them as well as I do. Personally, I think calls for an ownership change are crazy. We have local owners who are lifelong fans of the club who've got a bob or two to boot. That's worth a great deal. When I tell fans of other clubs that we have had a price freeze for 14/15 ?? years and that we get free coach travel to all away games, they check to see that it isn't 1st April. Those things have not only widened the access to the live games in difficult economic times but also show that the owners appreciate the importance of the fans. I suspect that many of those attacking Jon Coates (sometimes in personally very insulting terms) haven't met him, let alone had a detailed football conversation with him. I've done the former but not the latter ( which I'd love to do). What I do know is that senior people at the EFL who have to deal with him, speak very highly to me of him. But that doesn't mean that as fans we should be happy with, and not question, everything off the pitch. Far from it ! The new football regulator ( Bill due to be laid before Parliament very soon) will have fan engagement in its remit and all Clubs will have to establish new Fan Advisory Boards ( "Stoke City Connect" in local parlance). SCC should look at the financial and strategic issues and not just the customer service issues ( which in my view have improved a lot) and hold the owners and senior executives to account on those. That is partly why I and others are reviving the Stoke City Supporters Club, hopefully to become an effective fans representative body ( relaunch meeting on 4th April - watch this space). Meanwhile, let's support the manager, SJW and the team in fighting to escape relegation. But even it happens, it won't be the end of the world. Of course, I'd rather not go there again, but some of my best times watching Stoke were in the third tier - 26 unbeaten run under Lou; Wembley win; visiting different towns and grounds etc. It will still be Stoke City and still be the best way to spend a Saturday afternoon !
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2024 9:56:25 GMT
I mean we have spent like £150m since relegation and find ourselves in the bottom 3 with little signs of us escaping. Don’t really see that being overly melodramatic and I don’t think the owners for all their faults would agree either. I support the club, I turn up on a Saturday hoping/expecting us to win. The owners aren't screwing us over, they're not bleeding us dry and sending the receivers in. They're well intentioned people who happen to be mega rich, and they've made some bad decisions that have bitten them on the arse. We can bitch and moan about it until the cows come home, but ultimately it boils down to either turning up for 90 minutes to support the team, or staying away. The next game could be the start of our renaissance, or their could be worse to come. If enough fans are passionate about forcing change behind the scenes, sending a message to the owners or whatever they choose to they should get together and do that. But as I said previously, we are not screwed as a club. Relegation would be a massive kick in the bollocks, but we can do a Derby and continue to support the team through tough times whilst we get back on our feet, or we can all drift away and do something else on a Saturday and see crowds of 12,000 again. It's up to the individual, but football is about supporting your team through thick and thin isn't it? The club has been poorly run, people will see that huge investment and think it’s good. It’s not sustainable and becomes even less sustainable if we go down. It shows a complete mismanage from top to bottom. Football is expensive, people are struggling financially and that decision to not show becomes so much easier when playing in the third tier. Any decent footballers we have will leave. The atmosphere and attendance will plummet. The investment will dwindle. We will become a nothing team in a nothing league.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Feb 29, 2024 9:58:53 GMT
I support the club, I turn up on a Saturday hoping/expecting us to win. The owners aren't screwing us over, they're not bleeding us dry and sending the receivers in. They're well intentioned people who happen to be mega rich, and they've made some bad decisions that have bitten them on the arse. We can bitch and moan about it until the cows come home, but ultimately it boils down to either turning up for 90 minutes to support the team, or staying away. The next game could be the start of our renaissance, or their could be worse to come. If enough fans are passionate about forcing change behind the scenes, sending a message to the owners or whatever they choose to they should get together and do that. But as I said previously, we are not screwed as a club. Relegation would be a massive kick in the bollocks, but we can do a Derby and continue to support the team through tough times whilst we get back on our feet, or we can all drift away and do something else on a Saturday and see crowds of 12,000 again. It's up to the individual, but football is about supporting your team through thick and thin isn't it? The club has been poorly run, people will see that huge investment and think it’s good. It’s not sustainable and becomes even less sustainable if we go down. It shows a complete mismanage from top to bottom. Football is expensive, people are struggling financially and that decision to not show becomes so much easier when playing in the third tier. Any decent footballers we have will leave. The atmosphere and attendance will plummet. The investment will dwindle. We will become a nothing team in a nothing league. If we are relegated, we will have the most money to spend and the highest income. We may spend it badly but we certainly won't be a nothing team, I imagine we will have the highest attendances alongside Derby if they don't go up
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Feb 29, 2024 10:01:17 GMT
I support the club, I turn up on a Saturday hoping/expecting us to win. The owners aren't screwing us over, they're not bleeding us dry and sending the receivers in. They're well intentioned people who happen to be mega rich, and they've made some bad decisions that have bitten them on the arse. We can bitch and moan about it until the cows come home, but ultimately it boils down to either turning up for 90 minutes to support the team, or staying away. The next game could be the start of our renaissance, or their could be worse to come. If enough fans are passionate about forcing change behind the scenes, sending a message to the owners or whatever they choose to they should get together and do that. But as I said previously, we are not screwed as a club. Relegation would be a massive kick in the bollocks, but we can do a Derby and continue to support the team through tough times whilst we get back on our feet, or we can all drift away and do something else on a Saturday and see crowds of 12,000 again. It's up to the individual, but football is about supporting your team through thick and thin isn't it? The club has been poorly run, people will see that huge investment and think it’s good. It’s not sustainable and becomes even less sustainable if we go down. It shows a complete mismanage from top to bottom. Football is expensive, people are struggling financially and that decision to not show becomes so much easier when playing in the third tier. Any decent footballers we have will leave. The atmosphere and attendance will plummet. The investment will dwindle. We will become a nothing team in a nothing league. We'll smash the championship next season dunna werrit chief 👍
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 29, 2024 10:02:13 GMT
I support the club, I turn up on a Saturday hoping/expecting us to win. The owners aren't screwing us over, they're not bleeding us dry and sending the receivers in. They're well intentioned people who happen to be mega rich, and they've made some bad decisions that have bitten them on the arse. We can bitch and moan about it until the cows come home, but ultimately it boils down to either turning up for 90 minutes to support the team, or staying away. The next game could be the start of our renaissance, or their could be worse to come. If enough fans are passionate about forcing change behind the scenes, sending a message to the owners or whatever they choose to they should get together and do that. But as I said previously, we are not screwed as a club. Relegation would be a massive kick in the bollocks, but we can do a Derby and continue to support the team through tough times whilst we get back on our feet, or we can all drift away and do something else on a Saturday and see crowds of 12,000 again. It's up to the individual, but football is about supporting your team through thick and thin isn't it? The club has been poorly run, people will see that huge investment and think it’s good. It’s not sustainable and becomes even less sustainable if we go down. It shows a complete mismanage from top to bottom. Football is expensive, people are struggling financially and that decision to not show becomes so much easier when playing in the third tier. Any decent footballers we have will leave. The atmosphere and attendance will plummet. The investment will dwindle. We will become a nothing team in a nothing league. Even the Bet365 riches can't pay for a time machine to go back and address the issues leading to our demise though. And in fairness to the club frozen tickets for 15 years and free away travel are two of the ways the club are tackling the cost of modern football. I'm not saying we should be happy about the current situation, but we either protest en masse and force change (which may or may not be for the best) or we get behind the team for the next 12 games and kick on next season in this division. There's not much else we can do really.........
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Post by vicarious on Feb 29, 2024 10:04:45 GMT
Every time I make a sandwich, my dog will stand right in periphery with a wide eyed look, as if to say ‘What’s this, could it be? He’s knocking up a feast all for me, get the fuck in, this is it!’ I’ll then go to the living room and my dog will skip with joy, tail wagging, spinning in circles, in anticipation of his feast. He then watches me tuck in, longingly eating every bite wondering when he gets his feast. I get to the end and chuck him a little bit of ham which he snorts down in less than a second. He looks around for more, sniffing the floor and stares at me with a look of ‘Is that it you fucking useless greedy twat?’. Stoke City is me at sandwich time, and I am my dog’s disappointment. My god your about as funny as a burning orphanage Was said orphanage full of clowns?
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Post by bertiestan on Feb 29, 2024 10:06:15 GMT
My god your about as funny as a burning orphanage Was said orphanage full of clowns? Stop it mate your too funny
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Post by vicarious on Feb 29, 2024 10:07:41 GMT
Was said orphanage full of clowns? Stop it mate your too funny Just checking🫡
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Post by str8outtahampton on Feb 29, 2024 11:45:14 GMT
Stop it mate your too funny Just checking🫡 It was in fact very funny, and an excellent illustration of the abusive relationship we (and the fans of pretty much every team) have with the club. In addition, "Burning Orphanage" could easily be the name of Frankie Boyle's next tour.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Feb 29, 2024 12:05:34 GMT
With all these things, it depends on which layer of relativity you're looking at. If you're comparing us to a club with a batshit owner, refusing to put money in and slowly asset stripping whatever is left then of course the Coates are clearly head and shoulders above that.
They provide stability and a freedom from any form of existential concerns about the long term survival of the club, as long as they here and have the intent to fund it. The amount of money they have thrown at us is mind boggling and one can't say it's not done with the intent other than to achieve the best thing possible for the football club.
But equally, the assertions that "we wouldn't exist" without them and whatever are just simply untrue, and completely obfuscate their simply awful running of the club since Summer 2016. Consistently hiring the wrong people, spending with little regard for the FFP constraints and then doing nothing but complain about them for 5 years hence, even though we had a sizeable advantage of every other club in the league when we got relegated. In their efforts to address this they've taken ownership of the ground and training ground, which I think is a concern for if they ever decide to pull the plug.
I'm sure John Coates is a nice bloke, but his record speaks of a naivety when it comes to appointing people to run the club. The consistent changes in philosophy and management styles indicates he is unsure how best to run the club or correct his mistakes resulting in the compounding of errors leading us into this mess. I see people say "oh he's not comfortable in front of the cameras", well tough shit, you own a football club with 1000s of stakeholders, you have taken on that responsibility and are accountable for it.
When we think of clubs with bad owners over the last 10 years, many of these are already ahead of us. West Brom have had an absentee owner for nearly 3 years and consistently push for the playoffs. You can't "be grateful we're not Derby" when Derby have a non-insignificant chance of being above us next year. We're potentially being relegated with a club in Sheffield Wednesday whose owner regularly takes a pop at fans. So how fucking bad do you have to have run the place to be on that level.
For a club of our wealth and resources to fall into the third tier would be an absolute embarrassment and final, cast iron proof of how incompetently we've been run for 8 years, even if the intentions were pure. I don't hold to the football is cyclical thing, yes clubs go through success and failures but are we really trying to say the current state of the club, with immense resources, facilities, increased support and stability is going to be inexorably relegated to the third tier because it's happened before? I think it's a complete abdication of responsibility to simply accept that as a fact personally. The only thing cyclical about this situation is this will be the third time a Coates family member has taken us into the third tier.
So we are not *screwed* as a club existentially, but we're an incredibly dysfunctional club that doesn't know what it wants to be and is sleepwalking into it's lowest ebb in nearly 30 years and some of its lowest finishes since the war, in spite of everything we should in reality have no reason to be ungrateful for.
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Post by danceswithclams on Feb 29, 2024 12:11:26 GMT
With all these things, it depends on which layer of relativity you're looking at. If you're comparing us to a club with a batshit owner, refusing to put money in and slowly asset stripping whatever is left then of course the Coates are clearly head and shoulders above that. They provide stability and a freedom from any form of existential concerns about the long term survival of the club, as long as they here and have the intent to fund it. The amount of money they have thrown at us is mind boggling and one can't say it's not done with the intent other than to achieve the best thing possible for the football club. But equally, the assertions that "we wouldn't exist" without them and whatever are just simply untrue, and completely obfuscate their simply awful running of the club since Summer 2016. Consistently hiring the wrong people, spending with little regard for the FFP constraints and then doing nothing but complain about them for 5 years hence, even though we had a sizeable advantage of every other club in the league when we got relegated. In their efforts to address this they've taken ownership of the ground and training ground, which I think is a concern for if they ever decide to pull the plug. I'm sure John Coates is a nice bloke, but his record speaks of a naivety when it comes to appointing people to run the club. The consistent changes in philosophy and management styles indicates he is unsure how best to run the club or correct his mistakes resulting in the compounding of errors leading us into this mess. I see people say "oh he's not comfortable in front of the cameras", well tough shit, you own a football club with 1000s of stakeholders, you have taken on that responsibility and are accountable for it. When we think of clubs with bad owners over the last 10 years, many of these are already ahead of us. West Brom have had an absentee owner for nearly 3 years and consistently push for the playoffs. You can't "be grateful we're not Derby" when Derby have a non-insignificant chance of being above us next year. For a club of our wealth and resources to fall into the third tier would be an absolute embarrassment and final, cast iron proof of how incompetently we've been run for 8 years, even if the intentions were pure. I don't hold to the football is cyclical thing, yes clubs go through success and failures but are we really trying to say the current state of the club, with immense resources, facilities, increased support and stability is going to be inexorably relegated to the third tier because it's happened before? I think it's a complete abdication of responsibility to simply accept that as a fact personally. The only thing cyclical about this situation is this will be the third time a Coates family member has taken us into the third tier. So we are not *screwed* as a club existentially, but we're an incredibly dysfunctional club that doesn't know what it wants to be and is sleepwalking into it's lowest ebb in nearly 30 years, in spite of everything we should in reality have no reason to be ungrateful for. Ungrateful sod. Didn't you get the memo? We should just be thankful that we have a club at all. Praise be to the Supreme Leader John Coates! 🤡
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Post by doctortheopolis on Feb 29, 2024 13:24:49 GMT
With all these things, it depends on which layer of relativity you're looking at. If you're comparing us to a club with a batshit owner, refusing to put money in and slowly asset stripping whatever is left then of course the Coates are clearly head and shoulders above that. They provide stability and a freedom from any form of existential concerns about the long term survival of the club, as long as they here and have the intent to fund it. The amount of money they have thrown at us is mind boggling and one can't say it's not done with the intent other than to achieve the best thing possible for the football club. But equally, the assertions that "we wouldn't exist" without them and whatever are just simply untrue, and completely obfuscate their simply awful running of the club since Summer 2016. Consistently hiring the wrong people, spending with little regard for the FFP constraints and then doing nothing but complain about them for 5 years hence, even though we had a sizeable advantage of every other club in the league when we got relegated. In their efforts to address this they've taken ownership of the ground and training ground, which I think is a concern for if they ever decide to pull the plug. I'm sure John Coates is a nice bloke, but his record speaks of a naivety when it comes to appointing people to run the club. The consistent changes in philosophy and management styles indicates he is unsure how best to run the club or correct his mistakes resulting in the compounding of errors leading us into this mess. I see people say "oh he's not comfortable in front of the cameras", well tough shit, you own a football club with 1000s of stakeholders, you have taken on that responsibility and are accountable for it. When we think of clubs with bad owners over the last 10 years, many of these are already ahead of us. West Brom have had an absentee owner for nearly 3 years and consistently push for the playoffs. You can't "be grateful we're not Derby" when Derby have a non-insignificant chance of being above us next year. We're potentially being relegated with a club in Sheffield Wednesday whose owner regularly takes a pop at fans. So how fucking bad do you have to have run the place to be on that level. For a club of our wealth and resources to fall into the third tier would be an absolute embarrassment and final, cast iron proof of how incompetently we've been run for 8 years, even if the intentions were pure. I don't hold to the football is cyclical thing, yes clubs go through success and failures but are we really trying to say the current state of the club, with immense resources, facilities, increased support and stability is going to be inexorably relegated to the third tier because it's happened before? I think it's a complete abdication of responsibility to simply accept that as a fact personally. The only thing cyclical about this situation is this will be the third time a Coates family member has taken us into the third tier. So we are not *screwed* as a club existentially, but we're an incredibly dysfunctional club that doesn't know what it wants to be and is sleepwalking into it's lowest ebb in nearly 30 years and some of its lowest finishes since the war, in spite of everything we should in reality have no reason to be ungrateful for. Mate, this is an excellent summary.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2024 17:29:17 GMT
The club has been poorly run, people will see that huge investment and think it’s good. It’s not sustainable and becomes even less sustainable if we go down. It shows a complete mismanage from top to bottom. Football is expensive, people are struggling financially and that decision to not show becomes so much easier when playing in the third tier. Any decent footballers we have will leave. The atmosphere and attendance will plummet. The investment will dwindle. We will become a nothing team in a nothing league. If we are relegated, we will have the most money to spend and the highest income. We may spend it badly but we certainly won't be a nothing team, I imagine we will have the highest attendances alongside Derby if they don't go up We said that when we came down to Championship and look how that panned out.
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Post by nigelkeyercoker on Feb 29, 2024 18:17:23 GMT
With all these things, it depends on which layer of relativity you're looking at. If you're comparing us to a club with a batshit owner, refusing to put money in and slowly asset stripping whatever is left then of course the Coates are clearly head and shoulders above that. They provide stability and a freedom from any form of existential concerns about the long term survival of the club, as long as they here and have the intent to fund it. The amount of money they have thrown at us is mind boggling and one can't say it's not done with the intent other than to achieve the best thing possible for the football club. But equally, the assertions that "we wouldn't exist" without them and whatever are just simply untrue, and completely obfuscate their simply awful running of the club since Summer 2016. Consistently hiring the wrong people, spending with little regard for the FFP constraints and then doing nothing but complain about them for 5 years hence, even though we had a sizeable advantage of every other club in the league when we got relegated. In their efforts to address this they've taken ownership of the ground and training ground, which I think is a concern for if they ever decide to pull the plug. I'm sure John Coates is a nice bloke, but his record speaks of a naivety when it comes to appointing people to run the club. The consistent changes in philosophy and management styles indicates he is unsure how best to run the club or correct his mistakes resulting in the compounding of errors leading us into this mess. I see people say "oh he's not comfortable in front of the cameras", well tough shit, you own a football club with 1000s of stakeholders, you have taken on that responsibility and are accountable for it. When we think of clubs with bad owners over the last 10 years, many of these are already ahead of us. West Brom have had an absentee owner for nearly 3 years and consistently push for the playoffs. You can't "be grateful we're not Derby" when Derby have a non-insignificant chance of being above us next year. We're potentially being relegated with a club in Sheffield Wednesday whose owner regularly takes a pop at fans. So how fucking bad do you have to have run the place to be on that level. For a club of our wealth and resources to fall into the third tier would be an absolute embarrassment and final, cast iron proof of how incompetently we've been run for 8 years, even if the intentions were pure. I don't hold to the football is cyclical thing, yes clubs go through success and failures but are we really trying to say the current state of the club, with immense resources, facilities, increased support and stability is going to be inexorably relegated to the third tier because it's happened before? I think it's a complete abdication of responsibility to simply accept that as a fact personally. The only thing cyclical about this situation is this will be the third time a Coates family member has taken us into the third tier. So we are not *screwed* as a club existentially, but we're an incredibly dysfunctional club that doesn't know what it wants to be and is sleepwalking into it's lowest ebb in nearly 30 years and some of its lowest finishes since the war, in spite of everything we should in reality have no reason to be ungrateful for. Excellently put. The only reason we are in this relative mess is awful decision making, from our owners. Yes they are great people, but they are sending us to League One, which will not be an easy league to get out of!
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