|
|
Post by sufolkstokie on Feb 25, 2024 18:53:57 GMT
No one seems able to identify/agree what the hell is going on
Some blame the manager(s)
Some blame the tactics
Some blame the players
Some the recruitment
And of course there is the ownership
A foolish few blame the supporters
Some blame the structural set up of the management team
Some want the old school back
Some believe those days are gone
It really is a mess and in this league or the one below next season it is going to take one hell of a turnaround
The whole thing is such a mess it is hard to work out where to start
We basically have no identity and until we define that I do not see how we can move forward
Given how so many cogs appear to not be working it really is a total disaster
|
|
|
|
Post by danceswithclams on Feb 25, 2024 18:57:33 GMT
It's the owners.
All this is down to them and nobody else.
It really is that simple.
|
|
|
|
Post by citynickscfc on Feb 25, 2024 19:04:24 GMT
It's the owners. All this is down to them and nobody else. It really is that simple. This is the only thing everyone pretty much agrees with. Oh and that SS is failing no matter how you spin it. |
|
|
|
Post by sufolkstokie on Feb 25, 2024 19:06:21 GMT
It's the owners. All this is down to them and nobody else. It really is that simple. I do not think it is that simple We get rid of them and where does the money come from? That is not an excuse. Maybe their patience, which did work for us in the past has created an air of ambivalence across the club |
|
|
|
Post by Bojan Mackey on Feb 25, 2024 19:08:15 GMT
John Coates is an incompetent minge.
It’s that simple.
|
|
|
|
Post by sufolkstokie on Feb 25, 2024 19:11:46 GMT
John Coates is an incompetent minge. It’s that simple. I don't disagree, given what he has overseen, but you can still have a performing well paid team despite the owner I just dont think it is that simple |
|
|
|
Post by sufolkstokie on Feb 25, 2024 19:15:22 GMT
John Coates is an incompetent minge. It’s that simple. I don't disagree, given what he has overseen, but you can still have a performing well paid team despite the owner I just dont think it is that simple |
|
|
|
Post by franklin on Feb 25, 2024 19:16:48 GMT
It's simple for me recruitment is/ was shocking and successive managers have failed to progress after being given everything possible to succeed.
I don't care if we have another 10 mangers we need to find one that's competent.
|
|
|
|
Post by danceswithclams on Feb 25, 2024 19:25:27 GMT
It's simple for me recruitment is/ was shocking and successive managers have failed to progress after being given everything possible to succeed. I don't care if we have another 10 mangers we need to find one that's competent. They haven't been given everything possible to succeed though. Managers will keep failing here because the club doesn't have the structure to operate (let alone succeed) in the modern game. The owners can (and have) chuck as much money as they like at it but they might as well just be shovelling pound notes into a fucking furnace for all the good it will do. Nothing will change until the whole make up, operational approach/strategy, and culture of the club is shaken up, modernised and brought kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Can you see the current owners being able to oversee that successfully? I sure as hell can't. |
|
|
|
Post by J-Roar on Feb 25, 2024 19:29:06 GMT
It's simple for me recruitment is/ was shocking and successive managers have failed to progress after being given everything possible to succeed. I don't care if we have another 10 mangers we need to find one that's competent. 10 more mangers and we still won't find a saviour? |
|
|
|
Post by threepoints on Feb 25, 2024 19:30:23 GMT
The Coats family have done well for SCFC over the years, but I now think that we need new owners. Remember the old saying 'a fish rots from the head'.
My fear at the moment is that we will end up in Division 2 in two or three years. It's happened to Coventry and Portsmouth.
|
|
|
|
Post by nott1 on Feb 25, 2024 19:31:37 GMT
John Coates is an incompetent minge. It’s that simple. I don't disagree, given what he has overseen, but you can still have a performing well paid team despite the owner I just dont think it is that simple JC has no input in team selection or tactics so it cannot be him responsible for these results in all honesty. |
|
|
|
Post by franklin on Feb 25, 2024 19:32:11 GMT
It's simple for me recruitment is/ was shocking and successive managers have failed to progress after being given everything possible to succeed. I don't care if we have another 10 mangers we need to find one that's competent. 10 more mangers and we still won't find a saviour? Possible but one things for sure we'll have a new manager/s before a new chairman. |
|
|
|
Post by nott1 on Feb 25, 2024 19:33:35 GMT
The Coats family have done well for SCFC over the years, but I now think that we need new owners. Remember the old saying 'a fish rots from the head'. My fear at the moment is that we will end up in Division 2 in two or three years. It's happened to Coventry and Portsmouth. You will not get anyone with the money they have who will want to spend it on a down and out Lge one bound failed club! |
|
|
|
Post by franklin on Feb 25, 2024 19:34:34 GMT
It's simple for me recruitment is/ was shocking and successive managers have failed to progress after being given everything possible to succeed. I don't care if we have another 10 mangers we need to find one that's competent. They haven't been given everything possible to succeed though. Managers will keep failing here because the club doesn't have the structure to operate (let alone succeed) in the modern game. The owners can (and have) chuck as much money as they like at it but they might as well just be shovelling pound notes into a fucking furnace for all the good it will do. Nothing will change until the whole make up, operational approach/strategy, and culture of the club is shaken up, modernised and brought kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Can you see the current owners being able to oversee that successfully? I sure as hell can't. Maybe I should have been clearer because money was what I was meaning by everything. |
|
|
|
Post by mcw on Feb 25, 2024 19:35:44 GMT
That other thread re the 5 year net EFL spend leads me to believe we are a complete wet sponge of club. Grown fat on the Coates’s investment to the extent we are seen as a soft touch on wages/fees and everything in between. Managers and a large proportion of players come here for the cash and nothing else in most cases. No desire, no hunger and no commitment has meant a steady decline. Depressing really.
|
|
|
|
Post by ursemboys on Feb 25, 2024 19:37:55 GMT
Anyone who wants the Coates out of Stoke want there heads looking at, do you think they would just walk away and not want there loans payed back and who you do you think would come in and pay the money needed, they need someone to run the club for them not sell it.
The family are massive fans who put their money in to Stoke, we would be screwed without the family wether you like it or not .
|
|
|
|
Post by bridgnorthstokie on Feb 25, 2024 19:47:37 GMT
I actually feel sorry for the Coates family. They appoint managers in good faith they will be successful, they back them financially far greater than majority of championship teams,they don't stick their noses in and they give managers freedom to run football matters. It all goes wrong despite all this, they have to cough up to pay off the management team and the cycle starts again....they must be praying please let us finally pick a winner.
|
|
|
|
Post by 19notbeaten72 on Feb 25, 2024 19:58:07 GMT
Anyone who wants the Coates out of Stoke want there heads looking at, do you think they would just walk away and not want there loans payed back and who you do you think would come in and pay the money needed, they need someone to run the club for them not sell it. The family are massive fans who put their money in to Stoke, we would be screwed without the family wether you like it or not . Disagree entirely who says they would want the money back the money they have had to plough into the club has been all there own doing by making one mistake after another. Its there fault entirely why we find ourselves looking at another avoidable relegation. Being massive fans does not make them good owners in fact quite the opposite. |
|
|
|
Post by threepoints on Feb 25, 2024 20:00:51 GMT
I actually feel sorry for the Coates family. They appoint managers in good faith they will be successful, they back them financially far greater than majority of championship teams,they don't stick their noses in and they give managers freedom to run football matters. It all goes wrong despite all this, they have to cough up to pay off the management team and the cycle starts again....they must be praying please let us finally pick a winner.
I agree with this and is with some sadness that I think that it is time for a change. Everything that they have done of late has been done before and I'm reminded of these words attrebuted to Einstein (and others)
|
|
|
|
Post by march4 on Feb 25, 2024 20:10:43 GMT
I think the one thing we can agree on is that we have wonderful owners who the supporters of any other club in England would crawl over broken glass to have.
Their only fault is they are too nice.
|
|
|
|
Post by chayseeoatcake on Feb 25, 2024 20:10:57 GMT
Don’t think the happy clappers at the end of the game help.
|
|
|
|
Post by drippinggoatsnob on Feb 25, 2024 20:18:17 GMT
Wow. Where to start. It is down to a series of decisions, incidents, issues over a period of time not one. It is never one person or one issue and anyone who says it it is wrong. We have seen so much change because its Ricky, AN, Cartwright...whomever and it hasn't changed the course.
The evolution not revolution years under MH where we changed character (all for the right reasons)
The replacement of MH was too late and a little desperate. Lambert was our ninth option probably.
The filling in of the corner. The cold wet windy Tuesday night tag was partly shed.
The premier training facilities. It is all very nice for players, opposition and opposition fans.
The first season into the Championship. Allen, Butland remaining on their previous salary rather than us cashing in or changing their terms. There was an expectation we were going to pi55 it by many. When the failed we were in a whole host of player, finance and management issues. Expectation is crushing us.
The jones appointment was a disaster but again noones fault, he was too weak for a big dressing room and hindsight is wonderful.
AN was JCs friend and viewed him as his TP with Peter. The level of change and number of players without league experience has been another disaster. It has worked elsewhere but that isn't how we work in stoke. This was the part TP nailed.
The anxiety in the ground now is ridiculous. It's a horrible place to be for home fans and players only. A player said this..he hates playing at home because of the pressure and anxiety
The owners have been amazing financially for the club as we would have surely gone into administration with anyone else, but, they have made a series if bad decisions. Putting too much faith in certain people blind faith really. But backing people is the right thing...you just have to back thee right people.
The bit I think we have got wrong most has been player recruitment for where we are as a club.
The MH tenure, wimmer, jese etc
The Ndiaye purchase and lambert
Rowetts brewsters millions episode
Jones with vokes and his smith and ward recruitment as FB so vital to his diamond.
Mon was unlucky as it was FFP and the fans hatred of a back three which cost him. Probably our best period but it coincided with reduced expectations as we were down in most people's minds.
AN this season.....lots of people were excited by the approach but it was such a high gamble and once AN left it's hard for anyone else to piece the jigsaw.
The owners have messed up with their blind faith but not their love or loyalty to the club.
|
|
|
|
Post by professorplump on Feb 25, 2024 20:38:36 GMT
I don't think there is an easy answer to this. The Coates family have made mistakes, mainly with their choice of managers and Technical Director but that happens. Leeds United went through 15 managers between relegation and promotion. The recruitment has been poor but I still believe that there should be enough quality in this squad to stay up. I think the two managers, Alex Neil and Steven Schumacher are the most to blame.
|
|
|
|
Post by malteser68 on Feb 25, 2024 20:45:52 GMT
John Coates is an incompetent minge. It’s that simple. He needs to remove himself as much as possible Yes continue to own the club but has to remove himself and leave everything in the hands of competent people And then come and enjoy the match in his directors box etc etc but nothing else |
|
|
|
Post by swampySCFC on Feb 25, 2024 21:01:48 GMT
It’s very true at Stoke right now there’s no peg to hang your hat on
|
|
|
|
Post by malisastokie on Feb 25, 2024 21:11:00 GMT
Like everybody I am guessing what the problem but I remember an old boss of mine gave this piece of advice when gave me first general managers job.
You job is to do three things:
Set the expectation for the business.
Provide the structure to deliver the expectation.
Create the culture that enables the structure to succeed.
Every manager since Lambert ( I think he was told just keep us up ), has obviously been sold a vision.
Every Manager has been give a free reign on the type of structure and personnel he wants apart from MON who I am guessing got told sort this financial mess we have got ourselves into and while you are it win a few games along the way.
MON actually delivered if my guess on what his remit was and for that he got the sack.
AN got given the given the keys to the city thanks to MON and for whatever reason was given 4 months to show what all changes made in the off season would deliver.
JC decides it’s time for another change.
Rowett,Jones , MON and Neil all fall to the sword in 5 years, the only stability we had was COVID otherwise MON might not have lasted as long.
So my guess on the problem is that they know what they want , they will resource the structure required but don’t have the courage to stick when things aren’t going as planned.
Forget about AN the man but 4 months is hardly creating stability , which is a core ingredient in a good culture.
I know there are a lot of people want Schumacher gone and yes he has not helped by constant changes but he is not the problem and we sack him then this time next season what is going to happen.
Yes Schumacher replacement will join the list of Stoke funded millionaires.
|
|
i1da
Academy Starlet
Posts: 126
|
Post by i1da on Feb 26, 2024 0:16:45 GMT
It's the owners. All this is down to them and nobody else. It really is that simple. This is the only thing everyone pretty much agrees with. Oh and that SS is failing no matter how you spin it. Not everyone agrees with this. Those thinking new owners would be better don't know what they're asking for. |
|
|
|
Post by skip on Feb 26, 2024 0:20:21 GMT
I actually feel sorry for the Coates family. They appoint managers in good faith they will be successful, they back them financially far greater than majority of championship teams,they don't stick their noses in and they give managers freedom to run football matters. It all goes wrong despite all this, they have to cough up to pay off the management team and the cycle starts again. ...they must be praying please let us finally pick a winner. I don't believe in karma, but given they've made billions of pounds out of millions of people thinking exactly the same thing every time they place a bet... |
|
|
|
Post by LGH87 on Feb 26, 2024 0:41:08 GMT
I don't think there is an easy answer to this. The Coates family have made mistakes, mainly with their choice of managers and Technical Director but that happens. Leeds United went through 15 managers between relegation and promotion. The recruitment has been poor but I still believe that there should be enough quality in this squad to stay up. I think the two managers, Alex Neil and Steven Schumacher are the most to blame. But that’s why it goes wrong. They give every manager carte Blanche, rather than walking in to a club with a strategy, a long term plan and the tools within to achieve this. They get given the keys to the kingdom cos no cunt else at the club has a clue what they’re doing. Each manager is different from the last so you end up with a squad of players that have been recruited by multiple managers, to fit multiple systems and it just doesn’t fucking work. It’s fucking ridiculous. |
|
