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Post by ceejays on Feb 25, 2024 10:40:19 GMT
At the recent meet the manager SS defended Thompson and went on to talk about full backs wandering into midfield. He seemed to think he was some disciple of Pep . The fact is elite players on £300000 a week have the technique awareness and gravitas to achieve that . Though sometimes even Man City get caught out . So to give a guy who has plied his trade at Colchester and is still wet behind the ears that responsibility is sheer madness. At Blackburn we had the spectacle of two full backs attacking at the same time leaving just two at the back . Yesterday it was obvious from the off at the glaring space where Tchamadeau should have been . The inevitable happened. If we are to get out of this mess then someone needs a quiet word with our Head Coach . Perhaps the players are less than convinced about this system. Perhaps they are challenging it . Who knows ? But gifting the space and consequent goals is certain suicide. This gung ho style is opening the trap door. Another reason why he persists with it is our midfield of Burger Baker and Cundle is lightweight . We have a forward line of midgets too so the physicality of the team is another weakness. So let’s bolster the midfield with a full back wandering off his station . It won’t work. There is obviously logic in playing Baker as his prowess at set pieces takes penalties and is likely to score from distance is a good c.v . But he doesnt tackle . As for Cundle he too doesn’t have the physical attributes required . As for Lauren whatever his downside he has the necessary stature. At present too many of the team get muscled off the ball . So imho play a flat back four and impress upon them that they are in the team to DEFEND not charging up the pitch at every opportunity. The midfield has to have more six foot man mountains and that means Burger and Laurent . I fear we may persist with these Man City tactics . Someone tell SS he is not Pep
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Post by GrahamHyde on Feb 25, 2024 10:44:32 GMT
We're an absolute mess aren't we?
All over the place, players not good enough and naive management. For all of Neil's faults at least he recognised this early on and tried to go defensive to compensate.
This bunch of wasters would struggle in the league below. Clowns.
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Post by theonlooker on Feb 25, 2024 10:54:36 GMT
It's the one huge black mark against Schumacher for me. The players clearly can't play how he wants to yet he keeps on trying, and failing to do it.
It's the old Einstein quote about doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.
The frustration is that he parked his ideals against QPR and it got us a win. Just do that 4 more times between now and May and you can revisit your ideals in the summer when you can recruit for it.
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Post by senojbor on Feb 25, 2024 10:54:53 GMT
I agree, bang on, players are playing out of position
I was screaming at the television yesterday.
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Post by stokecitydom on Feb 25, 2024 10:56:25 GMT
Sunderland, Blackburn & Cardiff. Just three games that immediately spring to mind where goals were directly linked to not having a fullback anywhere near where they should traditionally be.
It’s madness that he’s persisting with this tactic, as it’s clear to all of the supporters that it’s directly leading to defeats.
This isn’t the time for clever tactics, we need to be solid in order to give us a fighting chance, but we’re just gifting points away.
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Post by jebbstuart on Feb 25, 2024 11:08:18 GMT
It's a complete mess we struggle to but out a back four who can defend. Play a flat back four have we got four players good enough to do that?
Midfield is passed through far too often and Baker is good at set pieces if you have the opportunity we don't have those opportunities.
Forward line has been a problem for years never addressed. You may as well play Wesley and tell him to just goal hang and make do a Mamma make yourself a presence in the box although that is probably beyond him.
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Post by Gods on Feb 25, 2024 11:16:39 GMT
Okay, who is going to do the 'I saw Folly of Inverted Fullbacks with World of Twist back in the early 90's' thing?!
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Post by Caerwrangonpotter on Feb 25, 2024 11:38:42 GMT
Who is going to do the 'I saw Folly of Inverted Fullbacks with World of Twist back in the early 90's' thing?! Don't be silly....they warmed up for Yes (with Rick Wakeman) at the Victoria Ground in 75  |
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Post by pushon on Feb 25, 2024 11:58:41 GMT
At the recent meet the manager SS defended Thompson and went on to talk about full backs wandering into midfield. He seemed to think he was some disciple of Pep . The fact is elite players on £300000 a week have the technique awareness and gravitas to achieve that . Though sometimes even Man City get caught out . So to give a guy who has plied his trade at Colchester and is still wet behind the ears that responsibility is sheer madness. At Blackburn we had the spectacle of two full backs attacking at the same time leaving just two at the back . Yesterday it was obvious from the off at the glaring space where Tchamadeau should have been . The inevitable happened. If we are to get out of this mess then someone needs a quiet word with our Head Coach . Perhaps the players are less than convinced about this system. Perhaps they are challenging it . Who knows ? But gifting the space and consequent goals is certain suicide. This gung ho style is opening the trap door. Another reason why he persists with it is our midfield of Burger Baker and Cundle is lightweight . We have a forward line of midgets too so the physicality of the team is another weakness. So let’s bolster the midfield with a full back wandering off his station . It won’t work. There is obviously logic in playing Baker as his prowess at set pieces takes penalties and is likely to score from distance is a good c.v . But he doesnt tackle . As for Cundle he too doesn’t have the physical attributes required . As for Lauren whatever his downside he has the necessary stature. At present too many of the team get muscled off the ball . So imho play a flat back four and impress upon them that they are in the team to DEFEND not charging up the pitch at every opportunity. The midfield has to have more six foot man mountains and that means Burger and Laurent . I fear we may persist with these Man City tactics . Someone tell SS he is not Pep Very well said CJ those seem to be precisely the current tactics. I'm not sure though that our current available defenders are strong enough to play a solid back-four. They are poor at dealing with high-balls and the current on loan goalie hates leaving his line. |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Feb 25, 2024 12:07:08 GMT
We're an absolute mess aren't we? All over the place, players not good enough and naive management. For all of Neil's faults at least he recognised this early on and tried to go defensive to compensate. This bunch of wasters would struggle in the league below. Clowns. Neil left us in a right shambles and his record was abysmal. We all recognised it to be fair |
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 25, 2024 12:10:47 GMT
Who is going to do the 'I saw Folly of Inverted Fullbacks with World of Twist back in the early 90's' thing?! It's all Psychobabble |
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Post by GrahamHyde on Feb 25, 2024 12:11:06 GMT
We're an absolute mess aren't we? All over the place, players not good enough and naive management. For all of Neil's faults at least he recognised this early on and tried to go defensive to compensate. This bunch of wasters would struggle in the league below. Clowns. Neil left us in a right shambles and his record was abysmal. We all recognised it to be fair Yes and we've somehow transpired to become even worse since he left. What a sorry state of affairs. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 25, 2024 12:17:20 GMT
If you want to play open, attacking football your defence has to be better than average, not worse. Once you open up with a dodgy defence (which is what we have) then you are going to get picked off.
Schumacher hasn't got the defenders to make his style of back 4 work. He has successfully played with a back 3 with wingbacks in the past - I really think that's his best bet at the moment. Persisting with his 433 is nuts. Equally it would be daft for him to go for a defensive approach - he's not committed to that style of play and hasn't done it in the past. If the answer is to setup as a more defensive side who play counter attacking football we need a new manager.
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Post by StokieDJC on Feb 25, 2024 12:22:51 GMT
Who is going to do the 'I saw Folly of Inverted Fullbacks with World of Twist back in the early 90's' thing?! It's all Psychobabble Apparently danceswithclams saw Psychobabble support World of Twist in the early 90's. Sadly i couldn't get tickets. |
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Post by StokieDJC on Feb 25, 2024 12:23:58 GMT
Ahh the inverted full backs, which has left us massively exposed on the wings. Which then means that less than quality centre halves are being pulled out of shape to cover across.
Managerial masterstroke.
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Post by biddulphchav on Feb 25, 2024 12:25:52 GMT
It can work, but the players playing the role, and those in midfield have to be superb on the ball and totally comfortable in possession. I don’t think we have those players. Baker and Burger are the only two we have who can take the ball anywhere in my opinion, and they rarely lose possession. What seems to be happening is we play this way, have players out of position, lose the ball through mis control or a poor pass and then we give up a chance. This happens to the best teams too but far less.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 25, 2024 12:27:07 GMT
If you want to play open, attacking football your defence has to be better than average, not worse. Once you open up with a dodgy defence (which is what we have) then you are going to get picked off. Schumacher hasn't got the defenders to make his style of back 4 work. He has successfully played with a back 3 with wingbacks in the past - I really think that's his best bet at the moment. Persisting with his 433 is nuts. Equally it would be daft for him to go for a defensive approach - he's not committed to that style of play and hasn't done it in the past. If the answer is to setup as a more defensive side who play counter attacking football we need a new manager. If we want to set up more defensive and grind results out we already have someone on the coaching staff who can do that - Gallagher |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Feb 25, 2024 12:46:04 GMT
It can work, but the players playing the role, and those in midfield have to be superb on the ball and totally comfortable in possession. I don’t think we have those players. Baker and Burger are the only two we have who can take the ball anywhere in my opinion, and they rarely lose possession. What seems to be happening is we play this way, have players out of position, lose the ball through mis control or a poor pass and then we give up a chance. This happens to the best teams too but far less. Rarely lose possession, Baker struggles to pass to his own team constantly, if we were to continue with these tactics he'd need replacing too. We need to make it as simple as possible for them, a flat back 4 with someone sitting infront of them, it won't be pretty but it may just keep us up then we can reassess in the summer. |
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 25, 2024 12:52:20 GMT
Junior looked good before going to Afcon because he overlapped Vidigal not Burger. The only bit of decent play Thompson contributed was an overlap and cross on the left.
Just play players in roles that they understand! If you do, we’ll stay up.
There’s not enough experience in the spine of the team and there’s certainly not enough in the senior coaching staff. SS has only been in management for about 4 years. His assistant and our most senior coach have only been doing their jobs since 2019 or so as well. It’s doomed to fail. Coates needs to bring in a senior coach with years more experience to help him.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Feb 25, 2024 12:57:09 GMT
Football appears to have joined the fashion industry. Life is simple only some want to make it difficult.
Like choosing a pair of jeans, straight leg, slim fit, standard, bell bottoms. The most important thing is to make sure they fit properly
Football is no different get the basics right (the spine of the side), then you build and hopefully the rest will follow.
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Post by biddulphchav on Feb 25, 2024 13:19:33 GMT
It can work, but the players playing the role, and those in midfield have to be superb on the ball and totally comfortable in possession. I don’t think we have those players. Baker and Burger are the only two we have who can take the ball anywhere in my opinion, and they rarely lose possession. What seems to be happening is we play this way, have players out of position, lose the ball through mis control or a poor pass and then we give up a chance. This happens to the best teams too but far less. Rarely lose possession, Baker struggles to pass to his own team constantly, if we were to continue with these tactics he'd need replacing too. We need to make it as simple as possible for them, a flat back 4 with someone sitting infront of them, it won't be pretty but it may just keep us up then we can reassess in the summer. I agree, he’s he best of a bad bunch, at least he can use both feet. You give Gooch the ball in a tight space and he will lose it 9 times out of ten, no way can he play as an inverted full back. Same goes for the other in that position, just not as shit. I’d actually go to a back 5 with Pearson sitting as I don’t rate any of our centre halves as good enough to form part of a solid two. With McNally out for a few weeks it’s Rose and Wilmot as first choice now for some crucial games - we need Hoever back in there as a CB to help out. |
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Post by danceswithclams on Feb 25, 2024 13:28:56 GMT
Football appears to have joined the fashion industry. Life is simple only some want to make it difficult. Like choosing a pair of jeans, straight leg, slim fit, standard, bell bottoms. The most important thing is to make sure they fit properly. If you're not wearing bootcut jeans (from George at Asda) with a pair of brown leather Hush Puppies right now I'll eat my own cock and balls in a brioche bun. 😅 |
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 25, 2024 13:36:06 GMT
Think I had to read that play in sixth form
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Post by moon on Feb 25, 2024 13:50:32 GMT
It's the one huge black mark against Schumacher for me. The players clearly can't play how he wants to yet he keeps on trying, and failing to do it. It's the old Einstein quote about doing the same thing over again and expecting different results. The frustration is that he parked his ideals against QPR and it got us a win. Just do that 4 more times between now and May and you can revisit your ideals in the summer when you can recruit for it. The next 5 games are very tough, it might be April before we pick up another point, Boro at home is his best chance of a win. April looks better in terms of fixtures, but if March goes as badly as I expect it too then relegation seems like a formality. I want Schumacher to succeed here, mainly because I’m tired of the constant churn of managers and players, he has to give us something in the next few months to show he’s the man for the job though - and honestly I don’t see how he can do it with this squad and the current trajectory, it’s too late. January was the time to fix this mess, I don’t blame Schumacher for the squad as most of the damage was done last summer - but he hasn’t found a way to get a performance out of the players he inherited. I think we’re completely fucked if we don’t win against Boro. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 25, 2024 14:18:49 GMT
If you want to play open, attacking football your defence has to be better than average, not worse. Once you open up with a dodgy defence (which is what we have) then you are going to get picked off. Schumacher hasn't got the defenders to make his style of back 4 work. He has successfully played with a back 3 with wingbacks in the past - I really think that's his best bet at the moment. Persisting with his 433 is nuts. Equally it would be daft for him to go for a defensive approach - he's not committed to that style of play and hasn't done it in the past. If the answer is to setup as a more defensive side who play counter attacking football we need a new manager. If we want to set up more defensive and grind results out we already have someone on the coaching staff who can do that - Gallagher If we do sack Schumacher (and I think it is a distinct possibility) I think we could do a lot worse than Gallagher on a short term contract. I think we improved markedly when he was in charge and I don't think it is a coincidence that our best run under Schumacher was at the start of this tenure when he was just building on what Gallagher had done. It was when he started to impose his own game plan on the team that it went wrong. We certainly looked better organised and harder to beat under Gallagher. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 25, 2024 16:01:23 GMT
At the recent meet the manager SS defended Thompson and went on to talk about full backs wandering into midfield. He seemed to think he was some disciple of Pep . The fact is elite players on £300000 a week have the technique awareness and gravitas to achieve that . Though sometimes even Man City get caught out . So to give a guy who has plied his trade at Colchester and is still wet behind the ears that responsibility is sheer madness. At Blackburn we had the spectacle of two full backs attacking at the same time leaving just two at the back . Yesterday it was obvious from the off at the glaring space where Tchamadeau should have been . The inevitable happened. If we are to get out of this mess then someone needs a quiet word with our Head Coach . Perhaps the players are less than convinced about this system. Perhaps they are challenging it . Who knows ? But gifting the space and consequent goals is certain suicide. This gung ho style is opening the trap door. Another reason why he persists with it is our midfield of Burger Baker and Cundle is lightweight . We have a forward line of midgets too so the physicality of the team is another weakness. So let’s bolster the midfield with a full back wandering off his station . It won’t work. There is obviously logic in playing Baker as his prowess at set pieces takes penalties and is likely to score from distance is a good c.v . But he doesnt tackle . As for Cundle he too doesn’t have the physical attributes required . As for Lauren whatever his downside he has the necessary stature. At present too many of the team get muscled off the ball . So imho play a flat back four and impress upon them that they are in the team to DEFEND not charging up the pitch at every opportunity. The midfield has to have more six foot man mountains and that means Burger and Laurent . I fear we may persist with these Man City tactics . Someone tell SS he is not Pep Even Pep accepted that Kyle walker couldn’t do it so changed a little as a result. If Kyle Walker can’t do it, Lyndon Gooch and Junior don’t stand a fucking chance of doing it. |
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Post by wearepremierleague on Feb 25, 2024 16:03:32 GMT
At least with Thompson doing it you end up with a centre midfielder at centre midfield. Doing it with Junior is absolutely brain dead
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Post by Caerwrangonpotter on Feb 25, 2024 17:23:10 GMT
At least with Thompson doing it you end up with a centre midfielder at centre midfield. Doing it with Junior is absolutely brain dead If the supporters can see Junior looks lost & no where near the player who arrived then why cant SS.....the system isn't working!!!!! |
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Post by owdestokie2 on Feb 25, 2024 17:26:43 GMT
Football appears to have joined the fashion industry. Life is simple only some want to make it difficult. Like choosing a pair of jeans, straight leg, slim fit, standard, bell bottoms. The most important thing is to make sure they fit properly. If you're not wearing bootcut jeans (from George at Asda) with a pair of brown leather Hush Puppies right now I'll eat my own cock and balls in a brioche bun. 😅 A brioche bun? I bet you were one of the Stokealona brigade 😂😂😂 |
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Post by roylandstoke on Feb 25, 2024 17:27:25 GMT
Watching Man City on MOTD appears to be the only preparation SS has done to pull of this system.
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