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Post by smallthorner on Jan 19, 2024 18:07:23 GMT
Load of cobblers putting modern players into old fashioned number pigeon holes.
But if you insist.. Hudson was a 10 Mahoney was a genuine 8 in your parlance. Burger is probably an 8. Mike Bernard and Pearson 6. Toddy was a wide man most of the time. NZ an 8.
Jimmy Greenhoff, Peter Dobing you could only categorise as second strikers.
George Eastham was a classic 10 most of his career but played left midfield/wide for long spells at Stoke.
The old W formation is not too dissimilar to a modern 3 at the back system but the wingers are more defensive of course.
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Post by smallthorner on Jan 19, 2024 18:07:36 GMT
Load of cobblers putting modern players into old fashioned number pigeon holes.
But if you insist.. Hudson was a 10 Mahoney was a genuine 8 in your parlance. Burger is probably an 8. Mike Bernard and Pearson 6. Toddy was a wide man most of the time. NZ an 8.
Jimmy Greenhoff, Peter Dobing you could only categorise as second strikers.
George Eastham was a classic 10 most of his career but played left midfield/wide for long spells at Stoke.
The old W formation is not too dissimilar to a modern 3 at the back system but the wingers are more defensive of course.
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 19, 2024 18:27:17 GMT
Very difficult to compare players of different eras.
I often wonder how good modern players would be on muddy pitches and savage tacklers.
It's hard to imagine how well Hudson and others of that era would perform on today's "billiard table" pitches but up against defenders who nowadays are a lot faster and fitter.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jan 19, 2024 18:35:36 GMT
He’s gone from looking like a cross between Rodney Trotter and Stephen Merchant under Neil to some kind of white Nzonzi under Schumacher. He’s looked brilliant ever since Neil fucked off
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2024 19:28:02 GMT
I reckon any fans for whom Burger is the best player they've ever seen in a Stoke shirt would have to be under the age of 10. Think he was on about zonz. Yeah, after reading it back I think you might be right
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2024 19:33:35 GMT
Very difficult to compare players of different eras. I often wonder how good modern players would be on muddy pitches and savage tacklers. It's hard to imagine how well Hudson and others of that era would perform on today's "billiard table" pitches but up against defenders who nowadays are a lot faster and fitter. The best players of yesteryear would be the best players of today, its that simple in my opinion, and vice versa. They all had the talent to play at the very top of their profession regardless of pitches, tackles etc so it wouldn't make any difference. If Kevin De Bruyne was born I'm 1950, he still would have been a top player in the 70's, and if Bobby Moore was born in 2000, he would be a top centre half in today's game. That's how I see it.
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Post by stokefanone on Jan 19, 2024 19:40:06 GMT
Some brill players are being mentioned on this post, I loved Nzonzie, Dobing, Whelan etc, but you cant compare anyone to Hudson when he came to Stoke. He just oozed class, he was immense. Impossible to put into words what he bought here. Godlike is the closest I can get.
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Post by cokecystfit on Jan 19, 2024 22:04:05 GMT
Interested in where you think Burger might end up in the pantheon of SCFC number 8's of the last 50 years. Appreciate he can play 6 too, by that's another debate. Been racking my brains for true 8s (box to box, bit of both, high energy types) and have a personal top 5 as follows: Hudson N'Zonzi Thomas Orlyggson Kavagnah Didn't see much of Eustace as lived away. For me, I think he could slip between Fonz and Micky T. Quite an erotic thought. He'll have to do plenty more to be up there with Mickey The Maestro 😆 In 1990 I saw MT walking in to the Vic with armfuls of fish and chips. A real team player but no nutritionist
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Post by bunnyscfc on Jan 19, 2024 22:29:13 GMT
Burger has had a good month in a shit league. Nothing more.
How far we have fallen if we are even mentioning him in the same breath as NZonzi, Whelan, Delap etc.
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Post by Simon Drainrod on Jan 19, 2024 22:43:18 GMT
The question was where do you think he will end up. If you think the answer is nowhere near those players, fair enough.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jan 19, 2024 23:02:27 GMT
Really enjoyed the booking he got the other day.
Completely killed a decent opportunity for them after we’d put ourselves in a stupid position. Was quick to bollock the ones who’d put us in that position.
It’s really frustrating when you compare it to the ones Pearson and Thompson got, both weren’t necessary.
Giving him the captaincy has lifted him. He’s settled well and looks comfortable. Hopefully he bangs in a few goals, he’s got a decent shot when he gets it right.
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Post by ct1 on Jan 19, 2024 23:22:07 GMT
He'll have to do plenty more to be up there with Mickey The Maestro 😆 In 1990 I saw MT walking in to the Vic with armfuls of fish and chips. A real team player but no nutritionist MT in the Vic - those were the days! 🙂
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 19, 2024 23:48:46 GMT
Interested in where you think Burger might end up in the pantheon of SCFC number 8's of the last 50 years. Appreciate he can play 6 too, by that's another debate. Been racking my brains for true 8s (box to box, bit of both, high energy types) and have a personal top 5 as follows: Hudson N'Zonzi Thomas Orlyggson Kavagnah Didn't see much of Eustace as lived away. For me, I think he could slip between Fonz and Micky T. Quite an erotic thought.
I think you might have hamstrung your thread when describing him as a number eight.
Indeed I do sometimes wonder where all this new parlance such a deep lying number six and other such nonsense when referring to midfielders, actually come from? A number six was always a centre back FFS!
For example, why is a number FOUR never mentioned nowadays?
When I first started watching Stoke they (and virtually every other team) lined up like this
2. Mash--------5. Smith---------6. Bloor-------3. -Pejic
7. Conroy-----10. Hudson---4. Mahoney-----11. Salmons
----------------------8. Greenhoff--------------------- --------------------------------9. Ritchie--------------
For me Burger is a number 4 (obviously) but hey, what do I know?
And Hudson always was and always will be a number 10, one of the best there's ever been, so there!
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Post by whatsashig on Jan 20, 2024 0:11:46 GMT
Numbers 8,9, 10 whatever , this lad looks promising, I get the n zonzi comparisons n maybe Hudson comparisons ns too, but it ain’t what number or position it’s just seeing a football player, just playing free
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Post by retrostoke on Jan 20, 2024 5:15:40 GMT
Kavanagh made someone’s top five 😂😂. Hilarious
How about slipping Paul Bracewell above Nzonzi.
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Post by headsgoup on Jan 20, 2024 9:50:20 GMT
I look forward to this debate in 30 years:
"Who was Stoke's greatest number 73 1/3 of all time?".
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Post by malisastokie on Jan 20, 2024 9:50:26 GMT
Hudson Nzonzi Burger
Might get past Nzonzi in time.
I don’t think he will ever surpass Hudson.
Hudson was sublime and played for when arguably we might have the league.
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Post by headsgoup on Jan 20, 2024 9:52:47 GMT
I look forward to this debate in 30 years: "Who was Stoke's greatest number 73 1/3 of all time?". Ray Wallace FTW, by the way.
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Post by jokker on Jan 20, 2024 9:56:36 GMT
Maybe a Whitehead but with feet.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 20, 2024 10:26:28 GMT
He’s done well recently but he’s got a lot to do before he can be compared to some of our greats.
Signs are positive but let’s see this time next year!
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Post by eddy on Jan 20, 2024 10:46:59 GMT
He has an enormous amount of work to do to be mentioned in the same breath as Steven "World Cup Winner" NZonzi. I'm too young to have seen Alan Hudson play - (although I had it in my head that he was more of an attacking player than Zonz?) was he really comparable to a literal world cup winner? Genuinely curious. I think even us Stoke fans forget how good our Steven was at times.
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Post by arniehudson on Jan 20, 2024 11:15:55 GMT
I don’t think it’s wrong to include No. 8s from our time in the lower leagues. If the player made us a better team or enjoyable to watch they are going to be the favourites of the fan base at the time. Be it the era of Waddington, Durban, Macari, Pulis, Hughes or Schumacher memory dictates they be included. So a shout out to Zico Kelly, Nigel Gleghorn and Carl Beeston for example. If the current team is successful Burger will no doubt be added to the list.
For me Hudson and N’Zonzi eclipse all the others I’ve seen.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jan 20, 2024 11:38:19 GMT
He'll have to do plenty more to be up there with Mickey The Maestro 😆 In 1990 I saw MT walking in to the Vic with armfuls of fish and chips. A real team player but no nutritionist Classic. He'd probably bought em with a few of his dodgy 5ers 😆
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Post by jokker on Jan 20, 2024 12:03:07 GMT
He has an enormous amount of work to do to be mentioned in the same breath as Steven "World Cup Winner" NZonzi. I'm too young to have seen Alan Hudson play - (although I had it in my head that he was more of an attacking player than Zonz?) was he really comparable to a literal world cup winner? Genuinely curious. I think even us Stoke fans forget how good our Steven was at times. Your assumption is correct, but the comparison is a little off. Hudson can't be factually compared to a World Cup Winner, because he never played in a world cup. The reason he didn't has nothing to do with his football qualities, but failure by England managers to accomodate his type of player. That Nzonzi was selected for the French team, let alone his coming on as a decisive sub in the final is something very few would have predicted in his first season as a Stoke player. Maybe later he grew as an influential player alongside Whelan, but it was still Glenn who was calling the shots in that midfield. But Deschamps saw something in Steven that no other manager at top level could see - if they had, he would have played for a top club, but he never did.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Jan 20, 2024 12:46:41 GMT
Interested in where you think Burger might end up in the pantheon of SCFC number 8's of the last 50 years. Appreciate he can play 6 too, by that's another debate. Been racking my brains for true 8s (box to box, bit of both, high energy types) and have a personal top 5 as follows: Hudson N'Zonzi Thomas Orlyggson Kavagnah Didn't see much of Eustace as lived away. For me, I think he could slip between Fonz and Micky T. Quite an erotic thought. I think you might have hamstrung your thread when describing him as a number eight. Indeed I do sometimes wonder where all this new parlance such a deep lying number six and other such nonsense when referring to midfielders, actually come from? A number six was always a centre back FFS!
For example, why is a number FOUR never mentioned nowadays? When I first started watching Stoke they (and virtually every other team) lined up like this 2. Mash--------5. Smith---------6. Bloor-------3. -Pejic 7. Conroy-----10. Hudson---4. Mahoney-----11. Salmons ----------------------8. Greenhoff--------------------- --------------------------------9. Ritchie-------------- For me Burger is a number 4 (obviously) but hey, what do I know? And Hudson always was and always will be a number 10, one of the best there's ever been, so there! Hudson can't be defined by a number! A number ten wouldn't pick the ball up from the goalkeeper! He was an artist who didn't paint by numbers, he painted it as he saw it, sometimes to an extent others couldn't see it or understand it! In 100 years time the Simon Sharmer, of the time, will do a series on it, probably! Jimmy Greenhoff will be his Mary! 😁
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Post by Simon Drainrod on Jan 20, 2024 12:57:31 GMT
Some great input - thanks.
It we we simplify it to the ranking of best all round central midfielders (Pop Robson types, can attack, defend, pass, tackle, shoot etc) since 1980, we now have:
1. Hudson 2. N'Zonzi 3. Brian Talbot 4. Paul Bracewell 5. TBC
Although I'm now doubting whether Hudson should be on that list at all given the comments from those who saw him about his playing style. I started in 86.
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Jan 20, 2024 13:12:22 GMT
He has an enormous amount of work to do to be mentioned in the same breath as Steven "World Cup Winner" NZonzi. I'm too young to have seen Alan Hudson play - (although I had it in my head that he was more of an attacking player than Zonz?) was he really comparable to a literal world cup winner? Genuinely curious. I think even us Stoke fans forget how good our Steven was at times. Your assumption is correct, but the comparison is a little off. Hudson can't be factually compared to a World Cup Winner, because he never played in a world cup. The reason he didn't has nothing to do with his football qualities, but failure by England managers to accomodate his type of player. That Nzonzi was selected for the French team, let alone his coming on as a decisive sub in the final is something very few would have predicted in his first season as a Stoke player. Maybe later he grew as an influential player alongside Whelan, but it was still Glenn who was calling the shots in that midfield. But Deschamps saw something in Steven that no other manager at top level could see - if they had, he would have played for a top club, but he never did. Sure Hughes was quoted as saying he'd made several calls to Deschamps to the tune that Nzonzi merited an International call-up. Perhaps he hoped early International recognition would help convince SN to stay at Stoke?
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Jan 20, 2024 13:44:59 GMT
Some great input - thanks. It we we simplify it to the ranking of best all round central midfielders (Pop Robson types, can attack, defend, pass, tackle, shoot etc) since 1980, we now have: 1. Hudson 2. N'Zonzi 3. Brian Talbot 4. Paul Bracewell 5. TBC Although I'm now doubting whether Hudson should be on that list at all given the comments from those who saw him about his playing style. I started in 86. Sammy Mac, Howard Kendall?
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Post by jokker on Jan 20, 2024 13:48:39 GMT
Your assumption is correct, but the comparison is a little off. Hudson can't be factually compared to a World Cup Winner, because he never played in a world cup. The reason he didn't has nothing to do with his football qualities, but failure by England managers to accomodate his type of player. That Nzonzi was selected for the French team, let alone his coming on as a decisive sub in the final is something very few would have predicted in his first season as a Stoke player. Maybe later he grew as an influential player alongside Whelan, but it was still Glenn who was calling the shots in that midfield. But Deschamps saw something in Steven that no other manager at top level could see - if they had, he would have played for a top club, but he never did. Sure Hughes was quoted as saying he'd made several calls to Deschamps to the tune that Nzonzi merited an International call-up. Perhaps he hoped early International recognition would help convince SN to stay at Stoke? Full International recognition didn't happen until he'd left Stoke.
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Jan 20, 2024 13:55:49 GMT
Burger has had a good month in a shit league. Nothing more. How far we have fallen if we are even mentioning him in the same breath as NZonzi, Whelan, Delap etc. I think he's got Premier League potential. But that's it so far, potential. We need to see it consistently now for the rest of the season and into next season too. Personally I think he'll do it. But it's too early to get carried away yet.
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