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Post by thedeadlyshart on Dec 27, 2023 16:27:16 GMT
Our best CB this season, and Burger’s friend, sign him.
We’ve tried a lot of different back line configurations this season and the best we’ve looked was McNally and Rose in a back four.
McNally and Wilmot have only had 2.5 games as a pair though (1 win and 2 losses) so, they didn’t have much time working together. And with Wilmot, McNally, and Rose as a back three, 1 win, 2 losses, 1 draw.
However, with McNally and Rose as a pair we have 4 wins, 5 draws, and 1 loss. That’s a very good record. Improving the back four should be a priority, but no one in our current squad should start ahead of McNally or Rose.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Dec 27, 2023 16:38:44 GMT
I thought he was the one most likely to give them something yesterday. Wasn’t his best game but he’s big, strong and young. I’d definitely explore signing him permanently if it works.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2023 16:43:48 GMT
I like him. Do agree he has a lapse or two in him, but at this level every player has a few flaws, or else they wouldn’t be here. If we can get a defence and keeper around him that can cover when he does lapse and he can complement them with the better parts of his game, we’ll be solid. One worth going for on a permanent.
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Post by stokest5 on Dec 27, 2023 16:46:59 GMT
Not convinced myself, can’t get through 90 minutes without switching off a couple of times. Agreed, big part of the reason why we are so dodgy at the back. Better than Rose but they've both got mistakes in them and two new centre halves will be a must in the summer. Same I think he’s average for the championship. Rose however I can’t believe the amount of times he malfunctions and gives the ball away under hardly any pressure and puts us in the shit!
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Dec 27, 2023 16:54:11 GMT
All season his 1 on 1 standing tackles have been superb. He never gets beat.
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 27, 2023 17:03:29 GMT
All season his 1 on 1 standing tackles have been superb. He never gets beat. Wins a lot of headers too. I'd like to keep him and spend more effort on getting a single safer bet at CB to replace Rose. Need someone who can read the whole game and shouts.
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Post by ilikelamp on Dec 27, 2023 17:15:35 GMT
I thought he was the one most likely to give them something yesterday. Wasn’t his best game but he’s big, strong and young. I’d definitely explore signing him permanently if it works. Yea second half there was one moment where you could see rose telling him to pass back to bonham but he panicked and decided to just kick it as hard as he could away which hit a brum player 3 yards from him to present them a chance.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 27, 2023 17:18:56 GMT
We should try to sign him on a permanent deal and find another centre half to play alongside him. Although I do think Wilmot will flourish if the way we played yesterday is a sign of things to come. He’d be an excellent option to have off the bench.
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Post by shakermaker on Dec 27, 2023 18:01:33 GMT
I like him. Do agree he has a lapse or two in him, but at this level every player has a few flaws, or else they wouldn’t be here. If we can get a defence and keeper around him that can cover when he does lapse and he can complement them with the better parts of his game, we’ll be solid. One worth going for on a permanent. Luke came here very highly rated by Coventry fans. To quote one of them: “Would’ve had him back with us in a heartbeat. As instrumental as Hamer was in the 2nd half of last season; I’d argue he was the final piece to the puzzle that got us to the playoffs.” I know it’s been mentioned a lot on here that McNally needs a more dominant centre back alongside him. At Coventry, he was on the right of a back three with Kyle MacFadzean in the middle, and at Oxford he was in a back four next to Elliott Moore, both of them proper no-nonsense centre-backs who are good leaders and communicators marshalling their defence. Little wonder they are both captains of their teams. If we can keep Luke next season and bring in that big, robust centre-back then I think we will see McNally flourish and show why he is one of this division’s most talented centre-backs. When he’s on song you can see he is a strong presence, plays the right pass, and can drive brilliantly from defence.
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Post by senojbor on Dec 27, 2023 18:06:21 GMT
As his stats show he wins more headers, more interceptions his forward passing is superior, he's a good Championship CB He's not Baresi reincarnated he's just pretty good (at this level) McNally is OK but we clearly need a better CB than any of them And yet the team looks worse when he plays. Stats mean fuck all when you’re a liability like he is. His passing is laughable. Your posts, all 150k of them are laughable.
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Post by strettonstokie on Dec 27, 2023 18:39:36 GMT
Not overly convinced by him and wouldn't mind him being recalled next month so we can get someone else better in, ideally we need 2 but I'll settle for a CB, LB and GK
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Post by idle on Dec 27, 2023 21:19:39 GMT
He's not allowed to have a mistake here or there? If you hold forwards to the same standard even Messi would be wank! None of those yesterday were really threatening, even if the Millwall one was. I'm not convinced he and Wilmot will be good as a pairing, but I'm happy to be proven wrong. Not ones that could lead to a goal in a division where matches are often decided by one goal. He gave Millwall a chance to win on Saturday and last night at one point, instead of doing the simple thing and passing back to Bonham who he was facing, he tried to pass upfield over his shoulder and hit it straight at a Birmingham player. Well too bad our forwards have scored pretty much a big fat zero goals for the last 10 games before yesterday then. It (usually) hasn't been McNally's fault we lose. We aren't scoring enough, that's our biggest problem. Not a few mistakes from a defender. I challenge you to find three goals he's been at fault for this season. I don't think you can. I don't know WTF people are expecting from a championship defender. McNally played for a play-off final side last season, he's more than good enough.
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Post by thanksjon on Dec 27, 2023 23:01:37 GMT
Hes decent but more importantly can improve.He is currently well worth his place.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Dec 27, 2023 23:06:23 GMT
Would love him here permanently but reckon Burnley will want him for next season back in the Championship. He has the odd fault in him, but if he didn’t he wouldn’t be here, you don’t get Maldini in the 2nd division.
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Post by nottsover60 on Dec 28, 2023 0:54:20 GMT
Not ones that could lead to a goal in a division where matches are often decided by one goal. He gave Millwall a chance to win on Saturday and last night at one point, instead of doing the simple thing and passing back to Bonham who he was facing, he tried to pass upfield over his shoulder and hit it straight at a Birmingham player. Well too bad our forwards have scored pretty much a big fat zero goals for the last 10 games before yesterday then. It (usually) hasn't been McNally's fault we lose. We aren't scoring enough, that's our biggest problem. Not a few mistakes from a defender. I challenge you to find three goals he's been at fault for this season. I don't think you can. I don't know WTF people are expecting from a championship defender. McNally played for a play-off final side last season, he's more than good enough. I get your point but Saturday and Tuesday he made two mistakes at important times in the match when he needed to be concentrating on getting things tight and not giving the opposition a chance. I actually thought Tuesday's was the worst. On Saturday he misjudged the flight of the ball. On Tuesday night he had a simple pass back to the goal keeper with no one near but chose to try to hit it forward over his shoulder hitting a Birmingham player in the process. Had the ball dropped kiny for him the forward would have had a clear run on goal and instead of being 2-0 it could have been 2-1. At the time I thought had that been Wilmot he would have been crucified on here but because it was Mcnally he got away with it. Both are 24 by the way. We seem to think Wilmot is a lot older than Mcnally.
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Post by idle on Dec 28, 2023 6:27:07 GMT
Well too bad our forwards have scored pretty much a big fat zero goals for the last 10 games before yesterday then. It (usually) hasn't been McNally's fault we lose. We aren't scoring enough, that's our biggest problem. Not a few mistakes from a defender. I challenge you to find three goals he's been at fault for this season. I don't think you can. I don't know WTF people are expecting from a championship defender. McNally played for a play-off final side last season, he's more than good enough. I get your point but Saturday and Tuesday he made two mistakes at important times in the match when he needed to be concentrating on getting things tight and not giving the opposition a chance. I actually thought Tuesday's was the worst. On Saturday he misjudged the flight of the ball. On Tuesday night he had a simple pass back to the goal keeper with no one near but chose to try to hit it forward over his shoulder hitting a Birmingham player in the process. Had the ball dropped kiny for him the forward would have had a clear run on goal and instead of being 2-0 it could have been 2-1. At the time I thought had that been Wilmot he would have been crucified on here but because it was Mcnally he got away with it. Both are 24 by the way. We seem to think Wilmot is a lot older than Mcnally. And my point is, defenders makes such small mistakes all the time, as do forwards. You can't count the number of times one of the forwards made the wrong decisions, like moving left instead of right, never mind waiting too long to pass in a counter. And I agree re: Wilmot. He gets far too much stick, but his mistakes usually lead to goals in the previous seasons, especially the first half of the 2021/22 season. He's also an average to good championship defender (there's a reason he always played under both MON and AN). But since he's not in the Aden Flint mould, the "strong big leader", he gets stick among quite a few one here. (My theory is that signing Flint was MONs big joke against the Oatcake!)
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Post by prestwichpotter on Dec 28, 2023 7:57:43 GMT
Averaging one big mistake a game, largely due to how casual he can be at times.
But if he can stay switched on he has all the attributes to be a very good ball playing centre half….
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 28, 2023 8:10:59 GMT
I get your point but Saturday and Tuesday he made two mistakes at important times in the match when he needed to be concentrating on getting things tight and not giving the opposition a chance. I actually thought Tuesday's was the worst. On Saturday he misjudged the flight of the ball. On Tuesday night he had a simple pass back to the goal keeper with no one near but chose to try to hit it forward over his shoulder hitting a Birmingham player in the process. Had the ball dropped kiny for him the forward would have had a clear run on goal and instead of being 2-0 it could have been 2-1. At the time I thought had that been Wilmot he would have been crucified on here but because it was Mcnally he got away with it. Both are 24 by the way. We seem to think Wilmot is a lot older than Mcnally. And my point is, defenders makes such small mistakes all the time, as do forwards. You can't count the number of times one of the forwards made the wrong decisions, like moving left instead of right, never mind waiting too long to pass in a counter. And I agree re: Wilmot. He gets far too much stick, but his mistakes usually lead to goals in the previous seasons, especially the first half of the 2021/22 season. He's also an average to good championship defender (there's a reason he always played under both MON and AN). But since he's not in the Aden Flint mould, the "strong big leader", he gets stick among quite a few one here. (My theory is that signing Flint was MONs big joke against the Oatcake!) The point is forwards need to do something more adventurous in order to create chances, are therefore more likely to make mistakes and are given the licence to do that because if they lose the ball it's not an immediate goal threat. Defenders aren't given that licence because if they make a mistake (and often it's because they have tried to do something adventurous rather than keep it simple) they are doing it in an area of the pitch where mistakes get punished. The very definition of a good defender is one that makes few mistakes. Forwards are given much more leeway in terms of mistakes providing they make and create chances. You can criticise forwards for not making or creating chances but you can't excuse defenders for making mistakes because the forwards do as well - the criteria for what makes a good defender is different to the criteria for what makes a good forward.
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Post by idle on Dec 28, 2023 8:56:24 GMT
And my point is, defenders makes such small mistakes all the time, as do forwards. You can't count the number of times one of the forwards made the wrong decisions, like moving left instead of right, never mind waiting too long to pass in a counter. And I agree re: Wilmot. He gets far too much stick, but his mistakes usually lead to goals in the previous seasons, especially the first half of the 2021/22 season. He's also an average to good championship defender (there's a reason he always played under both MON and AN). But since he's not in the Aden Flint mould, the "strong big leader", he gets stick among quite a few one here. (My theory is that signing Flint was MONs big joke against the Oatcake!) The point is forwards need to do something more adventurous in order to create chances, are therefore more likely to make mistakes and are given the licence to do that because if they lose the ball it's not an immediate goal threat. Defenders aren't given that licence because if they make a mistake (and often it's because they have tried to do something adventurous rather than keep it simple) they are doing it in an area of the pitch where mistakes get punished. The very definition of a good defender is one that makes few mistakes. Forwards are given much more leeway in terms of mistakes providing they make and create chances. You can criticise forwards for not making or creating chances but you can't excuse defenders for making mistakes because the forwards do as well - the criteria for what makes a good defender is different to the criteria for what makes a good forward. Sure, what counts as a mistake is different, but I disagree you can't compare number of mistakes. As an example, it's not a mistake if you (rightly) try to go past the defender and the defender makes a good tackle. It is however a mistake if you go right into two defenders instead of passing it left to the unmarked winger. At the same time, it's a mistake if you tackle and concede a free kick and it leads to a goal, even if that was the "safe" thing to do. You say that forwards are given liscence to be more adventurous, but that's down to team strategy. More risk gives more pressure on defenders. My real point is that championship defenders average far more than one mistake per game, and most of those comes from mistakes from the midfield or forwards not doing their jobs. In that regard, both McNally, and to a lesser degree Wilmot, are good championship defenders. Both would be poor in the PL I imagine, unless organized much more tightly.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 28, 2023 9:18:07 GMT
The point is forwards need to do something more adventurous in order to create chances, are therefore more likely to make mistakes and are given the licence to do that because if they lose the ball it's not an immediate goal threat. Defenders aren't given that licence because if they make a mistake (and often it's because they have tried to do something adventurous rather than keep it simple) they are doing it in an area of the pitch where mistakes get punished. The very definition of a good defender is one that makes few mistakes. Forwards are given much more leeway in terms of mistakes providing they make and create chances. You can criticise forwards for not making or creating chances but you can't excuse defenders for making mistakes because the forwards do as well - the criteria for what makes a good defender is different to the criteria for what makes a good forward. Sure, what counts as a mistake is different, but I disagree you can't compare number of mistakes. As an example, it's not a mistake if you (rightly) try to go past the defender and the defender makes a good tackle. It is however a mistake if you go right into two defenders instead of passing it left to the unmarked winger. At the same time, it's a mistake if you tackle and concede a free kick and it leads to a goal, even if that was the "safe" thing to do. You say that forwards are given liscence to be more adventurous, but that's down to team strategy. More risk gives more pressure on defenders. My real point is that championship defenders average far more than one mistake per game, and most of those comes from mistakes from the midfield or forwards not doing their jobs. In that regard, both McNally, and to a lesser degree Wilmot, are good championship defenders. Both would be poor in the PL I imagine, unless organized much more tightly. I completely disagree with your last paragraph. Our defenders aren't making mistakes because of the midfield and forwards they are making sloppy passes in dangerous positions that have absolutely nothing to do with the midfield and forwards. For me the reason Championship defenders make more mistakes is because they feel under pressure to be better with the ball than they actually are and take the riskier option rather than keep it simple. The very best defenders first and foremost make very few mistakes and have the footballing skills as an add on. A good defender makes very few mistakes but doesn't do the eye catching stuff. A poor defender makes mistakes on a regular basis and some (like Rose, Wilmott and McNally) are making those mistakes because they are trying too hard with the eye catching stuff. The eye catching stuff won't make them good defenders - they need to cut down drastically on the mistakes in order to be good defenders and once they've got that they can worry about the add ons. The reason why some people on here rate Wilmott and McNally is because they focus on the the eye catching stuff (which they can do) and forgive the mistakes. Others (me included) rate defenders on the basis of their ability to cut out the mistakes and see the eye catching stuff as a bonus. The two outlooks are incompatible - the only option is to agree to differ.
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Post by idle on Dec 28, 2023 10:01:29 GMT
I completely disagree with your last paragraph. Our defenders aren't making mistakes because of the midfield and forwards they are making sloppy passes in dangerous positions that have absolutely nothing to do with the midfield and forwards. For me the reason Championship defenders make more mistakes is because they feel under pressure to be better with the ball than they actually are and take the riskier option rather than keep it simple. The very best defenders first and foremost make very few mistakes and have the footballing skills as an add on. A good defender makes very few mistakes but doesn't do the eye catching stuff. A poor defender makes mistakes on a regular basis and some (like Rose, Wilmott and McNally) are making those mistakes because they are trying too hard with the eye catching stuff. The eye catching stuff won't make them good defenders - they need to cut down drastically on the mistakes in order to be good defenders and once they've got that they can worry about the add ons. The reason why some people on here rate Wilmott and McNally is because they focus on the the eye catching stuff (which they can do) and forgive the mistakes. Others (me included) rate defenders on the basis of their ability to cut out the mistakes and see the eye catching stuff as a bonus. The two outlooks are incompatible - the only option is to agree to differ. What you're calling "eye-catching stuff" is actually trying not to concede a throw-in. Or a corner. Or a free kick. Or having to punt the ball aimlessly forward (only to get it back 2 seconds later). You're not a good defender if you give the ball away all the time, even if it's better than losing the ball there and then (once in a while).
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Post by baconburger on Dec 28, 2023 10:06:51 GMT
The point is forwards need to do something more adventurous in order to create chances, are therefore more likely to make mistakes and are given the licence to do that because if they lose the ball it's not an immediate goal threat. Defenders aren't given that licence because if they make a mistake (and often it's because they have tried to do something adventurous rather than keep it simple) they are doing it in an area of the pitch where mistakes get punished. The very definition of a good defender is one that makes few mistakes. Forwards are given much more leeway in terms of mistakes providing they make and create chances. You can criticise forwards for not making or creating chances but you can't excuse defenders for making mistakes because the forwards do as well - the criteria for what makes a good defender is different to the criteria for what makes a good forward. Sure, what counts as a mistake is different, but I disagree you can't compare number of mistakes. As an example, it's not a mistake if you (rightly) try to go past the defender and the defender makes a good tackle. It is however a mistake if you go right into two defenders instead of passing it left to the unmarked winger. At the same time, it's a mistake if you tackle and concede a free kick and it leads to a goal, even if that was the "safe" thing to do. You say that forwards are given liscence to be more adventurous, but that's down to team strategy. More risk gives more pressure on defenders. My real point is that championship defenders average far more than one mistake per game, and most of those comes from mistakes from the midfield or forwards not doing their jobs. In that regard, both McNally, and to a lesser degree Wilmot, are good championship defenders. Both would be poor in the PL I imagine, unless organized much more tightly. What people class as mistakes fall into numerous catergories. Mental aberrations, we’ve seen quite a few of those. Put them down to the age and relative lack of experience of the players. Trying to do too much in the wrong areas. Looks great when it works and bloody awful when it doesn’t. It’s absolutely no different than we used to see from Abdoulay Faye it went wrong less often and he was a cult hero. Getting overpowered. These players are of slighter build than many of our fans seem to crave. It’s not actually a mistake or anything you can do that much about other than having bigger built players who normally have different drawbacks associated with them. Getting outpaced. The oldest one in the book and something again they can’t do too much about. Most of these things barring mental aberration are in the gift of the manager/coach/recruitment team. If you want players to be more risk adverse on the ball instruct them to play that way, if they won’t listen don’t pick them. The fact that we see them continually picked despite doing it says to me it’s how they’re encouraged to play. If you don’t want lean, mobile, footballing defenders recruit some lumbering collosuses instead. If you are afraid of the pace of opposition forwards drop off. Most of what a certain group of posters don’t like about our defence is by free choice. We have the experience (Clarke) we played him he was shit and made more mistakes than the youngsters. We had a big lumbering CB thought he was shit and sold him to Bristol Rovers. Players keep trying risky things on the ball in dangerous areas and stay on the pitch/keep getting picked tells you they aren’t instructed to play safety first football. It’s all pretty easily explainable and as our goals against column tells us nowhere near as bad as some folk make out.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 28, 2023 10:27:38 GMT
I completely disagree with your last paragraph. Our defenders aren't making mistakes because of the midfield and forwards they are making sloppy passes in dangerous positions that have absolutely nothing to do with the midfield and forwards. For me the reason Championship defenders make more mistakes is because they feel under pressure to be better with the ball than they actually are and take the riskier option rather than keep it simple. The very best defenders first and foremost make very few mistakes and have the footballing skills as an add on. A good defender makes very few mistakes but doesn't do the eye catching stuff. A poor defender makes mistakes on a regular basis and some (like Rose, Wilmott and McNally) are making those mistakes because they are trying too hard with the eye catching stuff. The eye catching stuff won't make them good defenders - they need to cut down drastically on the mistakes in order to be good defenders and once they've got that they can worry about the add ons. The reason why some people on here rate Wilmott and McNally is because they focus on the the eye catching stuff (which they can do) and forgive the mistakes. Others (me included) rate defenders on the basis of their ability to cut out the mistakes and see the eye catching stuff as a bonus. The two outlooks are incompatible - the only option is to agree to differ. What you're calling "eye-catching stuff" is actually trying not to concede a throw-in. Or a corner. Or a free kick. Or having to punt the ball aimlessly forward (only to get it back 2 seconds later). You're not a good defender if you give the ball away all the time, even if it's better than losing the ball there and then (once in a while). The "eye catching stuff" is taking on the forward in your own box and beating them, successfully playing a blind pass across the eighteen yard box, bursting through the midfield leaving a hole behind you, taking a couple of defy touches when under pressure and successfully threading a pass to a forward through a crowd of players. It all looks great when it comes off and the very best players are good enough to do it. Ours aren't and invariably set up the opposition. Putting the ball out of play, taking a foul for the team and punting the ball forward when under pressure are all perfectly reasonable things for a defender to do - it doesn't mean doing it all the time, just when it's the safe option. Especially when your success rate with the risky option is relatively low. I think your view of what our defenders should be doing is completely wrong and those "occasional" mistakes are costing us big time. I want my forwards to be exciting and my defenders as boring as you can get. Having said that I can live with either McNally or Wilmott playing alongside a no nonsense experienced CB who can bail them out and give them a bollocking when needed. It's playing two error prone CBs that freaks me out.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Dec 28, 2023 10:55:20 GMT
What you're calling "eye-catching stuff" is actually trying not to concede a throw-in. Or a corner. Or a free kick. Or having to punt the ball aimlessly forward (only to get it back 2 seconds later). You're not a good defender if you give the ball away all the time, even if it's better than losing the ball there and then (once in a while). The "eye catching stuff" is taking on the forward in your own box and beating them, successfully playing a blind pass across the eighteen yard box, bursting through the midfield leaving a hole behind you, taking a couple of defy touches when under pressure and successfully threading a pass to a forward through a crowd of players. It all looks great when it comes off and the very best players are good enough to do it. Ours aren't and invariably set up the opposition. Putting the ball out of play, taking a foul for the team and punting the ball forward when under pressure are all perfectly reasonable things for a defender to do - it doesn't mean doing it all the time, just when it's the safe option. Especially when your success rate with the risky option is relatively low. I think your view of what our defenders should be doing is completely wrong and those "occasional" mistakes are costing us big time. I want my forwards to be exciting and my defenders as boring as you can get. Having said that I can live with either McNally or Wilmott playing alongside a no nonsense experienced CB who can bail them out and give them a bollocking when needed. It's playing two error prone CBs that freaks me out. To say they're 'error prone' is way OTT. Even Rose who I don't rate at all isn't 'error prone' that suggests he just commits error after error and that isn't the case. I just don't think he's very good. McNally I do rate and although he does make the odd mistake it's because (as someone mentioned above) he's clearly being told to play the ball out which lays him open to the greater risk of a mistake. The irony is one of the mistakes being highlighted was the one on Tuesday where he mucked up a big industrial hoof when it would have been easier to play the ball the way he was facing back to the goal keeper. As has been said our defence hasn't been too bad statistically speaking it's just that because of our lack of goals scored every defensive/goalkeeping blunder is exaggerated because it punishes us badly. Using Tuesday as an example. Their goal was a catalogue of defensive howlers involving Hoever, Rose and to a lesser extent Bonham but because we were 3-0 up at the time it wasn't as crucial as the Shef Weds or Swansea goals.
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Post by baconburger on Dec 28, 2023 11:22:40 GMT
The "eye catching stuff" is taking on the forward in your own box and beating them, successfully playing a blind pass across the eighteen yard box, bursting through the midfield leaving a hole behind you, taking a couple of defy touches when under pressure and successfully threading a pass to a forward through a crowd of players. It all looks great when it comes off and the very best players are good enough to do it. Ours aren't and invariably set up the opposition. Putting the ball out of play, taking a foul for the team and punting the ball forward when under pressure are all perfectly reasonable things for a defender to do - it doesn't mean doing it all the time, just when it's the safe option. Especially when your success rate with the risky option is relatively low. I think your view of what our defenders should be doing is completely wrong and those "occasional" mistakes are costing us big time. I want my forwards to be exciting and my defenders as boring as you can get. Having said that I can live with either McNally or Wilmott playing alongside a no nonsense experienced CB who can bail them out and give them a bollocking when needed. It's playing two error prone CBs that freaks me out. To say they're 'error prone' is way OTT. Even Rose who I don't rate at all isn't 'error prone' that suggests he just commits error after error and that isn't the case. I just don't think he's very good. McNally I do rate and although he does make the odd mistake it's because (as someone mentioned above) he's clearly being told to play the ball out which lays him open to the greater risk of a mistake. The irony is one of the mistakes being highlighted was the one on Tuesday where he mucked up a big industrial hoof when it would have been easier to play the ball the way he was facing back to the goal keeper. As has been said our defence hasn't been too bad statistically speaking it's just that because of our lack of goals scored every defensive/goalkeeping blunder is exaggerated because it punishes us badly. Using Tuesday as an example. Their goal was a catalogue of defensive howlers involving Hoever, Rose and to a lesser extent Bonham but because we were 3-0 up at the time it wasn't as crucial as the Shef Weds or Swansea goals. No idea how Bonham comes out of that as the least culpable. He’s pushed the ball out right in front of him 3 times in the last 2 games but yes scoring a normal amount of goals and we’d be looking at things in a different light. I think people have just made their mind up about players and blow the mistakes out of all proportion and overlook the mistakes of the ones or types they favour. Jagielka last season was a classic example , complete fucking liability but for those who favour an old head they just refuse to see it “He played for England”. Those who favour a more physical specimen somehow managed to see a player in Conner Taylor when all I could see was a lumbering oaf. Your tastes affect your judgement enormously.
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Post by idle on Dec 28, 2023 11:35:38 GMT
What you're calling "eye-catching stuff" is actually trying not to concede a throw-in. Or a corner. Or a free kick. Or having to punt the ball aimlessly forward (only to get it back 2 seconds later). You're not a good defender if you give the ball away all the time, even if it's better than losing the ball there and then (once in a while). The "eye catching stuff" is taking on the forward in your own box and beating them, successfully playing a blind pass across the eighteen yard box, bursting through the midfield leaving a hole behind you, taking a couple of defy touches when under pressure and successfully threading a pass to a forward through a crowd of players. It all looks great when it comes off and the very best players are good enough to do it. Ours aren't and invariably set up the opposition. Putting the ball out of play, taking a foul for the team and punting the ball forward when under pressure are all perfectly reasonable things for a defender to do - it doesn't mean doing it all the time, just when it's the safe option. Especially when your success rate with the risky option is relatively low. I think your view of what our defenders should be doing is completely wrong and those "occasional" mistakes are costing us big time. I want my forwards to be exciting and my defenders as boring as you can get. Except for the "taking extra touches" McNally hasn't done any of those. His choices are try to control the ball and get it to a teammate/goalie, or a row Z clearance. Sometimes he clears, depending on the situation. But you don't clear for no reason other than trying to "be boring". You clear when you have no other (sane) choice. If not, you're just giving the ball away. Wilmot was prone to the forward run, but his partners (fullback or CB or DM) should be smart enough to cover that area when he does. I'm guessing the manager told him to as well, it's part of a strategy. No one complained when Souttar did it.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Dec 28, 2023 11:35:57 GMT
To say they're 'error prone' is way OTT. Even Rose who I don't rate at all isn't 'error prone' that suggests he just commits error after error and that isn't the case. I just don't think he's very good. McNally I do rate and although he does make the odd mistake it's because (as someone mentioned above) he's clearly being told to play the ball out which lays him open to the greater risk of a mistake. The irony is one of the mistakes being highlighted was the one on Tuesday where he mucked up a big industrial hoof when it would have been easier to play the ball the way he was facing back to the goal keeper. As has been said our defence hasn't been too bad statistically speaking it's just that because of our lack of goals scored every defensive/goalkeeping blunder is exaggerated because it punishes us badly. Using Tuesday as an example. Their goal was a catalogue of defensive howlers involving Hoever, Rose and to a lesser extent Bonham but because we were 3-0 up at the time it wasn't as crucial as the Shef Weds or Swansea goals. No idea how Bonham comes out of that as the least culpable. He’s pushed the ball out right in front of him 3 times in the last 2 games but yes scoring a normal amount of goals and we’d be looking at things in a different light. I think people have just made their mind up about players and blow the mistakes out of all proportion and overlook the mistakes of the ones or types they favour. Jagielka last season was a classic example , complete fucking liability but for those who favour an old head they just refuse to see it “He played for England”. Those who favour a more physical specimen somehow managed to see a player in Conner Taylor when all I could see was a lumbering oaf. Your tastes affect your judgement enormously. I absolved Bonham slightly because he did actually make the save but you're not wrong he does have a habit of 'doing a Pickford' and pushing the ball out into the middle of the box. Hoever and Rose have no such mitigation, both very poor and weak as piss for their goal. We hated Flint and Baath because they were blood and thunder centre backs with no finesse (they were shite as well mind) but we can't seem to accept the odd error from a young ball playing centre back. We're mental aren't we? So to jump to the other thread, we need a keeper and a striker in January. We can live with what we've got at the back if Wilmot is close to return as well, and if McNally is available on a permanent at the right price I wouldn't be against his signing.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Dec 28, 2023 11:43:43 GMT
We're priming him so he'll be in top form for our rivals next season.
He's getting better but illustrates why we should avoid this type of signing.
At the start of the season he was unproven at this level and his inconsistent performances have cost us dearly.
He's now getting better but it's too late for us to have a good season. We can only hope to avoid relegation.
But he'll be in good form when he faces us next season
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Post by idle on Dec 28, 2023 12:23:31 GMT
We're priming him so he'll be in top form for our rivals next season. He's getting better but illustrates why we should avoid this type of signing. At the start of the season he was unproven at this level and his inconsistent performances have cost us dearly. He's now getting better but it's too late for us to have a good season. We can only hope to avoid relegation. But he'll be in good form when he faces us next season Eh? He was a mainstay for Coventry, who reached the play-off final last season. He's not a rookie we're taking from the cradle. He's just not premiership level yet.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 28, 2023 12:36:10 GMT
1 win in 10 is it and the defence has "got better results" lol I know, the shit some people come out with to justify an irrational agenda is incredible isn't it? 🤣 Horseshit Our best CB this season, and Burger’s friend, sign him. We’ve tried a lot of different back line configurations this season and the best we’ve looked was McNally and Rose in a back four. McNally and Wilmot have only had 2.5 games as a pair though (1 win and 2 losses) so, they didn’t have much time working together. And with Wilmot, McNally, and Rose as a back three, 1 win, 2 losses, 1 draw. However, with McNally and Rose as a pair we have 4 wins, 5 draws, and 1 loss. That’s a very good record. Improving the back four should be a priority, but no one in our current squad should start ahead of McNally or Rose.
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