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Post by baconburger on Dec 24, 2023 19:42:06 GMT
As it stands both Mmaee and Vidigal are looking pretty poor. Their rolling around on the floor antics are particularly annoying. Jacob Brown looked like a world beater compared to these pair and they need to up their game considerably. It is a sad situation where I would prefer Brown to absolutely any of our current front players. What he lacked in skill, he at least tried to make up for in effort. Unfortunately they are not alone, I don't see skill or effort from any of our current crop of front players and others and was really expecting so much more from the likes of Mmaee, Vidigal, Leris, Johnson et al. What a complete disappointment our front line recruitment,in particular, has been. Maybe 5 or 6 maximum (and that's being generous) of the total 19 summer and later influx looking anything like they could do a good job for us. My 5 or 6 being Gooch, Burger, Junho, Junior, Pearson, when he isn't getting stupid unnecessary bookings and also McNally (loan and likely to be recalled in January) most of the time, when he isn't having brain farts like he did today. Where did it all go so wrong? Probably agree with those 5 or 6, but even they have just been acceptable at this level and not much more for me. We really are up shit creek if McNally goes back - I make that 1 viable fit central defender in the squad if that were to happen and you just know this clueless lot would not bring in anybody come the window to replace him. 24pts from 23 games is relegation form, 4 or 5pts from the last 9 games is bottom of the table form and we are not here because we have a great squad of players. We have now brought in a young manager with virtually no experience at this level as player or manager(or even as a manager full stop) to try and sort out what is a calamitous club from top to bottom - you really couldn't write this stuff. We have to look deeper than the manager/head coach or whatever he is called these days - the current setup has relegation written all over it and I have zero hope that this is the correct manager for the current situation or that we are capable of bringing in the players needed to keep the club from a relegation battle - changes needed from the top down. There isn’t a single whisper about McNally being recalled, just paranoia in a poster’s imagination.
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Post by march4 on Dec 24, 2023 19:46:59 GMT
2 goals in half a season. He was injured for 2 and a half months of it. 2 goals in half a season! Even Campbell has 2 and he’s been injured virtually all season. And Nathan Lowe has one from half an hour on the pitch.
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Post by idle on Dec 24, 2023 22:00:19 GMT
A bit worrying that Schumacher thinks Mmaee was brilliant yesterday. He’s why we are not a threat up front. Maybe if he played alongside a target man he might be better, but feigning injury , not tackling back just making a token effort and he did lose the ball every time it was played up to him. I’m not convinced we have a striker in him. Typical foreign powder puff frightened of getting stuck in player, im afraid. He didn't lose every ball played up to him. Not even close. He laid off plenty and was given a number of free kicks (unless you count being fouled as having lost the challenged - I think the opposite). He consistently went into challenges where he was likely to get wiped out in a challenge. Not sure the purpose of the "typical foreign" comment. Its not the 1950s. As we all know, there aren't any big, strong, dirty defenders in Italy, Germany or Spain...
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Post by baconburger on Dec 24, 2023 22:07:17 GMT
He didn't lose every ball played up to him. Not even close. He laid off plenty and was given a number of free kicks (unless you count being fouled as having lost the challenged - I think the opposite). He consistently went into challenges where he was likely to get wiped out in a challenge. Not sure the purpose of the "typical foreign" comment. Its not the 1950s. As we all know, there aren't any big, strong, dirty defenders in Italy, Germany or Spain... TBF those leagues were beyond Mmaee’s wildest dreams. Even in the backwater Hungarian league his motivation was being questioned.
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Post by idle on Dec 24, 2023 22:36:43 GMT
As we all know, there aren't any big, strong, dirty defenders in Italy, Germany or Spain... TBF those leagues were beyond Mmaee’s wildest dreams. Even in the backwater Hungarian league his motivation was being questioned. True. But my comment was more general about the "Typical foreign powder puff frightened of getting stuck in" view. I don't think he's afraid of getting stuck in, I just think he's not used to playing like that. He's already better at it than a couple of months ago. Such changes in playing style takes time, as all players act mostly on instinct.
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Post by baconburger on Dec 24, 2023 22:56:48 GMT
TBF those leagues were beyond Mmaee’s wildest dreams. Even in the backwater Hungarian league his motivation was being questioned. True. But my comment was more general about the "Typical foreign powder puff frightened of getting stuck in" view. I don't think he's afraid of getting stuck in, I just think he's not used to playing like that. He's already better at it than a couple of months ago. Such changes in playing style takes time, as all players act mostly on instinct. Well instinct is another major problem because he doesn’t seem to have any. I don’t think being powder puff is typical or exclusive to foreign players. Far far better players than Mmaee have come to England and not been able to adapt. Tyreece’s old man was a bustling hulk of a CF and despite a good frame he just hasn’t got that in his locker, you can just see he really doesn’t like the physically combative element. I don’t think Mmaee ever will he reminds me a lot of Joselu who despite his stature was a big Fanny, when he was here people said Hughes didn’t give him a fair chance but he went to Newcastle and was the same there. Call it instinct but you can just see when they really don’t fancy it right from the off.
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Post by idle on Dec 25, 2023 8:32:25 GMT
True. But my comment was more general about the "Typical foreign powder puff frightened of getting stuck in" view. I don't think he's afraid of getting stuck in, I just think he's not used to playing like that. He's already better at it than a couple of months ago. Such changes in playing style takes time, as all players act mostly on instinct. Well instinct is another major problem because he doesn’t seem to have any. I don’t think being powder puff is typical or exclusive to foreign players. Far far better players than Mmaee have come to England and not been able to adapt. Tyreece’s old man was a bustling hulk of a CF and despite a good frame he just hasn’t got that in his locker, you can just see he really doesn’t like the physically combative element. I don’t think Mmaee ever will he reminds me a lot of Joselu who despite his stature was a big Fanny, when he was here people said Hughes didn’t give him a fair chance but he went to Newcastle and was the same there. Call it instinct but you can just see when they really don’t fancy it right from the off. I disagree, because he's a skillful player. He's never gonna be a "big strong runner" striker. I know we should have one, but Mmaee isn't it. Mmaee is the same player type as Campbell. And we all know people on here hate that type of player. You know, with ball control skills. Always seen as lazy because they don't chase every lost cause and win every header. We saw it vs. Rotherham - the excellent first touch setting up the second touch finish. That's what Mmaee can do. But I don't think he's a poacher either. I can see he's always looking for a teammate unless straight through on goal. No one seems to remember, but when we signed him, he was said to be a "false 9" striker. But that role needs at least two more attacking players who can use the space opened up by the F9. That's why I think he's being used incorrectly when played as a traditional no.9. He looks isolated. I think our forward line after the transfer window should be Mmaee - New striker - Campbell when everyone's fit. Or switch to the 4-1-4-1 that Digards Nice uses - they have 4 attacking players in addition to the striker (an F9, or if needed, a target man).
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Post by baconburger on Dec 25, 2023 9:11:44 GMT
Well instinct is another major problem because he doesn’t seem to have any. I don’t think being powder puff is typical or exclusive to foreign players. Far far better players than Mmaee have come to England and not been able to adapt. Tyreece’s old man was a bustling hulk of a CF and despite a good frame he just hasn’t got that in his locker, you can just see he really doesn’t like the physically combative element. I don’t think Mmaee ever will he reminds me a lot of Joselu who despite his stature was a big Fanny, when he was here people said Hughes didn’t give him a fair chance but he went to Newcastle and was the same there. Call it instinct but you can just see when they really don’t fancy it right from the off. I disagree, because he's a skillful player. He's never gonna be a "big strong runner" striker. I know we should have one, but Mmaee isn't it. Mmaee is the same player type as Campbell. And we all know people on here hate that type of player. You know, with ball control skills. Always seen as lazy because they don't chase every lost cause and win every header. We saw it vs. Rotherham - the excellent first touch setting up the second touch finish. That's what Mmaee can do. But I don't think he's a poacher either. I can see he's always looking for a teammate unless straight through on goal. No one seems to remember, but when we signed him, he was said to be a "false 9" striker. But that role needs at least two more attacking players who can use the space opened up by the F9. That's why I think he's being used incorrectly when played as a traditional no.9. He looks isolated. I think our forward line after the transfer window should be Mmaee - New striker - Campbell when everyone's fit. Or switch to the 4-1-4-1 that Digards Nice uses - they have 4 attacking players in addition to the striker (an F9, or if needed, a target man). I don’t even like headless chicken type players but I do want a CF who relishes the physical battle and neither Mmaee or Campbell are it. I prefer Campbell as a player, I just haven’t liked the look of Mmaee since the first time I saw him. Seeing as his fee has about as much again in add ons I think I’d cut my losses on him to make sure we don’t end up paying any of them. Why turn a £1.75M mistake into a £3.5M mistake. Vidigal is less of a problem as it’s a smaller fee but if we can get him back into some sort of form in the spring I’d look to take a profit on him too and try to find someone more robust. We have to live in the real world we play in the championship not the premier league or the French or other continental leagues. Even skilful players have to be able to take the hard knocks get up dust themselves down and have the heart to go at them again knowing more of the same is coming and I just don’t think either of them are.
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Post by idle on Dec 25, 2023 10:37:09 GMT
I don’t even like headless chicken type players but I do want a CF who relishes the physical battle and neither Mmaee or Campbell are it. I prefer Campbell as a player, I just haven’t liked the look of Mmaee since the first time I saw him. Seeing as his fee has about as much again in add ons I think I’d cut my losses on him to make sure we don’t end up paying any of them. Why turn a £1.75M mistake into a £3.5M mistake. Vidigal is less of a problem as it’s a smaller fee but if we can get him back into some sort of form in the spring I’d look to take a profit on him too and try to find someone more robust. We have to live in the real world we play in the championship not the premier league or the French or other continental leagues. Even skilful players have to be able to take the hard knocks get up dust themselves down and have the heart to go at them again knowing more of the same is coming and I just don’t think either of them are. And this is where I differ from you. Mmaee does get up every time and battle on. But when that barbarian Cooper keeps showing you in the back with both arms and the ref only sees it half the times, it's not easy being a lone striker. But playing with a lone single striker isn't a natural law. He would play much better with more support. I'm kinda surprised you of all people like the dumb brute kind of football so much. I thought you liked attacking football, not knock it 60 yards and pray football.
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Post by baconburger on Dec 25, 2023 16:22:06 GMT
I don’t even like headless chicken type players but I do want a CF who relishes the physical battle and neither Mmaee or Campbell are it. I prefer Campbell as a player, I just haven’t liked the look of Mmaee since the first time I saw him. Seeing as his fee has about as much again in add ons I think I’d cut my losses on him to make sure we don’t end up paying any of them. Why turn a £1.75M mistake into a £3.5M mistake. Vidigal is less of a problem as it’s a smaller fee but if we can get him back into some sort of form in the spring I’d look to take a profit on him too and try to find someone more robust. We have to live in the real world we play in the championship not the premier league or the French or other continental leagues. Even skilful players have to be able to take the hard knocks get up dust themselves down and have the heart to go at them again knowing more of the same is coming and I just don’t think either of them are. And this is where I differ from you. Mmaee does get up every time and battle on. But when that barbarian Cooper keeps showing you in the back with both arms and the ref only sees it half the times, it's not easy being a lone striker. But playing with a lone single striker isn't a natural law. He would play much better with more support. I'm kinda surprised you of all people like the dumb brute kind of football so much. I thought you liked attacking football, not knock it 60 yards and pray football. I have attributes I desire in certain positions. In central strikers it’s pace or power in a perfect world both. I want the opposition CB’s to be occupied and pressurised constantly. I don’t like CF’s drifting all over the pitch. I don’t care if Harry Kane does it. Batter them and wear them down. If you can’t score or make a goal make sure their CB’s come off the pitch looking like they’ve been 15 rounds.
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Post by wherty on Dec 25, 2023 16:56:42 GMT
Vidigal will be a totally different player under SS.
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Post by nottinghamstokie on Dec 25, 2023 19:23:13 GMT
Can you see enough goals in the changing room? Schumacher: Absolutely. But again, you’ve got to get people in the right positions. The eights have got to score more goals, they’ve got to get forward and get into dangerous areas. I thought Ryan Mmaee, by the way, was brilliant. I know he didn't score but his all-round game today was excellent. He led the line for 90 minutes on his own. I think he gave the ball away once, maybe twice in the whole game, and he was a threat all the time and just the shots that he had unfortunately were blocked. If he keeps putting himself in those positions, he'll score the goals that were going to need. www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-millwall-live-stream-8993313I think he’s being very generous about today but agree with the sentiment for sure. For me, SS is being a canny Manager - he must hear the groans and negativity around Mmaee, so is attempting to build him up and give him confidence, whether or not he believes it .
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Post by blackpoolred on Dec 25, 2023 19:38:58 GMT
Probably agree with those 5 or 6, but even they have just been acceptable at this level and not much more for me. We really are up shit creek if McNally goes back - I make that 1 viable fit central defender in the squad if that were to happen and you just know this clueless lot would not bring in anybody come the window to replace him. 24pts from 23 games is relegation form, 4 or 5pts from the last 9 games is bottom of the table form and we are not here because we have a great squad of players. We have now brought in a young manager with virtually no experience at this level as player or manager(or even as a manager full stop) to try and sort out what is a calamitous club from top to bottom - you really couldn't write this stuff. We have to look deeper than the manager/head coach or whatever he is called these days - the current setup has relegation written all over it and I have zero hope that this is the correct manager for the current situation or that we are capable of bringing in the players needed to keep the club from a relegation battle - changes needed from the top down. There isn’t a single whisper about McNally being recalled, just paranoia in a poster’s imagination. Is it paranoia to speculate that a club with injury worries and the worst defence in the prem league might want their defender back. Go on their fanzine and there has been one or two supporters saying they should recall him. This is Stoke the first club in the world to have an eighth choice goalkeeper recalled in the middle of a loan period
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Post by peterthornesboots on Dec 26, 2023 0:01:54 GMT
Well instinct is another major problem because he doesn’t seem to have any. I don’t think being powder puff is typical or exclusive to foreign players. Far far better players than Mmaee have come to England and not been able to adapt. Tyreece’s old man was a bustling hulk of a CF and despite a good frame he just hasn’t got that in his locker, you can just see he really doesn’t like the physically combative element. I don’t think Mmaee ever will he reminds me a lot of Joselu who despite his stature was a big Fanny, when he was here people said Hughes didn’t give him a fair chance but he went to Newcastle and was the same there. Call it instinct but you can just see when they really don’t fancy it right from the off. I disagree, because he's a skillful player. He's never gonna be a "big strong runner" striker. I know we should have one, but Mmaee isn't it. Mmaee is the same player type as Campbell. And we all know people on here hate that type of player. You know, with ball control skills. Always seen as lazy because they don't chase every lost cause and win every header. We saw it vs. Rotherham - the excellent first touch setting up the second touch finish. That's what Mmaee can do. But I don't think he's a poacher either. I can see he's always looking for a teammate unless straight through on goal. No one seems to remember, but when we signed him, he was said to be a "false 9" striker. But that role needs at least two more attacking players who can use the space opened up by the F9. That's why I think he's being used incorrectly when played as a traditional no.9. He looks isolated. I think our forward line after the transfer window should be Mmaee - New striker - Campbell when everyone's fit. Or switch to the 4-1-4-1 that Digards Nice uses - they have 4 attacking players in addition to the striker (an F9, or if needed, a target man). I agree that Mmaee is being used in a way which is not maximising his potential at the moment. He does not strike me as someone that will excel as a lone forward who has to spend most of the game with his back to goal. I like the look of Mmaee and Cambell playing either side of a more traditional and mobile centre forward. Ultimately, this squad is almost completely devoid of goals and creativity. Mmaee looks like one of the few players we currently have who looks like creating something. I imagine that working out how to get the most out of Mmaee will be top of SS's priority list at the moment.
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Post by idle on Dec 26, 2023 9:35:42 GMT
And this is where I differ from you. Mmaee does get up every time and battle on. But when that barbarian Cooper keeps showing you in the back with both arms and the ref only sees it half the times, it's not easy being a lone striker. But playing with a lone single striker isn't a natural law. He would play much better with more support. I'm kinda surprised you of all people like the dumb brute kind of football so much. I thought you liked attacking football, not knock it 60 yards and pray football. I have attributes I desire in certain positions. In central strikers it’s pace or power in a perfect world both. I want the opposition CB’s to be occupied and pressurised constantly. I don’t like CF’s drifting all over the pitch. I don’t care if Harry Kane does it. Batter them and wear them down. If you can’t score or make a goal make sure their CB’s come off the pitch looking like they’ve been 15 rounds. Sure, that's why I said I wanted him to play on the side with a new striker in the centre, and switch sides with Campbell or Vidigal. As long as we play with three up front (or in a 4231) my choice for the forward roles would be LW: Mmaee, CF: Lowe, RW: Campbell, (AM: Bae). Haks or Vidi in for Campbell until he's back. At this point I want us to try Lowe as the CF again, as he'll have no pressure and just a couple of games before we get another in (and probably highlight the need for a new striker). We need to support him as well though, otherwise he'll fall through just like Mmaee. Wesley is the obvious choice, but IMO he's not mobile or good enough in the air to master the role. I haven't seen enough of Tezgel to know which role he's suited for, but he's ahead of Gayle. Vidigal is out of form, but so is Haks, so a toss up between them who's after Mmaee in the queue. But as for wandering CFs, it's a good strategy IF you have other attacking players keeping the CBs occupied, but it definitely has it's downsides. As an example, in the championship, where defenders all seem to come in the Aden Flint mold, a mobile CF that drifts into the AM position while the AM attacks the CBs along with one of the centre midfielders (the box-to-box role). IMO Johnson is probably our best choice B2B, even if Laurent also plays in that role.
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Post by nott1 on Dec 26, 2023 9:51:07 GMT
Neither players are showing that they are the answer to our striker problem. Spend peanuts and what do you get.......?
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Dec 26, 2023 10:43:52 GMT
These two would be ok in league 1. Neither are good enough.
I've hardly noticed either of them for the last few months
Crap
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Post by bertiestan on Dec 26, 2023 10:51:58 GMT
Vidigal was the Messiah a few weeks ago...now after a few weeks injured and the team/squad in absolute disarray with the manager being sacked we should send him to league one🤦🏼♂️🙄 you lot really are unreal...some of you really do deserve to support a league two club n nothing more small minded goons...hope you get more joy out of your eggnog than you do supporting Stoke...UTP🔴⚪
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Post by bertiestan on Dec 26, 2023 10:52:35 GMT
These two would be ok in league 1. Neither are good enough. I've hardly noticed either of them for the last few months Crap They've been fucking injured...omfg🤦🏼♂️🙄
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Post by bertiestan on Dec 26, 2023 10:54:43 GMT
I think he’s being very generous about today but agree with the sentiment for sure. For me, SS is being a canny Manager - he must hear the groans and negativity around Mmaee, so is attempting to build him up and give him confidence, whether or not he believes it . No he's just managing the team🤷🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Dec 26, 2023 11:01:17 GMT
These two would be ok in league 1. Neither are good enough. I've hardly noticed either of them for the last few months Crap They've been fucking injured...omfg🤦🏼♂️🙄 I know berytiestan, but they've still had over 15-16 appearances each with virtually zero impact this last few months. I have more hope for Vidigal, he was superb at the start and is still recovering from injury and not getting in a rhythm, but we've needed more effort from him. Mmaee has a nice touch but no hunger or desire. Always on his heels when a ball goes into the box, hiding behind a defender. He's shit. The one against Swansea when he was on his heels, if he'd been competent he'd have been ready for it and tapped it in. My six year old would have scored that
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Post by collo68 on Dec 26, 2023 11:04:56 GMT
Vidigal was the Messiah a few weeks ago...now after a few weeks injured and the team/squad in absolute disarray with the manager being sacked we should send him to league one🤦🏼♂️🙄 you lot really are unreal...some of you really do deserve to support a league two club n nothing more small minded goons...hope you get more joy out of your eggnog than you do supporting Stoke...UTP🔴⚪ They used to slag of Brown and Doughty after he only played about two games and now they are both doing ok in the Premier League so I wouldn’t let them get you down, very frustrating though this board with some of the garbage written
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 26, 2023 11:10:25 GMT
I think he’s being very generous about today but agree with the sentiment for sure. For me, SS is being a canny Manager - he must hear the groans and negativity around Mmaee, so is attempting to build him up and give him confidence, whether or not he believes it . I think he's just telling it like it is and ignoring those moaning because he doesn't go smashing into defenders, he was fine and played one of the best balls of the game after holding off two or three of theirs, that seems to have gone unnoticed though and soon shut up those around me at the game that were already moaning before the ball even reached him.
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Post by gingerninja on Dec 26, 2023 11:19:17 GMT
Not sure what is happening with Tezgel, don't see him in any of the training sessions with the first team, he supposedly been playing under 18 and under 21 football, yet no sign of him in or around the first team or on the bench?.
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Post by bertiestan on Dec 26, 2023 11:23:09 GMT
I don't think we should be judging anyone just yet until we've seen them under the new regime...it was clear they were all being stifled by Neil n they basically downed tools til he was going..From what ive seen Vidigal n Mmaee are definitely good enough imo.
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Post by cvillestokie on Dec 26, 2023 12:39:31 GMT
I don't think we should be judging anyone just yet until we've seen them under the new regime...it was clear they were all being stifled by Neil n they basically downed tools til he was going..From what ive seen Vidigal n Mmaee are definitely good enough imo. If they “downed tools”, they should be judged very critically. I don’t believe that was the case. I simply think AN didn’t have much of an idea of how to play the players to their relative strengths.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 26, 2023 13:00:54 GMT
They aren’t equipped as footballers for thus league full stop , if they are adding to that with poor attitude it makes little difference they just dont the basics for this level
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Post by bertiestan on Dec 26, 2023 13:59:48 GMT
I don't think we should be judging anyone just yet until we've seen them under the new regime...it was clear they were all being stifled by Neil n they basically downed tools til he was going..From what ive seen Vidigal n Mmaee are definitely good enough imo. If they “downed tools”, they should be judged very critically. I don’t believe that was the case. I simply think AN didn’t have much of an idea of how to play the players to their relative strengths. It goes on at every club... you'd be naive to think otherwise
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Post by cvillestokie on Dec 26, 2023 14:01:50 GMT
If they “downed tools”, they should be judged very critically. I don’t believe that was the case. I simply think AN didn’t have much of an idea of how to play the players to their relative strengths. It goes on at every club... you'd be naive to think otherwise And I think it’s incredibly wrong and not something that should be considered lightly if it actually were the case.
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Post by stokie1 on Dec 26, 2023 14:41:47 GMT
...need to be sent out on loan to a Division One club to learn the basics of English football. Lightweight is an understatement. As for Leris, Division Two maybe? Mmaee is hopeless. Vidigal has potential
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