|
Post by mickeythemaestro on Apr 18, 2024 8:27:34 GMT
Except its not bollox at all is it. Sacking managers every 16 weeks is a terrible plan. Thinking someone is going to come in and sort our mess out in 16 weeks is bollox. The current owners were the owners that didn't sack Pulis after 16 weeks. And as I recall that lead to 10 years in the Premier league. Am I happy with what JC has produced this last 7 years....of course not. I'm hopeful he's implementing changes and he's decided a young manager who has demonstrated he can win a league title and produced 20 wins in 23 home games last season is a reasonable punt to make. And thankfully unlike you he's going to give him more than 16 weeks to prove it. I don't know if it'll work. I hope to fuck it does. And I'll most definitely remember you should he make a roaring success of it all... So you don’t like the churn but want to keep the reason of the churn. Makes sense. No. I just accept reality. They own the club and don't look likely to relinquish that ownership anytime soon. So there's literally no point fantasising about people worth 10bn quid selling up cos bayern oatcake who knows best wants them to. And little point whining on here that random other dude with deep pockets buys us and gives you your wish of sacking a promising manager whose been in post for 16 weeks. I used to be a know it all just like you and even boycotted Stoke when those idiots brought Pulis back....
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 18, 2024 8:36:52 GMT
So you don’t like the churn but want to keep the reason of the churn. Makes sense. No. I just accept reality. They own the club and don't look likely to relinquish that ownership anytime soon. So there's literally no point fantasising about people worth 10bn quid selling up cos bayern oatcake who knows best wants them to. And little point whining on here that random other dude with deep pockets buys us and gives you your wish of sacking a promising manager whose been in post for 16 weeks. I used to be a know it all just like you and even boycotted Stoke when those idiots brought Pulis back.... You accept failure.
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Apr 18, 2024 8:39:53 GMT
What happens at every other club bar Stoke? Managers make an instant change. It doesn’t happen every time but it happens a lot. We’ve tried it how many times now and have the same bollocks excuses. So to be clear, not every time? Understood.
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Apr 18, 2024 8:41:26 GMT
He'd make a good manager but can't be arsed. True story. I’d have won more than 2 home games so far. True story. If only you could have been arsed.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 18, 2024 8:50:57 GMT
Managers make an instant change. It doesn’t happen every time but it happens a lot. We’ve tried it how many times now and have the same bollocks excuses. So to be clear, not every time? Understood. I never said every time.
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Apr 18, 2024 8:53:09 GMT
So to be clear, not every time? Understood. I never said every time. That’s just bollocks.
It happens at every other club bar ours.
|
|
|
Post by foxysgloves on Apr 18, 2024 8:54:25 GMT
What happens at every other club bar Stoke? Managers make an instant change. It doesn’t happen every time but it happens a lot. We’ve tried it how many times now and have the same bollocks excuses. Did Mark Hughes make an instant change?
|
|
|
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Apr 18, 2024 8:55:47 GMT
Pretty sure MON took us off the bottom of the table instantly to safety after a horrendous run of results under Jones but again that wouldn't suit your sad agenda
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 18, 2024 9:05:31 GMT
I think Schumacher has the potential to be a decent manager but it was a mistake to appoint him in the situation we were in because he hasn't got the experience to deal with it. At Plymouth he inherited a stable club on the up and ran with it - the situation here was the polar opposite. It was always a Mad Nath style wishful thinking appointment and very likely to go wrong. The fact he isn't doing any worse is an achievement and better than what Jones managed.
The atmosphere behind the scenes looks to have improved but he really hasn't made much of an impact on the pitch - we are still woefully inconsistent, capable of conceding stupid goals and incapable of creating and taking many scoring chances. The football is a better watch at times but the results haven't improved much.
I think it's 50/50 whether we stay up and if we do stay up he deserves a chance next season to show what he can do. If we go down I'm not convinced he's the right man for the job.
I don't blame Schumacher for struggling - we were and are in a bad place and most managers would have struggled. I don't get the high handed expectation of some supporters that we were just there to be turned around and he's failed to do something dead easy so therefore he must be crap. He's not crap - the team he inherited just isn't very good and he doesn't have the experience to work out how to get the best from what he's got. Which is what you get if you go for a manager with very little experience and no experience of dealing with a team in a relegation battle. It was a very risky appointment.
|
|
|
Post by mickeythemaestro on Apr 18, 2024 9:11:03 GMT
I think Schumacher has the potential to be a decent manager but it was a mistake to appoint him in the situation we were in because he hasn't got the experience to deal with it. At Plymouth he inherited a stable club on the up and ran with it - the situation here was the polar opposite. It was always a Mad Nath style wishful thinking appointment and very likely to go wrong. The fact he isn't doing any worse is an achievement and better than what Jones managed. The atmosphere behind the scenes looks to have improved but he really hasn't made much of an impact on the pitch - we are still woefully inconsistent, capable of conceding stupid goals and incapable of creating and taking many scoring chances. The football is a better watch at times but the results haven't improved much. I think it's 50/50 whether we stay up and if we do stay up he deserves a chance next season to show what he can do. If we go down I'm not convinced he's the right man for the job. I don't blame Schumacher for struggling - we were and are in a bad place and most managers would have struggled. I don't get the high handed expectation of some supporters that we were just there to be turned around and he's failed to do something dead easy so therefore he must be crap. He's not crap - the team he inherited just isn't very good and he doesn't have the experience to work out how to get the best from what he's got. Which is what you get if you go for a manager with very little experience and no experience of dealing with a team in a relegation battle. It was a very risky appointment. A very fair post 👍
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Apr 18, 2024 9:19:10 GMT
I think Schumacher has the potential to be a decent manager but it was a mistake to appoint him in the situation we were in because he hasn't got the experience to deal with it. At Plymouth he inherited a stable club on the up and ran with it - the situation here was the polar opposite. It was always a Mad Nath style wishful thinking appointment and very likely to go wrong. The fact he isn't doing any worse is an achievement and better than what Jones managed. The atmosphere behind the scenes looks to have improved but he really hasn't made much of an impact on the pitch - we are still woefully inconsistent, capable of conceding stupid goals and incapable of creating and taking many scoring chances. The football is a better watch at times but the results haven't improved much. I think it's 50/50 whether we stay up and if we do stay up he deserves a chance next season to show what he can do. If we go down I'm not convinced he's the right man for the job. I don't blame Schumacher for struggling - we were and are in a bad place and most managers would have struggled. I don't get the high handed expectation of some supporters that we were just there to be turned around and he's failed to do something dead easy so therefore he must be crap. He's not crap - the team he inherited just isn't very good and he doesn't have the experience to work out how to get the best from what he's got. Which is what you get if you go for a manager with very little experience and no experience of dealing with a team in a relegation battle. It was a very risky appointment. Good post. I'll caveat it by adding that any manager is a risk. We've had wet behind the ears to experienced. All failed/struggled, so suggests it's very hard job for any manager. Who was available at the time to replace the lamentable Alex Neil (who was experienced btw)
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 18, 2024 9:23:06 GMT
What happens at every other club bar Stoke? Managers make an instant change. It doesn’t happen every time but it happens a lot. We’ve tried it how many times now and have the same bollocks excuses. This article gives a pretty balanced view on the matter - socceranalytics.substack.com/p/is-the-new-manager-bounce-reallyBasically the conclusion is it happens sometimes but not alot and if it does it might be because the club sacked the manager at a particularly low point and would have improved anyway. The main conclusion is that any new manager bounce isn't that significant in terms of long term impact and isn't actually that important for medium/long term success.
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 18, 2024 9:48:50 GMT
I think Schumacher has the potential to be a decent manager but it was a mistake to appoint him in the situation we were in because he hasn't got the experience to deal with it. At Plymouth he inherited a stable club on the up and ran with it - the situation here was the polar opposite. It was always a Mad Nath style wishful thinking appointment and very likely to go wrong. The fact he isn't doing any worse is an achievement and better than what Jones managed. The atmosphere behind the scenes looks to have improved but he really hasn't made much of an impact on the pitch - we are still woefully inconsistent, capable of conceding stupid goals and incapable of creating and taking many scoring chances. The football is a better watch at times but the results haven't improved much. I think it's 50/50 whether we stay up and if we do stay up he deserves a chance next season to show what he can do. If we go down I'm not convinced he's the right man for the job. I don't blame Schumacher for struggling - we were and are in a bad place and most managers would have struggled. I don't get the high handed expectation of some supporters that we were just there to be turned around and he's failed to do something dead easy so therefore he must be crap. He's not crap - the team he inherited just isn't very good and he doesn't have the experience to work out how to get the best from what he's got. Which is what you get if you go for a manager with very little experience and no experience of dealing with a team in a relegation battle. It was a very risky appointment. Good post. I'll caveat it by adding that any manager is a risk. We've had wet behind the ears to experienced. All failed/struggled, so suggests it's very hard job for any manager. Who was available at the time to replace the lamentable Alex Neil (who was experienced btw) Yes all new managers are a risk but lack of experience of dealing with a bad situation just makes the appointment even higher risk. Not an exciting appointment but I would have gone for John Eustace - been there done that at Birmingham and was sacked for no good reason when near the top of the league - and look where they are now. Doing a decent job in similar circumstances at Blackburn having taken over later than Schumacher. Eustace started by making Blackburn hard to beat and they are going into the business end of the season in good form while we are treading water with no consistency in terms of starting 11, formation or level of performance. I know who I would prefer in charge at this points of the season when you need to grind out results.
|
|
|
Post by LGH87 on Apr 18, 2024 9:56:21 GMT
Good post. I'll caveat it by adding that any manager is a risk. We've had wet behind the ears to experienced. All failed/struggled, so suggests it's very hard job for any manager. Who was available at the time to replace the lamentable Alex Neil (who was experienced btw) Yes all new managers are a risk but lack of experience of dealing with a bad situation just makes the appointment even higher risk. Not an exciting appointment but I would have gone for John Eustace - been there done that at Birmingham and was sacked for no good reason when near the top of the league - and look where they are now. Doing a decent job in similar circumstances at Blackburn having taken over later than Schumacher. Eustace started by making Blackburn hard to beat and they are going into the business end of the season in good form while we are treading water with no consistency in terms of starting 11, formation or level of performance. I know who I would prefer in charge at this points of the season when you need to grind out results. In the last 10 games Stoke Won 3 Drawn 3 Lost 4 Points 12 Blackburn Won 2 Drawn 5 Lost 3 Points 11 Eustace total blackburn record Played 14 won 2 drawn 8 lost 4 Points 14
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 18, 2024 9:58:26 GMT
That’s just bollocks.
It happens at every other club bar ours. And it does happen at every other club.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 18, 2024 9:58:50 GMT
Managers make an instant change. It doesn’t happen every time but it happens a lot. We’ve tried it how many times now and have the same bollocks excuses. Did Mark Hughes make an instant change? Yes 🤣
|
|
|
Post by dirtygary69 on Apr 18, 2024 10:06:20 GMT
Yes all new managers are a risk but lack of experience of dealing with a bad situation just makes the appointment even higher risk. Not an exciting appointment but I would have gone for John Eustace - been there done that at Birmingham and was sacked for no good reason when near the top of the league - and look where they are now. Doing a decent job in similar circumstances at Blackburn having taken over later than Schumacher. Eustace started by making Blackburn hard to beat and they are going into the business end of the season in good form while we are treading water with no consistency in terms of starting 11, formation or level of performance. I know who I would prefer in charge at this points of the season when you need to grind out results. In the last 10 games Stoke Won 3 Drawn 3 Lost 4 Points 12 Blackburn Won 2 Drawn 5 Lost 3 Points 11 Eustace total blackburn record Played 14 won 2 drawn 8 lost 4 Points 14 Yeah, I was going to come on to make the same point, however, I think his point may be that they steadied the ship with draws and their more recent form is better than ours which is probably right. Definitely much of a muchness though, and Schumacher overall has a better record in terms of points gained. I would suggest our form/performances have probably been more erratic than Blackburn's.
|
|
|
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Apr 18, 2024 10:07:04 GMT
That’s just bollocks.
It happens at every other club bar ours. And it does happen at every other club. It of course doesn't As long as the fans have a good feeling though
|
|
|
Post by LGH87 on Apr 18, 2024 10:19:26 GMT
In the last 10 games Stoke Won 3 Drawn 3 Lost 4 Points 12 Blackburn Won 2 Drawn 5 Lost 3 Points 11 Eustace total blackburn record Played 14 won 2 drawn 8 lost 4 Points 14 Yeah, I was going to come on to make the same point, however, I think his point may be that they steadied the ship with draws and their more recent form is better than ours which is probably right. Definitely much of a muchness though, and Schumacher overall has a better record in terms of points gained. I would suggest our form/performances have probably been more erratic than Blackburn's. Even if you go most recent form, they have 7 points from 5 games, we have 6. There's literally nothing in it.
|
|
|
Post by PotteringThrough on Apr 18, 2024 10:24:45 GMT
Interestingly, 6 teams in the championship have changed their manager twice this season - a double bounce for some of them (or maybe not)…
“Rotherham are the sixth team in the Championship, alongside Huddersfield, Birmingham, Millwall, Plymouth and Sunderland, to have changed managers at least twice this season.”
|
|
ian57
Academy Starlet
Posts: 149
|
Post by ian57 on Apr 18, 2024 10:43:21 GMT
I can vividly remember attending a meet the manager evening back in the 1990’s when Lou was the manager and remember him saying that when a new manager goes into a club it will be take 18 months to 2 years for the manager to stamp his identity on the club.
|
|
|
Post by thornestein on Apr 18, 2024 10:47:50 GMT
I can vividly remember attending a meet the manager evening back in the 1990’s when Lou was the manager and remember him saying that when a new manager goes into a club it will be take 18 months to 2 years for the manager to stamp his identity on the club. funny how it took Steve Cooper just a few weeks at forest 🤷♂️
|
|
|
Post by onionman on Apr 18, 2024 10:54:13 GMT
I can vividly remember attending a meet the manager evening back in the 1990’s when Lou was the manager and remember him saying that when a new manager goes into a club it will be take 18 months to 2 years for the manager to stamp his identity on the club. funny how it took Steve Cooper just a few weeks at forest 🤷♂️ It took Lou himself about a week.
|
|
|
Post by wakefieldstokie on Apr 18, 2024 11:10:15 GMT
The argument isn’t ‘is he a great manager’ clearly he’s not (at this point in his tenure)
Is he a good manager? Maybe
Has he improved us? No
Are we in a relegation fight still? Yes
|
|
|
Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 18, 2024 11:12:55 GMT
In the last 10 games Stoke Won 3 Drawn 3 Lost 4 Points 12 Blackburn Won 2 Drawn 5 Lost 3 Points 11 Eustace total blackburn record Played 14 won 2 drawn 8 lost 4 Points 14 Yeah, I was going to come on to make the same point, however, I think his point may be that they steadied the ship with draws and their more recent form is better than ours which is probably right. Definitely much of a muchness though, and Schumacher overall has a better record in terms of points gained. I would suggest our form/performances have probably been more erratic than Blackburn's. Eustace has had less time than Schumacher to turn things round and yes my point was that he started by making them hard to beat and they are coming into good form at the right time. We are still a bit of a soft touch and our performances are still erratic. If you asked me which manager is better equipped to deal with a relegation battle I'd still say Eustace. The problem is there were people who didn't think we were a relegation threatened team when Schumacher was appointed and it was just a matter of steering them to a top half finish. If that were the case then Schumacher was a decent choice but it wasn't. We were in a relegation battle and we needed a manager with a track record of knowing what to do in a relegation battle. Schumacher is winging it, Eustace knows what he is doing.
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Apr 18, 2024 11:14:22 GMT
Yes all new managers are a risk but lack of experience of dealing with a bad situation just makes the appointment even higher risk. Not an exciting appointment but I would have gone for John Eustace - been there done that at Birmingham and was sacked for no good reason when near the top of the league - and look where they are now. Doing a decent job in similar circumstances at Blackburn having taken over later than Schumacher. Eustace started by making Blackburn hard to beat and they are going into the business end of the season in good form while we are treading water with no consistency in terms of starting 11, formation or level of performance. I know who I would prefer in charge at this points of the season when you need to grind out results. In the last 10 games Stoke Won 3 Drawn 3 Lost 4 Points 12 Blackburn Won 2 Drawn 5 Lost 3 Points 11 Eustace total blackburn record Played 14 won 2 drawn 8 lost 4 Points 14 And that's with Smodjics if we had him would venture we would have lots more points
|
|
|
Post by LGH87 on Apr 18, 2024 11:23:15 GMT
Yeah, I was going to come on to make the same point, however, I think his point may be that they steadied the ship with draws and their more recent form is better than ours which is probably right. Definitely much of a muchness though, and Schumacher overall has a better record in terms of points gained. I would suggest our form/performances have probably been more erratic than Blackburn's. Eustace has had less time than Schumacher to turn things round and yes my point was that he started by making them hard to beat and they are coming into good form at the right time. We are still a bit of a soft touch and our performances are still erratic. If you asked me which manager is better equipped to deal with a relegation battle I'd still say Eustace. The problem is there were people who didn't think we were a relegation threatened team when Schumacher was appointed and it was just a matter of steering them to a top half finish. If that were the case then Schumacher was a decent choice but it wasn't. We were in a relegation battle and we needed a manager with a track record of knowing what to do in a relegation battle. Schumacher is winging it, Eustace knows what he is doing. So by your logic, John Eustace's record of knowing what to do in a relegation battle, was from when he "winged it" last season (when they finished on 53 points, the same as Stoke) because he'd had no experience of one before then, if indeed that even was really a relegation battle?
|
|
|
Post by telfordstokie on Apr 18, 2024 11:23:26 GMT
I want it to work and like him as a character but he’s doing - at best - ok.
Think if you’d have said when he was appointed we’d be going into this Plymouth game not only below them but at serious risk of relegation everyone including Schumacher would have been really disappointed with that.
|
|
|
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Apr 18, 2024 11:31:19 GMT
I want it to work and like him as a character but he’s doing - at best - ok. Think if you’d have said when he was appointed we’d be going into this Plymouth game not only below them but at serious risk of relegation everyone including Schumacher would have been really disappointed with that. Done ok , yep With loans going back and big earners out of contract,we'll really see what he's about August to December next season. Under Neil we were only going one way, SS has been fairly steady if not spectacular but certainly a better team under him than that arse before. Hope it works out. Be interesting to see what he does in the Summer Likeable manager, yep
|
|
|
Post by foxysgloves on Apr 18, 2024 11:41:48 GMT
Did Mark Hughes make an instant change? Yes 🤣 Agreed. Which owners appointed him?
|
|