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Post by Trouserdog on Nov 12, 2023 7:34:11 GMT
So far we've only scored 16 goals in 16 games- and 4 of them were in one game against Rotherham.
We've conceded 18, which is actually the 6th or 7th best in the league.
Thankfully, our defence, after a rather porous start, has tightened up considerably as the players have got used to each other. A big part of that is Stevens coming back and a CB pairing getting a run of games together. I'm still not convinced by Hoever's defending on the right, but considering how toothless our attack looks, picking him is probably the right call on balance.
The worry is the front 4. Vidigal on the left is literally the only goal threat we have. He started the season well, but teams know all about him now- he likes to cut in onto his right and also drifts into the centre to finish off crosses from the right. Opposing teams are all going to be aware of that now. He's not really looked like scoring since he came back from injury.
Leris on the right lacks quality on the ball. He'll run all day and is good in the air, but he's not creative enough. He's a poor man's Jacob Brown, which is not exactly a ringing endorsement.
Johnson is another runner, but isn't going to put a through-ball on a plate for a striker, and doesn't seem to be much of a goal threat himself either.
I've covered the strikers in another thread. I'm not convinced any of them are the answer.
This isn't just a reaction to two 0-0 draws on the bounce, looking at the team as it stands, I don't know where a goal is coming from. It's wonderful that the backline has tightened up, but it's still got mistakes in it. Five games unbeaten is a positive, but I can see plenty of 0-1 defeats on the cards with what we're doing at the moment.
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Post by theonlooker on Nov 12, 2023 7:56:15 GMT
The worry for me is the dugout. I question whether this manager has got the nous to do anything more than he is now.
At Norwich and Sunderland he was excellent with someone else's squad but at Preston his team was stodgy and unspectacular like we are starting to witness now on a regular basis.
I'm taking a keen interest in Millwall now they have appointed a young, progressive coach from the England setup. Easy to say after a 4 goal win away at Sheffield Wednesday, but longer term will be interesting to see how a different coach with different ideas sets up with the same players Rowett struggled to create much with, much like our situation now with Neil.
Weird having this discussion whilst we are in an unbeaten run but think it's right to raise it IMO. 👍
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 12, 2023 8:23:58 GMT
We have exciting attacking players.
We need a manager to get the most out of them.
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Post by chuckrocky on Nov 12, 2023 8:48:37 GMT
We do seem to have lost something in attack with our improved defensive displays. It does seem like the last few games we have set up to be solid and hope one of our forwards will produce a bit of quality.
A fit Campbell and Haksabanovic may have made the difference yesterday but all of our forwards are inconsistent and we can’t just rely on one of them to pull something out of the bag for us every week, we need to get back to creating good chances.
I’d love to see a front three of Vidigal, Mmaee and Haks/Campbell with Bae playing as the advanced midfielder.
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Post by mtrstudent on Nov 12, 2023 8:49:26 GMT
He picked the players you would to press but we barely bothered them as they played out.
Good chance I misread but did it look to anyone else like the midfield had two rigid "modes"? Either Pearson behind double 8s who stuck to their areas, or P-B fixed and J running around. Gayle was stuck up top alone.
They dealt with both modes really easily and only did anything when Pearson managed the occasional smart pass.
I blame the tactics yesterday.
On the plus side we've not conceded much at all.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 12, 2023 8:56:22 GMT
We do seem to have lost something in attack with our improved defensive displays. It does seem like the last few games we have set up to be solid and hope one of our forwards will produce a bit of quality. A fit Campbell and Haksabanovic may have made the difference yesterday but all of our forwards are inconsistent and we can’t just rely on one of them to pull something out of the bag for us every week, we need to get back to creating good chances. I’d love to see a front three of Vidigal, Mmaee and Haks/Campbell with Bae playing as the advanced midfielder. When were we good in attack sorry? |
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Post by wuzza on Nov 12, 2023 9:00:23 GMT
Get a defensive system that works and employ some reasonably competent players who get that their primary task is to stop the opposition scoring and you have the basis of a promotion winning team.
Our attacking options are as good as they have been for a long time but we do lack that Stein / Sheron type player who is going through the golden period of their career and find it easier to score than miss..
All in all I’m more than happy with the way things are shaping if this defensive improvement continues.
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Post by thornestein on Nov 12, 2023 9:12:27 GMT
after Leicester imo hes gone defensive to save his job , 5 unbeaten with 4 clean sheets is very decent , he now as the international break to work on the attacking side of our game
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Post by baconburger on Nov 12, 2023 9:13:42 GMT
So far we've only scored 16 goals in 16 games- and 4 of them were in one game against Rotherham. We've conceded 18, which is actually the 6th or 7th best in the league. Thankfully, our defence, after a rather porous start, has tightened up considerably as the players have got used to each other. A big part of that is Stevens coming back and a CB pairing getting a run of games together. I'm still not convinced by Hoever's defending on the right, but considering how toothless our attack looks, picking him is probably the right call on balance. The worry is the front 4. Vidigal on the left is literally the only goal threat we have. He started the season well, but teams know all about him now- he likes to cut in onto his right and also drifts into the centre to finish off crosses from the right. Opposing teams are all going to be aware of that now. He's not really looked like scoring since he came back from injury. Leris on the right lacks quality on the ball. He'll run all day and is good in the air, but he's not creative enough. He's a poor man's Jacob Brown, which is not exactly a ringing endorsement. Johnson is another runner, but isn't going to put a through-ball on a plate for a striker, and doesn't seem to be much of a goal threat himself either. I've covered the strikers in another thread. I'm not convinced any of them are the answer. This isn't just a reaction to two 0-0 draws on the bounce, looking at the team as it stands, I don't know where a goal is coming from. It's wonderful that the backline has tightened up, but it's still got mistakes in it. Five games unbeaten is a positive, but I can see plenty of 0-1 defeats on the cards with what we're doing at the moment. We don’t score enough goals and haven’t done so for an eon. We fail to score in far too high a proportion of games yet prior to the Cardiff game I heard the manager state he doesn’t worry too much about scoring goals with the array of talent at his disposal. He really couldn’t have though of anything to say that would have pissed me of more if he’d tried. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 12, 2023 9:21:25 GMT
after Leicester imo hes gone defensive to save his job , 5 unbeaten with 4 clean sheets is very decent , he now as the international break to work on the attacking side of our game But we weren’t attacking before? How can he go defensive? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2023 9:22:56 GMT
The manager was fighting for his life two or three weeks ago and I think the back to basics approach has probably saved his job in the short term.
Now with us fairly comfortable in mid table and a winnable run of fixtures coming up he needs to find a way to adjust the balance and get us creating more and better quality chances.
I still think a mobile centre forward with a goal threat is a massive missing piece of the jigsaw. It's obvious he uses Gayle because he's the only one on the books that can do the pressing needed but has no goal threat at all.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Nov 12, 2023 9:33:56 GMT
We haven't improved at all since he's been here. Still a dull, lower half team going nowhere.
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Post by chuckrocky on Nov 12, 2023 9:39:38 GMT
We do seem to have lost something in attack with our improved defensive displays. It does seem like the last few games we have set up to be solid and hope one of our forwards will produce a bit of quality. A fit Campbell and Haksabanovic may have made the difference yesterday but all of our forwards are inconsistent and we can’t just rely on one of them to pull something out of the bag for us every week, we need to get back to creating good chances. I’d love to see a front three of Vidigal, Mmaee and Haks/Campbell with Bae playing as the advanced midfielder. I didn’t say we were good in attack, just that we have lost something. We’ve barely created a chance the last two games. |
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Post by baconburger on Nov 12, 2023 9:42:11 GMT
after Leicester imo hes gone defensive to save his job , 5 unbeaten with 4 clean sheets is very decent , he now as the international break to work on the attacking side of our game But we weren’t attacking before? How can he go defensive? Neither are we not giving away abundant chances, they’re just not going in. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 12, 2023 9:47:30 GMT
But we weren’t attacking before? How can he go defensive? Neither are we not giving away abundant chances, they’re just not going in. I don’t think so no. Cardiff didn’t threaten all game despite Rose giving them the ball. It was like two bald blokes fighting over a comb. |
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 12, 2023 9:56:31 GMT
All of our successful periods have involved us having a decent foundation at the back and then tweaking things to make us progressively more offensive.
The next couple of months will tell us whether the manager can now find a way of getting the right combination so we can win these tight games but I think we'll need to tinker with the forward line in January to do so.
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Post by baconburger on Nov 12, 2023 9:58:14 GMT
Neither are we not giving away abundant chances, they’re just not going in. I don’t think so no. Cardiff didn’t threaten all game despite Rose giving them the ball. It was like two bald blokes fighting over a comb. They’re still making howlers you slate Wilmot for they’re just not going in McNally made one yesterday. Hoever makes one most games where he tries to do too much on the ball in bad areas non of them are shit in fact Hoever is quite possibly the best player technically in the squad. There really aren’t these top notch defenders in the championship that you seem to imagine. Same with forwards you need to create more because they’ll miss more because they aren’t elite players. When you see a player who might be capable of stepping up they stick out like a sore thumb in this league( Jack Clarke). |
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Post by wilcopotter on Nov 12, 2023 9:58:39 GMT
“Binary” season if it means we finish comfortably in the top half to build on for a real promotion push over the next 2 transfer windows will do me. 3 wins and 2 draws, with 3 clean sheets will do me. 11 points from the last 15 is promotion, anyone can moan about this is beyond me.
Oh, and Leicester lost to Middlesbrough and Leeds in their last 2 games, teams we have recently beaten and kept a clean sheet.
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Post by lordb on Nov 12, 2023 10:01:44 GMT
Playing DJ in front of Pearson and Burger has to stop
He's had some busy games, Leeds, Middlesbrough for example but even in those games he offers very little in the last third
If he is to play it a as number 8 not 10
Haksabanovic or Junho, or even Baker have to play there, someone who will link up with the striker and Videgal
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Post by baconburger on Nov 12, 2023 10:10:55 GMT
Playing DJ in front of Pearson and Burger has to stop He's had some busy games, Leeds, Middlesbrough for example but even in those games he offers very little in the last third If he is to play it a as number 8 not 10 Haksabanovic or Junho, or even Baker have to play there, someone who will link up with the striker and Videgal 433 doesn’t deploy a 10 it’s a 2:1 or a 1:2 or a flat 3. So whilst I agree that Bae or Baker would be better options that would still be as an 8 unless AN will change formation. I’d like to see that but he’s shown no inclination to do so either this season or last. I don’t see a problem with Bae’s work rate or robustness so AN is either playing favourites or thinks Bae isn’t quite understanding what he wants from the role. Personally I think what he wants from the role is pretty naff evidenced by Smallbone last season and Johnson this. |
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Post by spoton on Nov 12, 2023 10:45:54 GMT
Interesting question, my opinion the management expected alot more from the large amount of midfield players they have brought in,I think they expected and probably we all thought that BURGER would be the key player scoring around the 10 mark unfortunately another box standard player who can't really make a impact in this league
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 12, 2023 10:50:49 GMT
Interesting question, my opinion the management expected alot more from the large amount of midfield players they have brought in,I think they expected and probably we all thought that BURGER would be the key player scoring around the 10 mark unfortunately another box standard player who can't really make a impact in this league Why would they expect that? He signed as a more defensive midfielder. |
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Nov 12, 2023 10:56:15 GMT
Its hardly a binary season yet. We were leaking goals at the start of the season, and we have sorted that out.
We have enough attacking players to score a few goals, just need to find the right combinations. Dropping Gayle and DJ would be a start. Leris probably playing a bit too much as well.
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Post by nottsover60 on Nov 12, 2023 11:19:31 GMT
Neither are we not giving away abundant chances, they’re just not going in. I don’t think so no. Cardiff didn’t threaten all game despite Rose giving them the ball. It was like two bald blokes fighting over a comb. I think it depends on what you call defensive. I think our defensive record is better not because individual defenders have improved but because as a defensive unit the whole team have improved and so are covering each other's mistakes which means a howler isn't always resulting in a goal. That might be luck but I think it's more to do with players covering and filling space to make life difficult for opposition forwards. As proved by the comical sight v Leeds of Wesley trying to charge back to cover the defence, I think Neil has got the message over that we defend as a team which is good. At the moment it takes something out of the attack which needs to be addressed. If your main target man and only man who can hold up play while others join him has rushed back to defend what do you do? Obviously not pump it long. But a player like Wesley is not going to keep up with a winger running full pelt up the field so what other options are there to relieve the pressure? |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Nov 12, 2023 11:25:56 GMT
Its hardly a binary season yet. We were leaking goals at the start of the season, and we have sorted that out. We have enough attacking players to score a few goals, just need to find the right combinations. Dropping Gayle and DJ would be a start. Leris probably playing a bit too much as well. We create absolutely nothing in some games so the right combination up front is irrelevant. |
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Post by GrahamHyde on Nov 12, 2023 11:32:33 GMT
Also worth noting we have played two of the better defences in the league in Cardiff and Coventry of late.
They both looked pretty solid at the back though I agree we should have done better up top.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Nov 12, 2023 11:34:09 GMT
Yeah I said similar yesterday.
He clearly wanted to shut up shop to save his skin.
I do worry about our ability to score goals though.
Hopefully we see an upturn after the break.
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Post by banksy1art on Nov 12, 2023 11:41:59 GMT
Come off it. This squad is only 3-4 months old, we are only going to get better
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 12, 2023 11:47:45 GMT
Come off it. This squad is only 3-4 months old, we are only going to get better We played well against Leeds but poorly against Cardiff and Sunderland. Boro sounded good and Coventry sounded shit. I think a bit too much is being made of this tbh. However not losing in 5 is excellent. Winning 3 is excellent. But we’ve been here before with Neil and it meant nothing so let’s see if he can actually sustain it. And get us playing better. |
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Post by dirtygary69 on Nov 12, 2023 11:48:45 GMT
Could also put it down to a tough start to the season and injuries for me. Against the lesser sides we have scored enough, but no so much against the better sides generally, however, before the last couple of 0-0 games, we beat Sunderland, Leeds and Boro.
Our recent form is good and goals will hopefully come when injuries finally piss off. Haksabanovic and Campbell to come back to add to Mmaee and then Bae getting more game time.
We’ll have a decent season.
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