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Post by Gods on Nov 12, 2023 20:31:57 GMT
Much better a win and a loss than 2 draws.
With the former you finish the season on 69 points, the latter and its 46 points.
It's the difference between an outside shot at the play-offs and a scrape with relegation.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Nov 12, 2023 20:46:28 GMT
Pts. wins prizes, what do Pts. win?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2023 21:02:54 GMT
Sweden in 1998. AIK Stockholm won the league scoring a frankly pathetic 25 goals in 26 games, 0.96 goals per game. All the 13 other teams in the league scored more, including the two relegated sides. March proved right after all. Goals really are irrelevant ๐๐๐
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Nov 12, 2023 21:11:14 GMT
It's a funny old game. When we were losing games the manager was banging on about performances and how good we were. Over the last five we've picked up points with some pretty poor performances and admittedly some really good! I'm not exactly confident after the last two performances where we didn't look like scoring! With the games coming up against so called lesser teams, they're below us in the main, let's hope we do what we did to Rotherham! In answer to the OP if we'd beat Coventry but lost to Cardiff our fragile home confidence could return. Nah always best to remain unbeaten if only to stop the meltdowns on here!
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 12, 2023 21:13:46 GMT
Much better a win and a loss than 2 draws. With the former you finish the season on 69 points, the latter and its 46 points. It's the difference between an outside shot at the play-offs and a scrape with relegation. We are kindred spirits
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Post by thisisouryear on Nov 12, 2023 21:16:34 GMT
Unbeaten, the longer you go unbeaten the more confident you become and you start smashing everyone and you become feared. Loses show that you have weaknesses which teams can exploit.
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Post by baconburger on Nov 12, 2023 22:14:50 GMT
Iโm not sure how much confidence not scoring breeds tbh. Win next week and score we are well in the mix. Another nil nil and itโs a huge worry isnโt it? It definitely breeds confidence knowing 1 goal is probably going to be enough to win When shipping goals knowing you need 2 goals at least just to get a point is demoralising Statistically 1 goal isnโt probably enough championship games are averaging 2.74 goals per game. I never get why people cling to straws when trying to make a case for defensive football when tables are almost always dominated by high scoring teams. Anomalyโs happen occasionally but surely it better to follow the rule instead of trying to be that once in a generation team that does any good without scoring plenty of goals. Itโs not for me I think itโs brainless.
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Post by jokker on Nov 13, 2023 14:41:27 GMT
we already are - 14th and falling one each game for the last two games Yes but we were 21st so the recent run including g the 0.0 draws had moved us forward not enough as only a few games As I said if we change the goalscoring and keep clean sheets we will move forward more And if we don't we will rattle around again I don't know what you're trying to say but the simple fact is we're 14th in the table, which means we're top of the bottom half.
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Post by sensiblestokie on Nov 13, 2023 14:58:36 GMT
Canโt say that failing to score breeds much confidence in the attacking players who tend to be confidence players more so than defensive types. Indeed, the defence have far more chance of conceding than the forwards do of scoring. Itโs a matter of time We need to score more for sure Iโm sure we will. Although over the last 4 games 2 games scored in and 4 clean sheets suggests weโre more likely to not concede than score.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Nov 13, 2023 14:59:10 GMT
Yes but we were 21st so the recent run including g the 0.0 draws had moved us forward not enough as only a few games As I said if we change the goalscoring and keep clean sheets we will move forward more And if we don't we will rattle around again I don't know what you're trying to say but the simple fact is we're 14th in the table, which means we're top of the bottom half. Bottom half in other words, no different than when he took over
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Nov 13, 2023 15:07:49 GMT
What is more important? Would it have been better to have won one of the last 2 games and lost one meaning we would have had more points Or draw both (as we have) gain less points but maintain an unbeaten run? Let's be honest, the last 2 games have been awful and we could quite easily have lost both but if you can't win a game don't lose it I suppose. The last two games haven't been great, but we could as easily have won as lost, as the two teams we played weren't really any better!!!
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Post by jokker on Nov 15, 2023 10:53:10 GMT
I don't know what you're trying to say but the simple fact is we're 14th in the table, which means we're top of the bottom half. Bottom half in other words, no different than when he took over That's oversimplifying. It would have taken just one more drawn game and you could have said bottom of the top half, in other words we're as good as promoted (and some would say that). While the final table never lies, the 45 tables that go before it frequently do, because the club will have met teams that we weren't expected to win against and it has helped us rise above the sad beginning, but we're still to meet a small bunch of teams that some would take for granted wins, and if we don't, and we frequently do lose or draw to lower teams, then we would, temporarily hopefully, sink. As I've pointed out before, at this stage, one quarter into the season, it's fairly difficult to seperate between currently 6th and 18th, because there's just seven pts between those positions, and you could even say that between 3rd and 21st, a few adverse results for a club and it could find itself a lot lower, and a winning streak could see a club a fair bit higher. Of course there's 18 other clubs also winning now and then, so you can't automatically assume that a five game winning streak would see us in gloryland just yet...
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Post by mattface on Nov 15, 2023 14:18:30 GMT
What is more important? Would it have been better to have won one of the last 2 games and lost one meaning we would have had more points Or draw both (as we have) gain less points but maintain an unbeaten run? Let's be honest, the last 2 games have been awful and we could quite easily have lost both but if you can't win a game don't lose it I suppose. Drawing games we would have lost a month ago is progress. Next step is to start turning some into wins. Short term pain, for long term gain points wise.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Nov 15, 2023 14:48:43 GMT
Bottom half in other words, no different than when he took over That's oversimplifying. It would have taken just one more drawn game and you could have said bottom of the top half, in other words we're as good as promoted (and some would say that). While the final table never lies, the 45 tables that go before it frequently do, because the club will have met teams that we weren't expected to win against and it has helped us rise above the sad beginning, but we're still to meet a small bunch of teams that some would take for granted wins, and if we don't, and we frequently do lose or draw to lower teams, then we would, temporarily hopefully, sink. As I've pointed out before, at this stage, one quarter into the season, it's fairly difficult to seperate between currently 6th and 18th, because there's just seven pts between those positions, and you could even say that between 3rd and 21st, a few adverse results for a club and it could find itself a lot lower, and a winning streak could see a club a fair bit higher. Of course there's 18 other clubs also winning now and then, so you can't automatically assume that a five game winning streak would see us in gloryland just yet... You could say the same over the last several season..one more win etc Bottom line is he's taken us nowhere so far. An unbeaten run of 4 games has possibly saved his job and the last 2 games that were against average teams, we've settled for a point over attempting to win them, self preservation for me. It's easy to differentiate between 6th and 18th. We're closer to 18th and have been since the day he arrived
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Post by J-Roar on Nov 15, 2023 16:22:35 GMT
Full bottle in front of me or full frontal lobotomy?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2023 16:26:01 GMT
Not to have conceded a goal to Leeds, Boro, Cardiff and Coventry is pretty decent. Just need to fix the other end of the pitch, hopefully heโs noticed that Junho and Gooch are the way to go, to make our transitions from back to front quicker.
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Post by ChesterStokie on Nov 15, 2023 16:32:07 GMT
This shouldnโt even be up for debate.
A win and a loss is ALWAYS much better than 2 draws.
We are all clutching at straws going on about this unbeaten run.
The trouble with draws is that when the next defeat comes along as it inevitably does, then DDL stinks the place out. 2 points from 9 is terrible, and any confidence and optimism drains away very quickly.
If you have a run like WLWL youโll be shooting up the table, much better for confidence.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Nov 15, 2023 17:24:57 GMT
Interesting question. Of course more points is preferable in general.
But given our recent history and complete inability to put a long run together, I will say im happy with 5 unbeaten even if the last 2 are draws.
Its been absolute yonks since we have put a sustained run unbeaten so Ill take that for now.
Of course it means nothing in the grand scheme of things and wont lead to promotion. BUT if we end unbeaten in 15 games for instance, then surely we would be up there?? It will become a thing with the team - the confidence of going out and knowing ur not going to lose is massive.
Inconsistency is king in the championship and Stoke are king of inconsistency in general. I wouldnt underestimate the effect of an unbeaten run. In the TP promotion season didnt we go 12 or 13 games unbeaten with a lot of draws included?
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Post by jokker on Nov 15, 2023 19:03:25 GMT
That's oversimplifying. It would have taken just one more drawn game and you could have said bottom of the top half, in other words we're as good as promoted (and some would say that). While the final table never lies, the 45 tables that go before it frequently do, because the club will have met teams that we weren't expected to win against and it has helped us rise above the sad beginning, but we're still to meet a small bunch of teams that some would take for granted wins, and if we don't, and we frequently do lose or draw to lower teams, then we would, temporarily hopefully, sink. As I've pointed out before, at this stage, one quarter into the season, it's fairly difficult to seperate between currently 6th and 18th, because there's just seven pts between those positions, and you could even say that between 3rd and 21st, a few adverse results for a club and it could find itself a lot lower, and a winning streak could see a club a fair bit higher. Of course there's 18 other clubs also winning now and then, so you can't automatically assume that a five game winning streak would see us in gloryland just yet... You could say the same over the last several season..one more win etc Bottom line is he's taken us nowhere so far. An unbeaten run of 4 games has possibly saved his job and the last 2 games that were against average teams, we've settled for a point over attempting to win them, self preservation for me. It's easy to differentiate between 6th and 18th. We're closer to 18th and have been since the day he arrived No the bottom line is you can't adequately judge on where a team is until you've played all 23, once at least. I'm no fan of AN, but his job is not on the line any time soon. We're an average club with below average players, don't expect wonders where there are none.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Nov 15, 2023 19:57:11 GMT
You could say the same over the last several season..one more win etc Bottom line is he's taken us nowhere so far. An unbeaten run of 4 games has possibly saved his job and the last 2 games that were against average teams, we've settled for a point over attempting to win them, self preservation for me. It's easy to differentiate between 6th and 18th. We're closer to 18th and have been since the day he arrived No the bottom line is you can't adequately judge on where a team is until you've played all 23, once at least. I'm no fan of AN, but his job is not on the line any time soon. We're an average club with below average players, don't expect wonders where there are none. Ouch. Is that all stoke city is?
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Nov 15, 2023 20:13:18 GMT
You could say the same over the last several season..one more win etc Bottom line is he's taken us nowhere so far. An unbeaten run of 4 games has possibly saved his job and the last 2 games that were against average teams, we've settled for a point over attempting to win them, self preservation for me. It's easy to differentiate between 6th and 18th. We're closer to 18th and have been since the day he arrived No the bottom line is you can't adequately judge on where a team is until you've played all 23, once at least. I'm no fan of AN, but his job is not on the line any time soon. We're an average club with below average players, don't expect wonders where there are none. I certainly don't expect wonders from Neil but he's been able to build his own squad and taken us absolutely nowhere
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Post by jokker on Nov 16, 2023 22:39:18 GMT
No the bottom line is you can't adequately judge on where a team is until you've played all 23, once at least. I'm no fan of AN, but his job is not on the line any time soon. We're an average club with below average players, don't expect wonders where there are none. Ouch. Is that all stoke city is? In the championship, yes. Those are the facts.
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Post by jokker on Nov 16, 2023 22:43:44 GMT
No the bottom line is you can't adequately judge on where a team is until you've played all 23, once at least. I'm no fan of AN, but his job is not on the line any time soon. We're an average club with below average players, don't expect wonders where there are none. I certainly don't expect wonders from Neil but he's been able to build his own squad and taken us absolutely nowhere We're probably saying the same thing but with a difference! You have to look on this season as the starting point of his project. We're one quarter into the season, which is a complete reset, and it's way too soon to pass any verdict like that. Whereas I make my verdict on scfc after five years in the championship.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Nov 16, 2023 22:54:44 GMT
I certainly don't expect wonders from Neil but he's been able to build his own squad and taken us absolutely nowhere We're probably saying the same thing but with a difference! You have to look on this season as the starting point of his project. We're one quarter into the season, which is a complete reset, and it's way too soon to pass any verdict like that. Whereas I make my verdict on scfc after five years in the championship. Yep see your point I just don't think he's brought anything to the table and this run has papered over so much Hope he gets it right obviously but think he's got that adventurous steak about him and would rather be too safe in games
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Post by Gods on Nov 16, 2023 23:32:18 GMT
I certainly don't expect wonders from Neil but he's been able to build his own squad and taken us absolutely nowhere We're probably saying the same thing but with a difference! You have to look on this season as the starting point of his project. We're one quarter into the season, which is a complete reset, and it's way too soon to pass any verdict like that. Whereas I make my verdict on scfc after five years in the championship. We're past a third of the way through the season.
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Post by idle on Nov 17, 2023 7:47:15 GMT
Wins and goals scored. Canโt be doing with all this jizzing over clean sheets. Our scoring record is pretty horrendous weโve failed to score in 9 out of 19 competitive games this season so far. Has a team ever achieved anything that fails to score in virtually half their games? Very rarely everyone's best mate TP got Gillingham promoted with hardly any goals the current Norwich manager whose name escapes me got Huddersfield promoted with low goals Greece won the Euros without scoring many So, what's the common factor of these teams? They were punching way above their weight. I'd rather play defensive having a chance to win than trying to be peak Barca losing every game. But you need to be good at set pieces to win, which we haven't been for a long long time.
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Post by vidigal7 on Nov 17, 2023 8:06:49 GMT
Unbeaten is a good starting point that can be built upon, losing is not a good starting point
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Nov 17, 2023 9:21:47 GMT
Ouch. Is that all stoke city is? In the championship, yes. Those are the facts. Do you not think it's a bit early to say this, when we have a team that is getting better, is on a five game unbeaten run with 4 clean sheets, has a very good run of fixtures between now and the new year? What's the reason for the pessimism? If this run keeps up look at those crowds get near the 30k mark again.
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Post by milky on Nov 17, 2023 9:35:39 GMT
I really hope there is nothing in this ,it's not a direct quote I heard and it could be a throwaway comment but according to Radio Stoke AN has supposedly said that it will be " nigh on impossible " for him to change the starting 11 for the Blackburn game ( injuries permitting of course )after the last few games.
I hope that isn't implying dour safely first is the way forward and a 0 -0 draw will be some sort of badge of honour.
After all the attacking players that have been brought to the club that will be criminal.
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Post by jokker on Nov 17, 2023 10:08:52 GMT
We're probably saying the same thing but with a difference! You have to look on this season as the starting point of his project. We're one quarter into the season, which is a complete reset, and it's way too soon to pass any verdict like that. Whereas I make my verdict on scfc after five years in the championship. We're past a third of the way through the season. Still too early. When everybody has played everybody, i.e. after 23 games, you have a more fullbodied view of what the league is. At the moment, as I've said, you could be in top third one week, and a couple of games later, you're bottom third. It could actually stay similarly unstable throughout the season, but you have a better picture of which teams you could or must beat in the second half.
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