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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 9, 2023 18:47:36 GMT
I’m same with Adolf Hitler, Robert Mugabe and Jeremy Corbyn Likewise with Graham, Julian and Jimmy Norton, Clary and Sturgeon?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 9, 2023 18:49:41 GMT
Likewise with Graham, Julian and Jimmy Norton, Clary and Sturgeon? Gooch, Cope and Snuka I’d imagine
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Post by mtrstudent on Nov 9, 2023 18:51:29 GMT
People gravitate towards, and have a preference for, people 'most like them'. That works all ways round, and you'll never change it. What's funky is that what you think is "people like you" can change right? Assuming you're white then who do you feel closer to? - a black lad who comes up to you and talks in a stoke accent about how MON's 3-5-2 was shit? - a white orthodox priest from eastern europe comes up to you and starts saying incomprehensible stuff? I totally get your point but I don't think racial stuff has to be a big dividing thing. It's just how it is right now.
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Post by foster on Nov 9, 2023 19:06:55 GMT
Likewise with Graham, Julian and Jimmy Norton, Clary and Sturgeon? 2 out of 3 ain't bad
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 9, 2023 19:08:12 GMT
Norton, Clary and Sturgeon? 2 out of 3 ain't bad It’s like mastermind Norton, Lloyd Webber and Sturgeon?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 9, 2023 19:14:44 GMT
It’s like mastermind Norton, Lloyd Webber and Sturgeon? Has to be Savile👀
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Post by foster on Nov 9, 2023 19:19:46 GMT
It’s like mastermind Norton, Lloyd Webber and Sturgeon? Has to be Savile👀 Great minds n all that.
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Post by svengaliinplatforms on Nov 9, 2023 23:32:48 GMT
People gravitate towards, and have a preference for, people 'most like them'. That works all ways round, and you'll never change it. What's funky is that what you think is "people like you" can change right? Assuming you're white then who do you feel closer to? - a black lad who comes up to you and talks in a stoke accent about how MON's 3-5-2 was shit? - a white orthodox priest from eastern europe comes up to you and starts saying incomprehensible stuff? I totally get your point but I don't think racial stuff has to be a big dividing thing. It's just how it is right now. I've got Burmese, Anglo-Indian, Jamaican and African in my extended family, so it's neither here-nor-there to me. I take people, as I find them. Race has been a dividing factor, throughout the whole of time. As I said before, it works all ways up, and I've seen it first hand, all ways up. I think religion is probably more poisonous and divisive than race.
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Post by mtrstudent on Nov 10, 2023 2:51:42 GMT
What's funky is that what you think is "people like you" can change right? Assuming you're white then who do you feel closer to? - a black lad who comes up to you and talks in a stoke accent about how MON's 3-5-2 was shit? - a white orthodox priest from eastern europe comes up to you and starts saying incomprehensible stuff? I totally get your point but I don't think racial stuff has to be a big dividing thing. It's just how it is right now. I've got Burmese, Anglo-Indian, Jamaican and African in my extended family, so it's neither here-nor-there to me. I take people, as I find them. Race has been a dividing factor, throughout the whole of time. As I said before, it works all ways up, and I've seen it first hand, all ways up. I think religion is probably more poisonous and divisive than race. Wasn't trying to make a point about anything you're like mate, just that I think how people think can change with time. For ages people have used skin colour to decide who's different, but sometimes people pick things like religion or accent. I just think we could see it become less important for people in future and then you'd see fewer issues.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Nov 10, 2023 7:22:01 GMT
I've got Burmese, Anglo-Indian, Jamaican and African in my extended family, so it's neither here-nor-there to me. I take people, as I find them. Race has been a dividing factor, throughout the whole of time. As I said before, it works all ways up, and I've seen it first hand, all ways up. I think religion is probably more poisonous and divisive than race. Wasn't trying to make a point about anything you're like mate, just that I think how people think can change with time. For ages people have used skin colour to decide who's different, but sometimes people pick things like religion or accent. I just think we could see it become less important for people in future and then you'd see fewer issues. That's how it was going until the machine decided we need to keep reminding everyone that all white people are inherently racist and other races can't be racist towards white people. Just more of the keep them fighting and arguing.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 10, 2023 8:36:28 GMT
If someone was moving house and really liked one but it was next to a Travellers' site , with several also Travellers in adjacent houses, to chose not to live there, based upon the proximity of the Travellers, would that be a racist decision?
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Nov 10, 2023 8:49:41 GMT
If someone was moving house and really liked one but it was next to a Travellers' site , with several also Travellers in adjacent houses, to chose not to live there, based upon the proximity of the Travellers, would that be a racist decision? Gypist maybe 👀
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Post by elystokie on Nov 10, 2023 8:58:15 GMT
If someone was moving house and really liked one but it was next to a Travellers' site , with several also Travellers in adjacent houses, to chose not to live there, based upon the proximity of the Travellers, would that be a racist decision? Isn't racism about the harmful things people say and/or do because of someone's skin colour or culture, broadly speaking? I can't see anything harmful there, I doubt the Travellers would give much of a toss either way.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 10, 2023 10:14:01 GMT
If someone was moving house and really liked one but it was next to a Travellers' site , with several also Travellers in adjacent houses, to chose not to live there, based upon the proximity of the Travellers, would that be a racist decision? Isn't racism about the harmful things people say and/or do because of someone's skin colour or culture, broadly speaking? I can't see anything harmful there, I doubt the Travellers would give much of a toss either way. I did consider using the word " discriminatory " ( you have to be careful of your phraseology on here!). I'm not particularly thinking of the issue in a legal sense, it would never get through a court of law....but just wondering if posters thought that the decision was made on predetermined stereotyping, perhaps could therefore be deemed racist or not?
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Post by elystokie on Nov 10, 2023 10:21:53 GMT
Isn't racism about the harmful things people say and/or do because of someone's skin colour or culture, broadly speaking? I can't see anything harmful there, I doubt the Travellers would give much of a toss either way. I did consider using the word " discriminatory " ( you have to be careful of your phraseology on here!). I'm not particularly thinking of the issue in a legal sense, it would never get through a court of law....but just wondering if posters thought that the decision was made on predetermined stereotyping, perhaps could therefore be deemed racist or not? If it's not causing harm or offence how can it be racist? If I see the house of my dreams in one of the gulf states, could afford to buy it due to a recent lottery win but choose not to because I have no wish to spend any more of my life in the area (because I can't stand the place) am I being racist?
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Post by svengaliinplatforms on Nov 10, 2023 10:29:38 GMT
If someone was moving house and really liked one but it was next to a Travellers' site , with several also Travellers in adjacent houses, to chose not to live there, based upon the proximity of the Travellers, would that be a racist decision? I think that's more down to personal preference. Though others will spin it other ways. Gypsy travellers live their lives a certain way, and don't try to hide it. If you don't want that on your doorstep, that's not racism.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 10, 2023 10:30:12 GMT
I did consider using the word " discriminatory " ( you have to be careful of your phraseology on here!). I'm not particularly thinking of the issue in a legal sense, it would never get through a court of law....but just wondering if posters thought that the decision was made on predetermined stereotyping, perhaps could therefore be deemed racist or not? If it's not causing harm or offence how can it be racist? If I see the house of my dreams in one of the gulf states, could afford to buy it due to a recent lottery win but choose not to because I have no wish to spend any more of my life in the area (because I can't stand the place) am I being racist? No idea. I would imagine thst a person could say and fo things thst people may judge as being racist, racially motivated, but don't cause direct , actual harm. I'm not sure your Gulf States comparison is like for like , as you say you can't ' stand the PLACE' O In my scenario ,I'm simply wondering if posters think such a decision has been made on the basis of race or perhaps more accurately unreasonable prejudice?
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Post by elystokie on Nov 10, 2023 11:32:55 GMT
If it's not causing harm or offence how can it be racist? If I see the house of my dreams in one of the gulf states, could afford to buy it due to a recent lottery win but choose not to because I have no wish to spend any more of my life in the area (because I can't stand the place) am I being racist? No idea. I would imagine thst a person could say and fo things thst people may judge as being racist, racially motivated, but don't cause direct , actual harm. I'm not sure your Gulf States comparison is like for like , as you say you can't ' stand the PLACE' O In my scenario ,I'm simply wondering if posters think such a decision has been made on the basis of race or perhaps more accurately unreasonable prejudice? I don't like the place because I don't like the culture, is that racist?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 10, 2023 11:47:09 GMT
No idea. I would imagine thst a person could say and fo things thst people may judge as being racist, racially motivated, but don't cause direct , actual harm. I'm not sure your Gulf States comparison is like for like , as you say you can't ' stand the PLACE' O In my scenario ,I'm simply wondering if posters think such a decision has been made on the basis of race or perhaps more accurately unreasonable prejudice? I don't like the place because I don't like the culture, is that racist? I would not think so,, My scenario was different because the hypothetical decision was made based upon an attitude ( and action in case of discrimination towards a gr people .I think that I read recently that Travellers are the group subject to most racism in the UK , allegedly
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Post by elystokie on Nov 10, 2023 11:52:04 GMT
I don't like the place because I don't like the culture, is that racist? I would not think so,, My scenario was different because the hypothetical decision was made based upon an attitude ( and action in case of discrimination towards a gr people .I think that I read recently that Travellers are the group subject to most racism in the UK , allegedly Is it different tho? My hypothetical decision is also based on attitude. In this scenario I don't see how the level of racism a certain community is subject to is relevant, it's either racism or it's not, it's just a simple case of not liking the culture imo.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 10, 2023 11:55:39 GMT
I don't like the place because I don't like the culture, is that racist? I would not think so,, My scenario was different because the hypothetical decision was made based upon an attitude ( and action in case of discrimination towards a gr people .I think that I read recently that Travellers are the group subject to most racism in the UK , allegedly Yeah they are......
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 10, 2023 11:57:13 GMT
I would not think so,, My scenario was different because the hypothetical decision was made based upon an attitude ( and action in case of discrimination towards a gr people .I think that I read recently that Travellers are the group subject to most racism in the UK , allegedly Is it different tho? My hypothetical decision is also based on attitude. In this scenario I don't see how the level of racism a certain community is subject to is relevant, it's either racism or it's not, it's just a simple case of not liking the culture imo. I'm distinguishing culture ( which involves a host of factors, and against which presumably people cannot be racist) from a specific group of people to whom others can be and are racist. It is a specific question, not to do with culture and one in which Id imagine people do base their decions
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 10, 2023 11:57:52 GMT
I would not think so,, My scenario was different because the hypothetical decision was made based upon an attitude ( and action in case of discrimination towards a gr people .I think that I read recently that Travellers are the group subject to most racism in the UK , allegedly Yeah they are...... Thanks for a clear answer there Prestwich
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Post by elystokie on Nov 10, 2023 12:04:51 GMT
Is it different tho? My hypothetical decision is also based on attitude. In this scenario I don't see how the level of racism a certain community is subject to is relevant, it's either racism or it's not, it's just a simple case of not liking the culture imo. I'm distinguishing culture ( which involves a host of factors, and against which presumably people cannot be racist) from a specific group of people to whom others can be and are racist. It is a specific question, not to do with culture and one in which Id imagine people do base their decions So where's the harm that makes it racism?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 10, 2023 12:17:24 GMT
I'm distinguishing culture ( which involves a host of factors, and against which presumably people cannot be racist) from a specific group of people to whom others can be and are racist. It is a specific question, not to do with culture and one in which Id imagine people do base their decions So where's the harm that makes it racism? I think where we are misunderstanding each other, I don't think a person needs to cause harm to be racist and to hold racist views. I'm not necessarily talking legality. To get a conviction, perhaps there has to be some mental harm, actual discrimination, depending upon which law is involved. I thought it was a simple question.
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Post by elystokie on Nov 10, 2023 12:24:05 GMT
So where's the harm that makes it racism? I think where we are misunderstanding each other, I don't think a person needs to cause harm to be racist and to hold racist views. I'm not necessarily talking legality. To get a conviction, perhaps there has to be some mental harm, actual discrimination, depending upon which law is involved. I thought it was a simple question. I don't think it's necessarily racist in that scenario to not want to live within or alongside a certain culture, which was why I made the Gulf analogy, obviously people's reasons for choosing where to live will always differ.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 10, 2023 12:28:57 GMT
I think where we are misunderstanding each other, I don't think a person needs to cause harm to be racist and to hold racist views. I'm not necessarily talking legality. To get a conviction, perhaps there has to be some mental harm, actual discrimination, depending upon which law is involved. I thought it was a simple question. I don't think it's necessarily racist in that scenario to not want to live within or alongside a certain culture, which was why I made the Gulf analogy, obviously people's reasons for choosing where to live will always differ. Perhaps I get you now, But you are linking the culture to a particular identifiable group. Prestwich's clear answer, a different position from yours, seeems to show how difficult some aspects/ interpretations of racism are
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Post by flea79 on Nov 10, 2023 12:41:18 GMT
Why didn't they use Lizzie as the name for the black candidate also? That would have eliminated a number of other potential biases. As a landlord if I have two candidates and all I have to go on is their name and nothing else, and if its between a typical British name like 'John' or a foreign name like Pedro, Akhmed, Gimli, Legolas or Gandalf, then I'd be inclined to call John back first. That's not being racist, that's taking a punt on the safer sounding option. Someone you'd directly consider as a UK national with lesser risk. However, if I had the opportunity to meet all of them in person and knew that John was a bum, while the others had decent jobs and social standing then I'd clearly rent to one of them. dont rent too Frodo, guaranteed to bring strange callers round late at night, and he will disappear for 13 months and not pay the rent
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Post by cvillestokie on Nov 10, 2023 13:02:04 GMT
Why didn't they use Lizzie as the name for the black candidate also? That would have eliminated a number of other potential biases. As a landlord if I have two candidates and all I have to go on is their name and nothing else, and if its between a typical British name like 'John' or a foreign name like Pedro, Akhmed, Gimli, Legolas or Gandalf, then I'd be inclined to call John back first. That's not being racist, that's taking a punt on the safer sounding option. Someone you'd directly consider as a UK national with lesser risk. However, if I had the opportunity to meet all of them in person and knew that John was a bum, while the others had decent jobs and social standing then I'd clearly rent to one of them. dont rent too Frodo, guaranteed to bring strange callers round late at night, and he will disappear for 13 months and not pay the rent He’s also a genocidal maniac prone to random, violent fits of rage with access to weapons of mass destruction.
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Post by elystokie on Nov 10, 2023 13:19:39 GMT
I don't think it's necessarily racist in that scenario to not want to live within or alongside a certain culture, which was why I made the Gulf analogy, obviously people's reasons for choosing where to live will always differ. Perhaps I get you now, But you are linking the culture to a particular identifiable group. Prestwich's clear answer, a different position from yours, seeems to show how difficult some aspects/ interpretations of racism are I didn't take that from Prestwich's answer, maybe I read it wrong. It's the Arab culture I don't like, how is that different from someone that doesn't like the Traveller culture?
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