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Post by dutchstokie on Jan 31, 2024 21:26:36 GMT
“Michael, Michael…… just tell me about the ladyboys”
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Feb 1, 2024 13:33:56 GMT
If I said the sky is blue, is that a vote winner? I just don’t understand why it’s an issue for anyone not affected by it and why people can’t just be left alone to make their own medical decisions. It affects people when they get dragged into a disciplinary for mis-gendering someone, some feel threatened regarding the toilets/changing room thing, and then there's the sports issues. I get where you're coming from regarding people not being affected by it, but some only need to know someone affected by it to feel affected by it themselves. However, I feel a big contribution to the problems is the media, folk like Piers Morgan, who constantly get to interview folk with the most extreme views on the subject and some viewers believe these people actually represent trans people. I have some, albeit small, experience with trans people. My nephew used to be my niece. He's currently transitioning (low voice, beard, hairy arms, looks like a lad but still a woman in the private areas) but you wouldn't know it, anyone new meeting him wouldn't question his gender. During the early parts of his transition if anyone misgendered him he accepted it as some were used to him being a girl (like me) and others just couldn't quite tell which was fair enough. He's a cracking lad and doesn't make a deal out of it at all. You won't see him waving a multi-coloured flag, or requesting any of that they/them bollocks. He just wants to crack on with life like the rest of us. Which is why the they/them people etc annoy me, and those who just want to identify as something to cause trouble or get a free-ticket in life, they harm other trans folk like my nephew who don't want to affect other people's lives. They have to see the rubbish on tv and on social media and what with obsession with labels in society unfortunately they get chucked in with that lot. Great post and useful for some people to see (and important...shouldn't be as it's bloody obvious to most people but some obviously still need telling) that not all trans people are just fanatical activists with funny coloured hair shouting at everything and trying to sue everyone. Unfortunately though, the headline of "WORLD EXCLUSIVE: 99.9% of trans people are perfectly normal citizens, getting on with their life, not causing anyone any bother and not trying to take people to court over being mis-pronouned" doesn't sell papers or generate comments on Facebook. It really is utterly pathetic just how hard the media actually intentionally work at creating division. What's even more worrying is the amount of people that slag off the media because they know this but then still swallow all the anti-trans stuff as being "representative" of the entire community anyway i.e. criticise MSM unless they actually agree with it. Sad world we live in. |
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Post by cheadlepotter on Feb 1, 2024 14:09:46 GMT
It affects people when they get dragged into a disciplinary for mis-gendering someone, some feel threatened regarding the toilets/changing room thing, and then there's the sports issues. I get where you're coming from regarding people not being affected by it, but some only need to know someone affected by it to feel affected by it themselves. However, I feel a big contribution to the problems is the media, folk like Piers Morgan, who constantly get to interview folk with the most extreme views on the subject and some viewers believe these people actually represent trans people. I have some, albeit small, experience with trans people. My nephew used to be my niece. He's currently transitioning (low voice, beard, hairy arms, looks like a lad but still a woman in the private areas) but you wouldn't know it, anyone new meeting him wouldn't question his gender. During the early parts of his transition if anyone misgendered him he accepted it as some were used to him being a girl (like me) and others just couldn't quite tell which was fair enough. He's a cracking lad and doesn't make a deal out of it at all. You won't see him waving a multi-coloured flag, or requesting any of that they/them bollocks. He just wants to crack on with life like the rest of us. Which is why the they/them people etc annoy me, and those who just want to identify as something to cause trouble or get a free-ticket in life, they harm other trans folk like my nephew who don't want to affect other people's lives. They have to see the rubbish on tv and on social media and what with obsession with labels in society unfortunately they get chucked in with that lot. Great post and useful for some people to see (and important...shouldn't be as it's bloody obvious to most people but some obviously still need telling) that not all trans people are just fanatical activists with funny coloured hair shouting at everything and trying to sue everyone. Unfortunately though, the headline of "WORLD EXCLUSIVE: 99.9% of trans people are perfectly normal citizens, getting on with their life, not causing anyone any bother and not trying to take people to court over being mis-pronouned" doesn't sell papers or generate comments on Facebook. It really is utterly pathetic just how hard the media actually intentionally work at creating division. What's even more worrying is the amount of people that slag off the media because they know this but then still swallow all the anti-trans stuff as being "representative" of the entire community anyway i.e. criticise MSM unless they actually agree with it. Sad world we live in. Thank you. The media are experts at creating division. Not just with trans issues, but race, gender, sexuality, everything they can other than keeping the real divide (rich vs poor) rather quiet as the media is on the rich side and the majority of its readers (mainly the tabloids) are on the poor. |
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Post by musik on Feb 1, 2024 15:37:37 GMT
Conclusion if this is true? It's our own fault if individuals become confused. But then again, if so ... then it's not a biological problem.. and I have that hard to believe. Unless sociological factors affect our bodies. Without getting into the rest of this, sociological factors absolutely affect the biology (and your biology at the time affects how you deal with those social factors). They are not separate. You can learn a lot more about how they interact by looking at monozygotic twin studies. Can I ask my M.D about twin studies and get it explained? It would be very interesting to know what parts of the body that could change due to upbringing and what friends you have et cetera. I just want to know since according to me knowledge is never wrong. I wouldn't be that surprised since many things affect our bodies, what we eat, pollution et cetera. |
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 1, 2024 19:06:06 GMT
Without getting into the rest of this, sociological factors absolutely affect the biology (and your biology at the time affects how you deal with those social factors). They are not separate. You can learn a lot more about how they interact by looking at monozygotic twin studies. Can I ask my M.D about twin studies and get it explained? It would be very interesting to know what parts of the body that could change due to upbringing and what friends you have et cetera. I just want to know since according to me knowledge is never wrong. I wouldn't be that surprised since many things affect our bodies, what we eat, pollution et cetera. If we take a crash course on this, every cell and tissue in your body has the same genetic blueprint: the DNA. However, your heart is not the same as your brain in terms of size, shape and function. Within each person, there are about 20,000 genes that could be expressed. But gene expression requires energy as input. So, some genes are turned on in some cells and off in others (many actually just exist as a gradient of expression). This diminishes energy requirement and stops your brain trying to make an aorta. Now, one of the main processes that decides what gene is turned on/off and why, is epigenetics. DNA methylation is the primary epigenetic mark. Essentially, DNA methylation is the binding of a methyl group onto the 5th carbon atom of a specific DNA base (cytosine). Whether or not a cytosine is methylated has a large effect on gene expression (there’s a lot of chemistry here, eg van der waal reactions, that goes into that). The other primary factor that changes gene expression is the DNA sequence. Now, at an evolutionary perspective, there’s not a tonne of differences across people around the world. However, subtle differences in what base is present where on the DNA strand can alter how the gene is expressed (or even if it can be expressed at all). For simplicity, overall gene expression is mostly affected by your genetic blueprint and whether or not the right cytosine is methylated in that cell, at that time. Why am I telling you this? Well, unlike the DNA sequence, DNA methylation changes as we age (it’s what helps to trigger puberty, for example) but also is susceptible to changes in the environment. So, what you eat, where you live, how you live alters your DNA methylation, which in turn alters gene expression. Changes in gene expression can regulate hormone production that controls how we respond to stress etc. There have been a lot of powerful studies on monozygotic twins that are discordant for different diseases. They show clearly that even in people with the exact same genetic code, changes in their environment can lead to changes in disease risk or behaviour etc. So, society and biology and very much intertwined. Society influences our biology and depending upon our underlying genetic code + our previous experience, we will respond in different ways. That basic principle can be applied here. Some people may be more genetically predisposed to gender dysphoria, then their environment will push their biology one way or another until eventually, the right neurons are activated that triggers an emotional response or decision. In my opinion, the question isn’t if it’s biology or society, it’s what specific genes and societal differences lead to gender dysphoria. |
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Post by musik on Feb 1, 2024 22:51:27 GMT
"Epigenetics is the study of how your behaviours and environment can cause changes that affect the way your genes work."
A person at work talked about this subject before the Holidays.
I will search for a book in Swedish about this next time I'm at the library. Interesting!
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Post by musik on Feb 3, 2024 19:48:59 GMT
I went through the Advanced Search option central library function today and there were no books in Swedish about epigenetics.
So I ordered one from the library in English. I will get it someday this month.
I spoke to a mate who claimed it's a communism idea. I didn't know what to respond. Is it? If so, why?
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Post by musik on Feb 4, 2024 2:23:29 GMT
Has politics anything to do with this at all?
If so, why?
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 4, 2024 2:29:21 GMT
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Post by musik on Feb 4, 2024 2:34:56 GMT
Thanks. So I can explain it's not a pseudo science or hocus pocus then. It's Nessa Carey I ordered from the Library. Funny! "Revolution". |
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Post by musik on Feb 4, 2024 2:43:20 GMT
I will say though that one of the issues with epigenetics is that it was a “sexy science” about 10 years ago with a lot of media attention. As such, lots of random news stories picked it up as a solution to everything. It isn’t, it’s just a biological function that responds to the environment. Seriously, many people I know wouldn't think sociology could affect biology at all. Well in a million years perhaps, but not in a person's lifetime. I find this very interesting! Can't wait to get that book this month! |
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 4, 2024 3:29:01 GMT
I will say though that one of the issues with epigenetics is that it was a “sexy science” about 10 years ago with a lot of media attention. As such, lots of random news stories picked it up as a solution to everything. It isn’t, it’s just a biological function that responds to the environment. Seriously, many people I know wouldn't think sociology could affect biology at all. Well in a million years perhaps, but not in a person's lifetime. I find this very interesting! Can't wait to get that book this month! So, in science the argument for epigenetics is actually the other way around. There is a lot of controversy that epigenetic marks aren’t heritable as the vast majority of DNA methylation is wiped at zygosis. So, the role of DNA methylation in something like evolution is not really something of consensus opinion. There’s no debate about whether the environment influences DNA methylation. There’s no debate about whether epigenetics exists and in fact, epigenetic drugs are used to treat a number of cancers: www.deep-pharma.tech/epigenetic-drugs-q2-2022. The idea though really is that epigenetics isn’t something like, I walked down the street and there was a bit of smoke in the air and so my whole epigenome changed. It’s more to do with either very significant events or persistent exposures to things like poverty, diet, chronic stress etc, lack of exercise, pollution etc etc. |
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Post by flea79 on Feb 4, 2024 3:58:19 GMT
Gender is like the twin towers there used to be two but now it’s a touchy subject
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Post by musik on Feb 7, 2024 14:47:56 GMT
Got the N Carey book about The Epigenetics Revolution from the Library now today. Will try to read it this month.
My expectations before doing so are these:
I will agree on the theory, but disagree when it comes to the conclusions.
Let's see!
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 7, 2024 15:18:15 GMT
Got the N Carey book about The Epigenetics Revolution from the Library now today. Will try to read it this month. My expectations before doing so are these: I will agree on the theory, but disagree when it comes to the conclusions. Let's see! Enjoy. I would like to add that the book is a nice intro to the concepts. The evidence and data within however is old. Because of developments in technology, this book was around just at the beginning of the explosion of epigenetic research. A lot more has been done in the last 13 or so years. |
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Post by musik on Feb 8, 2024 9:32:43 GMT
Got the N Carey book about The Epigenetics Revolution from the Library now today. Will try to read it this month. My expectations before doing so are these: I will agree on the theory, but disagree when it comes to the conclusions. Let's see! Enjoy. I would like to add that the book is a nice, intro to the concepts. The evidence and data within however is old. Because of developments in technology, this book was around just at the beginning of the explosion of epigenetic research. A lot more has been done in the last 13 or so years. I just started to read a little around midnight, the Thanks to part, The Introduction pages and a little more. It was quite astonishing. For example of course malnutrition affects the body ... Haven't they always known that it can affect generations to come? 🤔 The way she sees DNA is a balanced and sensible one, I share it. I'm more interested in if sociology can affect the body. I will explain what I mean further along the way. |
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Feb 8, 2024 14:00:08 GMT
I know. It's almost as if people are encouraged to find a group to get angry about, isn't it! 1930s. "Bloody Jews. It's always them causing problems". "What have they done to you?" "Nothing, but they expect to come here now they're being kicked out of Germany. They'll cause loads of problems here now, it was in the paper". 1940s. "I don't like blacks or Asians". "But what have they done to you personally?" "Well, nothing, but I'm sure I read they cause more trouble, take our jobs, claim more benefits or something". 1980s. "Anyway, I don't like homosexuals, they're disgusting". "But how have they affected you?" "Well, they haven't, but I'm sure I read they're responsible for the decline of moral standards, spreading disease etc". 2010s: "Bloody Eastern Europeans coming here taking jobs and destroying local services". "You do realise they actually make a net contribution". "That may be so but there's too many and it's not right. Farage and his lot have got it right". 2020s. "Anyway, these trans people and all this gender stuff really annoys me". "Why? In what way does it touch your life". "It doesn't. I just hate seeing it on tv or in the paper or on social media. They cause trouble and confuse kids and stuff". You'd think people would cotton on eventually, wouldn't you! Agreed. There always has to be something to get riled up over. Can’t we all just hate Vale and be content that it be enough? That was the 1990's! Problem was it did affect us! 😂😉 |
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Post by musik on Feb 10, 2024 2:58:32 GMT
cortisol
violence
23 pairs
turned on and off
maternal
paternal
All in the mind
Generation X
on page 177, I dunno what happens to her 😳
Interesting book.
I will return here when I've finished it.
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Post by Goonie on Feb 11, 2024 19:39:12 GMT
Very interesting and, as I understand it, transgendered folk are hardwired in their brain to be the way they are.
I'd recommend the rest of the Stanford series Sapolsky has on YouTube if you're interested in evolutionary biology/psychology
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Post by musik on Feb 11, 2024 20:55:36 GMT
Very interesting and, as I understand it, transgendered folk are hardwired in their brain to be the way they are. I'd recommend the rest of the Stanford series Sapolsky has on YouTube if you're interested in evolutionary biology/psychology Thanks Goonie! I always want to know Why. I'm that type of curious guy. The phantom pain part was interesting. He ended by mentioning the environment ... Is there a continuation? I have my own special solution to this field. I will get back to that later. |
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Post by musik on Feb 11, 2024 20:56:50 GMT
You're male or female from birth You can label yourself any old shite but changes nothing Yes, but the interesting question is Why. Why do someone say otherwise? |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Feb 11, 2024 21:00:47 GMT
You're male or female from birth You can label yourself any old shite but changes nothing Yes, but the interesting question is Why. Why do someone say otherwise? Because they have a mental affliction brought on by social media, strange parents, and/or perversion |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Feb 11, 2024 21:01:57 GMT
You're male or female from birth You can label yourself any old shite but changes nothing Yes, but the interesting question is Why. Why do someone say otherwise? Attention, to be different, influenced, confrontation |
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Post by musik on Feb 12, 2024 1:30:54 GMT
Yes, but the interesting question is Why. Why do someone say otherwise? Attention, to be different, influenced, confrontation So you mean they can go so far that they want surgery voluntarily? |
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Post by musik on Feb 12, 2024 1:37:23 GMT
Yes, but the interesting question is Why. Why do someone say otherwise? Because they have a mental affliction brought on by social media, strange parents, and/or perversion You kind of nailed what I want to investigate by learning more. These are sociological factors only: social media, upbringing etc. Namely, some say sociological factors do affect the individual's biology. When reading the book about epigenetics I can agree to what it says, but so far (I haven't read that much of it yet) it only speaks about what I would call biological factors - even though the author seems to think otherwise when mentioning malnutrition. I'm more interested in your examples. In short: can people's words change your body? |
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Post by musik on Feb 12, 2024 1:44:23 GMT
Yes, but the interesting question is Why. Why do someone say otherwise? Because they ... Listen to Sapolsky in that video if you dare. My mate warned me about reading about epigenetics, said it could turn me into one of those communists, that it could destroy me completely. He's afraid he wouldn't recognize me after a while. Going by the look on that fellow in that video he could be right. Interesting part at the end about phantom pain in a penis being cut off. The ones who were not trans persons experienced phantom pain, but not the ones who made a sex change. And if I understand correctly (Engl is not my native language), there is a part of the brain that decides what sex you belong to no matter how you look physically?? |
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Post by Goonie on Feb 12, 2024 9:24:14 GMT
Listen to Sapolsky in that video if you dare. My mate warned me about reading about epigenetics, said it could turn me into one of those communists, that it could destroy me completely. He's afraid he wouldn't recognize me after a while. Going by the look on that fellow in that video he could be right. Interesting part at the end about phantom pain in a penis being cut off. The ones who were not trans persons experienced phantom pain, but not the ones who made a sex change. And if I understand correctly (Engl is not my native language), there is a part of the brain that decides what sex you belong to no matter how you look physically?? That's my interpretation Musik too: transgender people have the corresponding part of the brain that reflects the gender they believe themselves to be. What isn't quite clear to me is why: is it a genetic influence or is there an environmental influence. I am following the Sapolsky lecture series but only on 4 with 12 to go! |
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Post by musik on Feb 12, 2024 13:58:14 GMT
Listen to Sapolsky in that video if you dare. My mate warned me about reading about epigenetics, said it could turn me into one of those communists, that it could destroy me completely. He's afraid he wouldn't recognize me after a while. Going by the look on that fellow in that video he could be right. Interesting part at the end about phantom pain in a penis being cut off. The ones who were not trans persons experienced phantom pain, but not the ones who made a sex change. And if I understand correctly (Engl is not my native language), there is a part of the brain that decides what sex you belong to no matter how you look physically?? That's my interpretation Musik too: transgender people have the corresponding part of the brain that reflects the gender they believe themselves to be. What isn't quite clear to me is why: is it a genetic influence or is there an environmental influence. I am following the Sapolsky lecture series but only on 4 with 12 to go! Question is, how do the scientists know that specific part corresponds to what gender they believe in? Are there parts showing what football club you support as well? |
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Post by Goonie on Feb 12, 2024 16:30:01 GMT
That's my interpretation Musik too: transgender people have the corresponding part of the brain that reflects the gender they believe themselves to be. What isn't quite clear to me is why: is it a genetic influence or is there an environmental influence. I am following the Sapolsky lecture series but only on 4 with 12 to go! Question is, how do the scientists know that specific part corresponds to what gender they believe in? Are there parts showing what football club you support as well? If there is then my DNA has been corrupted to support Stoke despite all the crap on and off the pitch! |
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Post by musik on Feb 15, 2024 3:52:46 GMT
While DNA is the foundation, the base, epigenetics seems to be the fine tuning.
Next chapter in the book by N Carey is "Why aren't identical twins actually not identical?"
Funny question ... if they had been, it would be the same person twice.
👍🤠👍
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