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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 3, 2023 13:49:44 GMT
I know. It's almost as if people are encouraged to find a group to get angry about, isn't it! 1930s. "Bloody Jews. It's always them causing problems". "What have they done to you?" "Nothing, but they expect to come here now they're being kicked out of Germany. They'll cause loads of problems here now, it was in the paper". 1940s. "I don't like blacks or Asians". "But what have they done to you personally?" "Well, nothing, but I'm sure I read they cause more trouble, take our jobs, claim more benefits or something". 1980s. "Anyway, I don't like homosexuals, they're disgusting". "But how have they affected you?" "Well, they haven't, but I'm sure I read they're responsible for the decline of moral standards, spreading disease etc". 2010s: "Bloody Eastern Europeans coming here taking jobs and destroying local services". "You do realise they actually make a net contribution". "That may be so but there's too many and it's not right. Farage and his lot have got it right". 2020s. "Anyway, these trans people and all this gender stuff really annoys me". "Why? In what way does it touch your life". "It doesn't. I just hate seeing it on tv or in the paper or on social media. They cause trouble and confuse kids and stuff". You'd think people would cotton on eventually, wouldn't you! Or… 2020s. "Anyway, these trans people and all this gender stuff really annoys me". "Why? In what way does it touch your life". “Well, my 6-year-old is kind of confused and anxious because he was taught at school that that everybody has a “gender” which can develop and change over time. This has given him the false idea that humans can change sex.” “Well, I’m a young lesbian and the dating apps I use are more and more populated by males who identify as women, leading to some very uncomfortable situations. I've felt pressured to accept males into my dating pool for fear of otherwise being called a bigot, or in the words of a Stonewall director, a “sexual racist”.” “I care about vulnerable women’s safety and right to privacy. I have a relative who was traumatised by rape, but found it very difficult to find women’s-only crisis services. I’m also concerned that male sexual criminals are able to identify as women and find their way into women’s prisons, many doing so *after* having committed sex crimes as a man.” “I’m a female athlete, I’ve spent countless thousands of hours training and making sacrifices to enter the Olympics. I thought I’d made it but a male competitor who was allowed to enter took my place.” “I’m a rugby player, I got knocked unconscious by a man twice my size because he identifies as a woman and was allowed to play on the opposing team” “I’m the father of an ten-year-old girl and I’m now fearful to send her into the women’s changing rooms at the swimming pool because the last time she told me there was a man in there” “I’m the father of a thirteen-year-old boy who I think is probably gay. He’s expressed dysphoria about his gender and is now convinced he is “trans” and wants to make life-changing medication to block his puberty. He has also talked about having surgery which would leave him sterile and unable to achieve orgasm for the rest of his life. I’m not sure he understands the implications of it” “I’m a 26-year-old woman, I was convinced at 18 that I was actually a man. Medical professionals all affirmed my dysphoria and I had my breasts and uterus removed. I now realise I was simply a confused kid. I can never have children or a family. I wish someone had advised me to wait” “I’m a child therapist. We’ve been instructed to adopt an affirmation model of treating children with gender confusion. I think it’s harmful but I’m terrified to say anything because we’re accused of using “conversion therapy”” Etc. You get the idea of one or two ways it might affect someone’s life. All interesting examples. And yet I am yet to meet anyone who has actually experienced any of those examples. My kids aren’t confused in school, the lesbian doesn’t have to date men, the numbers of people changing genders to get into a woman’s prison are minuscule (and that is a very niche concern), the sporting examples are a problem for elite athletes and for everyone else it is a hobby so not such a big deal if they ever do come across it, I haven’t ever actually come across anyone I know who knows a female child who has to change in front of men in her changing rooms, the father of the 13 yr old boy has a real concern that needs professional help - and if we just dismiss the issue as many seem to want to then that doesn’t help that 13 yr old boy at all, the 26 year old is a real potential problem but I imagine those who go through with life changing surgery do so only after years and years of deliberation including very long waiting lists - it isn’t an overnight decision so I doubt many do regret it and if they do, would they ever be happy?, and finally how many child therapists are there? They are well trained experts who probably know a lot more about the subject than most of us and so are better placed to deal with it. Dismissing the issues and just saying men are men and women are women dismisses some of the most significant of the issues faced by the people in your scenarios. Particularly for the 13 yr old boy. The reality is, gender issues do not materially impact many people at all. Most people have no clue or understanding. So why do they get involved?
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 3, 2023 13:54:40 GMT
If I said the sky is blue, is that a vote winner? I just don’t understand why it’s an issue for anyone not affected by it and why people can’t just be left alone to make their own medical decisions. It affects people when they get dragged into a disciplinary for mis-gendering someone, some feel threatened regarding the toilets/changing room thing, and then there's the sports issues. I get where you're coming from regarding people not being affected by it, but some only need to know someone affected by it to feel affected by it themselves. However, I feel a big contribution to the problems is the media, folk like Piers Morgan, who constantly get to interview folk with the most extreme views on the subject and some viewers believe these people actually represent trans people. I have some, albeit small, experience with trans people. My nephew used to be my niece. He's currently transitioning (low voice, beard, hairy arms, looks like a lad but still a woman in the private areas) but you wouldn't know it, anyone new meeting him wouldn't question his gender. During the early parts of his transition if anyone misgendered him he accepted it as some were used to him being a girl (like me) and others just couldn't quite tell which was fair enough. He's a cracking lad and doesn't make a deal out of it at all. You won't see him waving a multi-coloured flag, or requesting any of that they/them bollocks. He just wants to crack on with life like the rest of us. Which is why the they/them people etc annoy me, and those who just want to identify as something to cause trouble or get a free-ticket in life, they harm other trans folk like my nephew who don't want to affect other people's lives. They have to see the rubbish on tv and on social media and what with obsession with labels in society unfortunately they get chucked in with that lot. That’s really interesting, thank you for sharing. If the group on here who just say “a man is a man and a woman is a woman” got their way and all gender issues were just ignored, how would your nephew feel (if you don’t mind me asking about your family life)? He would still be a she in that scenario.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Nov 3, 2023 14:33:33 GMT
It affects people when they get dragged into a disciplinary for mis-gendering someone, some feel threatened regarding the toilets/changing room thing, and then there's the sports issues. I get where you're coming from regarding people not being affected by it, but some only need to know someone affected by it to feel affected by it themselves. However, I feel a big contribution to the problems is the media, folk like Piers Morgan, who constantly get to interview folk with the most extreme views on the subject and some viewers believe these people actually represent trans people. I have some, albeit small, experience with trans people. My nephew used to be my niece. He's currently transitioning (low voice, beard, hairy arms, looks like a lad but still a woman in the private areas) but you wouldn't know it, anyone new meeting him wouldn't question his gender. During the early parts of his transition if anyone misgendered him he accepted it as some were used to him being a girl (like me) and others just couldn't quite tell which was fair enough. He's a cracking lad and doesn't make a deal out of it at all. You won't see him waving a multi-coloured flag, or requesting any of that they/them bollocks. He just wants to crack on with life like the rest of us. Which is why the they/them people etc annoy me, and those who just want to identify as something to cause trouble or get a free-ticket in life, they harm other trans folk like my nephew who don't want to affect other people's lives. They have to see the rubbish on tv and on social media and what with obsession with labels in society unfortunately they get chucked in with that lot. That’s really interesting, thank you for sharing. If the group on here who just say “a man is a man and a woman is a woman” got their way and all gender issues were just ignored, how would your nephew feel (if you don’t mind me asking about your family life)? He would still be a she in that scenario. I know on one occasion, and he didn’t want it to come to that but it went on and on, he had to report a transphobic issue to his manager. He copes with the old traditional views of people quite well to be honest, or at least seems to. Bullying obviously becomes a problem, but then it does it many other walks of lives too. Fortunately other that the idiot at work as far as I’m aware he hasn’t suffered any other verbal abuse. I may be wrong saying this, and somebody might take offence, but I don’t think the women becoming men trans folk suffer any where near as much as the men becoming women. They don’t seem to get the same level of attention in the media either.
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Post by PotterLog on Nov 3, 2023 15:01:25 GMT
Or… 2020s. "Anyway, these trans people and all this gender stuff really annoys me". "Why? In what way does it touch your life". “Well, my 6-year-old is kind of confused and anxious because he was taught at school that that everybody has a “gender” which can develop and change over time. This has given him the false idea that humans can change sex.” “Well, I’m a young lesbian and the dating apps I use are more and more populated by males who identify as women, leading to some very uncomfortable situations. I've felt pressured to accept males into my dating pool for fear of otherwise being called a bigot, or in the words of a Stonewall director, a “sexual racist”.” “I care about vulnerable women’s safety and right to privacy. I have a relative who was traumatised by rape, but found it very difficult to find women’s-only crisis services. I’m also concerned that male sexual criminals are able to identify as women and find their way into women’s prisons, many doing so *after* having committed sex crimes as a man.” “I’m a female athlete, I’ve spent countless thousands of hours training and making sacrifices to enter the Olympics. I thought I’d made it but a male competitor who was allowed to enter took my place.” “I’m a rugby player, I got knocked unconscious by a man twice my size because he identifies as a woman and was allowed to play on the opposing team” Ok so the feminist who lost her job for stating her belief that biological sex is real and that men cannot be women Or the academic demonised and hounded out of her university for similar What about the feminist mother who buys the book of "bedtime stories for rebel girls" for her daughters, only to find that one of the "rebel girls" is in fact a boy, whose inspiring story involves taking his school to court to demand access to the girls' bathrooms. What about the equality campaigner who spent decades fighting against societal expectations of gender normativity, now with their head in their hands at the fact that the clock has gone back decades and we are back to regressive stereotypes about the way girls and boys behave, the colours they like and the feelings they have. The woman repulsed by the mysogyny of a bloke documenting his "transition" and claiming womanhood by making videos about how many times he's cried that day and how much he's spent on credit cards - to then find this person crowned "woman of the year" The womens' rights activists attending peaceful demonstrations to be screamed at, threatened and assaulted by aggressive males in the name of kindness and tolerance The voters concerned about the erasure of woman-specific language in official documentation about menstruation and childbirth, or about the politicians completely flummoxed by simple questions of truth about what a woman is.... The gender clinician somewhat alarmed at the 4000% increase in referrals of young girls and suspecting an element of social contagion, but scared to raise concerns... All these are examples of things that can happen, have happened and will continue to happen. It seems somewhat churlish to just say "why get involved" just because these things haven't particularly touched *your* life. “I’m the father of an ten-year-old girl and I’m now fearful to send her into the women’s changing rooms at the swimming pool because the last time she told me there was a man in there” “I’m the father of a thirteen-year-old boy who I think is probably gay. He’s expressed dysphoria about his gender and is now convinced he is “trans” and wants to make life-changing medication to block his puberty. He has also talked about having surgery which would leave him sterile and unable to achieve orgasm for the rest of his life. I’m not sure he understands the implications of it” “I’m a 26-year-old woman, I was convinced at 18 that I was actually a man. Medical professionals all affirmed my dysphoria and I had my breasts and uterus removed. I now realise I was simply a confused kid. I can never have children or a family. I wish someone had advised me to wait” “I’m a child therapist. We’ve been instructed to adopt an affirmation model of treating children with gender confusion. I think it’s harmful but I’m terrified to say anything because we’re accused of using “conversion therapy”” Etc. You get the idea of one or two ways it might affect someone’s life. All interesting examples. And yet I am yet to meet anyone who has actually experienced any of those examples. My kids aren’t confused in school, the lesbian doesn’t have to date men, the numbers of people changing genders to get into a woman’s prison are minuscule (and that is a very niche concern), the sporting examples are a problem for elite athletes and for everyone else it is a hobby so not such a big deal if they ever do come across it, I haven’t ever actually come across anyone I know who knows a female child who has to change in front of men in her changing rooms, the father of the 13 yr old boy has a real concern that needs professional help - and if we just dismiss the issue as many seem to want to then that doesn’t help that 13 yr old boy at all, the 26 year old is a real potential problem but I imagine those who go through with life changing surgery do so only after years and years of deliberation including very long waiting lists - it isn’t an overnight decision so I doubt many do regret it and if they do, would they ever be happy?, and finally how many child therapists are there? They are well trained experts who probably know a lot more about the subject than most of us and so are better placed to deal with it. Dismissing the issues and just saying men are men and women are women dismisses some of the most significant of the issues faced by the people in your scenarios. Particularly for the 13 yr old boy. The reality is, gender issues do not materially impact many people at all. Most people have no clue or understanding. So why do they get involved? Ok so the feminist who lost her job for stating her belief that biological sex is real and that men cannot be women Or the academic demonised and hounded out of her university for similar What about the feminist mother who buys the book of "bedtime stories for rebel girls" for her daughters, only to find that one of the "rebel girls" is in fact a boy, whose inspiring story involves taking his school to court to demand access to the girls' bathrooms. What about the equality campaigner who spent decades fighting against societal expectations of gender normativity, now with their head in their hands at the fact that the clock has gone back decades and we are back to regressive stereotypes about the way girls and boys behave, the colours they like and the feelings they have. The woman repulsed by the mysogyny of a bloke documenting his "transition" and claiming womanhood by making videos about how many times he's cried that day and how much he's spent on credit cards - to then find this person crowned "woman of the year" The womens' rights activists attending peaceful demonstrations to be screamed at, threatened and assaulted by aggressive males in the name of kindness and tolerance The voters concerned about the erasure of woman-specific language in official documentation about menstruation and childbirth, or about the politicians completely flummoxed by simple questions of truth about what a woman is.... The gender clinician somewhat alarmed at the 4000% increase in referrals of young girls and suspecting an element of social contagion, but scared to raise concerns... All these are examples of things that can happen, have happened and will continue to happen. It seems somewhat churlish to just say "why get involved" just because these things haven't particularly touched *your* life. (none of which, I hope it goes without saying, is to suggest that gender non-conforming young people like cheadle's relative shouldn't be treated with the respect and empathy they deserve. The opposite in fact)
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 3, 2023 15:18:19 GMT
Or… 2020s. "Anyway, these trans people and all this gender stuff really annoys me". "Why? In what way does it touch your life". “Well, my 6-year-old is kind of confused and anxious because he was taught at school that that everybody has a “gender” which can develop and change over time. This has given him the false idea that humans can change sex.” “Well, I’m a young lesbian and the dating apps I use are more and more populated by males who identify as women, leading to some very uncomfortable situations. I've felt pressured to accept males into my dating pool for fear of otherwise being called a bigot, or in the words of a Stonewall director, a “sexual racist”.” “I care about vulnerable women’s safety and right to privacy. I have a relative who was traumatised by rape, but found it very difficult to find women’s-only crisis services. I’m also concerned that male sexual criminals are able to identify as women and find their way into women’s prisons, many doing so *after* having committed sex crimes as a man.” “I’m a female athlete, I’ve spent countless thousands of hours training and making sacrifices to enter the Olympics. I thought I’d made it but a male competitor who was allowed to enter took my place.” “I’m a rugby player, I got knocked unconscious by a man twice my size because he identifies as a woman and was allowed to play on the opposing team” “I’m the father of an ten-year-old girl and I’m now fearful to send her into the women’s changing rooms at the swimming pool because the last time she told me there was a man in there” “I’m the father of a thirteen-year-old boy who I think is probably gay. He’s expressed dysphoria about his gender and is now convinced he is “trans” and wants to make life-changing medication to block his puberty. He has also talked about having surgery which would leave him sterile and unable to achieve orgasm for the rest of his life. I’m not sure he understands the implications of it” “I’m a 26-year-old woman, I was convinced at 18 that I was actually a man. Medical professionals all affirmed my dysphoria and I had my breasts and uterus removed. I now realise I was simply a confused kid. I can never have children or a family. I wish someone had advised me to wait” “I’m a child therapist. We’ve been instructed to adopt an affirmation model of treating children with gender confusion. I think it’s harmful but I’m terrified to say anything because we’re accused of using “conversion therapy”” Etc. You get the idea of one or two ways it might affect someone’s life. All interesting examples. And yet I am yet to meet anyone who has actually experienced any of those examples. My kids aren’t confused in school, the lesbian doesn’t have to date men, the numbers of people changing genders to get into a woman’s prison are minuscule (and that is a very niche concern), the sporting examples are a problem for elite athletes and for everyone else it is a hobby so not such a big deal if they ever do come across it, I haven’t ever actually come across anyone I know who knows a female child who has to change in front of men in her changing rooms, the father of the 13 yr old boy has a real concern that needs professional help - and if we just dismiss the issue as many seem to want to then that doesn’t help that 13 yr old boy at all, the 26 year old is a real potential problem but I imagine those who go through with life changing surgery do so only after years and years of deliberation including very long waiting lists - it isn’t an overnight decision so I doubt many do regret it and if they do, would they ever be happy?, and finally how many child therapists are there? They are well trained experts who probably know a lot more about the subject than most of us and so are better placed to deal with it. Dismissing the issues and just saying men are men and women are women dismisses some of the most significant of the issues faced by the people in your scenarios. Particularly for the 13 yr old boy. The reality is, gender issues do not materially impact many people at all. Most people have no clue or understanding. So why do they get involved? Which is kind of the point really, isn't it. So much hatred and annoyance and division surrounding this latest focus of attention, just like it was with all those examples I gave in previous years, which have all now become embarrassing and tawdry memories of a time we'd all like to think we've moved on from. Plus ça change, plus c'est la mème chose.
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Post by PotterLog on Nov 3, 2023 15:34:12 GMT
All interesting examples. And yet I am yet to meet anyone who has actually experienced any of those examples. My kids aren’t confused in school, the lesbian doesn’t have to date men, the numbers of people changing genders to get into a woman’s prison are minuscule (and that is a very niche concern), the sporting examples are a problem for elite athletes and for everyone else it is a hobby so not such a big deal if they ever do come across it, I haven’t ever actually come across anyone I know who knows a female child who has to change in front of men in her changing rooms, the father of the 13 yr old boy has a real concern that needs professional help - and if we just dismiss the issue as many seem to want to then that doesn’t help that 13 yr old boy at all, the 26 year old is a real potential problem but I imagine those who go through with life changing surgery do so only after years and years of deliberation including very long waiting lists - it isn’t an overnight decision so I doubt many do regret it and if they do, would they ever be happy?, and finally how many child therapists are there? They are well trained experts who probably know a lot more about the subject than most of us and so are better placed to deal with it. Dismissing the issues and just saying men are men and women are women dismisses some of the most significant of the issues faced by the people in your scenarios. Particularly for the 13 yr old boy. The reality is, gender issues do not materially impact many people at all. Most people have no clue or understanding. So why do they get involved? Which is kind of the point really, isn't it. So much hatred and annoyance and division surrounding this latest focus of attention, just like it was with all those examples I gave in previous years, which have all now become embarrassing and tawdry memories of a time we'd all like to think we've moved on from. Plus ça change, plus c'est la mème chose. An apt phrase which rings in the heads of many women and gay people realising that however much one may feel we have overcome misogyny, homophobia and regressive gender stereotypes, they can always come back to rear their ugly heads in one guise or another…
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 3, 2023 17:10:36 GMT
Which is kind of the point really, isn't it. So much hatred and annoyance and division surrounding this latest focus of attention, just like it was with all those examples I gave in previous years, which have all now become embarrassing and tawdry memories of a time we'd all like to think we've moved on from. Plus ça change, plus c'est la mème chose. An apt phrase which rings in the heads of many women and gay people realising that however much one may feel we have overcome misogyny, homophobia and regressive gender stereotypes, they can always come back to rear their ugly heads in one guise or another… Absolutely. I doubt whether many women or gay people, blacks, etc would feel that we have truly 'overcome' misogyny, homophobia and other forms of prejudice and discrimination. I'd comfortably wager that the whole trans thing will go precisely the same way as those previous issues I cited. It's triggering people now in much the same ways, but will normalise, fade and we'll all wonder why it was such a 'thing' in due course. It's a truism that those who fail to learn the lessons of history are condemned to repeat it. In a decade or so there'll be a new target in the crosshairs and those who've not absorbed the history lessons will be on the ethical warpath all over again.
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Post by PotterLog on Nov 3, 2023 17:29:57 GMT
An apt phrase which rings in the heads of many women and gay people realising that however much one may feel we have overcome misogyny, homophobia and regressive gender stereotypes, they can always come back to rear their ugly heads in one guise or another… Absolutely. I doubt whether many women or gay people, blacks, etc would feel that we have truly 'overcome' misogyny, homophobia and other forms of prejudice and discrimination. I'd comfortably wager that the whole trans thing will go precisely the same way as those previous issues I cited. It's triggering people now in much the same ways, but will normalise, fade and we'll all wonder why it was such a 'thing' in due course. It's a truism that those who fail to learn the lessons of history are condemned to repeat it. In a decade or so there'll be a new target in the crosshairs and those who've not absorbed the history lessons will be on the ethical warpath all over again. I agree to an extent.. I think some reason will eventually prevail over the hysteria and people will realise there is nothing remotely incompatible about being accepting of gender non-conforming people while at the same time having robust sex-based safeguards for women and protections in place for vulnerable children. And that there is nothing "transphobic" about having those concerns. Some progressive countries like Sweden and Finland (I think) and also the UK have already started to conduct systematic reviews, investigate gender clinic practices and tighten up on things like prescribing puberty blockers. However I feel what might blow the lid off it could be legal action taken by people who transitioned at a young age under medical professional advice and later regretted it and felt they were badly treated. If something like that does happen there will be an awful lot of people hastily deleting tweets and pretending they never supported an ideology which glamourises and encourages needless and brutal (and very expensive) elective surgery on young people's bodies.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 3, 2023 18:11:06 GMT
All interesting examples. And yet I am yet to meet anyone who has actually experienced any of those examples. My kids aren’t confused in school, the lesbian doesn’t have to date men, the numbers of people changing genders to get into a woman’s prison are minuscule (and that is a very niche concern), the sporting examples are a problem for elite athletes and for everyone else it is a hobby so not such a big deal if they ever do come across it, I haven’t ever actually come across anyone I know who knows a female child who has to change in front of men in her changing rooms, the father of the 13 yr old boy has a real concern that needs professional help - and if we just dismiss the issue as many seem to want to then that doesn’t help that 13 yr old boy at all, the 26 year old is a real potential problem but I imagine those who go through with life changing surgery do so only after years and years of deliberation including very long waiting lists - it isn’t an overnight decision so I doubt many do regret it and if they do, would they ever be happy?, and finally how many child therapists are there? They are well trained experts who probably know a lot more about the subject than most of us and so are better placed to deal with it. Dismissing the issues and just saying men are men and women are women dismisses some of the most significant of the issues faced by the people in your scenarios. Particularly for the 13 yr old boy. The reality is, gender issues do not materially impact many people at all. Most people have no clue or understanding. So why do they get involved? Ok so the feminist who lost her job for stating her belief that biological sex is real and that men cannot be women Or the academic demonised and hounded out of her university for similar What about the feminist mother who buys the book of "bedtime stories for rebel girls" for her daughters, only to find that one of the "rebel girls" is in fact a boy, whose inspiring story involves taking his school to court to demand access to the girls' bathrooms. What about the equality campaigner who spent decades fighting against societal expectations of gender normativity, now with their head in their hands at the fact that the clock has gone back decades and we are back to regressive stereotypes about the way girls and boys behave, the colours they like and the feelings they have. The woman repulsed by the mysogyny of a bloke documenting his "transition" and claiming womanhood by making videos about how many times he's cried that day and how much he's spent on credit cards - to then find this person crowned "woman of the year" The womens' rights activists attending peaceful demonstrations to be screamed at, threatened and assaulted by aggressive males in the name of kindness and tolerance The voters concerned about the erasure of woman-specific language in official documentation about menstruation and childbirth, or about the politicians completely flummoxed by simple questions of truth about what a woman is.... The gender clinician somewhat alarmed at the 4000% increase in referrals of young girls and suspecting an element of social contagion, but scared to raise concerns... All these are examples of things that can happen, have happened and will continue to happen. It seems somewhat churlish to just say "why get involved" just because these things haven't particularly touched *your* life. (none of which, I hope it goes without saying, is to suggest that gender non-conforming young people like cheadle's relative shouldn't be treated with the respect and empathy they deserve. The opposite in fact) Your last paragraph is the important point and the reason why it is important that there is some acceptance, discussion and understanding rather than “a man is a man and a woman is a woman” attitude. That used to be the attitude towards gay people after all.
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Post by musik on Nov 3, 2023 19:07:37 GMT
As I've mentioned before we have the (1) man, (2) woman (3) something else options in the survey to answer from the Hospital they've sent us. Today I found out a person had answered at the question "Nationality"? : Swedish yes and no. Why? "I am Swedish but I don't feel Swedish".
Is this the next step? 🤔 What comes next? A debate what age means?
When were you born? "In 1986, but I feel like I'm one of those 1988ers."
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Post by musik on Nov 3, 2023 19:25:45 GMT
Born with a cock...you are a bloke. Born with a fanny..you are a woman... Next Question Absolutely. Definitely. Yes. What I search for is the scientific explanation why someone feels differently. That's what interests me. It has nothing to do with hate.
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Post by thisisouryear on Nov 3, 2023 19:27:09 GMT
Just read an article by Mats Reimer a Swedish doctor who claims there are only two SEXES (notice the word used here) - and that is seen very controversial these days ... 🤨 Sunak said it he other week. It’s a vote winner for sure and I agree with him Sadly people will vote for crap like this. Rather than voting for things that benefit the next generation they vote for petty crap they're angry about even though they are often angry about stuff that doesn't affect them. Voting for people to earn their benefits is a vote winner, voting for education is a vote winner, voting to improve routes through schools into work is a vote winner. Voting because someone wants to identify as A-Z should never be a vote winner.
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Post by musik on Nov 3, 2023 20:17:28 GMT
Any book recommendations describing scientific evidence?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 3, 2023 20:43:51 GMT
Sunak said it he other week. It’s a vote winner for sure and I agree with him Sadly people will vote for crap like this. Rather than voting for things that benefit the next generation they vote for petty crap they're angry about even though they are often angry about stuff that doesn't affect them. Voting for people to earn their benefits is a vote winner, voting for education is a vote winner, voting to improve routes through schools into work is a vote winner. Voting because someone wants to identify as A-Z should never be a vote winner. I agree but it’s a classic tactic
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Post by musik on Nov 3, 2023 21:26:49 GMT
I simply have to start somewhere to learn more. What do you think of this book by a swedish author? 🤔
"Gender is not connected to what body you have but what gender you feel you belong to." That's what it says on Vårdguiden's website [This is our Swedish Health Care Guideline online]. In the last ten years, something has happened to the definition of gender. Suddenly it is said that sex has nothing to do with the body, but is a feeling. Gender is no longer between the legs, but in the head, and it is important to find out which gender you actually belong to. A child who likes pink dresses? It's definitely a girl. A teenager who hates her breasts? It's definitely a boy.
The new definition of gender has been hailed as progressive. Now everyone can be themselves and live out their inner gender. But is it that progressive? And is it that new? Kajsa Ekis Ekman searches the ideology of gender backwards in history and finds that it is in fact a return to reactionary gender roles, with serious consequences. Women should be passive and vain, men active and aggressive. Those who do not fit in must be corrected by the state, often with infertility as a consequence. Homosexuality again becomes a defect to be corrected, and women lose the right to play sports, meet and speak on their own terms. This ideology is becoming law in large parts of the world. How can something so reactionary masquerade as progressive?
This book looks at a development that has uncanny consequences for women, homosexuals and anyone who violates gender roles. A must-read for anyone who wants to orient themselves in the most infected issue of our time."
Worth reading?
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Post by musik on Nov 3, 2023 21:41:57 GMT
When I read about the book review above something struck me ...
The sex drive in a person, isn't that similar? It doesn't help with castration on a rapist, since the sex drive is in the head?
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Post by cvillestokie on Nov 3, 2023 21:51:17 GMT
I simply have to start somewhere to learn more. What do you think of this book by a swedish author? 🤔 "Gender is not connected to what body you have but what gender you feel you belong to." That's what it says on Vårdguiden's website [This is our Swedish Health Care Guideline online]. In the last ten years, something has happened to the definition of gender. Suddenly it is said that sex has nothing to do with the body, but is a feeling. Gender is no longer between the legs, but in the head, and it is important to find out which gender you actually belong to. A child who likes pink dresses? It's definitely a girl. A teenager who hates her breasts? It's definitely a boy. The new definition of gender has been hailed as progressive. Now everyone can be themselves and live out their inner gender. But is it that progressive? And is it that new? Kajsa Ekis Ekman searches the ideology of gender backwards in history and finds that it is in fact a return to reactionary gender roles, with serious consequences. Women should be passive and vain, men active and aggressive. Those who do not fit in must be corrected by the state, often with infertility as a consequence. Homosexuality again becomes a defect to be corrected, and women lose the right to play sports, meet and speak on their own terms. This ideology is becoming law in large parts of the world. How can something so reactionary masquerade as progressive? This book looks at a development that has uncanny consequences for women, homosexuals and anyone who violates gender roles. A must-read for anyone who wants to orient themselves in the most infected issue of our time." Worth reading? A quick google of this person says that she’s an author who researches capitalism. I don’t think she is going to give you a real answer, if cause is something you are after. There are plenty of people who make these topics their life’s work and write books based on their findings as well as the findings of the leading experts in these fields: www.appi.org/Products/Sexuality/Transgender-Mental-HealthI have a friend at UVA who is one of the only qualified clinicians for gender reaffirming care in the State. I could ask her if she has any general books, perhaps those that she gives to patients/their parents, that may be more of use if this one has too much jargon. Edit: The book that I sent above is particularly for clinicians and continuing medical education. However, MD’s also write books that summarize these fields and are made for non-MD’s.
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Post by PotterLog on Nov 3, 2023 21:56:17 GMT
Sadly people will vote for crap like this. Rather than voting for things that benefit the next generation they vote for petty crap they're angry about even though they are often angry about stuff that doesn't affect them. Voting for people to earn their benefits is a vote winner, voting for education is a vote winner, voting to improve routes through schools into work is a vote winner. Voting because someone wants to identify as A-Z should never be a vote winner. I agree but it’s a classic tactic It’s also a complete open goal, left gaping by the bungling opposition parties. He’d be mad not to tap it in
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Post by musik on Nov 3, 2023 22:27:17 GMT
I simply have to start somewhere to learn more. What do you think of this book by a swedish author? 🤔 "Gender is not connected to what body you have but what gender you feel you belong to." That's what it says on Vårdguiden's website [This is our Swedish Health Care Guideline online]. In the last ten years, something has happened to the definition of gender. Suddenly it is said that sex has nothing to do with the body, but is a feeling. Gender is no longer between the legs, but in the head, and it is important to find out which gender you actually belong to. A child who likes pink dresses? It's definitely a girl. A teenager who hates her breasts? It's definitely a boy. The new definition of gender has been hailed as progressive. Now everyone can be themselves and live out their inner gender. But is it that progressive? And is it that new? Kajsa Ekis Ekman searches the ideology of gender backwards in history and finds that it is in fact a return to reactionary gender roles, with serious consequences. Women should be passive and vain, men active and aggressive. Those who do not fit in must be corrected by the state, often with infertility as a consequence. Homosexuality again becomes a defect to be corrected, and women lose the right to play sports, meet and speak on their own terms. This ideology is becoming law in large parts of the world. How can something so reactionary masquerade as progressive? This book looks at a development that has uncanny consequences for women, homosexuals and anyone who violates gender roles. A must-read for anyone who wants to orient themselves in the most infected issue of our time." Worth reading? A quick google of this person says that she’s an author who researches capitalism. I don’t think she is going to give you a real answer, if cause is something you are after. There are plenty of people who make these topics their life’s work and write books based on their findings as well as the findings of the leading experts in these fields: www.appi.org/Products/Sexuality/Transgender-Mental-HealthI have a friend at UVA who is one of the only qualified clinicians for gender reaffirming care in the State. I could ask her if she has any general books, perhaps those that she gives to patients/their parents, that may be more of use if this one has too much jargon. Edit: The book that I sent above is particularly for clinicians and continuing medical education. However, MD’s also write books that summarize these fields and are made for non-MD’s. Hmm. I simply had to check Kajsa Ekis Ekman out and it seems she is very left wing. She was even asked to be the new leader of the Left Communist Party here but since she wrote the book she wasn't no longer a candidate. She worked then for the ultra left Syndicalists but got fired there as well thanks to this book. She was also fired from Arbetaren (The Worker) as a journalist (as she is) due to the book, but had got some compensation for that. She lost many "friends". So it seems the book wasn't left oriented. I have never seen this medical topic as something political. Why should it be? 🤔 Thanks for the recommendation, "Transgender/ Mental Health" by E Yarbrough. Is transgender and mental health issues closely related?
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Post by thisisouryear on Nov 4, 2023 0:26:48 GMT
Sadly people will vote for crap like this. Rather than voting for things that benefit the next generation they vote for petty crap they're angry about even though they are often angry about stuff that doesn't affect them. Voting for people to earn their benefits is a vote winner, voting for education is a vote winner, voting to improve routes through schools into work is a vote winner. Voting because someone wants to identify as A-Z should never be a vote winner. I agree but it’s a classic tactic It's just stupid to vote for shit like that, it helps no-one other than people who have no interest in helping people. It keeps the gravy train going that's it. Only a fool can't see through it. Policies should win votes not pointless rhetoric.
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Post by thisisouryear on Nov 4, 2023 0:31:51 GMT
I agree but it’s a classic tactic It’s also a complete open goal, left gaping by the bungling opposition parties. He’d be mad not to tap it in Parties that use hate to win votes should never come to power. The way I see it once they have turned you against one thing then they will turn you against something else and then something else. Eventually these parties who go down this route will turn on you once you become powerless to stop them.
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Post by PotterLog on Nov 4, 2023 2:50:00 GMT
It’s also a complete open goal, left gaping by the bungling opposition parties. He’d be mad not to tap it in Parties that use hate to win votes should never come to power. The way I see it once they have turned you against one thing then they will turn you against something else and then something else. Eventually these parties who go down this route will turn on you once you become powerless to stop them. Are we on about the same quote? Is it hateful to say there are two sexes?
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Post by thisisouryear on Nov 4, 2023 8:52:27 GMT
Parties that use hate to win votes should never come to power. The way I see it once they have turned you against one thing then they will turn you against something else and then something else. Eventually these parties who go down this route will turn on you once you become powerless to stop them. Are we on about the same quote? Is it hateful to say there are two sexes? The way politicians would use this to score points then yes. To most people identifying as this that and the other is a load of crap but many of them would also be tolerant enough to say just let them get on with it and just accept people as they are. Others aren't quite so tolerant and get angry about it, they start blaming schools when it's nothing to do with schools and then it becomes a toxic attack on the left and how they are manipulating our kids. Politicians aren't really interested in all that though they are more interested in the laws they can change and remove behind the scenes and people hating the left is an added bonus as it boosts their chances of re-election, some topics are just a convenient way of weakening people's power.
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Post by musik on Nov 5, 2023 8:24:17 GMT
Are you: (1) male (2) female (3) something else
Have you encountered the similar in surveys, questionnaires, opinion polls in England/USA?
Or what are the options usually there?
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Post by musik on Nov 5, 2023 9:45:16 GMT
Another things I wanted to talk about concern language. In Sweden we say han (him), hon (her) and hen (they). I just found out in English it's "they" for the gender neutrals. Am I right? This is REALLY a hot potatoe in Sweden. I think I've never use hen (they), the gender neutral word when writing. It doesn't fit in the way I write. I actually want to know the biological sex in a person. I always find it important. Is it a hot potatoe in England too? The problem with pronouns is the very idea that anyone gets to dictate what words other people use to refer to them. To say “my pronouns are” is a nonsense in itself - you don’t own those pronouns any more than you own the adjectives someone uses to describe you. The only pronouns you can reasonably take ownership of are the ones that come out of your mouth when you’re talking about other people. Of course. You can't dictate what words other people want to use, even though people have required me to use certain words at work recently. You can and should instead decide by yourself what words to use. Gender neutral words often cause confusion. Like when I wanted help at the tv shop. "Ask hen (=a Swedish gender neutral word in singular)!", a person from the staff told me and pointed her finger. Problem is I had no idea if it was a female or male of the bunch of people with visible name labels on their shirt pockets I should ask. It would have been better if the first person just have said the name (which is why we have them), or "the blond guy". It happened to be one of the men of them who was the expert on the brand specific questions I had.
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Post by musik on Nov 5, 2023 18:23:04 GMT
Hopefully I will meet the expert tomorrow to discuss gender identity. My hypothesis is that gender identity has biological reasons.
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Post by musik on Nov 5, 2023 20:39:43 GMT
Upbringing plays a decisive role for gender identity in our kids, according to Wikipedia. If we raise a boy to be a man and a girl to be a woman, they are more likely to develop those gender identities.
Interesting.
"Social factors which may influence gender identity include ideas regarding gender roles conveyed by family, authority figures, mass media, and other influential people in a child's life. When children are raised by individuals who adhere to stringent gender roles, they are more likely to behave in the same way, matching their gender identity with the corresponding stereotypical gender patterns."
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Post by musik on Jan 31, 2024 18:38:32 GMT
Upbringing plays a decisive role for gender identity in our kids, according to Wikipedia. If we raise a boy to be a man and a girl to be a woman, they are more likely to develop those gender identities. Interesting. "Social factors which may influence gender identity include ideas regarding gender roles conveyed by family, authority figures, mass media, and other influential people in a child's life. When children are raised by individuals who adhere to stringent gender roles, they are more likely to behave in the same way, matching their gender identity with the corresponding stereotypical gender patterns." Conclusion if this is true? It's our own fault if individuals become confused. But then again, if so ... then it's not a biological problem.. and I have that hard to believe. Unless sociological factors affect our bodies.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jan 31, 2024 19:18:50 GMT
Upbringing plays a decisive role for gender identity in our kids, according to Wikipedia. If we raise a boy to be a man and a girl to be a woman, they are more likely to develop those gender identities. Interesting. "Social factors which may influence gender identity include ideas regarding gender roles conveyed by family, authority figures, mass media, and other influential people in a child's life. When children are raised by individuals who adhere to stringent gender roles, they are more likely to behave in the same way, matching their gender identity with the corresponding stereotypical gender patterns." Conclusion if this is true? It's our own fault if individuals become confused. But then again, if so ... then it's not a biological problem.. and I have that hard to believe. Unless sociological factors affect our bodies. Without getting into the rest of this, sociological factors absolutely affect the biology (and your biology at the time affects how you deal with those social factors). They are not separate. You can learn a lot more about how they interact by looking at monozygotic twin studies.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Jan 31, 2024 19:53:03 GMT
You're male or female from birth
You can label yourself any old shite but changes nothing
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