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Post by scfcnicholas on Nov 1, 2023 8:48:01 GMT
It’s pretty much why he’s being touted as a good manager on the back of the start of this season, so yeah it is 12 games really. That’s just a scape goat for giving him credit, by the same school of thought Pulis isn’t deserving of much credit for keeping us up on his first ever season. Managers are responsible for results and that’s that, if it would’ve been his fault if he failed miserably then it’s very much to his credit if he almost keeps them up despite all odds. It works both ways. It’s almost certainly the biggest factor his great work there along with his stature in the game as a player. No it isn't, he was already getting plaudits for quietly steadying the ship last season as well. It's nothing like the Pulis situation. It's like other situations where clubs have started with big points deductions and it's galvanised them into performances. Would you say Dennis Wise is a good manager? Same thing happened with him and Leeds. The adversity often fires teams up. Not saying Rooney had nothing to do with it but it can't be dismissed out of hand either. His 'stature in the game' will be a great comfort to Blues fans at the moment I'm sure... Again, his time at DC, which you're conveniently ignoring, was a disaster, that can't be swept under the carpet either. The majority of it is attributed to this season. There’s examples where teams have dropped like stones under points deductions. It’s black and white, the manager’s responsible for the results, criticism if he doesn’t, merit where he does. Dennis wise hasn’t done anything of note in a long time so no and what he did at Leeds with a championship squad in league 1 for a string of games isn’t comparable to the great job Rooney did at Derby. He did a shit job in the MLS but has only ever excelled in management over here. I think he’ll do all right at Birmingham when he gets settled but obviously the proof will be in the pudding.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 1, 2023 8:53:19 GMT
No it isn't, he was already getting plaudits for quietly steadying the ship last season as well. It's nothing like the Pulis situation. It's like other situations where clubs have started with big points deductions and it's galvanised them into performances. Would you say Dennis Wise is a good manager? Same thing happened with him and Leeds. The adversity often fires teams up. Not saying Rooney had nothing to do with it but it can't be dismissed out of hand either. His 'stature in the game' will be a great comfort to Blues fans at the moment I'm sure... Again, his time at DC, which you're conveniently ignoring, was a disaster, that can't be swept under the carpet either. The majority of it is attributed to this season. There’s examples where teams have dropped like stones under points deductions. It’s black and white, the manager’s responsible for the results, criticism if he doesn’t, merit where he does. Dennis wise hasn’t done anything of note in a long time so no and what he did at Leeds with a championship squad in league 1 for a string of games isn’t comparable to the great job Rooney did at Derby. He did a shit job in the MLS but has only ever excelled in management over here. I think he’ll do all right at Birmingham when he gets settled but obviously the proof will be in the pudding. Sorry, it's gross hyperbole to say he's 'excelled' at management here, he got plenty of criticism for the job he did in his first year at Derby and they still ultimately went down the next year. I don't know why the Wise and Rooney situations can't be compared either? Given Rooney has played three, lost three with a decent team that was 6th when he took over, it's not exactly compelling evidence that it was a good move either. He'll be gone long before the end of the season.
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Post by scfcnicholas on Nov 1, 2023 9:02:32 GMT
The majority of it is attributed to this season. There’s examples where teams have dropped like stones under points deductions. It’s black and white, the manager’s responsible for the results, criticism if he doesn’t, merit where he does. Dennis wise hasn’t done anything of note in a long time so no and what he did at Leeds with a championship squad in league 1 for a string of games isn’t comparable to the great job Rooney did at Derby. He did a shit job in the MLS but has only ever excelled in management over here. I think he’ll do all right at Birmingham when he gets settled but obviously the proof will be in the pudding. Sorry, it's gross hyperbole to say he's 'excelled' at management here, he got plenty of criticism for the job he did in his first year at Derby and they still ultimately went down the next year. I don't know why the Wise and Rooney situations can't be compared either? Given Rooney has played three, lost three with a decent team that was 6th when he took over, it's not exactly compelling evidence that it was a good move either. He'll be gone long before the end of the season. They went down with a -21 point deduction, they would have been 18th without that. With a depleted squad and complete lack of money clearly them “ultimately going down” is entirely in-spite of the job he did there. Wise firstly got Leeds relegated under no points deduction and didn’t even last the second season out there so it’s completely incomparable. All he had was a very good start in league 1. Well it’s not wise to draw any sort of conclusions after a mere 3 games obviously.
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Post by scfcnicholas on Nov 1, 2023 9:13:29 GMT
Lampard got Derby to a play of final and blooded youth at Chelsea under a transfer embargo subsequently qualifying for champions league football and kept Everton up on the back end of 21/22 season. He has been pretty dog shit since at both Everton and that interim Chelsea stint wouldn’t say that that’s a complete fail of a managerial career though, could see him getting another crack somewhere in the championship. He achieved par with Derby and Chelsea and was a disaster in subsequent stints elsewhere. He'd done nothing to warrant the opportunities he's been given bar that first crack at the Derby job. Playoff final with Derby and champions league with that young Chelsea squad with a transfer embargo are both a lot better than “par”, keeping Everton up was par, but agree he has been pretty awful ever since.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 1, 2023 9:33:40 GMT
He achieved par with Derby and Chelsea and was a disaster in subsequent stints elsewhere. He'd done nothing to warrant the opportunities he's been given bar that first crack at the Derby job. Playoff final with Derby and champions league with that young Chelsea squad with a transfer embargo are both a lot better than “par”, keeping Everton up was par, but agree he has been pretty awful ever since. Finishing 6th and 4th with teams who'd finished the season prior 6th and 3rd is pretty much the definition of 'par'. Yes he did some good work with the young players at Chelsea when his hand was forced but that's about it.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 1, 2023 9:36:22 GMT
Sorry, it's gross hyperbole to say he's 'excelled' at management here, he got plenty of criticism for the job he did in his first year at Derby and they still ultimately went down the next year. I don't know why the Wise and Rooney situations can't be compared either? Given Rooney has played three, lost three with a decent team that was 6th when he took over, it's not exactly compelling evidence that it was a good move either. He'll be gone long before the end of the season. They went down with a -21 point deduction, they would have been 18th without that. With a depleted squad and complete lack of money clearly them “ultimately going down” is entirely in-spite of the job he did there. Wise firstly got Leeds relegated under no points deduction and didn’t even last the second season out there so it’s completely incomparable. All he had was a very good start in league 1. Well it’s not wise to draw any sort of conclusions after a mere 3 games obviously. Equally, Rooney would've have taken them down the season before were it not for Wednesday's points deduction, so swings and roundabouts? Swingers on the table, how do you see Rooney doing at Birmingham?
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Post by scfcnicholas on Nov 1, 2023 9:42:05 GMT
Playoff final with Derby and champions league with that young Chelsea squad with a transfer embargo are both a lot better than “par”, keeping Everton up was par, but agree he has been pretty awful ever since. Finishing 6th and 4th with teams who'd finished the season prior 6th and 3rd is pretty much the definition of 'par'. Yes he did some good work with the young players at Chelsea when his hand was forced but that's about it. Unless you’ve come straight down from the prem play off final is always above par, previous seasons an irrespective. The restrictions he had in place at Chelsea amongst players leaving also means the previous seasons achievements bear limited relevance.
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Post by scfcnicholas on Nov 1, 2023 9:45:02 GMT
They went down with a -21 point deduction, they would have been 18th without that. With a depleted squad and complete lack of money clearly them “ultimately going down” is entirely in-spite of the job he did there. Wise firstly got Leeds relegated under no points deduction and didn’t even last the second season out there so it’s completely incomparable. All he had was a very good start in league 1. Well it’s not wise to draw any sort of conclusions after a mere 3 games obviously. Equally, Rooney would've have taken them down the season before were it not for Wednesday's points deduction, so swings and roundabouts? Swingers on the table, how do you see Rooney doing at Birmingham? Reckon they may challenge for play offs under him, then again so could literally anyone as it’s such a shit standard and everyone is total dog shit including us seemingly barring the top 2
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 1, 2023 9:45:11 GMT
Finishing 6th and 4th with teams who'd finished the season prior 6th and 3rd is pretty much the definition of 'par'. Yes he did some good work with the young players at Chelsea when his hand was forced but that's about it. Unless you’ve come straight down from the prem play off final is always above par, previous seasons an irrespective. The restrictions he had in place at Chelsea amongst players leaving also means the previous seasons achievements bear limited relevance. I think taking a team who finished 6th, adding Mount, Tomori and Harry Wilson to it and finishing 6th again is very much 'par'.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 1, 2023 9:45:49 GMT
Equally, Rooney would've have taken them down the season before were it not for Wednesday's points deduction, so swings and roundabouts? Swingers on the table, how do you see Rooney doing at Birmingham? Reckon they may challenge for play offs under him, then again so could literally anyone as it’s such a shit standard and everyone is total dog shit including us seemingly barring the top 2[/quotFair play. I think he'll be sacked by Feb.
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