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Post by moon on Aug 28, 2023 10:51:53 GMT
I remain optimistic about AN, my only concern is that we need a few more defenders in before the window closes as we don’t have strength in depth, an injury and a suspension and we’re back to a makeshift defence. I think he is the right man for the job, sort the defence out and I think we’ll finish top 6 this season. If these players gel we will have one hell of a team. His job is to make the team gel. The defence is quite an important part of the team and he's had a year to do that. We have no chance of top 6 as long as he can't even set his team up away from home. Talking about what he's going to do, how unlucky we were, going to the pub to mingle with fans doesn't win games. Funnily enough he could set his team up away from home last season. The defence is massively important, he was dealt a bad hand from MON though - look at the state of the defence in MON's last game: www.bbc.com/sport/football/62529115
5 defenders (Wilmot, Taylor, Jags, Fox, Flint only one of which is at the club today) + Souttar who was still injured
1 LB in the squad in Fox and hardly a competent one at that, Tymon is okay at LWB but not further back (presumably he was injured for this game)
No RB/RWB (I know Fosu played RWB but he was only decent in the final 3rd, awful as a defender). A mediocre CM playing LWB. Mediocre keepers
He added Dujon Sterling that month, and Tuanzebe and Hoever in January.
We're in much better shape this season with the arrival of Travers, Stevens, Rose, and McNally - but we still need a few more in (and yes - I'd have liked to see this before the season started, but it doesn't always work that way).
I trust him to get it right, the kind of overhaul we've experienced is a big gamble and it's not going to gel overnight, but it needed to happen.
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Post by Trouserdog on Aug 28, 2023 10:59:39 GMT
Last season he inherited a poor, unbalanced, unmotivated squad and had very little money to spend on it. I'm not sure what people were expecting him to do, exactly?
His job was to get to the end of the end of the season with no relegation drama and get rid of the massive amount of deadwood we'd accumulated. That's the reason the board kept MON on over that summer despite it being obvious the team was going nowhere under him. They probably expected another season of safe, ho-hum, mid-table football before being able to push the boat out like they have a bit over this summer. However, it soon became apparent that the team was in such a rotten state under MON that rather than being mid-table certainties, instead we absolutely stunk of relegation, hence the decision to sack him so early in the season and bring Neil in.
Last season was still pretty bad, and Neil made some mistakes, but we finished 16th and got rid of a number of players who'd done nothing for us. It was job done, albeit in a rather disappointing fashion.
For me, with the turnover of players we've had, this season is now a fresh start, and if we can make decent progress- a top half or top 10 finish being the expectation- then I'd be pleased.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Aug 28, 2023 11:09:49 GMT
I say sack him. For no other reason than I want to see what combination of nationality and league our new system digs up to replace him. Do you go around pulling the wings off butterflies as a hobby?
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Aug 28, 2023 11:25:07 GMT
Last season he inherited a poor, unbalanced, unmotivated squad and had very little money to spend on it. I'm not sure what people were expecting him to do, exactly? His job was to get to the end of the end of the season with no relegation drama and get rid of the massive amount of deadwood we'd accumulated. That's the reason the board kept MON on over that summer despite it being obvious the team was going nowhere under him. They probably expected another season of safe, ho-hum, mid-table football before being able to push the boat out like they have a bit over this summer. However, it soon became apparent that the team was in such a rotten state under MON that rather than being mid-table certainties, instead we absolutely stunk of relegation, hence the decision to sack him so early in the season and bring Neil in. Last season was still pretty bad, and Neil made some mistakes, but we finished 16th and got rid of a number of players who'd done nothing for us. It was job done, albeit in a rather disappointing fashion. For me, with the turnover of players we've had, this season is now a fresh start, and if we can make decent progress- a top half or top 10 finish being the expectation- then I'd be pleased. He accumulated less points than the previous manager with them somehow even after he added his own. Isn't it his job to balance and motivate them and he knew what he was inheriting when he came here? Other managers in our league took over clubs below us and got results straight away
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Post by pavel on Aug 28, 2023 11:33:53 GMT
Last season he inherited a poor, unbalanced, unmotivated squad and had very little money to spend on it. I'm not sure what people were expecting him to do, exactly? His job was to get to the end of the end of the season with no relegation drama and get rid of the massive amount of deadwood we'd accumulated. That's the reason the board kept MON on over that summer despite it being obvious the team was going nowhere under him. They probably expected another season of safe, ho-hum, mid-table football before being able to push the boat out like they have a bit over this summer. However, it soon became apparent that the team was in such a rotten state under MON that rather than being mid-table certainties, instead we absolutely stunk of relegation, hence the decision to sack him so early in the season and bring Neil in. Last season was still pretty bad, and Neil made some mistakes, but we finished 16th and got rid of a number of players who'd done nothing for us. It was job done, albeit in a rather disappointing fashion. For me, with the turnover of players we've had, this season is now a fresh start, and if we can make decent progress- a top half or top 10 finish being the expectation- then I'd be pleased. Can’t argue with much of that but I was disappointed with him last season mostly due to tactics and formations, par the course since we came down though. Top half finish is a must and a given, top ten decent and hovering around the play offs would be nice, it just depends how the team gels and more importantly that Neil trusts the sum of the parts to go for it and stop fearing the opposition. Curiously optimistic at the moment, madness!
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Post by Trouserdog on Aug 28, 2023 12:18:43 GMT
Last season he inherited a poor, unbalanced, unmotivated squad and had very little money to spend on it. I'm not sure what people were expecting him to do, exactly? His job was to get to the end of the end of the season with no relegation drama and get rid of the massive amount of deadwood we'd accumulated. That's the reason the board kept MON on over that summer despite it being obvious the team was going nowhere under him. They probably expected another season of safe, ho-hum, mid-table football before being able to push the boat out like they have a bit over this summer. However, it soon became apparent that the team was in such a rotten state under MON that rather than being mid-table certainties, instead we absolutely stunk of relegation, hence the decision to sack him so early in the season and bring Neil in. Last season was still pretty bad, and Neil made some mistakes, but we finished 16th and got rid of a number of players who'd done nothing for us. It was job done, albeit in a rather disappointing fashion. For me, with the turnover of players we've had, this season is now a fresh start, and if we can make decent progress- a top half or top 10 finish being the expectation- then I'd be pleased. He accumulated less points than the previous manager with them somehow even after he added his own. Isn't it his job to balance and motivate them and he knew what he was inheriting when he came here? Other managers in our league took over clubs below us and got results straight away I'm not saying he did an amazing job or anything- he did OK. Other managers and other clubs aren't a fair comparison: Corberan shot West Brom up the table for example because they'd got a decent squad that was underperforming. We didn't have that- the squad was wank and was performing as such. No manager can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. His job is to balance his squad, but that takes time. How do you convert a squad that has no wingers or competent full-backs on the books to one that can play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 when you've got no money to spend and you've been appointed three days before the end of the transfer window? He added quality in the January window and it was his signings that gave us that push away from any trouble.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Aug 28, 2023 12:35:17 GMT
He accumulated less points than the previous manager with them somehow even after he added his own. Isn't it his job to balance and motivate them and he knew what he was inheriting when he came here? Other managers in our league took over clubs below us and got results straight away I'm not saying he did an amazing job or anything- he did OK. Other managers and other clubs aren't a fair comparison: Corberan shot West Brom up the table for example because they'd got a decent squad that was underperforming. We didn't have that- the squad was wank and was performing as such. No manager can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. His job is to balance his squad, but that takes time. How do you convert a squad that has no wingers or competent full-backs on the books to one that can play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 when you've got no money to spend and you've been appointed three days before the end of the transfer window? He added quality in the January window and it was his signings that gave us that push away from any trouble. I agree apart from the last bit. He didn't push away from trouble. We actually picked up less points per game but were not in a relegation fight to start with really. We just remained slightly out of it as we were before. The signings didn't improve our overall points tally overall , we had that run of 4 games was it but then was back to normal. I like the squad we have although after all the incomings are still weak in some areas which shouldn't be the case but in no way convinced that Neil is the man to make them into a team pushing for the play offs in any sense. Talks a fantastic game though to be fair
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Post by roylandstoke on Aug 28, 2023 12:45:33 GMT
Piss poor so far.
Had fantastic backing and needs to be top 10 after 12 games or things could get very difficult for him,
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Post by Trouserdog on Aug 28, 2023 13:42:33 GMT
I'm not saying he did an amazing job or anything- he did OK. Other managers and other clubs aren't a fair comparison: Corberan shot West Brom up the table for example because they'd got a decent squad that was underperforming. We didn't have that- the squad was wank and was performing as such. No manager can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. His job is to balance his squad, but that takes time. How do you convert a squad that has no wingers or competent full-backs on the books to one that can play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 when you've got no money to spend and you've been appointed three days before the end of the transfer window? He added quality in the January window and it was his signings that gave us that push away from any trouble. I agree apart from the last bit. He didn't push away from trouble. We actually picked up less points per game but were not in a relegation fight to start with really. We just remained slightly out of it as we were before. The signings didn't improve our overall points tally overall , we had that run of 4 games was it but then was back to normal. I like the squad we have although after all the incomings are still weak in some areas which shouldn't be the case but in no way convinced that Neil is the man to make them into a team pushing for the play offs in any sense. Talks a fantastic game though to be fair Maybe kept us away from trouble then, as without that purple patch in February we'd have been in a real spot of bother. That spell of good form coincided with the arrival of Neil's loan signings but ended when two key members of that lot (Sarkic and Tuanzebe) were injured. If he hadn't made all those loan signings do you think we'd have stayed up? I'm not sure we would have done. We were, for the most part, an absolutely miserable excuse for a football team last season.
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Post by bagnallboothen on Aug 28, 2023 14:04:08 GMT
Poor so far.
Seems to fit the clubs philosophy perfectly and agree the only way of improving things is spending as much as physically possible.
This season will ultimately tell and he deserves the season to show us what he can do.
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Post by baconburger on Aug 28, 2023 14:19:12 GMT
Working backwards 4 vs Rotherham H, 4 vs Coventry A, 5 vs Sunderland A, 4 vs Reading H plus quite a few wins scoring 3. How many in the previous 2 seasons combined? No it's not been a bed of roses but some people have very short memories.
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Post by cousindupree on Aug 28, 2023 14:38:20 GMT
Pretty joyless in my view. Mostly poor football. Often out coached by pretty average coaches.Players he inherited all performed better under the previous manager. Many on here like his talk which to be fair is detailed tactical plays which some poster no doubt love, but players have rarely responded to his tactics. It's a points business and his win ratio is still less than the much derided MON. Last season it 'wasn't his team'. Now it's need time to bed in new players. Lets hope this process doesn't take too long.
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Post by chicagostokie on Aug 28, 2023 15:06:27 GMT
A bit of a mixed bag for me. Some great highs and some woeful lows.
When he arrived it was pretty average at best. Then he used the transfer window to show what was possible and the performances were superb at times. Once we were safe, we picked up a few injuries and performances dropped off to friendly level. Still, technically, job done.
The first 4 games have been above average considering the state of the squad and rebuild. 6 points, top 10, whilst we wait for the players to gel. I have to say, some of the people coming into the building are incredibly exciting on paper, and the second half at Millwall was hopefully a sign of things to come.
So I’d say he did what was required last season (raising concerns along the way), and this season is decent so far. After 10-12 games, if we are top 10, averaging >1.75 points per game, I’ll be excited for the rest of the season.
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Post by wrighter on Aug 28, 2023 15:09:51 GMT
some on here would moan if Pep took over !!
Im happy with what he has done this season with transfers
give the team a time to gel FFS
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Post by baconburger on Aug 28, 2023 15:18:11 GMT
Pretty joyless in my view. Mostly poor football. Often out coached by pretty average coaches.Players he inherited all performed better under the previous manager. Many on here like his talk which to be fair is detailed tactical plays which some poster no doubt love, but players have rarely responded to his tactics. It's a points business and his win ratio is still less than the much derided MON. Last season it 'wasn't his team'. Now it's need time to bed in new players. Lets hope this process doesn't take too long. See above you mustn't like us winning well, that's about 10 years worth under MON.
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Post by coldtuesdaynight on Aug 28, 2023 15:23:20 GMT
I say sack him. For no other reason than I want to see what combination of nationality and league our new system digs up to replace him. Do you go around pulling the wings off butterflies as a hobby? Nope… For what it’s worth I quite like Neil. If he ends up being the one in a ten managers who keeps his job for a more than 2 years and delivers success I’ll be more than happy. I have to admit I am quite interested in how the new system handles managers though. I hope Neill is the last manager we’ll appoint using the sole justification ‘Well, he’s done something reasonable in British football in living memory’. I want a De Zerbi clone to turn up. There, I’ve said it 😂
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Aug 28, 2023 15:28:21 GMT
some on here would moan if Pep took over !! Im happy with what he has done this season with transfers give the team a time to gel FFS I don't think they would and Neil has been here a year and his record on the pitch is relegation form really . He's lost just under half of his games in that year . Other managers would have crucified on here with such an awful record but is excuse central on here and all about what they hope will happen . Seems the gel comment is going to be thrown around a lot
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Post by logdog on Aug 28, 2023 15:47:18 GMT
some on here would moan if Pep took over !! Im happy with what he has done this season with transfers give the team a time to gel FFS I don't think they would and Neil has been here a year and his record on the pitch is relegation form really . He's lost just under half of his games in that year . Other managers would have crucified on here with such an awful record but is excuse central on here and all about what they hope will happen . Seems the gel comment is going to be thrown around a lot Some of the points you make are fair enough mate, but if you’re honest you didn’t like the guy from day one. I wasn’t a big fan myself - he’s a pretty abrasive fella - but I think that’s what the job needed. From the tales I heard some players have been royally taking the piss fur the last few years. Whatever you think of him, he’s nobody’s fool & he won’t stand any nonsense. He needs to start making us consistent & difficult to play against now. The next few months will tell us all we need to know. I’ve got an open mind, try it mate, you know want to… 😃
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Post by foxysgloves on Aug 28, 2023 15:57:07 GMT
We simply have to be patient and hope that all the work being done will come to fruition.
If we sack him in the near future we pretty much guarantee that a new rebuild will be needed before this one is complete.
The nature of the job he’s trying to do is that it will take time to bear fruition.
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 28, 2023 16:01:01 GMT
He will want another 5-10 players in the next window which will buy him time beyond your date. It's lame, but it happens all the time. Then in the next window when half the players have shown themselves to be not good enough, he will want another 8-10 players, and Coates will happily fork out. Now in the next window (which is the one after the next one, which was the next one after the previous one), he will be sacked. Another manager comes in, who will get rid of as many Neil's players as possible, and it starts all over again. Meanwhile Stoke will finish midtable every season, so there's nothing really wrong. What a great attitude to have. The overwhelming odds are that he's right though aren't they. This radical overhaul is all well and good but the proof of it will be in the eating when AN inevitably loses his job, almost certainly in the next 2-3 years. If there is some semblance of continuity then in terms of player recruitment/infrastructure/approach, then I'll believe lessons have been learned, but the chances are that it'll be a new bloke sweeping in with his new broom as usual.
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Post by biglad180 on Aug 28, 2023 16:01:41 GMT
stick with him he is a good manager and he will get it right here,
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Post by baconburger on Aug 28, 2023 16:03:52 GMT
We simply have to be patient and hope that all the work being done will come to fruition. If we sack him in the near future we pretty much guarantee that a new rebuild will be needed before this one is complete.
The nature of the job he’s trying to do is that it will take time to bear fruition. I don't want him sacked but if that is still true it says the structure of the club is still very wrong and it has not got a culture or ethos of it's own beyond that which a new manager brings with them. If so they deserve what they get.
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Post by baconburger on Aug 28, 2023 16:05:17 GMT
What a great attitude to have. The overwhelming odds are that he's right though aren't they. This radical overhaul is all well and good but the proof of it will be in the eating when AN inevitably loses his job, almost certainly in the next 2-3 years. If there is some semblance of continuity then in terms of player recruitment/infrastructure/approach, then I'll believe lessons have been learned, but the chances are that it'll be a new bloke sweeping in with his new broom as usual. Exactly and despite the optimism that is the skeleton lurking in the closet.
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Post by foxysgloves on Aug 28, 2023 16:08:04 GMT
We simply have to be patient and hope that all the work being done will come to fruition. If we sack him in the near future we pretty much guarantee that a new rebuild will be needed before this one is complete.
The nature of the job he’s trying to do is that it will take time to bear fruition. I don't want him sacked but if that is still true it says the structure of the club is still very wrong and it has not got a culture or ethos of it's own beyond that which a new manager brings with them. If so they deserve what they get. When they trusted him enough to employ him and grant him license to reshape the club from ground up you surely have to commit to give him at the minimum a full season. I’d argue that barring a complete disaster this season he has to be given next season also.
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Post by bloodtypered on Aug 28, 2023 16:47:23 GMT
some on here would moan if Pep took over !! Im happy with what he has done this season with transfers give the team a time to gel FFS I don't think they would and Neil has been here a year and his record on the pitch is relegation form really . He's lost just under half of his games in that year . Other managers would have crucified on here with such an awful record but is excuse central on here and all about what they hope will happen . Seems the gel comment is going to be thrown around a lot You cant seriously believe that.....theres more to it than a manager coming and waving a magic wand.....pep would have struggled with the players at stoke last season
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Post by matelot1996 on Aug 28, 2023 17:02:05 GMT
The Jury is on their Lunch break at present. Given the expenditure there will be little tolerance of win one, draw one, then a loss ad infinitum. If that continues he will be toast by January. I am neither optimistic nor pessimistic given our uninspiring start. It’s not necessarily right but I feel the pressure is on the verge of already building.
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 28, 2023 17:03:42 GMT
Why wouldn't the new squad be balanced? It's not like his hands are tied and he can only bring in 3 or 4 players? He's brought in 14 with at least two more to come. It's a brand new squad.
I really don't rate this guy, his record is average. He needs to deliver given the backing he's had. We need to be in the promotion talk this season.
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Post by Roy Cropper on Aug 28, 2023 17:58:36 GMT
I really think he can get us up given patience.
We'll not mention the fact I thought the same for MON and Jones at times. However, and as has been discussed, the squad is clearly in better shape now and squad building has been our biggest issue since relegation.
Rowett, Jones, and MON were all capable of leading the right group of players to top 6 football, but none of them could nail the recruitment. Neil seems really assured in that area and the green shoots are the biggest we've seen since we came down.
We'll finish top half this year I've no doubt, but can we do one better?
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Post by hoppo96 on Aug 28, 2023 18:29:52 GMT
Mostly awful on the pitch but partially saved by him seeing what was wrong at the club, rather than saying everything was fine and the staff are all competent and great.
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Post by gawa on Aug 28, 2023 19:27:38 GMT
Shit last season.
Backed heavily this window with the highest net spend in the division.
Decent start but needs to deliver now and be challenging for playoffs.
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