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Post by Pugsley on Aug 14, 2023 18:12:25 GMT
Where did I say they don't count? The conclusion from the league games surely is Rotherham are a poor team. Ipswich are currently better than us (AN said so). Consequently, if we have a (sizable) kitty we need to strengthen rather than add more of the same. Hopefully JD and co will succeed where the pervious 'throw the cheque book at the manager' model failed. imo as I said before we've got all the flair we need, we now need to add the steel. Could the conclusion not be that Rotherham aren’t brilliant but we’re actually quite good, though a work in progress? I’m not saying we don’t need to strengthen, I’m just not having that if we win the opposition must be shit but if we lose then we must be shit. Rotherham were shit though. It was more the manner of defeat on Saturday. Non existent midfield, defensive errors, players not taking instruction, players making poor decision, oppo looking fitter (although I doubt they are) Wake up call for the manager - he looked and sounded shocked.
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Post by roylandstoke on Aug 14, 2023 19:26:47 GMT
It was a very poor performance and I agree there is work to do on improving the squad but I think it needs to noted that Ipswich looked much better than us because their players looked like they knew what their jobs were. It's time the coaching team started earning their money. They should be improving players and giving them structured roles in the team. I see very little evidence of coaching in our performances. We only win when our individual players are clearly superior to their opposite numbers. Decent coaches find ways of getting their teams to exceed the sum of their individual parts; at the moment we are doing the opposite. Do you think this might be something of a knee-jerk reaction after three games, two of which we’ve won? Based as much on last season’s shit show as the last 4 games.
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Post by stokeyank on Aug 14, 2023 19:48:20 GMT
We have seen what a true midfield player does for a team. We don't have one. Laurent is hit and miss, Pearson puts himself about usually, but neither are midfield generals. If we spend any money it should be on that one player who can truly fill that role. I would transform our entire team. Yes we probably need a left back and another central defender but I would put a good central midfielder ahead of both. We've not had a decent one since Whealan and Zonz.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 14, 2023 19:52:03 GMT
Could the conclusion not be that Rotherham aren’t brilliant but we’re actually quite good, though a work in progress? I wouldn't argue against that. Do you think our quite good is top 6 quite good? Who knows? We’ve played three games?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 14, 2023 19:54:51 GMT
Do you think this might be something of a knee-jerk reaction after three games, two of which we’ve won? Based as much on last season’s shit show as the last 4 games. How many of those players are in this team?
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Post by onepara on Aug 14, 2023 19:55:59 GMT
The midfield used to be called, the engine room, of a team. We didn't have one on Saturday.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 14, 2023 19:56:57 GMT
Could the conclusion not be that Rotherham aren’t brilliant but we’re actually quite good, though a work in progress? I’m not saying we don’t need to strengthen, I’m just not having that if we win the opposition must be shit but if we lose then we must be shit. Rotherham were shit though. It was more the manner of defeat on Saturday. Non existent midfield, defensive errors, players not taking instruction, players making poor decision, oppo looking fitter (although I doubt they are) Wake up call for the manager - he looked and sounded shocked. They’re the kind of shit team we’d have lost to at home last season.
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Post by Pugsley on Aug 14, 2023 19:58:26 GMT
Rotherham were shit though. It was more the manner of defeat on Saturday. Non existent midfield, defensive errors, players not taking instruction, players making poor decision, oppo looking fitter (although I doubt they are) Wake up call for the manager - he looked and sounded shocked. They’re the kind of shit team we’d have lost to at home last season. Yep, that's true enough.
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Post by ballboytoday on Aug 14, 2023 20:16:03 GMT
Same as last 2 seasons, inconsistent!
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Post by gingerninja on Aug 14, 2023 20:24:29 GMT
Was anybody really expecting us to click and be fluent on a consistent basis given all the upheaval in the playing staff?. If people were they must live in cloud cuckoo land.
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Post by insideright on Aug 14, 2023 20:35:04 GMT
Was anyone expecting us to have two fullbacks and a centre half get rinsed by a league one side, an overrun midfield and a forward line that needs changing after half an hour? Just asking!
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Post by Gods on Aug 14, 2023 20:51:44 GMT
Was anyone expecting us to have two fullbacks and a centre half get rinsed by a league one side, an overrun midfield and a forward line that needs changing after half an hour? Just asking! Well, when you put it like that! I must admit, it was a deeply troubling afternoon in every respect.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 14, 2023 21:02:34 GMT
Was anyone expecting us to have two fullbacks and a centre half get rinsed by a league one side, an overrun midfield and a forward line that needs changing after half an hour? Just asking! A League One side that numerous pundits have down as promotion contenders this season and who won away at the team who finished 6th last season? I wasn’t necessarily us to be so bad but it’s disingenuous to suggest it wasn’t a tough game.
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Post by roylandstoke on Aug 14, 2023 21:04:13 GMT
Based as much on last season’s shit show as the last 4 games. How many of those players are in this team? I understand these are new players. The manager chose to start again. These are all his players. Last season he had from 40 odd games with someone else’s players. None of them improved. The team’s results did not improve. No excuses this season. I’d give him 12 games (middle of October) to show significant improvement. He talks a bloody good game. It’s time for his team to match that.
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Post by theonlooker on Aug 14, 2023 21:09:16 GMT
Was anybody really expecting us to click and be fluent on a consistent basis given all the upheaval in the playing staff?. If people were they must live in cloud cuckoo land. Many people were really worried about our late business leaving it so close to the season, in fear of that type of performance whilst we bed players in. Already people are leathering into Ryan Mmaee for example. The bloke has been in the country for less than 3 weeks. It's nothing short of what I expected and the Rotherham result/performance was a pleasant surprise to me, albeit against a garbage side. This is why I think we need to be very careful but really cute towards the back end of the window with who we bring in. The club have made their point re. Foreign players and people can see there is a genuine step change, and a welcome one at that, in our recruitment policy. However, I think we need to be very specific now and limit the number of players with no Championship experience, in favour of younger players with experience of this league. I fear more games like Saturday and I'm not sure how tolerant people will be after last season and what went previously. I sincerely hope they are or that we pick up some more results over the next few weeks.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 14, 2023 21:10:14 GMT
How many of those players are in this team? I understand these are new players. The manager chose to start again. These are all his players. Last season he had from 40 odd games with someone else’s players. None of them improved. The team’s results did not improve. No excuses this season. I’d give him 12 games (middle of October) to show significant improvement. He talks a bloody good game. It’s time for his team to match that. I mean we had to start again didn’t we? What was the alternative? I agree there’s no excuses this season, I just think one defeat out of three in a new season with a new team might be a weensy bit early to shit the bed.
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Post by roylandstoke on Aug 14, 2023 21:36:32 GMT
I understand these are new players. The manager chose to start again. These are all his players. Last season he had from 40 odd games with someone else’s players. None of them improved. The team’s results did not improve. No excuses this season. I’d give him 12 games (middle of October) to show significant improvement. He talks a bloody good game. It’s time for his team to match that. I mean we had to start again didn’t we? What was the alternative? I agree there’s no excuses this season, I just think one defeat out of three in a new season with a new team might be a weensy bit early to shit the bed. I don’t think suggesting its time for the coaches to start working to improve the performance of the players could be called shitting the bed.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 14, 2023 21:42:28 GMT
I mean we had to start again didn’t we? What was the alternative? I agree there’s no excuses this season, I just think one defeat out of three in a new season with a new team might be a weensy bit early to shit the bed. I don’t think suggesting its time for the coaches to start working to improve the performance of the players could be called shitting the bed. I think suggesting they haven’t been working on that based on one bad performance is.
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Post by Sfance on Aug 14, 2023 21:44:41 GMT
Saturday's game will be very telling. I never thought the argument last season that "they're not his players" made any sense. But now they are his players so we'll see . . . but if we lose the next couple of games, the new arguments "these players only just got here . . . . " "they're not used to the Championship", etc., etc. are not going to wash for very long.
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Post by Davef on Aug 14, 2023 21:46:47 GMT
Was anyone expecting us to have two fullbacks and a centre half get rinsed by a league one side, an overrun midfield and a forward line that needs changing after half an hour? Just asking! They're not a League One side.
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Post by roylandstoke on Aug 14, 2023 21:51:32 GMT
I don’t think suggesting its time for the coaches to start working to improve the performance of the players could be called shitting the bed. I think suggesting they haven’t been working on that based on one bad performance is. No evidence of any improvement in any player in a year would suggest any work done hasn’t been effective. Im hopeful things will improve quickly.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 14, 2023 21:53:48 GMT
I think suggesting they haven’t been working on that based on one bad performance is. No evidence of any improvement in any player in a year would suggest any work done hasn’t been effective. Im hopeful things will improve quickly. We have a brand new team, which players specifically are you referring to?
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Post by roylandstoke on Aug 14, 2023 21:58:27 GMT
All of them, and the players who were here last season too.
Have you seen any signs of any improvements in any individual or team performance since last August? I haven’t.
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Post by blackpoolred on Aug 14, 2023 22:03:44 GMT
This is how I thought we would play from the start: disjointed and all over the place for a while until the players started getting up-to-speed with each other.
We can't expect miracles, masses of changes again all over the place and yet another ground zero as we change tack for the umpteenth time - also don't think we played as woeful as some made out.
However, the DNA of the team does not looked to have changed much - manager described it as rabbit in the headlights, which was a fair assessment at times - so where is this new mentality we were promised.
We still cant defend a basic cross because we have no players who are good in the air - not sure how long that is going to go on for before somebody at the club realises.
Take time to see if the new lot are up to much - need defenders, as priority, in this window - in every position or else once again it could be another long season. Other positions also, but you have to build from the back
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Post by musik on Aug 14, 2023 22:08:57 GMT
Take time to see if the new lot are up to much - need defenders, as priority, in this window - in every position or else once again it could be another long season. Other positions also, but you have to build from the back I think they are satisfied by now. No more players until the next window.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 14, 2023 22:09:51 GMT
All of them, and the players who were here last season too. Have you seen any signs of any improvements in any individual or team performance since last August? I haven’t. What do you mean, ‘all of them’, eight of Saturday’s starting XI weren’t here last season? When are we supposed to have seen these improvements? Between Ferencvaros’ big game against Ujpest and Saturday? Between Maritimo’s big relegation six pointers and Saturday? I’d say the Rotherham game was an improved team performance compared with the dross we saw at home against similar opposition last season.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2023 22:12:39 GMT
This is how I thought we would play from the start: disjointed and all over the place for a while until the players started getting up-to-speed with each other. We can't expect miracles, masses of changes again all over the place and yet another ground zero as we change tack for the umpteenth time - also don't think we played as woeful as some made out. However, the DNA of the team does not looked to have changed much - manager described it as rabbit in the headlights, which was a fair assessment at times - so where is this new mentality we were promised. We still cant defend a basic cross because we have no players who are good in the air - not sure how long that is going to go on for before somebody at the club realises. Take time to see if the new lot are up to much - need defenders, as priority, in this window - in every position or else once again it could be another long season. Other positions also, but you have to build from the back McNally was supposed to have been exceptional in the air last season.
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Post by roylandstoke on Aug 15, 2023 8:17:47 GMT
All of them, and the players who were here last season too. Have you seen any signs of any improvements in any individual or team performance since last August? I haven’t. What do you mean, ‘all of them’, eight of Saturday’s starting XI weren’t here last season? When are we supposed to have seen these improvements? Between Ferencvaros’ big game against Ujpest and Saturday? Between Maritimo’s big relegation six pointers and Saturday? I’d say the Rotherham game was an improved team performance compared with the dross we saw at home against similar opposition last season. In the year (40+ games) of the current manager’s tenure I have not seen any improvement in individual or team performances. You asked “which players “ hadn’t shown improvement? I replied all of them; meaning none of the players used in that time at Stoke have improved in my opinion. I am commenting purely on the player’s performances at Stoke under our manager and his coaching. At other clubs in recent times new managers have been able to bring big improvements by working effectively with existing squads that others considered to be inadequate. Our manager was unable to do this with a squad most outside of Stoke saw as at least top 10 quality. Now he has his own squad. I think the time frame I stated earlier is reasonable for him to achieve some improvement.
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Post by roylandstoke on Aug 15, 2023 8:25:10 GMT
All of them, and the players who were here last season too. Have you seen any signs of any improvements in any individual or team performance since last August? I haven’t. What do you mean, ‘all of them’, eight of Saturday’s starting XI weren’t here last season? When are we supposed to have seen these improvements? Between Ferencvaros’ big game against Ujpest and Saturday? Between Maritimo’s big relegation six pointers and Saturday? I’d say the Rotherham game was an improved team performance compared with the dross we saw at home against similar opposition last season. Half the outfield starters were coached by our manager for at least half of last season. Wilmot, Laurent and Brown we’re here when he arrived. He has been working with Pearson and Hoever at Stoke since January.
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Post by Do it for dobing on Aug 15, 2023 9:27:58 GMT
Brown had gone and we missed him
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