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Post by raythesailor on Jun 28, 2023 17:12:32 GMT
Well what a complete mess. This private company has acquired a multi billion pound debt in excess of 80 percent of its market value !!! Now with increased interest rates, urgent need of investment, which should have been made decades ago to maintain the system , instead of paying out dividends what is going to happen ?
It looks like WE the Taxpayers are going to have bail out the wealthy South East.
There really does need to be some serious consideration to be given to the catch phrase " Leveling Up"
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 28, 2023 17:14:57 GMT
Thatcherism in all it’s glory……..
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 28, 2023 17:59:26 GMT
Well what a complete mess. This private company has acquired a multi billion pound debt in excess of 80 percent of its market value !!! Now with increased interest rates, urgent need of investment, which should have been made decades ago to maintain the system , instead of paying out dividends what is going to happen ? It looks like WE the Taxpayers are going to have bail out the wealthy South East. There really does need to be some serious consideration to be given to the catch phrase " Leveling Up" I wouldn't be surprised if we all end up bailing them out with our taxes. Given that the CEOs have had double digit pay rises, huge bonuses, Thames has the worst water pollution and fines record, it's borderline criminal. Water should be in public hands. It should be the first industry to be renationalised, energy second.
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Jun 28, 2023 20:13:43 GMT
If they are declared bankrupt are the shares worthless? No need to bail it out just do as all other unscrupulous companies do in this situation wait until the administrators are called in and pay out 5p in the £ to the top 10%. It can then be put back into Public ownership without costing the taxpayer billions. I'm not saying it will be run any better but it would have to be run by 5 year olds to be any worse. Gouranga.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 28, 2023 23:16:18 GMT
Kind of feels like there is limited chance of a Tory government taking it over.
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Post by wannabee on Jun 29, 2023 0:08:18 GMT
If they are declared bankrupt are the shares worthless? No need to bail it out just do as all other unscrupulous companies do in this situation wait until the administrators are called in and pay out 5p in the £ to the top 10%. It can then be put back into Public ownership without costing the taxpayer billions. I'm not saying it will be run any better but it would have to be run by 5 year olds to be any worse. Gouranga. Which is exactly what I said earlier Albert(on a different thread) these Bastards need to go into liquidation due to insolvency and walk away. Veritas asked a very good question earlier as to who owns the debt, I don't know., but these are the ones who should get burned, or specifically the shareholders.of debt Collectively the Water Utility Companies have accumulated £60Bn of Debt while at the same time paying out £76Bn in Dividends I can confidently predict that the Government like they did with the Bondholders in 2008 will protect the Banks at the expense of the Taxpayers If you're too big to fail your Golden, if your mortgage payments (I don't have one) are so big you can't pay, fuck you. Capitalism is a system that is designed to distribute wealth to the greedy, but when factors go against its the "little people " that are expected to pay for the Bailout
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Post by wannabee on Jun 29, 2023 0:11:56 GMT
Kind of feels like there is limited chance of a Tory government taking it over. They have no option but to sort out the mess Thatcher created or leave the population of London without Water A Labour Government although more ideologically inclined would also have no other choice
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Post by Northy on Jun 29, 2023 6:50:43 GMT
The ex CEO of them walked away a couple of days ago after 2 1/2 years in charge, no doubt she is quite comfortable from her £1.6m a year salary, and will get another similar position with a similar salary. The system is fooked and we need a riot of poll tax proportions, but people aren't bothered these days, too busy gorging on junk food, taking selfies or whatever for tiktok, having their fake tan and nails done then walking their 'fur fookin babies' to pay attention what is going on with these corrupt bastards.
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Post by werrington on Jun 29, 2023 7:44:13 GMT
Well what a complete mess. This private company has acquired a multi billion pound debt in excess of 80 percent of its market value !!! Now with increased interest rates, urgent need of investment, which should have been made decades ago to maintain the system , instead of paying out dividends what is going to happen ? It looks like WE the Taxpayers are going to have bail out the wealthy South East. There really does need to be some serious consideration to be given to the catch phrase " Leveling Up" It’s amazing how those who are all over the strike threads where they slaughter normal working people who only want a decent wage steer clear of these threads that see CEOs and foreign shareholders etc milk it dry yet they’ve nothing to add to it and the fact it costs the tax payer billions
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 29, 2023 7:52:43 GMT
Well what a complete mess. This private company has acquired a multi billion pound debt in excess of 80 percent of its market value !!! Now with increased interest rates, urgent need of investment, which should have been made decades ago to maintain the system , instead of paying out dividends what is going to happen ? It looks like WE the Taxpayers are going to have bail out the wealthy South East. There really does need to be some serious consideration to be given to the catch phrase " Leveling Up" It’s amazing how those who are all over the strike threads where they slaughter normal working people who only want a decent wage steer clear of these threads that see CEOs and foreign shareholders etc milk it dry yet they’ve nothing to add to it and the fact it costs the tax payer billions Masochists mate I swear, decades of divide and conquer in the media and by politicians have clearly worked...........
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 29, 2023 10:27:57 GMT
Quite how a major company, with many major corporate investors, came to the conclusion that it was a good idea to borrow heavily (at rates tied to the Bank of England base rate as it fluctuated) to pay high dividends to those investors, is mind boggling.
Quite how the regulator allowed this to happen whilst the same company was failing to spend the money it needed to spend to stay within the law on discharge of untreated sewage into rivers and to reduce its water leakage to, or below, the industry average, is even more mind boggling.
Whatever measures are taken to ensure that Thames customers continue to get their water supply and their sewage collected, there is an obvious need to tear up the current system in place to regulate the water industry and replace it with one that is fit for purpose. Hopefully this will also mean sacking and replacing the senior staff at the top of the regulating body as they have clearly not even tried to do the job they were paid to do.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 29, 2023 10:45:22 GMT
Kind of feels like there is limited chance of a Tory government taking it over. They have no option but to sort out the mess Thatcher created or leave the population of London without Water A Labour Government although more ideologically inclined would also have no other choice They could bail them out without actually taking back ownership though, which would be what I expect their first thought is.
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Post by wannabee on Jun 29, 2023 11:02:33 GMT
They have no option but to sort out the mess Thatcher created or leave the population of London without Water A Labour Government although more ideologically inclined would also have no other choice They could bail them out without actually taking back ownership though, which would be what I expect their first thought is. That is exactly what I fear and have said previously. It just kicks the can down the road
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 29, 2023 12:24:59 GMT
Well what a complete mess. This private company has acquired a multi billion pound debt in excess of 80 percent of its market value !!! Now with increased interest rates, urgent need of investment, which should have been made decades ago to maintain the system , instead of paying out dividends what is going to happen ? It looks like WE the Taxpayers are going to have bail out the wealthy South East. There really does need to be some serious consideration to be given to the catch phrase " Leveling Up" It’s amazing how those who are all over the strike threads where they slaughter normal working people who only want a decent wage steer clear of these threads that see CEOs and foreign shareholders etc milk it dry yet they’ve nothing to add to it and the fact it costs the tax payer billions Some folk at the bottom love nothing more than knowing their place and having someone, preferably a bit worse off, to despise.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 29, 2023 12:30:30 GMT
They could bail them out without actually taking back ownership though, which would be what I expect their first thought is. That is exactly what I fear and have said previously. It just kicks the can down the road Wouldn’t shock me if there was a deliberate bit of dealing to do this while Tory’s were still in power, as Labour would (hopefully) aim to more aggressively pursue taking it back.
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Post by redstriper on Jun 29, 2023 14:15:44 GMT
There's a few other nuances to chuck into this debacle.
Firstly london super sewer - the cost is currently 4.5b (no doubt it'll overrun by a distance) - thames water customers being levied to pay for it, but nowhere near all of it.
Secondly nearly 20% of thames water is owned by the UK university lecturers pension fund.
The folly of putting our water supplies into the hands of foreign investors should be blatantly obvious and anybody defending it is being disingenuous at best. Granted governments are shit at running things, but the answer was for them to get better, not wipe away its debts and sell it off, then allow private investors to bleed it dry.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Jun 29, 2023 20:18:04 GMT
I remember the sell-off. The Tories saying it was necessary because the ageing infrastructure needed investment , those adverts pushing people to register to become 'H2owners' (even though they owned it already). There would be cleaner rivers , new reservoirs, fewer leaks.
Would there fuck. It was obvious back then that it was just the Tories doing what they always do. Now some of those seduced by the promise of a quick buck through the shares offer will be losing that many times over paying the debt.
Have the Tories learned the lesson of a series of failed privatisations? Not a bit of it. Look at the recent spoutings from Mark Harper about the railways. Not satisfied with the failed Tory rail privatisation in the '90's , he wants to repeat the mistakes in some ideological nonsense.
Schools and hospitals in danger of collapse , shit in the rivers and seas, claimed as successes by a government criminally unfit for office.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 29, 2023 20:31:00 GMT
I remember the sell-off. The Tories saying it was necessary because the ageing infrastructure needed investment , those adverts pushing people to register to become 'H2owners' (even though they owned it already). There would be cleaner rivers , new reservoirs, fewer leaks. Would there fuck. It was obvious back then that it was just the Tories doing what they always do. Now some of those seduced by the promise of a quick buck through the shares offer will be losing that many times over paying the debt. Have the Tories learned the lesson of a series of failed privatisations? Not a bit of it. Look at the recent spoutings from Mark Harper about the railways. Not satisfied with the failed Tory rail privatisation in the '90's , he wants to repeat the mistakes in some ideological nonsense. Schools and hospitals in danger of collapse , shit in the rivers and seas, claimed as successes by a government criminally unfit for office. The Tories at the the time, literally said that the benefit of privatisation would mean that the public would never have to pay for any infrastructure again. They outright lied and fucked us up the arse (yet again).
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 29, 2023 20:40:00 GMT
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Post by ashleyscfc on Jun 30, 2023 0:15:50 GMT
They have blue chip ceo pay running basically a state institution.
We pay our bills and that’s propping up foreign owners and foreign pension funds.
It’s a utility for a reason. It’s insanity, whatever you think of nationalisation, I’d rather us get fucked over and be in control/keep the money.
Most countries aren’t daft enough to do this or let other countries own their infrastructure. When was the last time you saw British rail (DB), Royal Mail (DHL), British Gas (EDF) in foreign countries like they are equivalents are here?
Now we’ve got to bail this shithouse out. Let them go under and nationalise it for a penny to teach them a lesson.
How on earth you fuck up a business where your customers have to pay is beyond me.
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Post by wannabee on Jun 30, 2023 0:27:30 GMT
They have blue chip ceo pay running basically a state institution. We pay our bills and that’s propping up foreign owners and foreign pension funds. It’s a utility for a reason. It’s insanity, whatever you think of nationalisation, I’d rather us get fucked over and be in control/keep the money. Most countries aren’t daft enough to do this or let other countries own their infrastructure. When was the last time you saw British rail (DB), Royal Mail (DHL), British Gas (EDF) in foreign countries like they are equivalents are here? Now we’ve got to bail this shithouse out. Let them go under and nationalise it for a penny to teach them a lesson. How on earth you fuck up a business where your customers have to pay is beyond me. Well said Ash and I'm not discriminating on Parties, but the British Public has been too placid in accepting the Bullshit and Incompetence being doled out Look at France as a alternative if something unpopular happens like Pension Age increases or a Cop shoots an innocent Youth Dead, they take to the Streets I'm not advocating it, but tut tutting or a strongly worded letter to The Times ain't cutting it either.
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Post by andystokey on Jun 30, 2023 7:17:44 GMT
If they are declared bankrupt are the shares worthless? No need to bail it out just do as all other unscrupulous companies do in this situation wait until the administrators are called in and pay out 5p in the £ to the top 10%. It can then be put back into Public ownership without costing the taxpayer billions. I'm not saying it will be run any better but it would have to be run by 5 year olds to be any worse. Gouranga. Which is exactly what I said earlier Albert(on a different thread) these Bastards need to go into liquidation due to insolvency and walk away. Veritas asked a very good question earlier as to who owns the debt, I don't know., but these are the ones who should get burned, or specifically the shareholders.of debt Collectively the Water Utility Companies have accumulated £60Bn of Debt while at the same time paying out £76Bn in Dividends I can confidently predict that the Government like they did with the Bondholders in 2008 will protect the Banks at the expense of the Taxpayers If you're too big to fail your Golden, if your mortgage payments (I don't have one) are so big you can't pay, fuck you. Capitalism is a system that is designed to distribute wealth to the greedy, but when factors go against its the "little people " that are expected to pay for the Bailout The complex ownership structures of shell companies is designed to launder the money. Before anyone feels sorry for these Thames shareholders who turned borrowing into dividends and are now being asked to cough up. Shareholders include companies owned by the governments of Kuwait, Abu Dhabi and China. The Chines wealth fund is worth £1trillion and Abu Dhabi investments has global investments worth £850billion.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jun 30, 2023 8:28:04 GMT
Obligatory twitter video
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Post by wannabee on Jun 30, 2023 9:19:31 GMT
Which is exactly what I said earlier Albert(on a different thread) these Bastards need to go into liquidation due to insolvency and walk away. Veritas asked a very good question earlier as to who owns the debt, I don't know., but these are the ones who should get burned, or specifically the shareholders.of debt Collectively the Water Utility Companies have accumulated £60Bn of Debt while at the same time paying out £76Bn in Dividends I can confidently predict that the Government like they did with the Bondholders in 2008 will protect the Banks at the expense of the Taxpayers If you're too big to fail your Golden, if your mortgage payments (I don't have one) are so big you can't pay, fuck you. Capitalism is a system that is designed to distribute wealth to the greedy, but when factors go against its the "little people " that are expected to pay for the Bailout The complex ownership structures of shell companies is designed to launder the money. Before anyone feels sorry for these Thames shareholders who turned borrowing into dividends and are now being asked to cough up. Shareholders include companies owned by the governments of Kuwait, Abu Dhabi and China. The Chines wealth fund is worth £1trillion and Abu Dhabi investments has global investments worth £850billion. Of course it is but the structure of Kemble Holdings, the Holding Company of Thames Water, is not so opaque that it could not be understood by the Regulator Ofwat or even a disinterested Minister The current source of angst of the current Thames Water Shareholders is a requirement to borrow (God forbid they would invest equity) £10Bn over 7 years to invest in much needed infrastructure repair, this amount is almost certainly not going to be enough. This could prove difficult given the state of their Balance Sheet and expensive given current interest rates and without external guarantees They should be told under the obligations of their licence to pony up or fuck off.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jul 1, 2023 13:28:37 GMT
Well, a Labour Shadow Minister was just on Sky saying that they don’t want to put it back into the public sector. Instead, they just want it better regulated.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 1, 2023 14:28:05 GMT
Well, a Labour Shadow Minister was just on Sky saying that they don’t want to put it back into the public sector. Instead, they just want it better regulated. Labour's stance is awful on this and many other issues, let's be blunt about it.......
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Post by cvillestokie on Jul 1, 2023 16:49:34 GMT
Well, a Labour Shadow Minister was just on Sky saying that they don’t want to put it back into the public sector. Instead, they just want it better regulated. Labour's stance is awful on this and many other issues, let's be blunt about it....... They are a terribly weak party. With 13 years of Tory rule, you’d think that they would have some backbone.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jul 1, 2023 16:51:19 GMT
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jul 1, 2023 19:01:54 GMT
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Post by Dutchpeter on Jul 1, 2023 21:06:18 GMT
Now we’re out of the EU won’t it be easier to nationalise a utility like this? Over to you Labour Party.
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